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2 quid is good

A Hollow Remembrance: The Legacy of Final Fantasy In Kingdom Hearts

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whenever i describe kingdom hearts to someone that doesn't know about it i say "Imagine if cloud cheated on tifa with a disney princess"

so now who am i going to eat ice cream with base sora off for reference? oh yeah and that guy from 8 is here but has a reason to be emo at least un like cloud... 

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8 minutes ago, 2 quid is good said:

I know it feels like I ragged on BBS, but I do love the wayfinder trio. This post was honestly just a kind of history on how we got to where we are now, and unfortunately BBS did contribute to it but in a way that was out of its control.

I do genuinely believe that once KH3 comes out people will love it, purely because we're feeling the disappointment of what has and hasn't been included now.

I relate to this post quite strongly, in fact, I knew of Final Fantasy in better detail than I knew of Kingdom Hearts at first, despite not playing a game at that age except for Revenant Wings.

I think this is the biggest sore point, that the FF inclusion in KH genuinely felt like OC Kingdom Hearts characters, and not including them when they still have stories to be told seems very dismissive at best, and cruel at worst.

and thank you all for reading my giant wall of text XD

Hey. It would've fine even if you didn't like it. I just feel like I'm in between a rock and a hard place everytime the fandom has a discussion like this since I've seen debates like this get pretty ugly and don't usually get involved. But, yeah. The PSP did give Birth By Sleep some limitations and it was really probably where Osaka team first got their start in the KH series. (Unless I'm wrong. Am I?)

I'm hoping that a lot of people enjoy it still as well and I hope this community at least does find some peace with each other in the end even though I probably won't be here often and will stay pretty quiet unless I want to express my opinions.

Anyways, thank you for writing this. Even if everyone may not agree with everything said, it was an interesting read nonetheless and I enjoyed it. You're pretty good at writing these kind of things.

 

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Aren't most of the FF characters that we've seen designed by Nomura?   Also,  would like to have seen what happened with Leon and the others.  Their tragic past with the Heartless takeover of Radiant Gardens would serve a purpose in vilifying Xehanort further.  I would love to see the FF fight against the true Organization XIII and maybe some flashbacks to the actual invasion.

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1 hour ago, ienzo628 said:

Aren't most of the FF characters that we've seen designed by Nomura?   Also,  would like to have seen what happened with Leon and the others.  Their tragic past with the Heartless takeover of Radiant Gardens would serve a purpose in vilifying Xehanort further.  I would love to see the FF fight against the true Organization XIII and maybe some flashbacks to the actual invasion.

Yeah, I think that in order to get non-Nomura FF characters, they have to talk to those creators in square(or whoever else to get permission), which seems to be a hassle, apparently. Even though talking to another division/person in your own company should not be that hard. In one of the most recent interviews they said that they got more support from Epic games with Unreal 4 than they got with the luminous engine team in their own company.  That's probably another reason why Nomura opted to use his own TWEWY characters in DDD.

As for Radiant Garden, I as well would have liked to see something about the fall. This also could of been a character development opportunity for Kairi, as in the Ansem reports, it's mentioned that sometime around the fall, she was basically thrown into the space-ocean by Apprentice Xehanort. This might still come up in 3, but I would have liked to see Kairi talking with the restoration committee. 

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2 minutes ago, Kittenz said:

Yeah, I think that in order to get non-Nomura FF characters, they have to talk to those creators in square(or whoever else to get permission), which seems to be a hassle, apparently. Even though talking to another division/person in your own company should not be that hard. In one of the most recent interviews they said that they got more support from Epic games with Unreal 4 than they got with the luminous engine team in their own company.  That's probably another reason why Nomura opted to use his own TWEWY characters in DDD.

As for Radiant Garden, I as well would have liked to see something about the fall. This also could of been a character development opportunity for Kairi, as in the Ansem reports, it's mentioned that sometime around the fall, she was basically thrown into the space-ocean by Apprentice Xehanort. This might still come up in 3, but I would have liked to see Kairi talking with the restoration committee. 

I mean, after so many years since KH2, we need some sort of closure for the Restoration Committee.  Kairi's backstory hopefully gets flushed out more just like the Heartless Invasion.  I would think that something so integral to the KH plot would have at least gotten some mention.  Maybe, we won't get the FF crew but a mention would at least do.  Cid was the one that introduced us to the Gummi Ships in KH1, right?

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Let's not forget that squall showing up in kingdom hearts kinda lines up with the end of his own game so, in my opinion, him not being there doesn't add up

 

22 hours ago, ITzDarthLordRevan said:

Me, a legit Birth By Sleep fan that likes to stay as neutral

funny thing for Darth lord Revan to say x D

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19 hours ago, ienzo628 said:

Also,  would like to have seen what happened with Leon and the others.  Their tragic past with the Heartless takeover of Radiant Gardens would serve a purpose in vilifying Xehanort further.  I would love to see the FF fight against the true Organization XIII and maybe some flashbacks to the actual invasion. 

That's a very interesting point and one I hadn't considered yet. There's so much more Nomura could do, so just lazily implying that their stories have ended is blatantly untrue.

