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gameaddict12345

[RANT] The KH community and its toxicity

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KH Ux. That's my only complaint and the only real "issue" in the KH series to me .It's probably the only subject that if anybody wanted to touch on with me , I'd get pretty toxic .

 

I honestly don't really care about the toxic fans .They are impatient , that's all . Every single KH fan has been waiting for KH 3. Some are patient but some others are not .That's the only conflict here .

 

I'm also gonna side myself with those who don't care about quality (like 1.5 and 2.5 Remixes , they really don't make any difference to me) but crave for good storylines that a gaming fan can follow using simple steps and having the basic brain functionality,basic graphics and exciting gameplay . KH , in my opinion, has offered all three of those . I'm not a person that asks for much anyway . And I know that there are a lot of people out there that would agree with me .And even if they don't,I'm not gonna go on Twitter and complain about it .

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To add on to the complaints about the speedrunning community, I think it's more that people complain about the speedrunners themselves due to their critical and sceptical behaviour towards the games rather than the hobby.

 

For example, once I got a comment on YouTube saying "Why do you like a KH hater like BB?". I just told them off and went on to say that BB doesn't hate the game and that if they watched his BBS Turning Point video they would know that he just doesn't agree with what KH has become. Speedrunners don't hate the games they speedrun, how does that even make sense? xD

 

Overall just a bunch of butthurt fanboys/girls who can't accept criticism.

 

Peace!

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To add on to the complaints about the speedrunning community, I think it's more that people complain about the speedrunners themselves due to their critical and sceptical behaviour towards the games rather than the hobby.

 

For example, once I got a comment on YouTube saying "Why do you like a KH hater like BB?". I just told them off and went on to say that BB doesn't hate the game and that if they watched his BBS Turning Point video they would know that he just doesn't agree with what KH has become. Speedrunners don't hate the games they speedrun, how does that even make sense? xD

 

Overall just a bunch of butthurt fanboys/girls who can't accept criticism.

 

Peace!

Oh yeah I remember when you IM'd me about someone doing it

And I am actually on the same situation as BB about it, I don't like what the series became ever since BBS, and I would play KH3 if it will be good...but I doubt it because of the recent games. 

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You my friend are the biggest legend ever! Praise you.

 

I do acknowledge that this isn't everyone, and I obviously wouldn't be here if I hated the entire community. These issues do occur in basically every community.

 

I 100000% agree with you. They may have been waiting 10 years, but they haven't been making it for 10 years. If you honestly think that a PS4 game on the Unreal Engine 4 went into production in 2006 then you are very.... silly.

 

Another thing I don't like is when some people in this community disrespect Final Fantasy fans, the consistent moaning about IGN (the jokes about them being IGNorant are really corny and lame), any time someone criticises the franchise they are immediately 'ignorant' or they 'don't understand the complexity of the series'.

 

The disrespect towards other franchises by certain people is kind of disappointing. Whenever the Arcade Dissidia is mentioned amongst this site the main thing I hear is begging for Sora to be in it, I want him in there too don't get me wrong-but if that's the only reason you're buying the game then that's kind of upsetting.

 

Let me elaborate a bit more, it seems like some people only want to get into Final Fantasy because it's becoming more like Kingdom Hearts.

 

Instead of 'hey tell me more about your franchise!' It's more like

 

I want every FF game to have the KH battle system!!!!

Turn based/ATB? Eww no.

KH is a million times better because it's an APRG and ATB sucks omg.

FF is dying because FF13 did badly

KH is clearly more popular because FF7R is using our battle system (you've seen 30 seconds of gameplay from 13 months ago)

I've been a FAN for YEARS!! I know Leon and Cloud and [insert name of FF character that appears in KH]

 

The only time these people will buy a game is if it has APRG combat, if it even shows any signs of waiting for 10 seconds they'll throw their hands up and complain about how dead ATB or Turn based systems are (Persona laughs at you)

 

Don't get me wrong, it's great more people want to get into the FF franchise, but FF will never be a KH series so stop trying to make it out to be one. They are separate with similarities. I don't care if you don't like turn based and ATB, but don't come into the Final Fantasy community and demand that the series should start becoming like Kingdom Hearts and don't pretend like you've always been a huge fan of the franchise when it's clear you're a newcomer.

