Osaka Team and the Future of Kingdom Hearts

[lemellekh2 38]

Hey guys!

 

I've been wanting to have a discussion on some of the things Osaka team can improve on. In short, I'll say the secret boss in 0.2 was a step in the right direction, but I still fear that the balancing, scaling, and combo issues may transition into KH3. That being said, they are improving, and I wanted to have a good talk about Osaka's approach to developing these games.

 

Best to all!

[A Heartless Nobody 120]

People give too much crap to the Osaka team. Take into account that BBS and 3D had lower budgets than KH2 and were handhelds.

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

People give too much crap to the Osaka team. Take into account that BBS and 3D had lower budgets than KH2 and were handhelds.

Having a low budget doesn't justify the poor quality of both games imo. The 'budget' doesn't seem to be a problem considering we've got 3 HD collections, including a new demo and a new CG movie.

[twogoodius 49]

Basically what I want from them is for the to bring Revenge Value back for KH3 (Which I'm pretty sure they will do, as it was in 0.2), make it so I can customize my combos (and the rest of my abilities for that matter. The AP system from KH2 pls.), make it so it's satisfying to hit enemies (did anyone else notice in BBS and DDD it never felt like you were hitting anything? They fixed this for the most part in 0.2, but it's important enough I needed to mention it.) And (this is sort of a nitpick) but BBS, DDD, and even 0.2 all feel a little...floaty, for lack of a better word. As if they turned down the gravity just a bit.

 

oh and fix blocking. maybe its just me but it feels like there is a bit of a delay when I press the block button that was not there in KH1 or 2... 

[lemellekh2 38]

People give too much crap to the Osaka team. Take into account that BBS and 3D had lower budgets than KH2 and were handhelds.

That's a good point. At the same time, it is easy to scale games, whether you have a low or high budget. I'm not trying to give them crap, just help these games improve. Therefore, I won't defend Osaka team on things they can work on. 

Basically what I want from them is for the to bring Revenge Value back for KH3 (Which I'm pretty sure they will do, as it was in 0.2), make it so I can customize my combos (and the rest of my abilities for that matter. The AP system from KH2 pls.), make it so it's satisfying to hit enemies (did anyone else notice in BBS and DDD it never felt like you were hitting anything? They fixed this for the most part in 0.2, but it's important enough I needed to mention it.) And (this is sort of a nitpick) but BBS, DDD, and even 0.2 all feel a little...floaty, for lack of a better word. As if they turned down the gravity just a bit.

 

oh and fix blocking. maybe its just me but it feels like there is a bit of a delay when I press the block button that was not there in KH1 or 2... 

Definitely agree with all of that. 0.2 definitely made the combos less flimsy, but they are still a tad bit slow, especially Spellweaver. Combo modifiers will likely solve the issue. And no more pre-patch Devil's Tower/Wave! haha

[JTD95 1,107]

I wish for them to improve the feel of the combat. In KH1 and KH2 the combat feels very organic and every move flows naturally into the next one. Most of the movements in BbS, 3D, and Re:CoM to a certain degree all feel very mechanic and awkward. Granted those games are more based around commands and not regular combo attacks, but that still ain't an excuse.

[A Heartless Nobody 120]

Having a low budget doesn't justify the poor quality of both games imo. The 'budget' doesn't seem to be a problem considering we've got 3 HD collections, including a new demo and a new CG movie.

A lower budget means less time and resources to implement features and balance, so the fact that 3D and BBS are worse than KH2 shouldn't be a surprise and shouldn't be held against the team developing those games. Also, HD collections cost a lot less than full AAA games (that's why developers make so many despite the fact that they never sell nearly as well as new games), 0.2's budget was probably very small, because it was using assets from a game with a much larger budget, and the CG movie is essentially just a bunch of video game cutscenes, which aren't anywhere near as expensive to make as Hollywood film scenes.

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

A lower budget means less time and resources to implement features and balance, so the fact that 3D and BBS are worse than KH2 shouldn't be a surprise and shouldn't be held against the team developing those games. Also, HD collections cost a lot less than full AAA games (that's why developers make so many despite the fact that they never sell nearly as well as new games), 0.2's budget was probably very small, because it was using assets from a game with a much larger budget, and the CG movie is essentially just a bunch of video game cutscenes, which aren't anywhere near as expensive to make as Hollywood film scenes.

Can you please link me an article or give a reference as to where you got the idea that BBS and DDD had a 'lower budget' then KH1 and KH2? A lower budget does not excuse a poor quality video game, by your logic a high budget game must mean the game is good.

