This topic has been bothering me for the past few weeks and over the past 18 months it's a topic I've felt very strongly about. Moreover, it's quite a mixture of different views and opinions on things and I figured that this place was the best place to talk about it.

 

 

I can't really group myself into a political party just yet because I'm very moderate on certain things. Through inspection of the left wing from the perspective of right wing websites, youtube personalities, articles etc and vice versa I think there is bad and good on both sides. However, no party is perfect so that's not an excuse to not join either of them, I do want to make a decision.

 

The main thing I've wanted to get off of my chest is to do with the religion of Islam. Very often you'll hear Islam being brought up in debates these days by people on the right and people on the left. The views that some people on the right share about Islam can be a little bit 'extreme' whilst some on the left share views that are far too lenient. 

 

It's strange because you've got people like Paul Watson who accuse a lot of mainstream western media for having a liberal bias whilst you've also got people belonging to the left (I can't really think of any leftist youtubers off of the top of my head) who say the mainstream media can be quite racist or insensitive. For example, some on the left will say that mainstream media will never label a Caucasian male as a terrorist if that person does commit an act that they deem to be an act of terrorism. For example-Dylan Roof, some on the left say that the media never called him a terrorist.

 

On the other hand, people like Paul Watson, Milo Yiannopolius (Who I will discuss later on) bring up the notion that mainstream media and politicians refuse to label Islamic terrorists as terrorists because they don't want to offend people or sound like xenophobes.

 

 

Are these people really looking at the same news sites? I doubt it. The mainstream media in the Western world has a weird way of pitting people against each other, one network may contain some sort of 'liberal' bias and the other will contain a 'right wing' bias. Two people on the internet will bicker about this and say 'mainstream media is doing this', "no it's actually doing this can't you see?". I honestly think the media is doing a great job of dividing and conquering with these types of tactics.

 

There is a strange fact out there that 6 corporations own 90% of the media, I'm not sure if this is completely accurate but if you google it, there are quite a few websites who discuss this. Take it however you please.

 

 

 

 

 

Is it wrong to criticise on an ideology? No, it's not. As long as you do it respectfully and sensibly, with the power of free speech you have every right to criticise an ideology. People of that ideology have no right to label you as a xenophobe or a racist either-in fact I'm sure that some people who practice that religion/ideology  may agree with you on certain things. In 2016 I feel like we can't do this with Islam for fear of being called a racist or a xenophobe. When there are atrocities being committed in the name of an ideology-we can't just keep sweeping it under the rug and just pretend it will all be okay. On the contrary-can we attack Muslims for it and be prejudice? Of course not because that's completely wrong.

 

That's where I feel Milo Yiannopolous is wrong. Milo is an openly homosexual, alt right member and editor of Breitbart-an alt right magazine and a pretty popular one. 

 

Throughout his many videos on Islam he will often bring up some key facts. If you want to watch the full video go ahead, else just skip to 3:19 where he lists his 'facts'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JciVfnR2lis&t=241s

 

He says '100% of Muslims, polled by Gall (or something sounding like that), 1000 Muslims, 100% believe that homosexuality is an unacceptable lifestyle choice"

 

Alright, now go here, once again you can watch the video or just skip to 6:50.

 

Here's where the scare tactics come in. If you listened he said "100% of Muslims according to a gallop poll three years ago".

 

Can you see the deception? In the first video he said 100% out of 1000, now he is just saying 100% of Muslims in the 2nd video and it is pretty clear he is using the same statistic since he said from the Gallop poll. Absolute scare tactics to incite fear and hatred. Yes you can argue that people shouldn't believe it-but never question the stupidity of human beings. Milo will criticise the left for lying and being manipulative but then do the same thing here. 

His videos contain good points on some things but then he'll drag himself through the mud by making generalisations. 

 

Here is what he was talking about

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

 

And what the guardian only mention half way through the article (after everyone stops reading) is that 

 

ICM conducted face-to-face, at-home interviews with a representative sample of 1,000 Muslims across the UK between 25 April and 31 May 2015. A control sample of 1,008 people representative of the country as a whole were interviewed over the phone to provide a comparison.