0

Another thing is the whole 'this series is too complex for u'

 

Try and write me a 8 line paragraph explaining the plot of KH all the way up until 3. I bet you'll miss something, it's not easy to understand the plot, it's complicated.

 

The JRPG PS4 fanboy mentality is also annoying,

'NO MY PRECOUS KH CANT BE ON XBOX ONE EWW NO I H8 COD AND SHOOTERS'

That sense of entitlement is very unfair on Xbox players,it's not hurting anyone and the gap between the two is not that big.

 

The whole 'I've been waiting 10 years square promised me this' is also annoying but most people are aware. That's pretty much it, other than these and some other things the community is pretty good and the people are very friendly.

Well I agree with all you said although I wanna say something for Number 4.

 

While I'm critical towards Square Enix and Nomura in particular that doesn't mean I don't appreciate all the work done on the series.

 

That and I wanna add a Number 5 which is what I call the "Y U HATER YOU CRITICIZE AND NITPICK SO MUCH NOTHING PLEASE YOU"

 

For whatever reason the KH community perceive any sort of criticism,no matter how civil it is or the fact that it's coming from a legit fan,they will latch and hurl personal insults towards people(certain former staff member who I won't name told me to firetruck off may I point) just because they said they don't like one thing or two about a game or didn't like something like Birth by Sleep

 

I tried to have my complaints and reasons as civil as possible without insulting people yet I get dozens of messages and comments telling me that I'm a hater and I should leave this site,or that I'm a crybaby unappreciative manchild that loves to get angry all the time

 

If I hated the series,why then did I buy a 90$ playart kai figure of Sora last year,why did I plan to purchase 1.5+2.5 when it comes out once I knew the load times would be fixed?Or better yet why am I following KH3 news if I hate the series so much as people claim?

 

I may fell out of it but it doesn't mean I hate it,I just don't agree with some of the directions taken with it that's all.I've been with the series for over a decade now and I'm willing to see the first saga all the way to the end.

 

But hey guess I'm not qualified enough according to some people cuz I don't like Birth by Sleep

100% with you there bro, any criticism is typically met with

'Ur not a tru fan'

'Leave my community go play COD'

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To add on to the complaints about the speedrunning community, I think it's more that people complain about the speedrunners themselves due to their critical and sceptical behaviour towards the games rather than the hobby.

 

For example, once I got a comment on YouTube saying "Why do you like a KH hater like BB?". I just told them off and went on to say that BB doesn't hate the game and that if they watched his BBS Turning Point video they would know that he just doesn't agree with what KH has become. Speedrunners don't hate the games they speedrun, how does that even make sense? xD

 

Overall just a bunch of butthurt fanboys/girls who can't accept criticism.

 

Peace!

Oh I remember BB's Birth by Sleep video cuz I'm probably the biggest fan of it

 

Even though he clarified that he's still a fan and he constantly speedrun the series he's still labeled as a hater cuz he disliked one or two games

 

The KH community rivals the Sonic fandom....I never thought I'd say that

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Point 1: Well said, people need to stop complaining and wait for the story to unfold itself finally.

 

Point 2: I think the main issue i have with this isn't that your opinion is different from mine but simply that you think that this community is some sort of hive mine that eats everything up and agrees with every opinion you have at the same time. What if I actually enjoyed the stories of the majority of the games (like I do) and actually didn't like Kingdom Hearts II and think that it lacked quality control (like I do)? What makes Kingdom Hearts II special from the other games? In my opinion, Kingdom Hearts II was the start of a problem with creating uninteresting, inconsequential Disney worlds that did little to advance an overarching narrative and were simply there for promotional materials, a problem the series would have to struggle with throughout every game after, barring Days, where I felt like the worlds were like real everyday cities for once, like Agrabah and their issues with sandstorms destroying their town. If anything, in my opinion at least, Kingdom Hearts II is the black sheep in this case, and suffered the most problems in the port-over to PS3.

