New Organization 13 and how they all got there (and their fates)

[David Buchwald 20]

Hey fellow KH Fans,

**SPOILERS FOR KH3 BELOW**

Was thinking about the new organization and how everyone got there.  It seems to me many of these members were reconstructed, while time travel was reserved for the members who needed time travel to exist again.  This got me thinking about everyone's current state post KH3, and I decided to make a list with all my thoughts.  Here is what I think, and I'd like approval from the experts on this forum that this is correct?  Otherwise could you please let me know what on this list is incorrect:

NEW ORGANIZATION 13:

** Xigbar, Saix, Larxene, Luxord, Marluxia (along with reserve members Demyx and Vexen) **

How they got there:

These 7 individuals were reconstructed as humans at some point when both their nobodies and heartless were defeated.  As reconstructed humans, they were invited to join the new organization.  Part of the deal was becoming nobodies again.  We also know each and every one of them was given a piece of Xehanort in their hearts because of their yellow eyes.  No time travel was involved with these 7.  No replica bodies were needed for these 7.

Current state (post KH3):

Saix, Larxene, Luxord, Marluxia were defeated by Sora at the end of KH3, and presumably reconstructed (in fact, Sora even tells them they will be reconstructed as humans and a few of them remark at what they will next do as humans.)  We only see one member, Saix, post defeat.  He is reconstructed into human form and can be seen with his friends in Twilight Town.  I have to assume he was reconstructed in Radiant Garden, since this is where he first became a nobody, and somehow found his way to Twilight Town (probably with Gummi Ship technology).  I can't say where Larxene, Luxord, Marluxia ended up... as far as I know it is not currently known where these 3 were when they became nobodies.

Vexen decided to turn to the light side at some point during KH3.  However, during the KH3 ending we see he is no longer a nobody and has been reconstructed as a human, due to his change in eye color and appearance.  I'm not sure how this happened.  Has this been explained?  I'm guessing it's simple and they just used all that Radiant Garden tech, or he just had Sora slash him a few good ones with the ol' keyblade.

Demyx - No clue what his fate is, or if he is still a nobody.  I don't think we know this yet as a community, though I know there are many theories out there **cough**MoM**cough**.  If he is still a nobody, I wonder if he still has yellow eyes.... which brings me to....

Xigbar - The most complicated of the bunch (At least for me). Seemingly still a nobody, and for some reason still has yellow eyes.  Does this mean he still has a piece of Xehanort in him?  After all, even though we now know this is Luxu in disguise, and one of his many forms, we do know for a fact the original form of Braig did not have yellow eyes.  Unless this has nothing to do with Xehanort, and the yellow eyes is just part of his "nobody" look?  Again, thankful for any clarification on this one.  It was hard for me to tell from the battle with Sora if he was actually defeated or not, since he kinda just fell from the roof.  But then his weapons vaporized... so....yeaaa.... (please help). I thought the weapons vanishing meant he was defeated, but it doesn't seem as though he's been reconstructed...

** Ansem, Xemnas, Young Xehanort, Vanitas **

Time Travel (sigh). These 4 were plucked out of their respective times in the KH saga when they were at their peak.  They traveled to the KH3 time period as hearts, so they were given replica bodies to house their hearts.  Except for Young Xehanort possibly, as from my research I understand he has the power to time travel without turning into a heart for whatever reason.  As far as where they are now... they returned to their time periods after being defeated by Sora in KH3.

Side Note / Question: I don't remember the whole thing about them needing replica bodies being mentioned in Dream Drop Distance, the first time Xehanort tried gathering his 13 vessels.  Were these fine details just left out because they weren't worked out yet, or am I just forgetting?  Or maybe they purposely left out the replica thing to be explained in KH3 because it was the method that would eventually bring back some old friends (more on that below).