 

The percentage was out of 1008 people. However it is still a problem that needs to be resolved in some way or another. 

 

 

He is entitled to his own opinions but I disagree with his generalisations. This is where I feel some on the right or alt right can go wrong, they get by by mocking the faith and saying 'kick them all out!' or resorting to hatred. This is one of many examples of ignorance.

 

 

Tommy Robinson is one of the most interesting right wing activists I've come across. Born in England he founded EDL aka the English Defence League which is very far right. He has now left the movement for a number of reasons which you can read about here. He says this 

Mr Robinson said it was still his aim to "counter Islamist ideology", although "not with violence but with better, democratic ideas".

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24442953

 

 

Now allow me to talk about certain views that some on the left hold.

 

Are people of colour and people of Islamic faith completely immune to commiting crimes and being racist? Sweden is now the rape capital of Europe because the open border policy is ridiculous. This is mainly due to the large influx of migrants that they've taken in in the name of 'freedom' and 'equality' for all. I am on the side of refugees but I side with the ones who wish to integrate with the west, the ones who want to work hard and build a better life for themselves. Not the ones who are shooting up halls in Germany or doing things like this

 

 

There is a lot worse that you can research for yourself. The rotherham scandal in the UK is a big one. Once again, there is nothing wrong with controlled immigration-there is something wrong with mass uncontrolled immigration. People from Africa are using the excuse that they are Syrian refugees and sneaking into the west, then committing horrible crimes. Is there anything racist about wanting to know who is coming into your country? No, there is something racist about not letting people in because of their religion.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-and-denmark-have-highest-number-of-sexual-assaults-in-europe-a6800901.html

 

 

From now on when I say people on the left I only mean the people who share those views, it's tedious to say 'some' in every sentence.

 

 

Certain people on the left will preach freedom and equality for people of all races-except white people. White people are racist, need to accept their privileges and are all racist according to leftists. White people owe you things don't they? Certain black people have this notion that white folks owe them something and everytime they don't get what they want it's usually the white man's fault.  Everytime something doesn't go our way we'll play the victim card. It's not just black people,Indian folk and Oriental people sometimes do it to and it's all just as wrong. 

 

More white people were killed by cops this year than blacks, but BLM won't stick up for them. What about the cops who got killed in Dallas over nothing (I think that crime wasn't by BLM but what does it matter)?   If you want to, google 'BLM racist tweets' and see what comes up in the name of #blacklivesmatter because it certainly isn't equality for all, but where is the coverage of such racism? 

 

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/5211/us-citizens-killed-by-police-2016/

 

 

 

 

I would go on about SJWS and their safe spaces but exposing them is just too easy now. You already know about their 'safe spaces' and all that nonsense.

 

What about these? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAeB_yl2E90

 

 

I could go on and on but I've been writing this for an hour. I just wanted to talk about all of these things. What beliefs you hold and what colour you are don't bother me so take this how you please. I made this to showcase the good, the bad and everything in between. I'll happily edit the post with more if I feel it's needed. I'm not attacking anyone of any race or political party-there is good and bad everywhere and until we all realise that we're screwed. The right say the left is too soft, the left say the right is too harsh. They both attack each other over stupid things whilst the higher ups laugh at us all. Both have great ideas but both have bad ideas.

Edited November 19, 20168 yr by Barry Bacon Allen

Since I am not an American citizen or an American at all , I don't have a lot to say about this . But some points you made really caught my attention . I currently live in Greece . Greece has been described as the "passage" for all of the immigrants that are now filling up central Europe countries . It certainly bugged me and every single of the greek people but ,yet, still , some of them helped the immigrants get some food , water and get on with their journeys . Until it was time to get on with their journeys though , some of them destroyed lots of properties because , well, the borders were not opening up . Lots of Muslims (Isis ones included) took advantage of that passage which resulted in all of those tragedies in France and a lot of other European countries . The fact that Greece's government never checked a single of those immigrants disgusts me . Some other people believe the solution is to drown all of those poor immigrants into the sea which also disgusts me . At the state that Greece is today , I don't think this whole "free immigration" thingy can be controlled . Whenever I openly say that immigration is a real problem that needs to be dealt with immidiately , a lot of people accuse me of being racist(Donald Trump jokes included) . I have to agree with you though .There's nothing racist about wanting to know who comes in your country.

