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Kingdom Hearts III's "Final Battle Trailer" has been released

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19 minutes ago, HarLea Quinn said:

The whole plot from the beginning has been retconned as even Nomura has admitted writing as he goes. That's never good lol. Those you listed themselves were bad enough and everything after DDD it basically a retcon and IMHO all unnecessary. If we want to go into a list go into my thread history you will see I have made many threads discussing the retcons and DDD on commited the worst. Chi/Union Cross was completely unneccessary and at first Nomura said wasn't even suppose to be canon. Then he changed that too. I'm sure just to make a buck and get more people to play while we all wait for KH3.It's why I refuse to play it. But even so as a fan I stayed. If he ruins KH3 too well I just can't keep doing that to myself..

 

I thought Infinity War had a lot of other hater's too? I know I saw a lot of people complaining at least. Also, yes I agree with you 100% on KH but also Nomura's track record leads me to believe this is gonna be bad :/

I agree about X chi/Union X, I don't even know why they made that, as it's holding important story/lore behind it in a paywall situation, and as much as several things in that interests me such as the Master of Masters, the Foretelers, and the black box, that could've been put all into KH3 as flashbacks or as a Reverse Rebirth-type of thing after KH3 is beaten, but making a game that into a gacha-type game is baffling and disgusting, and would've preferred that non-canon. Also, even though I was fine with the retcons I mentioned, I don't know why they were made to begin with, and with X chi/Union X existing, KH3, even though I'm looking forward to it, is most likely going to have story references from Union X in it with things from Marluxia, with people being forced to play a mobile game to get answers/back-story for things in KH3 like that. I hope the next saga doesn't have as many games as the current saga has, because even I'm not sure if I'm willing to keep up, even if it ends up having a better main antagonist and lore. 

 

Sorry for my rant, but even I have my limits, and micro-transactions is one of them.

Edited by KHLegendIII

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Just now, KHLegendIII said:

I agree about X chi/Union X, I don't even know why they made that, as it's holding important story/lore behind it in a paywall situation, and as much as several things in that interests me such as the Master of Masters, the Foretelers, and the black box, that could've been put all into KH3 as flashbacks or as a Reverse Rebirth-type of thing after KH3 is beaten, but making a game that into a gacha-type game is baffling and disgusting, and would've preferred that non-canon. Also, even though I was fine with the retcons I mentioned, I don't know why they were made to begin with, and with X chi/Union X existing, KH3, even though I'm looking forward to it, is most likely going to have story references from Union X in it with things from Marluxia, with people being forced to play a mobile game. I hope the next saga doesn't have as many games as the current saga has, because even I'm not sure if I'm willing to keep up, even if it ends up having a better main antagonist and lore. 

 

Sorry for my rant, but even I have my limits, and micro-transactions is one of them.

I consider Union Cross the black sheap of the family. It's forced to be canon which is so questionable they had to make lore for it to make sense in canon and make it important for KH3 but now important information is locked behinf certain doors that most people don't bother looking up. Imagine that you have to read 3 Canon novels written by three different authors to understand KH3 better but still need to pay for every chapter + they can retcon everything in existence or make the strangest lore additions like Maleficent time travelling.

Sorry for my own personal rant but yeah I get how you feel like XD

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4 minutes ago, KHLegendIII said:

I agree about X chi/Union X, I don't even know why they made that, as it's holding important story/lore behind it in a paywall situation, and as much as several things in that interests me such as the Master of Masters, the Foretelers, and the black box, that could've been put all into KH3 as flashbacks or as a Reverse Rebirth-type of thing after KH3 is beaten, but making a game that into a gacha-type game is baffling and disgusting, and would've preferred that non-canon. Also, even though I was fine with the retcons I mentioned, I don't know why they were made to begin with, and with X chi/Union X existing, KH3, even though I'm looking forward to it, is most likely going to have story references from Union X in it with things from Marluxia, with people being forced to play a mobile game to get answers/back-story for things in KH3 like that. I hope the next saga doesn't have as many games as the current saga has, because even I'm not sure if I'm willing to keep up, even if it ends up having a better main antagonist and lore. 

 

Sorry for my rant, but even I have my limits, and micro-transactions is one of them.

I am more annoyed at the POH situation.   It just seems like Nomura is casting them aside to make way for newer Disney movies.   I hope KH3 explains why the Organization is going after the POHs again and why there might be a new set of seven POHs instead of the usual six we have in the franchise and Kairi's questionable status of still being a POH along with being a keyblade wielder. 