** Terra-Xehanort **

I'm not entirely sure on this one.  I think he could have used the time travel method as described for the 4 above.  OR, possibly more likely, he is the reconstructed form which came back into existence after Sora defeated both Ansem and Xemnas.  Presumably, he would had to have woken up before the other members in Radiant Garden since he wasn't in the original cutscene we saw of some of the members beginning to wake up. I'm not sure which of these is the correct answer, but would love to know!  Once defeated in KH3, Terra is finally freed from his bonds!

** Dark Riku **

I'll admit it, I'm a little confused on this one.  This is what I originally thought: I thought this was the version of Riku at his worst, during the first Kingdom Hearts, when he is fully possessed and Sora needs to fight him.  I thought he came to KH3 using the time travel method, and his heart was put into the original Riku Replica body (from Chain of Memories).  However, I read somewhere that perhaps no time travel was involved and this was simply a full fledged replica, with no real heart other than a replica heart.  I like my theory better though.

Once defeated in KH3, the replica body is available again for use... however, even though this is the original Riku Replica body from CoM, it is not that original replica heart from that game.  That heart, has actually been hiding out in vanilla Riku this whole time.... anyway, after the defeat, we think that original CoM heart will take his body back, but he chooses not to.  Instead, he decides to save the replica body, so Namine can use it.  Seems a little silly to me, I'm sure Vexen/Even could make Namine a perfectly suitable one, and then they could both exist, but whatever.  Anyway, I'd love confirmation that I'm correct on this one as it's a little weird.

** Xion **

I believe this is another example of time travel from back when Xion was in the original organization (probably her very early days when she just did whatever the organization told her to do).  But for some reason she doesn't really remember Axel and Roxas, and I was under the impression she met them early on during those days?  Anybody have an answer?  Anyway, assuming she is a time traveling heart, and in a replica body that was made specifically for her.

She isn't really defeated during KH3, but rather her heart is awoken, her heart which has been sleeping/stowed away in Sora ever since Days (the game).  At this point her heart leaves Sora and replaces the time traveling heart, or kicks it out, or whatever.  I guess it doesn't really matter, but this is how we get Xion back! 

** Master Xehanort **

I don't really know how he got there, and honestly it doesn't really bother me.  Perhaps he was reconstructed when both Ansem and Xemnas were defeated... but that doesn't explain why he took this form.  I like to believe that he was brought back because it was time to fulfill the prophecy.  It is a bit of Kingdom Hearts magic, but basically the world knew it was time for the 13 darknesses to collide with the 7 lights, so he was summoned back in this form to fulfill the prophecy.  You can't say we haven't dealt with this kind of explanation in the past for KH... and I actually buy it.  After all, this is why he was fine turning himself into a heartless and nobody, because he knew he would be summoned back when the time was right.... or I'm just a fool and he was reconstructed.  You tell me!

BONUS SECTION - NON-ORGANIZATION MEMBERS:

Roxas - Sora's nobody whose heart lives within Sora. He finally awakened in KH3, and his heart was put into a brand new vessel, which was a replica that Vexen/Even constructed specifically for him.

Namine - As described above, she took the original Riku Replica body (Again this makes no sense. You're telling me he had time to make a perfect replica of Roxas but not Namine?? Wouldn't it take the same amount of time it took him to change the appearance of the Riku Replica to look like Namine??)  Anyway, her heart was living inside Kairi, but was released somehow.... not sure but I think maybe when Xehanort killed her in cold blood.

Ventus - His heart has been in Sora's for the longest time, 10 years before the original Kingdom Hearts in fact.  His original body was locked away in The Land of Departure, which was cloaked to become Castle Oblivion.  With some help from Aqua and Venitus, Ventus's heart awoke from Sora and entered into his original body.

 

Thanks so much for all your help and input in getting this list 100% complete and correct.  Much appreciated!

