Web
Analytics Made Easy - StatCounter
Jump to content
  • Sign Up
setsugekka

More MoM Answers Than You Even Want

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Leslie's fiancée seems like she was trying to tell Leslie something and Strelitzia was trying to tell Lauriam something in his dream. AAHH, that word again! DREAM! 

Oh, speaking of Lauriam's dream... That whole part reminded me of something else. The field of flowers where he talks with Strelitzia looked like the Farplane from FFX.

LUAXXDs.jpg

PkNCasV.jpg

idk if you know anything about FFX, but the Farplane is where souls go when they die.

I thought about this quite a bit when I played FFX-2 a while ago. After Yuna acquires the Songstress dressphere (an outfit) which originally belonged to a girl named Lenne, she has a dream where she and Tidus are running away from some soldiers. The dream is actually the ancient memory of Lenne and Shuyin. Later, in the Farplane, Yuna meets the soul of Shuyin who speaks to her as if she's Lenne. Yuna can't tell whether her feelings are Lenne's or her own. Shuyin looks exactly like Tidus, and Yuna looks a lot like Lenne, but it's never explained why... Although there is one character who suggests that Yuna and Lenne could be the same somehow.

Quote

Maechen: One thousand years ago, here in Zanarkand, I shook the hand of another young lady.
Yuna: It was Lenne.
Maechen: Correct. It was quite a strange feeling, shaking your hand.
Maechen: Two different people from two distant times, with exactly the same handshake.

Following that, Yuna says "So people really are connected."

Apparently the concept of the Spirals from Type-0 originated with FFX. For what it's worth, KH1, FFX-2, and the FNC were conceptualized at the same time. Uhhh... I'll also just make a note here that FFVII and FFX are apparently the same world/universe.

Oh yeah, and in that video with Shuyin, Gippal shows up. He's another guy who looks similar to Demyx and has the same Japanese voice actor. Is this guy just... in every universe?? tbh, he's the reason I played FFX-2. I didn't expect to run into all this other stuff.

I also feel like there are a lot of similarities between Sora & Kairi and Tidus & Yuna, especially with the way Sora and Tidus both disappear and then the girls go looking for them... I just...?? Do I write this one off as being similar because it's made by the same people? Or is there something going on here?? I feel like it could definitely have something to do with FF7R, but... Could it ALSO be related to KH? I mean, if we decide that these things ARE connected, there's a lot more to do with dreams in FFX. There's a whole ancient dream city.

Who knows. But I recommend playing FFX-2 anyway. Because it's really good and has a lot of mysterious KH vibes. lol

There are also some scenes in Type-0 and Agito where Ace dreams about seeing Izana again after he died. The dream he has in Type-0 seems to be a memory, which is interesting because the Crystals are supposed to erase their memories. In Agito, his dream seems like more than just a memory. It's like Izana actually came to talk to him in a dream. (Reminder that Izana is the one Strelitzia seems to correspond with.)

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Hmm...I was thinking it could be a path resulting in breaking a nature taboo, because breaking a nature taboo is forbidden. Then the price would be banishment from the Realm of Light perhaps. But I'm not sure how that would apply to Xehanort. When and how was he breaking one? Perhaps trying to reset the World is forbidden? I don't know lol. 

Well, I'm glad I asked because that's pretty different from what I was thinking. I took "forbidden path" to mean a path that would lead Sora to discovering the truth about the world/reality, sort of like how Ephemer was doing his own thing with his investigations. Entering the clock tower was forbidden and many of the things he wanted to know were secrets. So, idk... Maybe, just in a very general sense, Xehanort  meant that he and Sora were heading in the same direction.

I wonder if it has something to do with being "unchained." Maybe it's like... going against destiny? Breaking away from its "chains"? That sounds like it could be described as "forbidden."

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

...What does misusing the power of waking have to do with dreams??? He says, "And now you're at it again?"

