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Finn and vigor

Will Saix/Isa be saved from Xehanorts control?

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A thought I've been having regarding the fates of the 13 seekers of darkness after the climax of KH3 has been really nagging me lately and that is will Siax or any of the other unknown members somehow turn around their ways? At this point Master Xehanort, Ansem, Xemnas, Xigbar, and Young Xehanort are obviously gonna perish in the end game of KH3 but what about Saix? Im probably gonna hear a lot of people say "he deserves to die" with how much of an asshole he was in KH2 and especially 358/2 days with Siax calling Xion "broken" and all that but i honestly really want to see him turn good in some way. He may have been an unforgivable douchebag to Xion and even Axel in the past but i still really like the guy, he's top five in my favorite organization members. I think it would be interesting seeing him help out Sora as well. Plus if KH3 has moments where you get to play as Kairi, she is most likely gonna have Lea as a party member and im betting the main focus of that will be Lea and Kairi working together to find Isa and fix him up somehow.

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Saix/Isa is one of my favourite characters, but I'd prefer that he died at the end of KH3, or went off to do his own thing. I couldn't really see him being completely good again? Though if he was to die, I feel like it's only fair that he redeemed himself in some way before it; either by self-sacrifice, helping the lights for a short period, betraying xehanort, or just having an emotional moment with Lea, otherwise it could be a waste of a backstory. Though of course it depends how he got there in the first place.

 

But I hope his backstory is explained more in KH3. Lea and Isa interest me. :)

Edited by Xiggy's Fish

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I don't think Isa made that choice willingly. Despite his behavior, I always got the impression that he was the one who wanted his heart back the most out of all of them. Which made him an ideal target to become a vessel. I'm not justifying his treatment toward Roxas and Xion in particular, but people do terrible things when they're desperate and to him, it probably seemed like Lea was easily replacing him. We don't know much of their backstory, though so that's merely my opinion. But with what happened to Sora and Terra (and even Riku), becoming a vessel is not always a matter of choice. And who knows how many of his actions are actually based on voluntary decisions.

 

That's why I'd like him to be redeemed and live. I feel like they will just kill him off to avoid awkward moments when Lea reunites with Roxas and Xion due to his previous treatment, or just to create an emotional scene, not because it is absolutely necessary plot-wise since Isa wasn't evil before. I don't see why Riku should get his redemption and other characters shouldn't, that's all. Let's not forget that he also made that decision on his own back in KH1 and he was still forgiven.

 

I don't want Isa to be disposed of just out of convenience to avoid him from being friends with Lea again. Especially for reasons such as fan-favorites like Roxas and Xion not fitting into that beloved trio picture anymore.

Edited by Merilly

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I hope we get some insight on Isa/Saix's past. Why did him and Lea join the Organization? Why were they chosen? Was he willing to join the Organization or was he forced to? Is it Isa or Saix revived that's a seeker, since it wasn't really specified? Maybe some more tidbits regarding him and Lea's friendship. Hopefully we'll end up with more answers than questions.

 

On the subject of Isa/Saix's fate, honestly I feel like he's going to bite the dust in KH3. We've seen time and time again that his loyalties primarily lie with Xemnas. I do believe he shouldn't "die" irredeemable. I want him to find the error of his ways in his final moments, maybe pull a last minute heroic stunt.

Edited by Hallowseve

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Considering the events in DDD, I think its pretty much a given that we will get some more insight in Isa's role in the grand scheme of things. And even though its not talked about as much as Sora/Riku, or Riku/Mickey's bonds of friendship, its VERY clear that Isa/Lea have a very strong bond, even though Lea is still looking for Roxas, the ties with Isa are still there and they're still strong. I fully expect to see at least some kind resolution between the two in some for. Whether Isa comes back, remains to be seen. He's fully become a Xehanort vessel, and right now, its unclear if anyone can fully recover from such a "possession". Its one of many things to look forward too. :P

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I don't necessarily like the guy, but it does seem like part of Lea's story arc is going to be "rescuing" Saix/Isa from Xehanort's clutches as well as reuniting with Roxas and Xion, so it'd be weird to not have Isa brought back from the Darkness. I mean if Terra deserves to be saved then Isa may as well be saved too I suppose, and I'm sure Lea recognizes that the changes in his behavior over the years as Saix is due to the manipulations of Xehanort and Xemnas. Not necessarily the whole "Xehanort's influence" thing but more on the whole "Nobodies don't have hearts" thing, as it gave him a justification for becoming more and more heartless over the years. And again, as much as I find him to be a jerk, I do still kind of feel for him, at least for Lea's sake.