 

Also, I don't think the ports sucked. They introduced tons of new content to English viewers and other viewers across the world all while introducing new fans to a series that previously couldn't shell out the money to buy all of the consoles for it. In my honest opinion, the ports did well, but did suffer some problems, like load times and framerate drops in Birth by Sleep. I think it wasn't a lack of quality control, it was just a matter of what the player felt about them that determined the true quality of the collection, and, personally, I think if we're going to judge the rereleases on anything it's the fact that the games themselves might not be that good, not that they're just not good ports overall.

 

Point 3: Never heard this one, but I agree with you.

 

Point 4: Agreed. Nomura-san didn't deserve the negative comments on this video at all. Grow up people. 

 

Maybe you could write down a couple of reasons why you think the ports lacked quality control instead of just saying that they objectively were poor in quality?

 

EDIT: I'm from the KHInsider community, nice to meet you all! I've been following this forum for months, and hope to get to know you all!

Edited by Gronodonthegreat

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There's more to it then just well...All of this and admit fully I am guilty of few minor ones (The IGN jokes primarily I've never been a big fan of them and that doesn't even stem from KH rather how they've treated other series I like.)

 

I actually enjoy seeing what other people think of the series, for example, you dislike Birth by Sleep? Cool, not my opinion but I can see why someone would dislike it and that's the same with Dream Drop Distance which in most cases I just generally dislike the whole Time Traveling thing. And then seeing people call me "OMG YOU ARE JUST STUPID." or "Wow you didn't even play the game." etc stupid comments like that make me facepalm.

 

But since most of those have been covered let's talk about another more dark part of the community considering KH3 is around it make just even get worse and that the shipping community... The shipping community in KH is like an iceberg with a tip the shipping community is on that tip constantly bending back and forth, back and forth you get the idea It can be stable and at times it can outright just toxicity and complaining about WHO'S SHIP is better AND OMG YOUR A HOMOPHOBE FOR NOT SHIPPING RIKU X SORA. etc

Note that one is primarily for the Tumblr folks

 

The Final Fantasy stuff I agree with yes KH introduced me to Final Fantasy and I'm glad it did and while I am not the biggest fan of Turn based games I still enjoy them greatly, however, seeing people make stupid comments like "THE TURN BASED COMBAT GENRE IS DEAD." Have obviously never played a single Persona game in their life.

On the flip side, however, I dislike people within the community that do nothing but complain, complain and complain about how much KH3 will suck and why 2.8 is garbage etc there is a difference between constructive criticism and whining about stuff because it doesn't hold your hand or fulfill every single wish. Most of these people are the ones who say they only liked KH1 and everything else is bad and when you ask them they usually respond with I DONT HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU IDIOT.

Another thing is the people who get all sensitive about a minor thing happening and this is primarily directed to this forum itself and just certain people I've had interactions with they are few and rare I just generally don't talk with said, people, I have the people I enjoy talking to and most of em are pleasant people who I enjoy just having fun with or Roleplaying with.

So yes I agree with this rant entirely and tbh I hope it makes awareness to people who may have unaware done a few of these things and hope it helps them realize that they only paint the community in a toxic image and that's not what the KH community is 


 

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1a. I wouldn't really consider these people apart of the KH community. Sure, it's kinda dumb that people ignore the other games even if they are, almost objectively speaking, not as good as the numbered games. With that being said, if these people don't understand these game's importance, then I don't think you could consider them a part of the KH community. They're pretty much the most casual of fans .

 

1b. Truth. It also cracks me up when people act like the remasters are delaying KH3 when it would still take a ton of time to be out. The only one that may have reasonably affected development is 2.8 because of 0.2, but even then...