Yiannopoulos is right about one thing : Muslims do not accept homosexuality . I know this for a fact : in Egypt whoever openly admits that they are homosexual , they have their hand cut off . One of my friends ,a really open-minded man, is egyptian and , even if he does not agree with it ,he says that it's part of their religion and part of their law . Now I know those two shouldn't be confused but the case of Isis certainly proves that law and religion do get mixed up a lot .

Edited November 18, 20168 yr by Nick Sideris

Since I am not an American citizen or an American at all , I don't have a lot to say about this . But some points you made really caught my attention . I currently live in Greece . Greece has been described as the "passage" for all of the immigrants that are now filling up central Europe countries . It certainly bugged me and every single of the greek people but ,yet, still , some of them helped the immigrants get some food , water and get on with their journeys . Until it was time to get on with their journeys though , some of them destroyed lots of properties because , well, the borders were not opening up . Lots of Muslims (Isis ones included) took advantage of that passage which resulted in all of those tragedies in France and a lot of other European countries . The fact that Greece's government never checked a single of those immigrants disgusts me . Some other people believe the solution is to drown all of those poor immigrants into the sea which also disgusts me . At the state that Greece is today , I don't think this whole "free immigration" thingy can be controlled . Whenever I openly say that immigration is a real problem that needs to be dealt with immidiately , a lot of people accuse me of being racist(Donald Trump jokes included) . I have to agree with you though .There's nothing racist about wanting to know who comes in your country.

Yiannopoulos is right about one thing : Muslims do not accept homosexuality . I know this for a fact : in Egypt whoever openly admits that they are homosexual , they have their hand cut off . One of my friends ,a really open-minded man, is egyptian and , even if he does not agree with it ,he says that it's part of their religion and part of their law . Now I know those two shouldn't be confused but the case of Isis certainly proves that law and religion do get mixed up a lot .

I'm not an American citizen either. Milo, Paul Watson, Tommie Robinson and the EDL are all British. A lot of the stuff I brought up happens in Britain too. Milo has actually moved to the US because he's scared of being in the UK.

 

Anyhow, I didn't have a chance to discuss Saudi Arabia which is arguably one of the most horrendous places on earth. Run by an Islamic government who support beheading gay people for being gay, stoning women to death for not obeying their husbands or not doing as they are told, killing anyone who speaks out against them and pretty much everything else under the sun. When some left wave feminists discuss oppression they never bring up this country but would rather complain about the pettiest things in their own country. The law that Saudis follow is one that was written thousands of years ago and therefore represents a country thousands of years in the past. We wanted time travel and that's what we get, a modern day idea of how hellish the Middle East was and still is. The West has abandoned those ideals and moved on but Saudi is still stuck in an infinite time loop.

I'm not an American citizen either. Milo, Paul Watson, Tommie Robinson and the EDL are all British. A lot of the stuff I brought up happens in Britain too. Milo has actually moved to the US because he's scared of being in the UK.

 

Anyhow, I didn't have a chance to discuss Saudi Arabia which is arguably one of the most horrendous places on earth. Run by an Islamic government who support beheading gay people for being gay, stoning women to death for not obeying their husbands or not doing as they are told, killing anyone who speaks out against them and pretty much everything else under the sun. When some left wave feminists discuss oppression they never bring up this country but would rather complain about the pettiest things in their own country. The law that Saudis follow is one that was written thousands of years ago and therefore represents a country thousands of years in the past. We wanted time travel and that's what we get, a modern day idea of how hellish the Middle East was and still is. The West has abandoned those ideals and moved on but Saudi is still stuck in an infinite time loop.

Unfortunately for the whole world , they've been given the means to impose those ideals to all the other countries . Twisted ideals that do not really exist but still they have the means to impose them .