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22 minutes ago, AwesomeKHfan said:

I consider Union Cross the black sheap of the family. It's forced to be canon which is so questionable they had to make lore for it to make sense in canon and make it important for KH3 but now important information is locked behinf certain doors that most people don't bother looking up. Imagine that you have to read 3 Canon novels written by three different authors to understand KH3 better but still need to pay for every chapter + they can retcon everything in existence or make the strangest lore additions like Maleficent time travelling.

Sorry for my own personal rant but yeah I get how you feel like XD

Yeah, and another thing thing to add, the Keyblade War itself was something I was really wanting to see, but I wasn't expecting them to put it in a browser/mobile game, and when the time for it came, the Keyblade War itself was shoved to the sideline in favor of the avatar character, a very bad idea considering the overarching storyline which never had OCs until X chi/Union X came in, and didn't show the Keyblade War, just showing the OC fighting Foretellers and not showing the X-Blade and outcome of the war itself as well as the effects left me, to be frank, very disappointed as the Keyblade War was one thing I was really wanting to see ever since I played Birth by Sleep, as well as the X-Blade, and was even more disappointed that it was put into a mobile game when they could've placed it as an actual console game or as a second story-line in KH3 after beating it in the vein of Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Torna The Golden Country, but they went the route of making it a mobile game and not even showing the entire thing was a big let down of something that made me more interested in KH's story-line as it was the thing that started it all, that's one lesson learned to be cautious of what I see.

 

Sorry about that, that ended up a big post again, just expressing some of the disappointments I have towards this series, I really like the KH series, but even I don't like a lot of the directions it goes in like X chi/Union X.

Edited by KHLegendIII

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44 minutes ago, AwesomeKHfan said:

I  agree with everything here and somehow I look forward to it though probably cause my investment but what I wanna say is that Nomura also breaks the tension and immersion if he keeps bringing everyone back.

I get why he does that THE ULTIMATE FINAL BATTLE EXPIERENCE blablabla I get it but if you bring everyone back AGAIN than what tension is there if we know they can be brought back at anytime?

Xion is gone but don't worry she be back playing the puppet.

Axel is gone but don't worry he is back helping the heroes and will suffer again.

Roxas the most unfortunte person in the franchise is back honestly I don't know what to say XD

I'm optimistic (Please don't taker it away I'm hardcore pessimist so this is an unique expierence for me XD) but if Nomura decides after all of this to not give any of the characters a good ending or atleast a decent one I might just consider everything after Kingdom Hearts 2 non canon and quite the series. Everything after 2 was making the characters suffer, retcon or open ended so they could return in KH3.

 

You wanna know the best part... After Dream Drop Distance Nomura changed the Time travel rules in the MMO by ''Darkness'' meeting Maleficent for some reason. Tetsuya Nomura had 6 years the time to work on Kingdom Hearts 3 and making us believe this is how Time Travel works... To only change it later cause whatever reason.

I don't mind them bringing people back and even some retcons aren't so bad if they are done right and not overused and abused. But this is exactly what Nomura does wrong. He over abuses this and there is some very poor writing that literally serves no purpose and does not enriche the plot. I know that I wasn't expecting a perfectly happy ending and unicorns pooping sparkles and glitter but I think some characters deserve a happy or peaceful resolution at this point and ending things for them doom and gloom will not add any positive aspects or depth, just pure disappointment. For me this especially includes Lea and ( unpopular opinion here) Terra. Terra really got screwed getting his body stolen and totally misundestood by fans. All the trio in BBS made mistakes but I think if anyone is to blame it's Eraqus bc he should've known better all along from the get go but that's another rant lol Time travel to me always sucks except Dr. Who. I think Dr. Who does it right.

 

34 minutes ago, KHLegendIII said:

I agree about X chi/Union X, I don't even know why they made that, as it's holding important story/lore behind it in a paywall situation, and as much as several things in that interests me such as the Master of Masters, the Foretelers, and the black box, that could've been put all into KH3 as flashbacks or as a Reverse Rebirth-type of thing after KH3 is beaten, but making a game that into a gacha-type game is baffling and disgusting, and would've preferred that non-canon. Also, even though I was fine with the retcons I mentioned, I don't know why they were made to begin with, and with X chi/Union X existing, KH3, even though I'm looking forward to it, is most likely going to have story references from Union X in it with things from Marluxia, with people being forced to play a mobile game to get answers/back-story for things in KH3 like that. I hope the next saga doesn't have as many games as the current saga has, because even I'm not sure if I'm willing to keep up, even if it ends up having a better main antagonist and lore. 