I assume he was talking about the part of DDD when Riku had to rescue Sora with the Power of Waking. Remember, there was that one part where Xigbar told Sora that they were luring him into a deeper sleep, so there was a point where he was going into dreams inside of dreams. So I think YMX was being like "Hey, don't you remember what happened that time? You know that this is like that, right? And you're just going to do it anyway?" Sora's attitude is that he survived it before, so he can do it again.

4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Also, Young Xehanort said that Sora...already paid the price??? And 'it' lies at the bottom of the abyss??? Wait, what does 'it' refer to? When did Sora pay the price? 

Maybe he said that because he understands that Sora already made up his mind? Or... Maybe he's talking to/about Ephemer... ? 

4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

(Also something confusing about this scene: the worlds Sora traverses to save the GoL aren't real, right(the absence of people in them would be very off if it were)? Or are they in a timeless state? How in the world did Young Xehanort enter it?)

If we're going to question this, then I'd also like to know what was going on with Toy Box. Could be the same sort of thing.

4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

The world choice of this scene was San Fransokyo. San Fransokyo is a world with a lot of skyscrapers. And it is also part-Tokyo. Both of these attributes coincidentally applies to Quadratum...or is it not a coincidence?? 

Wow, nice catch. I hadn't thought about it, but that makes sense. It was probably chosen for its visual similarity to Quadratum. It fits too well to be a coincidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Oh, speaking of Lauriam's dream... That whole part reminded me of something else. The field of flowers where he talks with Strelitzia looked like the Farplane from FFX.

Ooh interesting...

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I took "forbidden path" to mean a path that would lead Sora to discovering the truth about the world/reality, sort of like how Ephemer was doing his own thing with his investigations. Entering the clock tower was forbidden and many of the things he wanted to know were secrets. So, idk... Maybe, just in a very general sense, Xehanort  meant that he and Sora were heading in the same direction.

I wonder if it has something to do with being "unchained." Maybe it's like... going against destiny? Breaking away from its "chains"? That sounds like it could be described as "forbidden."

That would make sense. I wonder if Ava is also on that path. She tried to change what was in the Book of Prophecies, going against fate. And then after the Keyblade War ended, she just...vanished. 

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I assume he was talking about the part of DDD when Riku had to rescue Sora with the Power of Waking. Remember, there was that one part where Xigbar told Sora that they were luring him into a deeper sleep, so there was a point where he was going into dreams inside of dreams. So I think YMX was being like "Hey, don't you remember what happened that time? You know that this is like that, right? And you're just going to do it anyway?" Sora's attitude is that he survived it before, so he can do it again.

Ah I see. I better go watch those DDD scenes again and find out more about dreams(I actually haven't finished playing DDD yet lol).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

That would make sense. I wonder if Ava is also on that path. She tried to change what was in the Book of Prophecies, going against fate. And then after the Keyblade War ended, she just...vanished. 

I think we can consider Brain part of that group, too. It seems like he lived a normal life and died. lol THAT'S WEIRD, THOUGH, ISN'T IT? Who gets to live a normal life in this series?? I wouldn't be surprised if he comes back as a new character. But for now, it appears that he had a normal life.

I hope Ava went all Knight of Etro like Lightning and now she's just the lone resident of Quadratum.

We've got some thoughts that seem like they could be connected; Quadratum, becoming "unchained"/defying destiny, and reincarnation. We probably don't even need to figure out the intricacies for now. As long as these things ARE connected, then it gives us the possibility that Ava could have ended up in Quadratum.

You know how Xehanort said that Sora was in a place where their voices couldn't reach him? Well, Xigbar made it sound like he didn't intentionally leave Ava out. So, what if he tried to summon her like the Foretellers, but he just wasn't able to reach her?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I think we can consider Brain part of that group, too. It seems like he lived a normal life and died. lol THAT'S WEIRD, THOUGH, ISN'T IT? Who gets to live a normal life in this series?? I wouldn't be surprised if he comes back as a new character. But for now, it appears that he had a normal life.