 

Even up until 358/2 Days it was clear that the two of them weren't entirely trusting of Xemnas and had agendas of their own (which, who knows, may have involved eventually usurping Xemnas himself...really hope they elaborate on what those plans actually were...), and Saix probably only became as compliant and loyal as he was in KH2 because things with Axel had essentially fallen apart by the time both he and Roxas were renegades. He might not have shown it or was even honest to himself about it, but he was probably a little "heartbroken" over Axel's actions, and if you pay enough attention, you can detect a hint of upset in his tone when he's calling Axel "foolish and weak" for sacrificing himself for Sora and Roxas. He's trying to hide whatever sentiment he might have with anger and distaste, which I guess in the end only ended up fueling his lust for strength and his willingness to see Xemnas's plans go through, whether he knew all of his intentions or not.

 

So, there might still be a few loose ends to tie up with Isa/Saix. Like many of the other members there, he was being used by Xehanort as a means towards a larger goal so in a way he is still a bit of a victim depending on how you read it. So it might still make sense for him to get saved/redeemed in the end.

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I'm sure he will be saved,we don't know much about how he became a vessel,but I got the feeling that,like Terra, he's a victim of Xehanort's scheme,he's not as evil has he seems to be,he's a bit cold and shy,but in Days we see a bit of his good side.

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I don't think so. Judging his face in Dream Drop Distance after Lea save Sora I say Isa made his choice. Honestly I hope he doesn't get save or redeem because I rather see Isa kick the the bucket at the end of Kingdom Hearts 3.

I agree! the thing about nobodies is they may cant feel emotions but they have a mind and they remember how it was like to feel meaning he knew what he was doing in 358/2 days He made his choice a long time ago

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Honestly, I've been debating this a lot with myself, and with my friends too! It's a very difficult situation and a nasty one at that, and to see Lea having to come into an inevitable confrontation with Isa is just sad. I know that Lea doesn't want to kill him, if anything, he just wants his friend back!

 

I see this going in one of two ways!

 

In the best case scenario, Lea could actually be able to bring Isa back to the side of the light, and therefore rid him of Xehanort's influence for good! Sure, there's big ruptures and fractures in their friendship at this point, but it's nothing that time and forgiveness can't fix, right? And I'm sure Lea would want nothing more than to mend fences with his best friend. I'm sure he misses him!

 

But the worst case scenario is what I believe will probably happen. Isa is too far gone. Even with Terra, at least Terra was trying to fight back against Xehanort's control, but Isa never once showed signs of rebelling against Xehanort. I mean sure, there was that one point when he and Lea apparently wanted to take over the Organization, but other than that, Isa has been nothing but loyal to Xehanort, and seeing how he was in Dream Drop Distance, I think he's too far gone to be saved. I think Lea will have no choice but to kill him, or else he'll be a threat to the worlds! And if this does come to pass, I want Nomura to handle this in the most heartbreakingly tragic way possible, because when it comes to these kinds of situations, I love for the drama to be airtight! And where it concerns Lea and Isa, there's much drama to behold!  

 

I really don't know how this will end up, but I think Isa will meet a grim demise! :O

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Honestly, I've been debating this a lot with myself, and with my friends too! It's a very difficult situation and a nasty one at that, and to see Lea having to come into an inevitable confrontation with Isa is just sad. I know that Lea doesn't want to kill him, if anything, he just wants his friend back!

 

I see this going in one of two ways!

 

In the best case scenario, Lea could actually be able to bring Isa back to the side of the light, and therefore rid him of Xehanort's influence for good! Sure, there's big ruptures and fractures in their friendship at this point, but it's nothing that time and forgiveness can't fix, right? And I'm sure Lea would want nothing more than to mend fences with his best friend. I'm sure he misses him!

 

But the worst case scenario is what I believe will probably happen. Isa is too far gone. Even with Terra, at least Terra was trying to fight back against Xehanort's control, but Isa never once showed signs of rebelling against Xehanort. I mean sure, there was that one point when he and Lea apparently wanted to take over the Organization, but other than that, Isa has been nothing but loyal to Xehanort, and seeing how he was in Dream Drop Distance, I think he's too far gone to be saved. I think Lea will have no choice but to kill him, or else he'll be a threat to the worlds! And if this does come to pass, I want Nomura to handle this in the most heartbreakingly tragic way possible, because when it comes to these kinds of situations, I love for the drama to be airtight! And where it concerns Lea and Isa, there's much drama to behold!  