16 hours ago, ienzo628 said:

I mean, after so many years since KH2, we need some sort of closure for the Restoration Committee.

 

8 hours ago, teh lazy prince Xylek said:

Let's not forget that squall showing up in kingdom hearts kinda lines up with the end of his own game so, in my opinion, him not being there doesn't add up 

You're both right, it really doesn't add up because there's still a lot left to be told. Even if we stick to the basic plot points we need to see:

Radiant Garden restored.                          

Rinoa and Leon somehow

Cloud and sephiroth, and tifas role in it

Zack (bby pls don't b did)

And whether Leon goes back to being called Squall.

This is all stuff that's been set up for us throughout the games and it seems odd to downplay these loose ends, and this is just the basic stuff!

It's gonna feel weird this time round...

 

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There's just too many gaps that need to be filled in.  We know that Maleficent caused the Heartless Invasion which left the Restoration Committee in Traverse Town.  The Heartless Invasion happened after Xehanort and the other apprentices' experiment went array.  Plus, we don't know how the experiment was carried out, it just turned out that Xehanort regained his memories and turned on Ansem the Wise and the other apprentices.  Maleficent was also acquainted with MX, he got her into kidnapping the POH.  Yet, at the same time she seemed to be kind of at odds with MX's Nobody and probably MX's Heartless.  MX's Heartless did end up stabbing her while possessing Riku in KH1.  In KH2, she wanted Sora to defeat the Organization because they were getting in the way of her controlling her Heartless.

So, everything ties together.  It would be nice to see Maleficent and MX being confronted by the Restoration Committee; seeing how the Organization caused the fall of Radiant Gardens indirectly and Maleficent seemed to weasel her way in and converted the now fallen Radiant Gardens into Hollow Bastion.

It's kind of amazing that after so long, we've never actually gotten a game focused on the Heartless Invasion or the rise of Hollow Bastion.  Maybe, that would be interesting to have a game focused on it since it hasn't been tackled yet.  I mean, we've had games that weren't focused on Sora as a main character before.  But I don't know how I would feel if Nomura created an OC to serve as the main character between the events of KH1 and the creation of Hollow Bastion and that character's disappearance from KH1 being excused as them dying between that nine year gap.  I rather have Squall or at least Cloud be the main character.

Cloud or Squall could be a main character of a KH game, except it would be a younger version of them and the game could explain why Zack and eventually Cloud wound up in Olympus Coliseum?  Though I don't know how the KH community would react to such a game being made.

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11 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

There's just too many gaps that need to be filled in.  We know that Maleficent caused the Heartless Invasion which left the Restoration Committee in Traverse Town.  The Heartless Invasion happened after Xehanort and the other apprentices' experiment went array.  Plus, we don't know how the experiment was carried out, it just turned out that Xehanort regained his memories and turned on Ansem the Wise and the other apprentices.  Maleficent was also acquainted with MX, he got her into kidnapping the POH.  Yet, at the same time she seemed to be kind of at odds with MX's Nobody and probably MX's Heartless.  MX's Heartless did end up stabbing her while possessing Riku in KH1.  In KH2, she wanted Sora to defeat the Organization because they were getting in the way of her controlling her Heartless.

So, everything ties together.  It would be nice to see Maleficent and MX being confronted by the Restoration Committee; seeing how the Organization caused the fall of Radiant Gardens indirectly and Maleficent seemed to weasel her way in and converted the now fallen Radiant Gardens into Hollow Bastion.

It's kind of amazing that after so long, we've never actually gotten a game focused on the Heartless Invasion or the rise of Hollow Bastion.  Maybe, that would be interesting to have a game focused on it since it hasn't been tackled yet.  I mean, we've had games that weren't focused on Sora as a main character before.  But I don't know how I would feel if Nomura created an OC to serve as the main character between the events of KH1 and the creation of Hollow Bastion and that character's disappearance from KH1 being excused as them dying between that nine year gap.  I rather have Squall or at least Cloud be the main character.

Cloud or Squall could be a main character of a KH game, except it would be a younger version of them and the game could explain why Zack and eventually Cloud wound up in Olympus Coliseum?  Though I don't know how the KH community would react to such a game being made.

Kingdom Hearts needs a Keyblade wielder to be a main hero, doesn't it? Every game has had the main character have a Keyblade. Be it a real one or a fake one. The Keyblade unlocks keyholes and slays Heartless to Kingdom Hearts. Squall or Cloud don't have Keyblades, one of the biggest themes of the series. Cloud is also a loner by KH1. That goes against the games message of friendship.

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1 minute ago, SweetYetSalty said:

Kingdom Hearts needs a Keyblade wielder to be a main hero, doesn't it? Every game has had the main character have a Keyblade. Be it a real one or a fake one. The Keyblade unlocks keyholes and slays Heartless to Kingdom Hearts. Squall or Cloud don't have Keyblades, one of the biggest themes of the series. Cloud is also a loner by KH1. That goes against the games message of friendship.