I know right? He lived a normal life. Wait, would that even be considered normal in KH? lol

When Luxu was given his role, the MoM congratulated him for training a worthy apprentice and passing the No Name down. But in the KHIII Secret Reports Luxu said he passed the No Name down to one of the Union Leaders. Huh? Was that Union Leader(which has to be either Ephemer or Brain, I'm thinking it's Brain) his apprentice? 

I think Luxu is going to use the same method that he used to summon the Foretellers to summon Brain back. In the Secret Reports he said 'I will meet the Five once more', which to me sounds very determined.

17 hours ago, setsugekka said:

We've got some thoughts that seem like they could be connected; Quadratum, becoming "unchained"/defying destiny, and reincarnation. We probably don't even need to figure out the intricacies for now. As long as these things ARE connected, then it gives us the possibility that Ava could have ended up in Quadratum

Yeah, I find that likely. Where else could she have gone? She certainly didn't die.

17 hours ago, setsugekka said:

You know how Xehanort said that Sora was in a place where their voices couldn't reach him? Well, Xigbar made it sound like he didn't intentionally leave Ava out. So, what if he tried to summon her like the Foretellers, but he just wasn't able to reach her?

The way he said it: "I guess Ava didn't make it after all." It sounds like he expected that but wasn't sure. But then the next lines confuse me.

Quote

Gula: Meaning what?
Luxu: I told her, clear as day, what it is I had to do.
Gula: And is that why you decided to exclude her?
Luxu: As if. Ava had her own mission. And she carried it out.

Why did he reply to Gula like that? Hmm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Double OKP said:

When Luxu was given his role, the MoM congratulated him for training a worthy apprentice and passing the No Name down. But in the KHIII Secret Reports Luxu said he passed the No Name down to one of the Union Leaders. Huh? Was that Union Leader(which has to be either Ephemer or Brain, I'm thinking it's Brain) his apprentice? 

It must've been Brain. At first, I thought it seemed impossible for Luxu to have trained Brain if Brain left in the pod, BUT... Since Luxu did eventually end up in the same world line that Brain was sent to, I guess he really could've become the one who taught him. I mean, I assume Luxu ended up in that world line. Probably. Seems likely. I feel like he probably went everywhere. (The thought of him unknowingly being in the same world line as the MoM at some point makes me scream, though. The MoM went to talk to YMX and then he didn't even stop to say hi to Luxu? Ugh, that's too rude.)

5 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I think Luxu is going to use the same method that he used to summon the Foretellers to summon Brain back. In the Secret Reports he said 'I will meet the Five once more', which to me sounds very determined.

I'm not sure that that's what that means. Originally, I thought that line was talking about the Foretellers, but I think you might be right about it referring to the dandelion leaders. Interesting observation there.

I think he was talking about how he would inevitably see them again in his travels because he was bound to find the world line(s) they were sent to. It doesn't necessarily mean that he would see them all together at the same time, though.

5 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Why did he reply to Gula like that? Hmm...

I'm not sure if this helps, but I wanted to see it, so here's that part again, translated literally...

Quote

Xigbar: Hm. As expected, Ava's not here. (Or "Ava's missing.")
Gula: "As expected"?
Xigbar: I told her what my role was, though.
Gula: Is that supposed to be why she's the only one you decided not to summon?
Xigbar: No. Ava (must have) fulfilled her own role.

I feel like "I guess Ava didn't make it after all" could tell a whole different story. ("As expected" could also be "after all" or "like I figured." I think it's up to you to determine whether that means that he was positive that she'd show up or not. I feel like he was a little surprised, even if it's what he ultimately expected.)

I haven't forgotten that the word for "role" is the same as "Focus"... Always thinkin' about that...

The last line makes it sound like her fulfilling her role is the reason why she's not there.