 

2. Isn't this more a problem you have with the series as a whole, not really the community? I mean, I don't disagree necessarily, but I've kind of gotten used to it and don't really care. Same with X/ Unchained X, I think calling it an abomination is a stretch.

 

Here's another sort of problem I have: while there's no doubt the remasters have their problems (I don't think anyone really thinks they're perfect after seeing all the issues people pointed out), I just feel like the issues are kind of exaggerated. Other than the Xemnas fight which is a pain in the ass now, the issues are little more than a nuisance. Most of the issues are more worrisome for speed-runners and such because they slow the game down, and crash after long periods. I've dealt with PS3 Skyrim no problem, so I guess I'm just numb to stuff like this when it doesn't seem THAT bad. I get final mix, updated textures, remastered OST, and in KH1's case, a far superior control scheme. I can deal with the problems when they come up, which for most isn't really that often.

 

3. People have an issue with the speed-runners? I mean, I can't say I'd find it fun myself, or watching it, but I don't hate them for doing that. That's silly. I could see if it's because of certain opinions they might have with, say, BBS (was it Bl00dyBizkitz video, or however it's spelled?). I mean, I agreed in parts of that video, but at others I just rolled my eyes, like "oh, Ventus is in Sora now, so that means Sora is able to wield a keyblade because of Ven and negates that plot point of KH1 where the keyblade wasn't Sora's and he couldn't use it," when that's not necessarily the way it is. Hating the guy based on stuff like that is silly, though.

 

4. Yep.

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This thread is great. I agree with nearly everything on here, might have to quote it whenever I go into the wonderful world of Youtube comments.

 

There was one Polygon video with a clickbait title related to KH that was really a parody, and yet some people bashed on it without watching the actual video...

 

If anything, I still believe that KH3's release will be another FFXV situation.

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I agree with you as well, at least for the most part.

 

Especially the first point is very frustrating, because demanding a game that is simply nowhere near finished is not going to get us a good game. Nomura was right when he said they announced it too early in the interview and it is quite apparent that they've been struggling with the new engine. Looking at the trailers, it doesn't take much to see that, considering for a game that was said to be rather large, we have seen next to nothing so far. The Big Hero 6 world was announced almost 1 1/2 years ago and we have not seen anything of that apart from one picture. Not to mention that there haven't been more characters visible other than Sora, Donald and Goofy and a few Heartless and a Nobody. I'm not saying that they have to show it, but demanding a game that is not even making it seem like ot's anywhere near completionis not really comprehendable.

 

I still feel that FFXV is not really a good comparison, though since I'm not entirely sure they pushed it out in an incompleted state because of the fans. I understand what you mean that it wasn't ready and that trailers don't necessarily mean a smooth, finished experience. 10 years of development are very costly and considering how many games they have to sell to come even makes it relatable. It does not excuse day one patches or an incomplete game, but I still think FFXV is not comparable to KH3 in terms of fans demanding a game and making it bad/rushed because the developers feel pressured.

I do understand what you mean though. Some seem to care more about getting the game early instead of getting a quality game just to know how the plot progresses. I sincerely hope that this won't effect the actual product, despite not knowing if it will come true since Square and Nomura do not seem to care that much about entitled demands. They should just develop the game in secret and reveal it 3 months prior to release next time.

 

 

The fandom on its own isn't more toxic than any other I've been in. There will always be fans who attack you for criticizing the story, the characters, etc. That's not exclusive to the KH fandom because overobsessive fans tend to lose their grip on reality at times. My personal feeling toward this is that it shows even more love for the series to acknowledge flaws and love it despite its shortcomings. I'm not defending their oitrageous behavior at times, like the comments on a video that was not meant to provide fans with anything, I'm merely saying that this is nothing new on the internet and not exclusively found in Kingdom Hearts related content. It's sad and disappointing to see how some think they're entitled to anthing as if they own the franchise and how it's not appreciated how much work is put into games. It's not magic and a game won't appear by snapping our fingers.