 

Sorry for my rant, but even I have my limits, and micro-transactions is one of them.

I don't mind the rant - I agree with you and I myself have been exercising my KH demons in this thread hahaha! 

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10 minutes ago, HarLea Quinn said:

I don't mind them bringing people back and even some retcons aren't so bad if they are done right and not overused and abused. But this is exactly what Nomura does wrong. He over abuses this and there is some very poor writing that literally serves no purpose and does not enriche the plot. I know that I wasn't expecting a perfectly happy ending and unicorns pooping sparkles and glitter but I think some characters deserve a happy or peaceful resolution at this point and ending things for them doom and gloom will not add any positive aspects or depth, just pure disappointment. For me this especially includes Lea and ( unpopular opinion here) Terra. Terra really got screwed getting his body stolen and totally misundestood by fans. All the trio in BBS made mistakes but I think if anyone is to blame it's Eraqus bc he should've known better all along from the get go but that's another rant lol Time travel to me always sucks except Dr. Who. I think Dr. Who does it right.

 

I don't mind the rant - I agree with you and I myself have been exercising my KH demons in this thread hahaha! 

If I could like your comment I would but my likes have been spend today:(

I don't like Terra but yeah you are right he deserves much better after everything he went through! and Eraqus has a extreme dogmatic view on the light if you ask me. ''Darkness is our foe'' or ''It must be destroyed'' without question. He never bothered taking away the armor of Ventus (Gosh I wonder how he escaped his home) and attacked the boy and Terra later. I get his emotional state but dear God and don't get me started- that is a rant for another time:)

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There is so many characters but some of them get discarded or go unresolved.   Like the Restoration Committee, the decade long gap between KH1 and BBS, the POHs, and the story updates for UX going unfinished and dragged on. 

 

If UX was supposed to be the progenitor of everything in the KH universe then how was the role of POH given out,  how does one become and then lose the status of POH, what happened to the OC, does the events of UX take place before KH, what happened to the Dandelions, how was the X Blade forged, how did Ven become Xehanort's apprentice, and so much more?

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Really great trailer! Just some quick hot takes:

-That Sora scream! I'm broken!
-I think Saix is talking to Zexion/Ienzo. The body is too big to be Roxas or Xion, but it's too small to be anyone else, if that makes sense.
-I think Xion is pointing the Keyblade at Lea. Too many things pointing to her being a Seeker.
-I'm not disappointed by the Disney world count (it's really good), but I AM definitely confused by it. It's a great variety, but something just seems... missing? I honestly don't know how to explain it.
-I probably sound like a spoiled fan, but I WILL be disappointed if there are no FF characters in KH3.
-I thought Nomura said they wouldn't show final bosses for the worlds, because I feel like I just saw a few of them lol
-I can't believe they made me fell bad for Donald dying lol
-The members at the beginning looked like Vexen, Marluxia, Larxene, Demyx, and Luxord.
-Playable Riku is cool. I'm sure there will be more.
-Someone is biting the big one, and I honestly don't know who it could be.
-I could totally see the Graveyard fight being mid-game. Everyone being taken out of commission doesn't make sense for the ending.
-KH3's story has so many plates spinning that I just can't fathom how this is going to be organized.

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51 minutes ago, HarLea Quinn said:

I don't mind them bringing people back and even some retcons aren't so bad if they are done right and not overused and abused. But this is exactly what Nomura does wrong. He over abuses this and there is some very poor writing that literally serves no purpose and does not enriche the plot. I know that I wasn't expecting a perfectly happy ending and unicorns pooping sparkles and glitter but I think some characters deserve a happy or peaceful resolution at this point and ending things for them doom and gloom will not add any positive aspects or depth, just pure disappointment. For me this especially includes Lea and ( unpopular opinion here) Terra. Terra really got screwed getting his body stolen and totally misundestood by fans. All the trio in BBS made mistakes but I think if anyone is to blame it's Eraqus bc he should've known better all along from the get go but that's another rant lol Time travel to me always sucks except Dr. Who. I think Dr. Who does it right.

Let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to defend the Godawful writing in this game, just analyse it.