 

I really don't know how this will end up, but I think Isa will meet a grim demise! :O

I sure hope so he doesn't. Then again Xigbar is surely going to perish in the end and he is my favorite organization member out of the 13 so if he goes I'll just need to suck it up if Isa goes as well. 

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I agree! the thing about nobodies is they may cant feel emotions but they have a mind and they remember how it was like to feel meaning he knew what he was doing in 358/2 days He made his choice a long time ago

I disagree. Neither Terra nor Riku made the choice to become possessed and a vessel and although both fought back, the actions committed in their body weren't their own. Even now, Terra's body is used and you don't see anymore struggling in everything between KH1 and 3D on his part. Who's to say the same thing did not happen to Isa? We haven't seen a lot of him so there is no way to tell how much he thought back and initially, his wish to regain his heart may have been stronger than the will to fight Xehanort. If he promised Isa to get his heart back and he agreed, it may have been to late to fight back by the time he realized it. I think assuming anything that the vessels do to be of their own volition might be a stretch since we have seen how much control Xehanort has over Terra. Not everyone retains full control of their personality and actions.

In fact, it seems like Isa lost his control over his body completely at the end of 3D. I don't interpret his actions as having made his choice but rather as him having nothing left of his own being. His face did not show determination or anything, it showed nothing. He was completely apathetic, had no sarcastic comment to add, nothing. He has never been this expressionless in Days. Annoyed, angry, sarcastic, yes, but never this blank.

 

Anothed thing to add is that the conversation between Braig and Young Xehanort made it rather obvious that Isa was chosen as a vessel. He was unconscious together with the rest and I believe he was simply taken to become a vessel. No choice included.

 

 

Then there's also the matter that we know nothing. Judging by his eyes and ears, Isa already was partly Xehanort by the time he was introduced for the first time. As I said, becoming a vessel is not always a matter of choice. Terra was forced as well as what they attempted to do to Sora. And if they can bring back people like Naminé, Roxas and Xion who shouldn't even exist anymore, there is no real reason why this should not be possible for other characters either just because they're not as popular. This is Kingdom Hearts after all. I doubt there is a too far into darkness there, considering Kairi brought Sora back from being a Heartless...

Edited by Merilly

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Even now, Terra's body is used and you don't see anymore struggling in everything between KH1 and 3D on his part. I think assuming anything that the vessels do to be of their own volition might be a stretch since we have seen how much control Xehanort has over Terra.

 

I, in turn, disagree.

 

There's so much behind-the-scenes ambiguity (which Nomura's repeatedly made it a point to lampshade), not to mention Terra(/Eraqus)'s resistance actually got stronger in A Fragmentary Passage.

 

That, and the DDD Ultimania flat-out said MX came back in his old body, not Terra's.

Edited by Alan Smithee

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I, in turn, disagree.

 

There's so much behind-the-scenes ambiguity (which Nomura's repeatedly made it a point to lampshade), not to mention Terra(/Eraqus)'s resistance actually got stronger in A Fragmentary Passage.

 

That, and the DDD Ultimania flat-out said MX came back in his old body, not Terra's.

We don't know if his resistance got stronger but just that he is still fighting, which he never ceased to do if the secret ending of BBS is anythinf to go by. That scene plays during KH1 and Terra is nowhere near a point where he could be saved. At least not until KH3.

 

Additionally, just because Xehanort came back in his own body doesn't mean he doesn't have control of Terra anymore. He flat out said that Terra is under his control. Not to mention that Xemnas is Terra's body. Since Xemnas returns, he does still have control over a part of Terra in that regard. There has to be force involved when it comes to vessels, otherwise Sora would have been a poor choice since he would never agree to being used as a vessel. So who's to say Isa's resistance won't grow as well?

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Additionally, just because Xehanort came back in his own body doesn't mean he doesn't have control of Terra anymore. He flat out said that Terra is under his control. Not to mention that Xemnas is Terra's body. Since Xemnas returns, he does still have control over a part of Terra in that regard. There has to be force involved when it comes to vessels, otherwise Sora would have been a poor choice since he would never agree to being used as a vessel. So who's to say Isa's resistance won't grow as well?