 

Your second point on your first post was about how the games were restricted to handhelds. Final Fantasy 7 Crisis Core, Persona 3 Portable, Dissidia Final Fantasy 012 and plenty of other games were of very high quality in my opinion, they were on the PSP. The 3DS is more powerful than the PS2 so your argument about how DDD was restricted to a handheld falls flat. They then remastered the game for PS4 and the balloonra spell and flowmotion aspects are still broken. Placing a 3DS game, a game from a Nintendo system onto a PlayStation 4, a Sony system is not easy and I'm willing to bet DDD was made from scratch. 

 

'A lower budget means less time and resources to implement features and balance'

 

So a lower budget means that Square Enix can't even beta test their game properly? After releasing the same game twice? As for 'features', Kingdom Hearts 2 had plenty of those (if you mean mechanics such as drive forms, summons etc) and they all worked fine. 

 

0.2 probably cost more than either of the handhelds considering that every game besides 0.2, KH3 and the BC movie is on the UE4. An engine which Square Enix are paying Epic Games to use (at least from my knowledge), all the other KH games are made on the same in house engine. 0.2 was a fun game gameplay wise so they did a good job there.

 

You can love the handhelds all you want, my friends on here love them, but I disagree with these excuses you are making.

Edited February 28, 2017 by The 13th Kenpachi

[KingdomHearts3 2,591]

I would say the Osaka team has definitely gone the distance as evidence with HD2.8. I give them their props.

[KH4Real 749]

Nah KH3 will be awesome Firaga isn't anymore then the FIraga we know in kH2 .

And KH2 is still a fantastic game.

Edited February 28, 2017 by KH4Real

[Headphone Jack 1,147]

i've yet to play 0.2 but i'd really like to think the combat won't be as bad as it was in DDD. 

[lemellekh2 38]

i've yet to play 0.2 but i'd really like to think the combat won't be as bad as it was in DDD. 

It was better than DDD. Still ways to improve, but it's good to know they've been listening.

 

I would say the Osaka team has definitely gone the distance as evidence with HD2.8. I give them their props.

Agreed. As long as they keep going up, I have great confidence for 3. Bizkit's videos on the mechanics were pretty spot on in regards to 0.2

A lower budget means less time and resources to implement features and balance, so the fact that 3D and BBS are worse than KH2 shouldn't be a surprise and shouldn't be held against the team developing those games. Also, HD collections cost a lot less than full AAA games (that's why developers make so many despite the fact that they never sell nearly as well as new games), 0.2's budget was probably very small, because it was using assets from a game with a much larger budget, and the CG movie is essentially just a bunch of video game cutscenes, which aren't anywhere near as expensive to make as Hollywood film scenes.

I cant find a source for any released figures on the budget. 

 

Can you please link me an article or give a reference as to where you got the idea that BBS and DDD had a 'lower budget' then KH1 and KH2? A lower budget does not excuse a poor quality video game, by your logic a high budget game must mean the game is good.

 

Your second point on your first post was about how the games were restricted to handhelds. Final Fantasy 7 Crisis Core, Persona 3 Portable, Dissidia Final Fantasy 012 and plenty of other games were of very high quality in my opinion, they were on the PSP. The 3DS is more powerful than the PS2 so your argument about how DDD was restricted to a handheld falls flat. They then remastered the game for PS4 and the balloonra spell and flowmotion aspects are still broken. Placing a 3DS game, a game from a Nintendo system onto a PlayStation 4, a Sony system is not easy and I'm willing to bet DDD was made from scratch. 

 

'A lower budget means less time and resources to implement features and balance'

 

So a lower budget means that Square Enix can't even beta test their game properly? After releasing the same game twice? As for 'features', Kingdom Hearts 2 had plenty of those (if you mean mechanics such as drive forms, summons etc) and they all worked fine. 

 

0.2 probably cost more than either of the handhelds considering that every game besides 0.2, KH3 and the BC movie is on the UE4. An engine which Square Enix are paying Epic Games to use (at least from my knowledge), all the other KH games are made on the same in house engine. 0.2 was a fun game gameplay wise so they did a good job there.

 

You can love the handhelds all you want, my friends on here love them, but I disagree with these excuses you are making.

Definitely, budgets don't excuse testing. There are plenty of low-budgets games that turn our phenomenal, as well as plenty of high-budget games that are horribly tested. It's all about quality over quantity. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Well, I've never really had any qualms with how the Osaka Team has handled the franchise, as I've enjoyed Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance fondly, they're two of my favorite entries in the series, after all! But I have noticed what many members here would say about the combat being floaty and whatnot, but it never really bothered me.

 

I did notice, though, that 0.2's combat, in my eyes at least, is very akin to that of Kingdom Hearts II's! It's fast paced, it's hectic, the magic system is godly, and the Link Styles Spellweaver and Wayfinder were perfect! I believe the Osaka team has polished their skills, and one can only imagine how awesome they'll have Kingdom Hearts III be! I'm confident that Kingdom Hearts III is in good hands!

Edited March 1, 2017 by The Transcendent Key

[MadChapelier 19]

I see a lot of people complaining about combat too.