[Mkucherina 84]

I really hope Demyx isn't MoM. That would just be over kill for me. I think that we will see the Demyx and Luxord somebodies when the 5 new union leaders jump into the new worldline (whatever that means). To answer your question about Terranort, Nomura recently stated in an interview that Terranort's body comes from when he was recompleted after Xemnas and Ansem were defeated but his heart was from the past when he fought w/Aqua. How Xion came back will be revealed in the DLC. Dark Riku is the Riku replica from CoM. His heart was taken from the past and put into a replica, but was stopped by the heart/soul of the Riku replica after he became good (post defeat). In KH3 they said Master Xehanort exists outside of time and is a portal (tbh I still don't really get what the means).

[David Buchwald 20]

5 hours ago, Mkucherina said:

I really hope Demyx isn't MoM. That would just be over kill for me. I think that we will see the Demyx and Luxord somebodies when the 5 new union leaders jump into the new worldline (whatever that means). To answer your question about Terranort, Nomura recently stated in an interview that Terranort's body comes from when he was recompleted after Xemnas and Ansem were defeated but his heart was from the past when he fought w/Aqua. How Xion came back will be revealed in the DLC. Dark Riku is the Riku replica from CoM. His heart was taken from the past and put into a replica, but was stopped by the heart/soul of the Riku replica after he became good (post defeat). In KH3 they said Master Xehanort exists outside of time and is a portal (tbh I still don't really get what the means).

Thanks for this response!  Happy to see I was more or less correct with Terranort and Dark Riku.  And as for Master Xehanort, yea the explanation doesn't make sense but he's one of the few characters I don't really care.  I don't really need an explanation of how the all powerful villain of the entire series comes back, as much as I like explanations for how all the other characters come and go.  He came back because Sora needed to fight the main villain in the final installment of his saga   

I agree with you, and hope Demyx isn't MoM.  I think that might be too much, but still I could see it happening.  I am hopeful we will get more on him and Luxord when we finally get story updates for KHUx (remember when Nomura said a year ago the story was going to begin to move forward at an alarmingly fast pace now? Sigh).  

As for the whole jumping worldlines thing you mention from the secret reports. Yea. I really really hope this isn't alternate realities, similar to how the multiverse works in DC comics (multiple earths). I don't think KH Series can handle that amidst all the other nonsense   I never thought of the world in KHUx as an alternate reality or world.  I always viewed the characters as if they are in the same world where the keyblade war happened.  The 5 new union leaders used Data to mask the truth from the Dandelions.  That's how I always kinda viewed it.  For example, in Coded (dammit I can't believe I'm resorting to referencing Coded), they were still in the same world, they just entered into a data world within that world.  So basically the same way I view KHUx.  I think they are still in the same world as the original X game (browser game) but the Dandelions are all living out their days in this data world within that world to hide them from the truth.  Seems the scenes with the new 5 union leaders still take place in the original room in the clock tower that the foretellers used. ....  all this to say I still don't know what the hell Luxu means in the secret reports  "The virus has begun a strange undertaking: a reckless plot to allow the Five to escape into another worldline. Surely such a thing can't be possible? We're talking about the same trick that allowed the Dandelions to transfer to other worldlines after the Keyblade War."  Could he simply be talking about time travel?  Not the time travel we know from DDD and KH3, but a different kind that allows them to travel with their bodies intact and forward in time, without the need of the rule we got before of having to have a version of yourself when you travel?  Maybe in story updates we will see these guys learn to time travel like that into the future, but then something goes wrong and they lose their memories when they do it?  Or maybe he is talking about worldlines in the sense of the Disney worlds Dandelions visit in KHUx, but the problem with that explanation is that the Disney Worlds were happening even before the keyblade war.  Or maybe he's talking about other worlds in general?  Maybe he means after the keyblade war, as in this is when the world split into all the different worlds we see in the rest of the KH series?  and maybe he means they found a way to travel those worlds like with gummis or portals or whatever? Ugh, my head hurts.  Dammit Nomura.  Worldlines! Ugh.

