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The 13th moogle

Opinion on Kairi in KH3

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9 hours ago, sorakm said:
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i'd argue that's pretty much what he's been doing since KH1,coming up with nonsense, it doesn't always makes sense in and of itself but it works in the grand scheme of it all. Same for the POH, and concerning these ones, their sole purpose was to give the 7 lights needed to craft the Xblade, don't know what else he'd add to them in the end, they have pure lights fine, what else? how could he expand of them?

whatever he'd bring up for them would be just another nonsense power that'd feel forced, where at least the power of waking expanded on something we knew not much about and which is much more central to the core story, that being the keyblades and their wielders.

plus the POH as a plot device it's been milked, both in its application and in its ties to Disney worlds.  there's not an infinite number of them either (though he could always make original ones like kairi), and we had them and their worlds in so many titles already, at this point it's milking a dry cow, proof be told it sort of felt flat on its face in KH3, even with the "new" POH as back ups for potential lights for the OrgXIII to use. no one in the game cares for them anymore and even more so as Xehanort's saga's over. their venue was at most accidental, oh anna and the other one are now POHs, count me surprised as if they were going to be useful at some point in KH3.

what i fear is that now that they've established them as such, dunno what he'll do with it.

i personally feel it's time to move on, and even break away from Disney even more, it's not the Disney part that kept people interested other the years, and with how many things Nomura told with this universe, expanding on it like he did, it wouldn't hurt to focus on these stories solely rather than having Disney ones we already know about get intertwined for the sake of keeping the original formula

but hey as for KH separating itself from Disney more, that's really just my personal opinion on the subject matter in the end,

 

 

Spoiler

Well, people play the game for different reasons. Some for the gameplay, others the story or characters, some the Disney aspect. I don't see them getting rid of Disney anytime soon cause that causes the most publicity and adds to the charm. Like 80% of the promotion for KH 3 had to do with it.

The new princesses of heart were really shoved in there though. But I honestly don't think we are done with them yet cause they reintroduced them for a reason.

 

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1 hour ago, Tyranto Rex said:
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Well, people play the game for different reasons. Some for the gameplay, others the story or characters, some the Disney aspect. I don't see them getting rid of Disney anytime soon cause that causes the most publicity and adds to the charm. Like 80% of the promotion for KH 3 had to do with it.

The new princesses of heart were really shoved in there though. But I honestly don't think we are done with them yet cause they reintroduced them for a reason.

 

Spoiler

 

i can respect that people play the game for the Disney part sure, and they can't get rid of Disney completely anyway, both legally and for the reason you stated, but they certainly put in on the side over the years, and i personally hope they keep doing so,i for one can't see the charm in them anymore especially with these new disney movies, and what hooked me in kh was the story of the main character and the ones revolving around him, not reliving the DIsney stories. sure Disney is great to use as a selling point, hell that's what they were looking for at the time, an IP as strong as such, and sure people are enjoying it but if you look around it's not disney parts that kept this game alive and made an impression on people. you stated so yourself, disney in kh, it's a show off. if it was needed back then when kh was brand new,  and if they kept advertising it through disney -which makes sense why wouldn't they, everyone knows these movies- i dare to affirm this is not why KH3 sold over 5M so far...but i digress there.

 

that they were yes,i agree, and that just makes me hope nomura will just let them be for now on, cause they were basically shown just for the sake of giving the worlds a reason to be in the overall Xehanort story in KH3. that's how uninteresting they became

that's opiniated yes but i don't think it'd be interesting as a future plot point to go AGAIN for the POHs, sure let Kairi still be one and hold on to the pure light, all while being a keyblade wielder, make it be why she'll become strong, perfect, but don't make us run to look for them yet another time. there's only so many times one plot line can be used. KH universe can tell so much more than just that,

 

 

Edited by sorakm

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23 hours ago, sorakm said:
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i can respect that people play the game for the Disney part sure, and they can't get rid of Disney completely anyway, both legally and for the reason you stated, but they certainly put in on the side over the years, and i personally hope they keep doing so,i for one can't see the charm in them anymore especially with these new disney movies, and what hooked me in kh was the story of the main character and the ones revolving around him, not reliving the DIsney stories. sure Disney is great to use as a selling point, hell that's what they were looking for at the time, an IP as strong as such, and sure people are enjoying it but if you look around it's not disney parts that kept this game alive and made an impression on people. you stated so yourself, disney in kh, it's a show off. if it was needed back then when kh was brand new,  and if they kept advertising it through disney -which makes sense why wouldn't they, everyone knows these movies- i dare to affirm this is not why KH3 sold over 5M so far...but i digress there.