 

1. "Another on your list" =/= automatically Terra (please don't put definite words into vague statements (especially since the context could've just as easily referred to Ven's Heart being inside an about-to-be-possessed Sora (which is what I personally believe))).

 

2. Xemnas hasn't returned (at least not revival-wise); it's just Past!Xemnas via time-travel (same with Ansem, SOD).

 

3. MX still had to KO Sora (thus avoiding said resistance entirely) first.

 

And with that, I think I'll leave before I get trapped in yet another circular argument about these things; just felt the need to correct a few (unfortunately frequent) misconceptions.

Edited by Alan Smithee

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It's actually not a misconception since time travel Xemnas still is Xemnas, which implies a return. I never said revival, just return. It still is Terra's body, even if it is not the present body. It's irrelevant fom which time he comes.

 

Another on your list is not a vague statement at all since Ven was shown to be still sleeping in the chamber or waking and Aqua is still in the Realm of Darkness. Since Mickey recounted all the members and Xehanort used present tense, there's not much vagueness involved. Of course I can still be wrong but if I were Nomura, I wouldn't see the need to 100% voice every little thing. Not to mention that the other don't know VATand even Mickey only uses "my three missing friends" instead of their names. To be honest, Xehanort could also use that phrasing to make them question who it is. Ven's heart being possessed may be a possibility but with everything that happened, you make it seem like Terra is completely out of the question when they made it such a huge deal in A Fragmentary Passage that he is still fighting. I'm not saying I have to be right or that you are wrong on this but theories always contain information set to be finite in order for the theory to work. We all know there is nothing set when it comes to the future. We don't even know it's the real Isa we saw and not a time travel one.

 

And yes he had to KO Sora, but it still does not speak against the redemption of Isa or that he did not choose to become vessel. It just shows that it is possible to force someone to become a vessel.

 

I'm not trying to start an argument, but things don't always have to be spelled out to be finite. I'm not saying that I'm absolutely right and that Nomura doesn't have surprises up his sleeve, but your arguments are the same as mine: based on assumptions. And since this is a topic relating to the future neither of us know, I see nothing wrong with speculating.

 

In this case, I just agree to disagree. I don't see any misconceptions in my post since I never said some of the things you think of as misconceptions.

1. "Another on your list" =/= automatically Terra (please don't put definite words into vague statements (especially since the context could've just as easily referred to Ven's Heart being inside an about-to-be-possessed Sora (which is what I personally believe))).

 

2. Xemnas hasn't returned (at least not revival-wise); it's just Past!Xemnas via time-travel (same with Ansem, SOD).

 

3. MX still had to KO Sora (thus avoiding said resistance entirely) first.

 

And with that, I think I'll leave before I get trapped in yet another circular argument about these things; just felt the need to correct a few (unfortunately frequent) misconceptions.

Edited by Merilly

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Of course.

 

And sorry for any misconceptions, poor wordings, expired tacos, etc., from my own end.

Sorry for my part, too. I guess I should word some things more carefully. It's just very difficult at times to figure out the right amount of detail to prevent it from being too vague and at the same time to reach a point where it doesn't appear to be set in stone.

 

Expired tacos should be a crime though. :D

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I sure hope so he doesn't. Then again Xigbar is surely going to perish in the end and he is my favorite organization member out of the 13 so if he goes I'll just need to suck it up if Isa goes as well. 

 

Yeah, well, we'll have to be prepared to say goodbye to our favorite bad guys so that a new set of bad guys can come along! But hey, the Organization had a great run, wouldn't you say so? :D

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Yeah, well, we'll have to be prepared to say goodbye to our favorite bad guys so that a new set of bad guys can come along! But hey, the Organization had a great run, wouldn't you say so? :D

true. I hope they at least make Xigbar's end very satisfying though, like maybe he backstabs Xehanort and turns into the True Final boss? (I think I might be exaggerating with hope saying that lol)

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true. I hope they at least make Xigbar's end very satisfying though, like maybe he backstabs Xehanort and turns into the True Final boss? (I think I might be exaggerating with hope saying that lol)

 

I've actually thought about this approach as well! I mean, clearly Braig has some other scheme in the works, and I believe he's only been playing along with Xehanort just so that he himself can meet his own goals, and I think he will end up backstabbing Xehanort in the final moments of the game! But I think Xehanort will end up killing him, though.

 

And as for Isa, I really hope there's more backstory between him and Lea revealed, so that way, when he dies, there's that much more emotional weight behind the loss and Lea's reaction to it!

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