Edited November 18, 20168 yr by Nick Sideris

Yiannopoulos is right about one thing : Muslims do not accept homosexuality . I know this for a fact : in Egypt whoever openly admits that they are homosexual , they have their hand cut off . One of my friends ,a really open-minded man, is egyptian and , even if he does not agree with it ,he says that it's part of their religion and part of their law.

 

Core religions forbids homosexuality. Ask Christianity and Judaism, they are vehemently just as against homosexuality as Muslims are.

Edited November 18, 20168 yr by Guest

Core religions forbids homosexuality. Ask Christianity and Judaism, they are vehemently just as against homosexuality as Muslims are.

Of course . I am a Christian myself . But ,let's be honest here , in every single religion , 99% of the people don't follow their religions' ideals which is bad but you can blame the civilization's evolution for that . But let's not get into that 'cause I am gonna sleep right on my laptop .

Edited November 18, 20168 yr by Nick Sideris

Core religions forbids homosexuality. Ask Christianity and Judaism, they are vehemently just as against homosexuality as Muslims are.

The way people define a religion is quite odd. Can a religion be defined as the system of beliefs or should the religion be defined by the people who practice it? Although the books may all be against homosexuality, what does that matter if the people who are practicing it are not?

Well I have a few points to add:

 

1.) Both right and left wing media have shown obvious bias in "reporting" of the truth. You can't trust most media bc it's main job is propaganda instead of reporting the truth the way it's originally intended to do.

 

2.) I think most sane, intelligent, and logical people can agree with issues/platforms from both sides of the fence and can also criticize platforms from both sides of the fence. But you also have hardliners that fall into the far extreme side of either party and this is dangerous bc they end up following the path of mindless sheople who will lead each other over a cliff like lemmings.

 

3.) We have some people on the left who tend to label all white people and cops as racist despite the fact that they will turn around and preach that we should not generalize all muslims, illegals, black people etc etc.( Nevermind cops are all kinds of races) As for slavery practically every race has enslaved and been enslaved throughout the world.( including white people). In America, only 1.4 % of white people owned slaves at the height of slavery. 28% of freed black people owned slaves during that time too. Yet every white american is responsible for the actions of a few. The hypocrisy is unreal. Some of the left treat christians, whites, and cops as Monoliths while preaching against that concept when it comes to others. If you hate or discriminate against anyone bc of the color of their skin you are a racist. This goes for anyone and any race. We should judge peoples character as individuals and not based on skin color, sexual orientation, or religion.

 

4.) Some of the right like to control others rights ( like gay marriage and abortion) while the left will claim they are tolerant and want equal rights for everyone while stepping all over other people's rights who dare disagree with them. They are only tolerant if you agree with everything they say.

 

5.) Some of the left criticize christians for being against homosexuality while supporting Islam which also is against homosexuality and takes violent actions against them as punishment. They knock the right for being sexist and marginalizing towards women while supporting islam which is not exactly known for women's equality and rights in numerous countries. If you are gonna criticize one religion for something please be consistent in your "judginess" with others lolz

 

6.) The liberal protesters preach about peace, love, and nonviolence while being violent and hateful towards those who disagree. During the election they were attending Trump rallies causing violence and chaos all the while saying the trump supporters were hateful and violent. Has there been hateful trump supporters? Sure. But there were also hateful Hillary supporters.

 

7.) Some Liberals calling all trump supporters racist and bigots are hypocritical as firetruck bc most supporters were not and are just tired of the direction our country has taken and want change. They did not want to put a criminal and liar into office.  Are there racists? Yes. Just not everyone. (or everyone in one race.) It's easy to criticize Trump, ( some of it well deserved) but we must all be intellectually honest in our criticisms of Hillary Clinton as well. A lot of which liberals ignored. They were too busy slandering half the country calling everyone bigots and racists because they did not support Hillary. Btw where were all the protesters when Hillary won the democratic ticket by screwing over Bernie? ( proven fact)

 

8.) As for immigration- yes we do indeed need to protect our borders. It's not racist to do so and most other countries do so as well. But if America does, it's racist or xenophobic? Ridiculous. ISIS has bragged about using the refugee situation to sneak in terrorists and sleeper cells. We are suppose to ignore this? Btw, most americans are not against immigration but ILLEGAL immigration. If you want to come here and work to build a better future and pay taxes by all means come over. But see that's not everyone unfortunately.