 

that they were yes,i agree, and that just makes me hope nomura will just let them be for now on, cause they were basically shown just for the sake of giving the worlds a reason to be in the overall Xehanort story in KH3. that's how uninteresting they became

that's opiniated yes but i don't think it'd be interesting as a future plot point to go AGAIN for the POHs, sure let Kairi still be one and hold on to the pure light, all while being a keyblade wielder, make it be why she'll become strong, perfect, but don't make us run to look for them yet another time. there's only so many times one plot line can be used. KH universe can tell so much more than just that,

 

 

Do you think it would be a good idea for Nomura to bring in other Disney characters that have rarely been used like Mortimer Mouse, Pete's wife and daughter, Peg and Pistol, Mickey Mouse's nieces and nephews, Pluto's son, Max Goof, Roxanne, PJ, Ludwig von Drake, and Donald Duck's sister?  I think way too many Disney characters get ignored in favor of Sora and Xehanort.  But I don't know if Nomura could bank off of early Disney and 90s Disney.  I mean, what would he do with all of them?  Sure he could answer some questions like what happened to Goofy's wife/Max's mom while having Mortimer Mouse trying to overthrow King Mickey's kingdom just to win Minnie over.

Edited by ienzo628

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I agree with practically all that's been said on the topic, but let's not forget the other KH girls and their treatment in this game.

Spoiler

Aqua - wtf was that??? You expect me to believe that she can get done by vanitas so easily after spending around 12/13 years in the RoD? Like damn. At least she was still a badass for most of it but I didn't expect her character to regress like that.

Xion - literally came out of nowhere. We have no idea whether she's a replica of the original xion, the actual xion from the past, or some other Bullshit. Like fine, I get it you only need to show her face but at least give her a reason to be there?

Namine - her cutscene shouldn't have been skippable. Also there's an inconsistency in her return,but maybe I just need to think it over.

 

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11 hours ago, 2 quid is good said:

I agree with practically all that's been said on the topic, but let's not forget the other KH girls and their treatment in this game.

  KH3 spoilers (Hide contents)

Aqua - wtf was that??? You expect me to believe that she can get done by vanitas so easily after spending around 12/13 years in the RoD? Like damn. At least she was still a badass for most of it but I didn't expect her character to regress like that.

Xion - literally came out of nowhere. We have no idea whether she's a replica of the original xion, the actual xion from the past, or some other Bullshit. Like fine, I get it you only need to show her face but at least give her a reason to be there?

Namine - her cutscene shouldn't have been skippable. Also there's an inconsistency in her return,but maybe I just need to think it over.

 

Spoiler

I honestly have a hard time understanding all the complaints about the characters. I think they did a pretty good job with everyone's character arcs. There are some inconsistencies, but this is Kingdom Hearts so I expected no less. I don't really get what people expected Kairi to be doing. Everyone's talking about her fighting and stuff. It's as if physical skill is the only way to make her a good character. Kairi's character arc was all about her willpower. And that willpower allowed her to basically save everyone when they first failed. Without Kairi, light would've expired for good. No she didn't showcase huge amounts of physical power but neither did Lea and no one's complaining about him. It wouldn't have made sense for her to be on Sora/Riku level after so little time. 

Aqua was only defeated because Vanitas was about to attack Ventus and her reaction was to put herself in harm's way to protect him. She was totally owning Vanitas before that. And it was implied that she hurried to Ventus' side right after she got out of the Realm of Darkness. No time to rest. So of course after 12-13 years of relentless fighting against the heartless and getting her butt kicked by Ansem, Sora and Riku, she would feel a little weak.