[Mkucherina 84]

16 hours ago, David Buchwald said:

As for the whole jumping worldlines thing you mention from the secret reports. Yea. I really really hope this isn't alternate realities, similar to how the multiverse works in DC comics (multiple earths). I don't think KH Series can handle that amidst all the other nonsense   I never thought of the world in KHUx as an alternate reality or world.  I always viewed the characters as if they are in the same world where the keyblade war happened.  The 5 new union leaders used Data to mask the truth from the Dandelions.  That's how I always kinda viewed it.  For example, in Coded (dammit I can't believe I'm resorting to referencing Coded), they were still in the same world, they just entered into a data world within that world.  So basically the same way I view KHUx.  I think they are still in the same world as the original X game (browser game) but the Dandelions are all living out their days in this data world within that world to hide them from the truth.  Seems the scenes with the new 5 union leaders still take place in the original room in the clock tower that the foretellers used. ....  all this to say I still don't know what the hell Luxu means in the secret reports  "The virus has begun a strange undertaking: a reckless plot to allow the Five to escape into another worldline. Surely such a thing can't be possible? We're talking about the same trick that allowed the Dandelions to transfer to other worldlines after the Keyblade War."  Could he simply be talking about time travel?  Not the time travel we know from DDD and KH3, but a different kind that allows them to travel with their bodies intact and forward in time, without the need of the rule we got before of having to have a version of yourself when you travel?  Maybe in story updates we will see these guys learn to time travel like that into the future, but then something goes wrong and they lose their memories when they do it?  Or maybe he is talking about worldlines in the sense of the Disney worlds Dandelions visit in KHUx, but the problem with that explanation is that the Disney Worlds were happening even before the keyblade war.  Or maybe he's talking about other worlds in general?  Maybe he means after the keyblade war, as in this is when the world split into all the different worlds we see in the rest of the KH series?  and maybe he means they found a way to travel those worlds like with gummis or portals or whatever? Ugh, my head hurts.  Dammit Nomura.  Worldlines! Ugh.

Yea this is something that confused me too. I think when they're talking about worldlines, theyre just talking about another data world. My theory is that the fortellers and MoM disappeared in the first place because they went to the future. While we know that the rules of time travel allow people to only travel backwards rather than forwards, there may be some trick used to get the heart into the future. We know that Maleficent traveled back in time but eventually returned to the events in KH2 so maybe they did something similar? I have a feeling Nomura might try to do alternate realities but I too agree that would be a mistake and would make all of this even more confusing than it already is. My theory for what will happen next is that the next title will be a side game featuring young Xehanort and Eraqus as they take their "pilgrimage" and become masters. I would also like a side game that features some of the other keyblade wielders that were barely in KH3. I would love to see a Terra redemption arc, a Kairi and Axel game, and most of all a Ven and Roxas game. To be perfectly honest, I would be completely ok if Sora disappeared for good and Roxas became the new main character (but that's just me because our boi only got like 5 min of screen time in KH3). I just hope that these don't get dragged out the same amount of time that all the games between 2 and 3 did. Here's to the future!

[David Buchwald 20]

Yes, only time will tell the true meaning behind this worldlines nonsense.

I would love to see any of those side games honestly.  The future seems bright with KH.  And wide open!  Excited to see where it goes.

[Ultima Spark 753]

Dark Riku (Riku Replica mid-CoM), Xion (start of Days), and Terranort were all pulled from the past.

Ultimania section concering the new Org.

On 4/1/2019 at 10:22 PM, David Buchwald said:

Namine - As described above, she took the original Riku Replica body (Again this makes no sense. You're telling me he had time to make a perfect replica of Roxas but not Namine?? Wouldn't it take the same amount of time it took him to change the appearance of the Riku Replica to look like Namine??)

Vexen said he created about 20 replicas (maybe give or take 1, the JP also says "approximately") - 12 are used in the first Scala fight, 6 are used for the time travellers, 2 were original Repliku and original Xion. He only had time to make one new body (the one for Roxas) in secret ("One was all he could manage for the time being.") before the battle went down. Also, he and Saix had to be very careful about their plan, else it would've been blown wide open and that would go down very badly not only for the conspirators (who probably would've been punished by Xemnas) but also Sora and co.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Ultima Spark