 

It's clear to me that Nomura cannot write the details or the character development of a story, he only works with vague stylistic ideas. Which makes sense to me because of his background as an artist.

Yes, one can say Nomura had Days and BBS all thought out by the time KH2 released because of the secret endings of 1&2, but they would be wrong. He had these cool visuals planned out, and maybe a vague story but he definitely didn't know how to tie it together. Which you can start to see in BBS through the whole keyblades inheritance shenanigans occurring when before we were told keyblades chose the wielder, and you can really see in full force in all its shithousery through DDD and Ux.

The biggest indicator of Nomura prioritising visuals over story is in 0.2 with the mickeys shorts thing. Imo the man can't write a cohesive storyline for toffee, but what he can do, and does frequently, is invoke raw feelings with his writing. When he's writing is sincere and the feelings that come across are honest, that's nomura at his best.

Also I agree with you about Terra, he wasn't stupid just misguided enough and felt pushed away by his father figure, and unfortunately enough that landed him in Xehanort. #LetTerraBeHappyYouCowards

 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, 2 quid is good said:

Let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to defend the Godawful writing in this game, just analyse it.

 

It's clear to me that Nomura cannot write the details or the character development of a story, he only works with vague stylistic ideas. Which makes sense to me because of his background as an artist.

Yes, one can say Nomura had Days and BBS all thought out by the time KH2 released because of the secret endings of 1&2, but they would be wrong. He had these cool visuals planned out, and maybe a vague story but he definitely didn't know how to tie it together. Which you can start to see in BBS through the whole keyblades inheritance shenanigans occurring when before we were told keyblades chose the wielder, and you can really see in full force in all its shithousery through DDD and Ux.

The biggest indicator of Nomura prioritising visuals over story is in 0.2 with the mickeys shorts thing. Imo the man can't write a cohesive storyline for toffee, but what he can do, and does frequently, is invoke raw feelings with his writing. When he's writing is sincere and the feelings that come across are honest, that's nomura at his best.

Also I agree with you about Terra, he wasn't stupid just misguided enough and felt pushed away by his father figure, and unfortunately enough that landed him in Xehanort. #LetTerraBeHappyYouCowards

This probably explains his writing best. Even with the very messy plots, I think a lot of individual scenes are very well done and can be impactful. I think Nomura might be one that thinks of his conclusions first and thinks about how exactly we get there later.

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3 minutes ago, Tyranto Rex said:

This probably explains his writing best. Even with the very messy plots, I think a lot of individual scenes are very well done and can be impactful. I think Nomura might be one that thinks of his conclusions first and thinks about how exactly we get there later.

Very succinct way of putting it, thanks!

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7 minutes ago, 2 quid is good said:

Let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to defend the Godawful writing in this game, just analyse it.

 

It's clear to me that Nomura cannot write the details or the character development of a story, he only works with vague stylistic ideas. Which makes sense to me because of his background as an artist.

Yes, one can say Nomura had Days and BBS all thought out by the time KH2 released because of the secret endings of 1&2, but they would be wrong. He had these cool visuals planned out, and maybe a vague story but he definitely didn't know how to tie it together. Which you can start to see in BBS through the whole keyblades inheritance shenanigans occurring when before we were told keyblades chose the wielder, and you can really see in full force in all its shithousery through DDD and Ux.

The biggest indicator of Nomura prioritising visuals over story is in 0.2 with the mickeys shorts thing. Imo the man can't write a cohesive storyline for toffee, but what he can do, and does frequently, is invoke raw feelings with his writing. When he's writing is sincere and the feelings that come across are honest, that's nomura at his best.

Also I agree with you about Terra, he wasn't stupid just misguided enough and felt pushed away by his father figure, and unfortunately enough that landed him in Xehanort. #LetTerraBeHappyYouCowards

 

 

 

 

 

Nomura stated in many previous interviews he wrote this as he went. What I wonder is, if he realizes how awful he is at doing so? Is he aware? He's admitted to knowing some fans think it's hard to comprehend and follow but it's unclear if he gets why ( and I do get all the story- too well  lol)  I suppose in some cases if you are a good story teller you can get away with this well. But he's not. I do think you are spot on about tapping into emotions 100%. KH was the first and only video game series that elicited emotions from me and the reason why I became such a huge fan.