I rewatched KH358/2 Days recently, and I realized that they actually teased that Xion would be a vessel back then...Or at least, they seemed to hint at it so I felt like it was properly built-up. Although I totally get why you feel like it came out of nowhere. I'm guessing she got there, like most other Xehanorts, through time travel and her heart was put inside a replica. I didn't feel the need for an explanation tbh, I wasn't really thinking but you're totally right about that.

Naminé's cutscene shouldn't have been skippable indeed and I'm just now realizing that it doesn't make sense for Naminé to have returned before Sora got to Kairi...when Naminé was inside Kairi. Unless they were separated when everyone died?

 

Edited by PrinceNoctis

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Ah yes, Kairi~

Spoiler

What can one say about Kairi? I really, REALLY expected her to be useful in this game and not just serve as motivation for Sora, but Xehanort pretty much explained her worth as such only... I mean ok, I didn't expect her to do something super special awesome since for the most part she was away with Lea, but we are in the graveyard and once again she is about to be attacked and she literally does nothing and someone else had to protect her by taking the blow. Like? Is that the superb training she had? She seemed to use her keyblade once when they were fighting the organisation later, but then what happens? SHE GETS KIDNAPPED. AGAIN. Does Nomura hate Kairi? Is she meant to really do nothing else other than give fuzzy feelings to Sora? The only truly useful thing she did was that Sora didn't disappear and yes, that is a big deal, but damn, is that really it? Namine had like a minute of screentime and she was just as helpful bringing Lingering Will. I wonder if she will ever stop just being a plot element for Sora and maybe actually DO something... It's funny that Kairi only has true value in KHUX~

 

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I wasn't as upset by how Kairi was handled because she got as much attention as the others did.  She shows up for the final battle with the other characters, helps fight the army of darkness with the other characters, is consumed by the storm of darkness just as easily as the other characters are, and was a party member during the final battle like the other characters were.  In addition, she was the one that kept Sora from completely dying and was the one guiding Sora as he saved everyone.  That being said, I can understand the complaints about her being kidnapped again.  However, I wasn't as upset by this because Xehanort was using her as leverage in order to keep Sora fighting.

I think the real reason why we don't see as much of her growth as we would have liked is because of how much had to be fit into this game.  Because of this, we couldn't spend much time on any character other than Sora, Donald, and Goofy.  So I think it's less of a "they aren't properly developing Kairi" problem and more of a "they had to do too much in this game" problem.

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Edited by Dagesh Lene

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On 2/7/2019 at 7:45 PM, PrinceNoctis said:
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Naminé's cutscene shouldn't have been skippable indeed and I'm just now realizing that it doesn't make sense for Naminé to have returned before Sora got to Kairi...when Naminé was inside Kairi. Unless they were separated when everyone died?

 

 

Spoiler

they most likely brought back naminé with the vessel from the riku replica during the final fight and her heart from the data in the alternative Twilight town as implied with roxas by ienzo,

 

 


on topic

Spoiler

 

years of overhyping a character does that to an otherwise pretty satisfying arc for Kairi.

of course they'd kidnap her again, to get sora going, don't blame it on kairi to be sora's interest.... think outside the box of what people would want to see her do and actually what it tells in terms of story. how could she be doing anything more than what she actually did. she trained since the end of KH3D which is literally minutes before KH3's beginning and even if they are in a place where time doesn't count that doesn't change the fact she had virtually very little training. how in the world would her killing it with the keyblade make any sense? it'd feel forced and pathetically sad. people can't seem to appreciate anything more than the flashy stuff nowadays, overshadowing the simple fact that kairi is just as important as the others.

 

 

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I'm going to be of the unpopular opinion, but this was the first game I actually liked Kairi.  I could never stand her in the other games and couldn't wait for her to get out of the scene.  In this game, I was actually enjoying the scenes with Kairi and was upset when-

Spoiler

she got axed by Master Xehanort, which even surprised me that I wanted to now go save her somehow

-considering how much I've never liked her.  I credit my now liking of Kairi probably her new voice actress who also does Xion.  This voice makes Kairi likable, unlike previously where it also sounded like she had a borderline attitude. 