 

9.) The refugee problem is complicated. We need to help those who need our help, but we also need to be careful who we let in. For example, in the San Bernadino shooting, the wife had used false info to gain entry into the country and if she had been vetted properly they would've saw her info was false. It took them like 5 minutes to after the shooting was all said and done. Which makes me really question how much vetting we actually do to have such a huge failure.

We also have many refugees running away from these very bad guys aka terrorists we detest so much. Their lives matter too and yes we should help them. It's the right thing to do. Question is, how do we help them without letting terrorists in hiding among them? There is no easy answer to this.

Okay, I know I might not sound on topic, but I just want you to know is that you have to stay strong about this. *hugs you tightly*

Okay, I know I might not sound on topic, but I just want you to know is that you have to stay strong about this. *hugs you tightly*

Thanks I'll try my best!

 

Well I have a few points to add:

 

1.) Both right and left wing media have shown obvious bias in "reporting" of the truth. You can't trust most media bc it's main job is propaganda instead of reporting the truth the way it's originally intended to do.

 

2.) I think most sane, intelligent, and logical people can agree with issues/platforms from both sides of the fence and can also criticize platforms from both sides of the fence. But you also have hardliners that fall into the far extreme side of either party and this is dangerous bc they end up following the path of mindless sheople who will lead each other over a cliff like lemmings.

 

3.) We have some people on the left who tend to label all white people and cops as racist despite the fact that they will turn around and preach that we should not generalize all muslims, illegals, black people etc etc.( Nevermind cops are all kinds of races) As for slavery practically every race has enslaved and been enslaved throughout the world.( including white people). In America, only 1.4 % of white people owned slaves at the height of slavery. 28% of freed black people owned slaves during that time too. Yet every white american is responsible for the actions of a few. The hypocrisy is unreal. Some of the left treat christians, whites, and cops as Monoliths while preaching against that concept when it comes to others. If you hate or discriminate against anyone bc of the color of their skin you are a racist. This goes for anyone and any race. We should judge peoples character as individuals and not based on skin color, sexual orientation, or religion.

 

4.) Some of the right like to control others rights ( like gay marriage and abortion) while the left will claim they are tolerant and want equal rights for everyone while stepping all over other people's rights who dare disagree with them. They are only tolerant if you agree with everything they say.

 

5.) Some of the left criticize christians for being against homosexuality while supporting Islam which also is against homosexuality and takes violent actions against them as punishment. They knock the right for being sexist and marginalizing towards women while supporting islam which is not exactly known for women's equality and rights in numerous countries.

 

6.) The liberal protesters preach about peace, love, and nonviolence while being violent and hateful towards those who disagree. During the election they were attending Trump rallies causing violence and chaos all the while saying the trump supporters were hateful and violent. Has there been hateful trump supporters? Sure. But there were also hateful Hillary supporters.

 

7.) Some Liberals calling all trump supporters racist and bigots are hypocritical as firetruck bc most supporters were not and are just tired of the direction our country has taken and want change. They did not want to put a criminal and liar into office.  Are there racists? Yes. Just not everyone. (or everyone in one race.) It's easy to criticize Trump, ( some of it well deserved) but we must all be intellectually honest in our criticisms of Hillary Clinton as well. A lot of which liberals ignored. They were too busy slandering half the country calling everyone bigots and racists because they did not support Hillary. Btw where were all the protesters when Hillary won the democratic ticket by screwing over Bernie? ( proven fact)

 

8.) As for immigration- yes we do indeed need to protect our borders. It's not racist to do so and most other countries do so as well. But if America does, it's racist or xenophobic? Ridiculous. ISIS has bragged about using the refugee situation to sneak in terrorists and sleeper cells. We are suppose to ignore this? Btw, most americans are not against immigration but ILLEGAL immigration. If you want to come here and work to build a better future and pay taxes by all means come over. But see that's not everyone unfortunately.