As for Terra, we also don't see it from the view of someone that doesn't know that everyone he comes in contact with and helps that's a villain is a villain. We ( the player) know this from the start. He doesn't, and when he does figure out what's up he's like "Yo, I'm out" lol When he falls to darkness it was from despair and from realization of what's happened and being manipulated and lied to- not from being power hungry or dark. He didn't think he was good enough so he needed more power. He was manipulated from the start to think this and Eraqus should've known from the start bc he knew Xehanort and his history and he should've known that Terra didn't really fail the MoM and what Xehanort was up to. Ohhhhhh the rant I have about Eraqus being the true idiot in BBS that could've stopped this all from the start.

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5 minutes ago, HarLea Quinn said:

Nomura stated in many previous interviews he wrote this as he went. What I wonder is, if he realizes how awful he is at doing so? Is he aware? He's admitted to knowing some fans think it's hard to comprehend and follow but it's unclear if he gets why ( and I do get all the story- too well  lol)  I suppose in some cases if you are a good story teller you can get away with this well. But he's not. I do think you are spot on about tapping into emotions 100%. KH was the first and only video game series that elicited emotions from me and the reason why I became such a huge fan.

As for Terra, we also don't see it from the view of someone that doesn't know that everyone he comes in contact with and helps that's a villain is a villain. We ( the player) know this from the start. He doesn't, and when he does figure out what's up he's like "Yo, I'm out" lol When he falls to darkness it was from despair and from realization of what's happened and being manipulated and lied to- not from being power hungry or dark. He didn't think he was good enough so he needed more power. He was manipulated from the start to think this and Eraqus should've known from the start bc he knew Xehanort and his history and he should've known that Terra didn't really fail the MoM and what Xehanort was up to. Ohhhhhh the rant I have about Eraqus being the true idiot in BBS that could've stopped this all from the start.

Yep, yep, yep. Eraqus is truly the embodiment of "the tyranny of light".

Waiiiit. Shit I just had a thought, what if Eraqus being such a light fanatic pushes Xehanort I've rthe edge in their youth?!?

 

AHHHH I NEED THIS GAME NOW

 

ALSO QUOTAAAA I'LL LIKE THIS TOMORROW

 

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Just now, ITzDarthLordRevan said:

I WENT TO SLEEP AND WAKE UP TO SEE THIS?! It was released early?!

Yeah, there's a comment on the fb post in which Nomura says he moved up schedule. 

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You know what I just clocked? This is it. This is the last jump fest trailer for KH3 ever.

Everything that's happened so far, and is happening, is happening for the last time.

 

It's making me feel a little empty inside...

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To be honest i'm not going to complain too much if Nomura writes things in a way that leaves a bad taste in the mouth, because at the end of the day KH is his story and ultimately it's his vision. But I do have to disagree with the way some things have been handled, I honestly don't understand (I mean it will get explained) why the OXIII rebels i.e. Larxene, Marluxia, Demyx, Vexen etc. are now Xehanort's pawns when a lot of the previous games were focused on their subversion of Xemnas' leadership. Also I think i'm in the minority but I don't really care for bringing Xion back, I found her story emotional but I always thought it was an intrigue gimmick in order to sell Days. I really find the whole Union Cross thing quite frustrating as well, as someone who neither has the time or the resources to play.

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7 minutes ago, DemyxIsBest said:

To be honest i'm not going to complain too much if Nomura writes things in a way that leaves a bad taste in the mouth, because at the end of the day KH is his story and ultimately it's his vision. But I do have to disagree with the way some things have been handled, I honestly don't understand (I mean it will get explained) why the OXIII rebels i.e. Larxene, Marluxia, Demyx, Vexen etc. are now Xehanort's pawns when a lot of the previous games were focused on their subversion of Xemnas' leadership. Also I think i'm in the minority but I don't really care for bringing Xion back, I found her story emotional but I always thought it was an intrigue gimmick in order to sell Days. I really find the whole Union Cross thing quite frustrating as well, as someone who neither has the time or the resources to play.

I do think it's concerning that KH Union Cross seems to be tying into KH3's story more and more, but at the same time I have faith that Nomura will find a way to weave the important elements of KH Union Cross into KH3 without making it too confusing. Honestly, The plot of KHUX doesn't seem to have much to do with the series as a whole, and the things that are connecting it to KH3 don't seem to be so relevant that people will be completely lost if they haven't played UX. I think these references and inclusions will be more like a "wink wink" to people who played Union Cross, and people who didn't play it will be able to learn about the important bits. Nevertheless, I totally get yor frustration in regards to the whole Union Cross thing.