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Personally I'm saddened by what Nomura has done to Kairi's development, hyping her up only for stuff like that to happen again. My concern is that he listened to the more vocal part of the fanbase who seem to dislike her and took that as 'Ok, they want more bromance so I'll give them that then.'

On 2/4/2019 at 2:52 PM, Goyan-Tanuki said:

 

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Oh totally I agree she was so snubbed. He really shouldn't of hyped her up if he was just gonna do this again. I heard people saying that they hope she gets a FFX-2 type game so she gets to finally shine like she should. Or even whatever DLC they're doing better be a Kairi segment.

 

This is basically what I can hope for. C'MON NOMURA, SOME OF US ARE HEAVILY INVESTED IN HER EMOTIONALLY!

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19 hours ago, Javelin434 said:

Personally I'm saddened by what Nomura has done to Kairi's development, hyping her up only for stuff like that to happen again. My concern is that he listened to the more vocal part of the fanbase who seem to dislike her and took that as 'Ok, they want more bromance so I'll give them that then.'

This is basically what I can hope for. C'MON NOMURA, SOME OF US ARE HEAVILY INVESTED IN HER EMOTIONALLY!

Gahhh this would not surprise me if this happened. Again, nothing wrong with bromances and I love Sora and Riku friendship but I ALSO WANNA LOVE KAIRI'S FRIENDSHIP WITH THOSE TWO JUST AS MUCH!

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Im really hoping that this is all elaborate set up for the next KH game to focus on Kairi and have her be the playable character (ala BBS or Days). 

I mean how freaking hyped would people be if after KH3 where we got next to nothing for her and are deeply frustrated the next game gets dropped and we see her and Riku setting off on an adventure to find him and set up the next saga of the series.

That'd be some serious emotional manipulation but you know what, I'd be down for that. I'd love for that to be the case.

We've played as Riku who is now a master and if we ever play as again they would need to make up a very good reasom why he's at lv 1 again. And we've played as Sora multiple times and who is now (spoilers)

I'd honestly even be okay with a BBS style game where you play as all three separately if they didnt want a Kairi only focused follow up game. 

I'd play the heck out of either.

Edited by Fates Chance XIII

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What needs to happen now, everyone if you don't want to see this repeated again. Go to the proper channels, make it known that what happened with Kairi that it wasn't a wise decision to do what was done with her. Just like how Nomura underestimated oversea fans, he needs to understand that Kairi has more investment in her development with the fans that he may of been lead to believe. They still have a chance to correct this, we just need to see to it that our voice gets to them so they understand that it's what we want. All I ask is not to be toxic about it we don't need more of that in this community.

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Spoiler

I was really expecting her to be more useful this time around. Especially since she was training with Lea and stuff. Nomura please let her actually be useful in the next game or give the poor girl a story DLC or something. She really needs the development. We've seen Riku change from this brat to a fullfleshed Keyblade master and that is why I love him so much. You really saw him evolve overtime. Kairi is just still the same. I don't hate her, not at all, but she really hasn't evolved as a character.

 

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On 2/13/2019 at 2:00 AM, sorakm said:
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they most likely brought back naminé with the vessel from the riku replica during the final fight and her heart from the data in the alternative Twilight town as implied with roxas by ienzo,

 

 


on topic

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years of overhyping a character does that to an otherwise pretty satisfying arc for Kairi.

of course they'd kidnap her again, to get sora going, don't blame it on kairi to be sora's interest.... think outside the box of what people would want to see her do and actually what it tells in terms of story. how could she be doing anything more than what she actually did. she trained since the end of KH3D which is literally minutes before KH3's beginning and even if they are in a place where time doesn't count that doesn't change the fact she had virtually very little training. how in the world would her killing it with the keyblade make any sense? it'd feel forced and pathetically sad. people can't seem to appreciate anything more than the flashy stuff nowadays, overshadowing the simple fact that kairi is just as important as the others.