 

I don't agree with everything you said but you certainly have a point and it's not wrong that the behavior has only been becoming worse over the last few months and will likely continue in that fashion. I still hope it won't have any effect but if the uproar is large enough from those kind of people, it can make a difference and in this case, not a positive one.

This is not to say that Square didn't make any mistakes, especially with how they treat Unchained X, but is it really so hard to remain somewhat civil?

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Personally, I find the "Don't criticise Kingdom Hearts like that!" and "I want Kingdom Hearts III!" people one in the same. They're both extremists in what they want out of the franchise. Group A will swallow everything Kingdom Hearts without questioning glaring faults and group B are either too nostalgia obsessed or just don't appreciate the wider aspects of Kingdom Hearts.

 

Honestly i hope KH3 ends up disappointing all those people so we never have to hear from them again.

 

That's an easy feat to accomplish. Give them no Star Wars or Marvel worlds lol (and for the record, Big Hero 6 is by Walt Disney Animation Studios).
Edited by Alpha Baymax

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I agree with this, hating on Speedrunners I find it silly to hate on. You know why i despise the fandom at times ´cause it gets very toxic at times like the Jump Festa 2017 thing yes what did you expect? The Final Trailer for 2.8 came early, anyway still it´s not the worst community unless if it´s the Tumblr side of things ugh so many of them who beg that Kairi needs to be playable, yeah let´s say they do it but don´t get your expectations high and yet i get blammed for there behavoir.

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So your second point is about how fans aren't being critical enough and your fourth point is about how they aren't being appreciative enough. Pick a side, dude.

 

In all seriousness, that ties into this next statement: I too have my own personal problems with the fanbase but my biggest issue is the line that's drawn between being a fan and being a fanboy.

 

There's a difference between enjoying something while still be able to find flaws in it versus enjoying something wholeheartedly and playing contrarian to anyone who disagrees. However, the general consensus sometimes tends to blend these two together and choose the latter as the default identifier.

 

Opinions are opinions and everything but one shouldn't disqualify another's mindset just based their arguments aren't all composed of being a Negative Nilly. We're all allowed a chance to speak, even if we just so happen to be defending something rather than opposing, and that shouldn't be treated as a bad thing.

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Well hey, like all fandoms, there's the calm, civil, logical people that discuss games in a civilized way, and then there's the people that outright destroy anyone with a different opinion, ya know? It's messed up, I know, but that's the way it is!

 

That's the reason why I love this site, though! There's so many members here who have vastly different opinions on where the franchise stands, and yet you don't see people destroying each other over each other's opinions! Now that's fair play and civility! Whenever I'm discussing something about the series with the members, I read their opinions and take them into consideration, you don't see me arguing to them about their opinions, ya know?  But not everyone knows how to do that!

 

Yeah, the KH community can be toxic at times, like all game fandoms, but there's also diamonds in the rough, ya know?  I'm grateful for everything that Nomura and his team have done for us with this series, and I patiently await KHIII. If it doesn't come out this year, fine, I won't get butthurt over it. I'll just be patient, ya know? I've waited ten years, two more years won't kill me! :P

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Yeah, every fandom has a toxic side to it. I mean yeah if KH3 isn't released this year I may be dissapointed, but I won't be incredibly salty about it. More time to work on it will more than likely result in a better finished product. The way I see it is we have two options: wait for a complete product with a minimal amount of problems, or have a rushed product which would most likely end up being a broken, incomplete, unbalanced, bug filled mess (basically suffer the same fate as a game like Sonic 06).

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cause it gets very toxic at times like the Jump Festa 2017 thing yes what did you expect? 