Probably.  Did we ever get any clarification what was up between Cloud and Sephiroth?  Why was Auron dead since he was resurrected by Hades?  Was Cloud in Olympus because Zack went there years ago? 

Maybe, if we do get a prequel for the Heartless Invasion we'll get an OC, but rather that OC is an anthropomorphic Disney-like character or a human FF character.

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2 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

Probably.  Did we ever get any clarification what was up between Cloud and Sephiroth?  Why was Auron dead since he was resurrected by Hades?  Was Cloud in Olympus because Zack went there years ago? 

Maybe, if we do get a prequel for the Heartless Invasion we'll get an OC, but rather that OC is an anthropomorphic Disney-like character or a human FF character.

Cloud and Sephiroth's relationship is vague. He's the embodiment of Cloud's darkness. In Kingdom Heart's terms that could me anything lol. Auron however seems to have a similar fate to what happened to him in Final Fantasy X. When SDG hear a bit of his past through his doll it's implied something similar happened to him in KH the same way it did in FF. I'll be honest, that could be a story worth exploring. Especially if they tie in some of the Organization members in their real person forms. But it's unlikely.

A prequel on the Heartless Invasion sounds like it could have been a part of BBS but they didn't go that route.It would have been cool to see Squall/Leon in his Charlie Brown shirt KH style XD

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2 minutes ago, SweetYetSalty said:

Cloud and Sephiroth's relationship is vague. He's the embodiment of Cloud's darkness. In Kingdom Heart's terms that could me anything lol. Auron however seems to have a similar fate to what happened to him in Final Fantasy X. When SDG hear a bit of his past through his doll it's implied something similar happened to him in KH the same way it did in FF. I'll be honest, that could be a story worth exploring. Especially if they tie in some of the Organization members in their real person forms. But it's unlikely.

A prequel on the Heartless Invasion sounds like it could have been a part of BBS but they didn't go that route.It would have been cool to see Squall/Leon in his Charlie Brown shirt KH style XD

Yeah, there's just so much wasted potential.  I don't know if Nomura would even be willing to re-visit the events of the Heartless Invasion since it would imply using Xehanort and Maleficent.

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1 minute ago, ienzo628 said:

Yeah, there's just so much wasted potential.  I don't know if Nomura would even be willing to re-visit the events of the Heartless Invasion since it would imply using Xehanort and Maleficent.

It might be told in a flashback at some point, maybe. But a game? Probably not. Xehanort is likely done for good after KH3 and they'll be moving on to the next big bad. Maleficent will most likely still be around, but I doubt she'll have much interest in Radiant Garden going forward.

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6 minutes ago, SweetYetSalty said:

It might be told in a flashback at some point, maybe. But a game? Probably not. Xehanort is likely done for good after KH3 and they'll be moving on to the next big bad. Maleficent will most likely still be around, but I doubt she'll have much interest in Radiant Garden going forward.

I just wonder if the FF crew will be in KH3 or if we'll get some flashback of the Heartless Invasion. 

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On 1/10/2019 at 2:00 PM, 2 quid is good said:

Take a look at this interview excerpt from E3 2013:

-- Will we see any new FF characters? Will we get a chance to play as King Mickey?

Nomura: The appearance of FF characters is pending. For a while, the previous titles didn’t have any FF characters, and I think it’s time to include some. I know everyone wants to play as King Mickey, so I will take that into consideration. Of course Sora will be the main character to play; it would be nice if other characters are playable as well.

So they went a playable Riku for KH3 GREAT I was so looking forward to play Riku again and again instead of King Mickey or Kairi I'm happy they made it a secret... But for real though damned Nomura I hope you have more planned than Sora and Riku in KH3 and btw thank you I was searching for this quoto:)

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1 hour ago, AwesomeKHfan said:

So they went a playable Riku for KH3 GREAT I was so looking forward to play Riku again and again instead of King Mickey or Kairi I'm happy they made it a secret... But for real though damned Nomura I hope you have more planned than Sora and Riku in KH3 and btw thank you I was searching for this quoto:)

Your welcome I guess 😅

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12 hours ago, SweetYetSalty said:

Cloud and Sephiroth's relationship is vague. He's the embodiment of Cloud's darkness. In Kingdom Heart's terms that could me anything lol. Auron however seems to have a similar fate to what happened to him in Final Fantasy X. When SDG hear a bit of his past through his doll it's implied something similar happened to him in KH the same way it did in FF. I'll be honest, that could be a story worth exploring. Especially if they tie in some of the Organization members in their real person forms. But it's unlikely.

A prequel on the Heartless Invasion sounds like it could have been a part of BBS but they didn't go that route.It would have been cool to see Squall/Leon in his Charlie Brown shirt KH style XD

Isn't it actual lines from FFX? The kind of stuff he says and his appearance being exactly the same also implies that somehow this is the Auron from FFX. Unlike every other FF character, he actually came from FFX's world.

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KH introduced me to Final Fantasy. One of my favorite things in KH is Leon. Since getting into KH, I've started playing about 4 different FF games.

KH wouldn't be the same without The Restoration Committee. 

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