 

 

Spoiler

Excuse me but I call bullshit how can this be considered a satisfying arc for Kairi? Your telling me being treated like shit is satisfying? She didn't grow or change in any meaningful way she's still just a plot device and a love interest to sora and that's it such a great arc 😒 we didn't over hype Kairi I saw your comment about how you didn't get the hype Kairi was hyped up by namora not us we were only responding to what he was giving us , making her a keyblade welder, giving her a secret ending , having her trained and talk about it over and over and over like it was going to Matter but it didn't axel and Kairi could not have been part of the battle and almost nothing would change minus a handful of things, yea Kairi saved sora but ok and ? That's all she does and I'm supposed to be satisfied with that ? All this talk about how she's getting stronger with the keyblade and her only contribution to beating xehanort had nothing to do with her keyblade ....again I'm supposed to be satisfied with that? Her getting kidnapped is a big problem because it makes her " training" irrelevant and pointless Because she got kidnapped anyway but that's satisfying yea ok , nobody was expecting Kairi to pull a hyner and drop kick xehanort into oblivion we were just hoping she would contribute more show the fruits of her labor give her training some payoff but that's not what happened she fought a couple of heartless off screen and was a party member for not even half as long as everyone else and was replaced by a clone of her ( I know xion is actually soras clone but you get what I meant) dies and is resurrected off screen , I Would be happy with her saving sora but I can't because it's the same shit that happened in Kh 1 and 2 being a plot device to help the hero's and villains , kh1 gets kidnapped to help the bad guys saves sora helping the good guys , kh2 gets kidnapped to help the bad guys makes a bridge and stops Riku from running away helping the good guys , and now kh3 saving sora helping the good guys gets kidnapped and is killed to make the x blade helping the bad guys it's the same shit just in reverse but your telling me this is satisfying? I'm sorry but those are some low standards for what's supposed to be a main character and that's the real meat behind the hate with Kairi is that despite being a main character she isn't treated like one she's always this damsel in distress/plot device and namora made it seem he was straying away from that but nope he went and did the one thing fans wanted him not to do and all it did was hurt an already not popular character into one of if not the most hated character in the series how satisfying , it's frustrating how one of the characters who helped make this series what it is is constantly shafted, left behind and basically shat on for no reason at all almost like he has something against her I mean no disrespect but it really annoyed me how you acted like what happened to Kairi wasn't a problem when it is a firetrucking problem other wise people wouldn't be complaining about it but I digress.

 

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On 2/26/2019 at 4:42 AM, The 13th moogle said:
  SPOILERS: Click to reveal

 

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Excuse me but I call bullshit how can this be considered a satisfying arc for Kairi? Your telling me being treated like shit is satisfying? She didn't grow or change in any meaningful way she's still just a plot device and a love interest to sora and that's it such a great arc 😒 we didn't over hype Kairi I saw your comment about how you didn't get the hype Kairi was hyped up by namora not us we were only responding to what he was giving us , making her a keyblade welder, giving her a secret ending , having her trained and talk about it over and over and over like it was going to Matter but it didn't axel and Kairi could not have been part of the battle and almost nothing would change minus a handful of things, yea Kairi saved sora but ok and ? That's all she does and I'm supposed to be satisfied with that ? All this talk about how she's getting stronger with the keyblade and her only contribution to beating xehanort had nothing to do with her keyblade ....again I'm supposed to be satisfied with that? Her getting kidnapped is a big problem because it makes her " training" irrelevant and pointless Because she got kidnapped anyway but that's satisfying yea ok , nobody was expecting Kairi to pull a hyner and drop kick xehanort into oblivion we were just hoping she would contribute more show the fruits of her labor give her training some payoff but that's not what happened she fought a couple of heartless off screen and was a party member for not even half as long as everyone else and was replaced by a clone of her ( I know xion is actually soras clone but you get what I meant) dies and is resurrected off screen , I Would be happy with her saving sora but I can't because it's the same shit that happened in Kh 1 and 2 being a plot device to help the hero's and villains , kh1 gets kidnapped to help the bad guys saves sora helping the good guys , kh2 gets kidnapped to help the bad guys makes a bridge and stops Riku from running away helping the good guys , and now kh3 saving sora helping the good guys gets kidnapped and is killed to make the x blade helping the bad guys it's the same shit just in reverse but your telling me this is satisfying? I'm sorry but those are some low standards for what's supposed to be a main character and that's the real meat behind the hate with Kairi is that despite being a main character she isn't treated like one she's always this damsel in distress/plot device and namora made it seem he was straying away from that but nope he went and did the one thing fans wanted him not to do and all it did was hurt an already not popular character into one of if not the most hated character in the series how satisfying , it's frustrating how one of the characters who helped make this series what it is is constantly shafted, left behind and basically shat on for no reason at all almost like he has something against her I mean no disrespect but it really annoyed me how you acted like what happened to Kairi wasn't a problem when it is a firetrucking problem other wise people wouldn't be complaining about it but I digress.