I also understand your disinterest in Xion's return. I was not a fan of Xion mainly because I found her to be a huge Mary Sue and just kind of an annoying character. I also wasn't a fan of Alyson Stoner's voice acting, personally, which really took away from the character. The only thing I really liked about Xion was how much development Roxas and Axel got as a result of her existence. 

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1 hour ago, 2 quid is good said:

You know what I just clocked? This is it. This is the last jump fest trailer for KH3 ever.

Everything that's happened so far, and is happening, is happening for the last time.

 

It's making me feel a little empty inside...

Yeah I'm kinda sad everything's ending, like I know there are gonna be more games but all the speculation and waiting for events to happen to see if KH3 shows up and either being disappointed it didn't or really excited when it does is coming to an end. Hopefully whatever game comes next is not that far in the future!

53 minutes ago, DemyxIsBest said:

 Also I think i'm in the minority but I don't really care for bringing Xion back, I found her story emotional but I always thought it was an intrigue gimmick in order to sell Days.

 

40 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

I also understand your disinterest in Xion's return. I was not a fan of Xion mainly because I found her to be a huge Mary Sue and just kind of an annoying character. I also wasn't a fan of Alyson Stoner's voice acting, personally, which really took away from the character. The only thing I really liked about Xion was how much development Roxas and Axel got as a result of her existence. 

:( I like Xion. While I agree with some things said (Alyson Stoner voice acting was hit or miss, but honestly that was with most voice acting for the hand held games, and her being kinda gimmicky). I really don't agree with her being a Mary Sue though, mostly cause the term doesn't have a set meaning and can mean anything and has been....really overused lately to say the least. But I dunno, in the broadest since of the term I don't think she cuts it, seeing how she died and was being used as a puppet. Unless you mean her being fan fic-y which....maybe but Kingdom Hearts can be an glorified fan fic at times. ;) (Now I said at times, still love the series though). 

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1 minute ago, Tyranto Rex said:

:( I like Xion. While I agree with some things said (Alyson Stoner voice acting was hit or miss, but honestly that was with most voice acting for the hand held games, and her being kinda gimmicky). I really don't agree with her being a Mary Sue though, mostly cause the term doesn't have a set meaning and can mean anything and has been....really overused lately to say the least. But I dunno, in the broadest since of the term I don't think she cuts it, seeing how she died and was being used as a puppet. Unless you mean her being fan fic-y which....maybe but Kingdom Hearts can be an glorified fan fic at times. ;) (Now I said at times, still love the series though). 

That's fair. I don't want people to get the idea that I think they're wrong for liking Xion. I can understand her appeal, it just doesn't work on me.

I also get why you disagree with me when I say she's a mary sue. I personally found her to be that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean she is. I just found that she didn't really seem to have any flaws, she got super strong REALLY fast (though I know that it's because she was siphoning Roxas' powers), she was kind of the center of like the whole game, and it all just kind of drove me nuts. Even the way she died seemed really mary sue-ish to me. I mean yeah, she died but the way that she died was so different from all the other deaths. She turned to shining crystal and eventually faded away into a sparkling light. It was all kind of corny if you ask me.

Again, this is just my opinion. The Mary Sue guidelines I follow are the ones on the TV Tropes website, but I realize there are a ton of different interpretations. Please don't think I'm trying to force my opinion down your throat. :(

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8 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

That's fair. I don't want people to get the idea that I think they're wrong for liking Xion. I can understand her appeal, it just doesn't work on me.

I also get why you disagree with me when I say she's a mary sue. I personally found her to be that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean she is. I just found that she didn't really seem to have any flaws, she got super strong REALLY fast (though I know that it's because she was siphoning Roxas' powers), she was kind of the center of like the whole game, and it all just kind of drove me nuts. Even the way she died seemed really mary sue-ish to me. I mean yeah, she died but the way that she died was so different from all the other deaths. She turned to shining crystal and eventually faded away into a sparkling light. It was all kind of corny if you ask me.

Again, this is just my opinion. The Mary Sue guidelines I follow are the ones on the TV Tropes website, but I realize there are a ton of different interpretations. Please don't think I'm trying to force my opinion down your throat. :(

That's OK, I do get some of the critisims and I'm not against people not liking her. I don't love all the Kingdom Hearts characters myself. 

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