I forgot to put this on back when I posted it and I only remembered it now

 

Complaint No. 5: Self-Entitlement

We all know the fiasco back in D23 Japan 2015. We all know the thing with Jump Festa 2016. We also know about the thing about the 2.5 launch event. Here's the thing: wherever a news article about an upcoming convention has "Kingdom Hearts" and "trailer" attached to it in a single sentence, "fans" are automatically considering themselves as entitled for a new trailer, like Square Enix owes them a trailer just with that sentence alone. Honestly, I'm dumbfounded on this basis. I have a golden rule when it comes to stuff like trailers. I don't and won't expect anything a new promotional content from Square Enix or any other company until 1. it will be shown in a livestreamed event (E3, PSX, Jump Festa at times, if Kingdom Hearts really is in their SE Presents livestream lineup) or 2. the digital team (or Nomura himself, in some instances) for Kingdom Hearts announces that there will be an upcoming trailer at a specific date and time. I can't see why this is not the general consensus among the community. Just because "a trailer will be shown at the convention" does not exactly mean that it will be for the eyes of everyone in the goddamn planet Earth. I remember having this snippet in the article regarding the D23 Japan Kingdom Hearts event: "a trailer will be shown exclusively for the attendees" or something along those lines. YET PEOPLE IGNORED THAT SNIPPET just because its not in the same sentence as "Kingdom Hearts will be showing a trailer at this event"! I dunno why this was a thing, its probably because personalities like TheGamersJoint or HMK hypes the crap out of stuff like this (no hate, just telling the blatant truth)

 

[crap, I mentioned TGJ and HMK... now I have to tackle this... *facepalms*]

 

Complaint No. 6: Hypers, Theorists, etc. [again, no hate, just the blatant truth]

 

I don't watch the x-keepers, or whatever they're called, except for Dean (SoraAlam1), more on this later. I usually read news/fan sites like KH13 and KHI for Kingdom Hearts news. The thing is, it became an impression to me that what they're posting is straight up clickbait, and they're doing it for views to reach a certain quota (I dunno how YouTube-ing works, nor I am interested in knowing). It also seems though as if the moment a certain thing about Kingdom Hearts has moved, they're into it. For example: moments after Utada Teruzane accidentally mentioned that they're working towards KH3's opening, a good two hours later, I already saw a TGJ video regarding it. After Teruzane-san took back that statement, I had no idea what happened to that video.

 

Don't get me wrong, knowing something is good. And letting your audience know about what you know is good. However, doing it in such an annoying fashion, is a straight up no-no. And by annoying fashion, I mean posting a video every day or so, having no substance at all, or posting up theories, which might be good at first, is dumb enough to be debunked from a technical perspective. Like how Gula and KH3 Sora had the same pose, and someone said that they're related (probably a coincidence)... or about the "20 locks in Luxu's case pertains to 13 darknesses and 7 lights (cases need to have a side needed to open upon, either remove 4 or 3 locks in that theory, please)

 

Lemme quote a friend here: "Its okay to open up theories and share information, but it is not good to force-feed theories as if it was the truth." Nowadays, because of the way those theories have been force-fed to some people, some people consider it to be the truth. 

 

Another thing I hate about these guys is the way they behave, apart from causing drama in the KH speedrunning community at some point (both conflicts resolved, won't talk further into this since the people involved might not like this being brought back to life in detail), Their behavior is kinda... embarrassing up to the point that if I was their parent, I'd disown them right then and there. Hyperbolic reactions on trailers, HMK screaming at SE Press Conference back in E3 2015, and again at the Kingdom Hearts panel at SE presents livestream, and many more that I can't recall. I'll sum it up in this one, "non-rude" question: "Do these guys have ADHD?"

 

Now, regarding Dean. I exempted Dean on this complaint because of one reason: in my eyes, he PROBABLY (note the word here) realized that this is becoming a problem and has decided to tone things down. Compare his video from around 4 years ago to his videos now... there's a difference. Out of the bunch, he now seems to be the grown-up among the babies. Now you might be thinking: "You're firetrucking biased towards Dean..." True, because he's the more mature and the person whom I can talk into comfortably regarding actual KH facts... unlike some other guys whose answer to me will be "because this is the popular theory, this is the truth"

 

[again, for the third time, I am not hating on the x-Keepers, even though it does seem that way. I am only telling the blatant truth.]

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