late answer as i don't really dwel around too much or too long anyway,

Spoiler

 

but.

the more i read these comments the more i kind of feel sorry both for people and creators overall. sure everyone is entitled to their own opinion and sure  everyone takes what they want from something be it a movie, a series, a video game.

 

but for the love of everything that remotely makes sense, what utter nonsense is that,

when was kairi EVER a main character, how do you even consider her a main character and go on describing them as plot device and basically "damsel in distress trope for KH".

at least have some consistency,

people, especially fans -and that's why i ultimately despise this overall tendency to regroup and get crazy over anything as it always gets blown out of proportion, especially on the internet these days- always overestimate and overhype anything that's thrown their way.

 

and then when you get exactly what was announced you find the way to go and  twist things up to the moon and back just so that complain can be formulated, even if that means downplaying anything that could be done or accomplished.

 

kairi was again basically the girl interest, the damsel, the plot device to get sora moving, and even then he was also searching actively for riku just as much back in KH1. she's even left behind at the end, up until kh2 where she has her moments even fighting at the end, all arching back at her importance in kh1 as a princess of heart and such and the fact she freaking brings the HERO back, literally twice.

but yeah she's not shown doing the flashy stuff of having the deeply poorly thought shipping 10y old stuff that's theorized only by fans, so more was needed,

she's now given a keyblade and is a proper wielder, retconning from BBS and even goes into training with axel, fan service intensifies.

despite that they manage to give her some importance still with her arc more or less ending at the paopu fruit scene where she shows her resolve.

kairi isn't about suddenly getting Keyblade Master level of fighting, what nonsense would that be.
might i remind people she's around Sora, RIKU, freaking AQUA VENTUS, MICKEY ffs, what do you want her to do? even axel who has precedents fighting gets his arse beat, WHY FREAKING WHY would KAIRI of all characters be on par with the others and be shown as fighting just as well as everyone else?

that doesn't make any sense, that would be piss poor fan service, "oh yeah she trained so now no she won't roundhouse kick Xehanort but hey you know, let her beat some of organisation XIII because that'll make people happy, to hell with logic"

 

sorry but no, in the future and with her getting better with the keyblade overall i'll expect her to be shown doing better for sure, but for now kairi is in a good place storywise.

she's no longer in the backlines, she showed her resolve and her desire to be more than the girl that waits for sora's return, and despise her not being ready for what was coming she marched on anyway standing next to sora and pals.

that was a nice evolution of the character, and a logic one at that,

don't blame it on anything but yourselves if you all over hyped kairi kicking ass with the keyblade just because of a "secret ending" when we know by now how criptic and unclear those are, and even then, yes the secret ending showed her being called for training and so? that's what she did, that was a way of having her progress, and give a little bit of plot to the players,

 

and for all the ORG XIII knows about sora, you really thought they wouldn't use kairi against him? please.

i'll admit fine maybe don't have her being kidnapped another time but then again that's resolved so quickly it doesn't have the same weight as a plot device as the other times.

 

so no, i disagree. it's just another case of expectations vs reality.

you can be disappointed that's for sure, but you can't ask for things that make no sense.

 

 

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