 

I also think the Osaka team has polished their skills for KH3. But I wonder what will happen to them after KH3 is finished. They used to make spin-offs and stuff but now... ? Especially since the "original" KH team was the one developping Versus but the project got canceled. I guess a lot of them stayed in Business Division 2 but I don't know what the other ones are doing. I also wonder which team will develop the next KH.

 

Oh, before these Business Divisions, both the Tokyo team and the Osaka team were part of the 1st Production Department Premiere actually. I remember they said that in 2011. So maybe they'll cooperate together. As of now KH3 is only 10% developed in Tokyo, and I'm pretty sure it's just Nomura and Hashimoto's doing, lol.

 

(I even remember Nomura saying the KH3 and FFXV teams competed against each other, but that was in 2013 and Nomura was still FFXV's director.)

Having a low budget doesn't justify the poor quality of both games imo. The 'budget' doesn't seem to be a problem considering we've got 3 HD collections, including a new demo and a new CG movie.

Haven't watched X Back Cover yet but I believe it's in-engine and not CG?

Edited March 1, 2017 by MadChapelier

[lemellekh2 38]

Well, I've never really had any qualms with how the Osaka Team has handled the franchise, as I've enjoyed Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance fondly, they're two of my favorite entries in the series, after all! But I have noticed what many members here would say about the combat being floaty and whatnot, but it never really bothered me.

 

I did notice, though, that 0.2's combat, in my eyes at least, is very akin to that of Kingdom Hearts II's! It's fast paced, it's hectic, the magic system is godly, and the Link Styles Spellweaver and Wayfinder were perfect! I believe the Osaka team has polished their skills, and one can only imagine how awesome they'll have Kingdom Hearts III be! I'm confident that Kingdom Hearts III is in good hands!

0.2 was definitely on the right track for character combat! I did feel Spellweaver and the ground combos were a bit slow, but that's probably cause it's Aqua. As long as Sora has combo modifiers, it should be pretty smooth and slick.

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

0.2 was definitely on the right track for character combat! I did feel Spellweaver and the ground combos were a bit slow, but that's probably cause it's Aqua. As long as Sora has combo modifiers, it should be pretty smooth and slick.

 

The thing I noticed with 0.2 in and of itself is that Aqua is actually quite more agile than her Birth By Sleep days! In Birth By Sleep, her combos were slower, but in 0.2, she shows more speed and the flow of her attacks transition well! I also found Spellweaver attacks to be much faster as well! Through hard work and practicing, Osaka has managed to hone their skills quite well, and I'm confident that they'll work wonders for Kingdom Hearts III!

Edited March 4, 2017 by The Transcendent Key

[lemellekh2 38]

The thing I noticed with 0.2 in and of itself is that Aqua is actually quite more agile than her Birth By Sleep days! In Birth By Sleep, her combos were slower, but in 0.2, she shows more speed and the flow of her attacks transition well! I also found Spellweaver attacks to be much faster as well! Through hard work and practicing, Osaka has managed to hone their skills quite well, and I'm confident that they'll work wonders for Kingdom Hearts III!

Aqua's running was sooo much better. Pre-patch base level crit sorta brought out some of the flaws off BBS, but patching shows they listen and are actively working to improve, which is great for improvement. Now we just have to wait to see what comes next haha!

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Aqua's running was sooo much better. Pre-patch base level crit sorta brought out some of the flaws off BBS, but patching shows they listen and are actively working to improve, which is great for improvement. Now we just have to wait to see what comes next haha!

 

Indeed, friend, indeed! I think that by the next time we see some gameplay footage of Kingdom Hearts III, odds are that the combat will look much more fluid, and I'm guessing it'll look beautiful! I really cannot wait for a new trailer to see the game's progress!

[lemellekh2 38]

Indeed, friend, indeed! I think that by the next time we see some gameplay footage of Kingdom Hearts III, odds are that the combat will look much more fluid, and I'm guessing it'll look beautiful! I really cannot wait for a new trailer to see the game's progress!

Same here! And with the token Rage Awakened music. Part of me wants them to play that at the World Tour lol

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Same here! And with the token Rage Awakened music. Part of me wants them to play that at the World Tour lol

 

Haha, I'm sure they will! After all, Rage Awakened is a pretty iconic piece in the Kingdom Hearts series, so I'm sure that it'll be played at one of the concerts! Anyways though, I hope Osaka does good with Kingdom Hearts III!

[TheKeyofRose 282]

Confidence all around that KH3 will be good.

 

0.2 satisfied me.

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Confidence all around that KH3 will be good.

 

0.2 satisfied me.

 

I know, right? 0.2, to me at least, felt very close to Kingdom Hearts II in terms of combat! I missed the traditional battle command menu, and well, overall, you can get the general feeling of awesomeness that comes whenever we are received with a numbered title in the franchise!