 

9.) The refugee problem is complicated. We need to help those who need our help, but we also need to be careful who we let in. For example, in the San Bernadino shooting, the wife had used false info to gain entry into the country and if she had been vetted properly they would've saw her info was false. It took them like 5 minutes to after the shooting was all said and done. Which makes me really question how much vetting we actually do to have such a huge failure.

We also have many refugees running away from these very bad guys aka terrorists we detest so much. Their lives matter too and yes we should help them. It's the right thing to do. Question is, how do we help them without letting terrorists in hiding among them? There is no easy answer to this.

 

5). True. 

 

Another problem here is that no one wants to say 'There is a problem with fundamentalist Islam' for fear of being labelled a racist. Those who do are silenced or end up taking it far aka people like Milo. No one wants to say 'Okay, maybe this ideology isn't as perfect as we thought'. Liberals think that -Muslims, black people, trans people and every other minority are peach perfect.

 

 

The right think that we should just be separate from Muslims because they all want to kill us and the left think we should hug ISIS and give them chocolate because it's not their fault they choose to commit genocide. Why can't there be a middle ground? 

 

As for 8). The media will paraphrase the videos of Trump talking about illegal immigration and use jump cuts, therefore if he said the sentence

 

'I call for a control on mass Muslim immigration into the United States. Some of these people are dangerous and could be terrorists'

 

The media will use jump cuts to turn the video to

'Muslims are terrorists, these people are dangerous'

*Eyeballs your topic and strokes my chin thoughtfully as I read.*

 

Hmm...

 

Mmhmm...

 

I see....

 

*Finishes reading and clasps hands together.*

 

Well human, before anything else, I say that you'd make quite a smart politician guy if you were to go into politics! You have a very straight and mature nature about you, and your threads interest me! No wonder Transcendent says you're a cool dude!

 

But anyways, onto the topic at hand, humans will always find some reason or another to pin blame or place fear and paranoia into the hearts and minds of the general populace whenever there's talk of Muslims, and all other kind of people! These things happen to pit humanity against each other, and as such, there's always this constant fear, this constant need to point at someone and spout out hate! Sure, it's a universal truth that not every single Muslim that exists is a terrorist, because that'd just be labeling one whole race as something they aren't! And that's pretty messed up!  But you see, the head honchos currently maintaining the world under their watchful eyes control the media, and they use anything to warp the media into their own perception, making people think one way about things while others think of it another way! This causes strife for humans, and as such, you see these crazy things happening here and there!

 

I've never really liked human politics. It's all a dirty game, and they use deceit, harsh words and who knows what other tactics to tip the scales in their favor! Granted, not all politicians are like this, but most of them are, you know what I'm saying?

 

But well, I'm really neutral when it comes to these things, because politics only spark bad things! But that's just my opinion, human! I've been through all the cosmos, and out of all the species out there, humanity's one tricky puzzle!  I mean, the Pines found a way to defeat me, and they're humans! 

 

But anyways, nice thread, Mr. Bacon! If you were ever to run for president, I might just consider voting for ya. You seem to have a mature mindset for this kind of stuff!

Edited November 19, 20168 yr by The Transcendent Key

The way people define a religion is quite odd. Can a religion be defined as the system of beliefs or should the religion be defined by the people who practice it? Although the books may all be against homosexuality, what does that matter if the people who are practicing it are not?

 

Religion is defined as a particular system of faith and worship. As for the people who follow the scriptures of their religion to the Nth degree, they do this so that they can prevent themselves from going to hell. Hell is the fear catalyst that aids Religion in being a secondary agent of social control. Quintessentially speaking, people of Religion see this world as more of a trail run as opposed to "living life". Their "real life" is once they pass away, ironically, for atheists, that's the end of a person's life because science has yet to discover what happens to the human life-force after a person is dead.

Edited November 19, 20168 yr by Guest