The MoM told her, "The mission I give you may become the hope of avoiding the destiny of annihilation." That's the "You might just be the only hope of keeping light from expiring" line. But better.

Well, we know that she was successful. But at WHAT COST?

Tonight's mood is: Ira Final Fantasy.

4rXdps6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, setsugekka said:

It must've been Brain. At first, I thought it seemed impossible for Luxu to have trained Brain if Brain left in the pod, BUT... Since Luxu did eventually end up in the same world line that Brain was sent to, I guess he really could've become the one who taught him. I mean, I assume Luxu ended up in that world line. Probably. Seems likely. I feel like he probably went everywhere. (The thought of him unknowingly being in the same world line as the MoM at some point makes me scream, though. The MoM went to talk to YMX and then he didn't even stop to say hi to Luxu? Ugh, that's too rude.)

I'm not sure that that's what that means. Originally, I thought that line was talking about the Foretellers, but I think you might be right about it referring to the dandelion leaders. Interesting observation there.

I also think it's Brain. Ephemer wielding No Name...that doesn't fit right lol

Some people think 'the ancient Keyblade Masters crossing over into another world' refer to the Foretellers being in Quadratum. But honestly, that would be strange if that were true. Them being in the same realm as the MoM and not seeing him atop that building? 
Yeah, how come the MoM didn't visit Luxu? ?

In the Secret Reports Luxu says:

Quote

Amid the chaos, I bequeathed my Keyblade to one of the Union leaders, just as the Master instructed. I watched as the Five were sent to another worldline—at no small cost—ensuring the line of Keyblade wielders will live on. And now, Keybladeless, I must depart this land to fulfill my final task. This means casting my own body aside and sojourning my heart in vessel after vessel—as many as it takes. But I will continue gazing upon each passing era, one unto the next. In time, be it years or decades, centuries or millennia, I will meet the Five once more.

Here, it's really clear(at least to me) that 'the Five' refers to the Union Leaders. 

1 hour ago, setsugekka said:

I think he was talking about how he would inevitably see them again in his travels because he was bound to find the world line(s) they were sent to. It doesn't necessarily mean that he would see them all together at the same time, though.

I guess it could be that. But it also could sound like he was determined. I don't know lol

1 hour ago, setsugekka said:

I'm not sure if this helps, but I wanted to see it, so here's that part again, translated literally...

Ah interesting...that makes more sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Double OKP said:

But honestly, that would be strange if that were true. Them being in the same realm as the MoM and not seeing him atop that building? 

Again, until we actually see him there, I don't think he was there at the same time as Yozora and Sora. I think the secret ending was just artistically indicating that the MoM would be there, not that he was there already. However, I think that your point inadvertently assists this point. Although I don't personally understand it, the things Yen Sid said at the end of KHMoM did make it sound like the Foretellers were in Quadratum. It doesn't make sense to me, so I want to think that's wrong, but let's assume it's right for a second. If they were there, then it's unlikely that the MoM was there yet.

I wonder when the fight between Yozora and Sora was supposed to take place, though. If any of them were there, it must not have been at the same time, otherwise they would've seen that fight taking place, right? I guess it's a big city and they might've been in another part of the city, so they wouldn't have been in distance to see the fight, but... This is a story, not real life. lol

We can't prove that the MoM and Foretellers had been there at all yet, though. Yen Sid's words are the strongest indication we have that at least the Foretellers had been. The secret ending is too abstract for me to rely on.

If Quadratum is a timeless realm like Valhalla, then I guess that would clear up a part of the confusion I had. If they went there, no time would have passed for them while Luxu could have been experiencing thousands of years on the outside. That would explain why it looked like they hadn't aged at all and why they acted like they had just seen Luxu.

But then, this also raises the question of how Xigbar was able to summon them. A second ago, I was thinking that he couldn't reach Ava if she was in Quadratum. If the others were there, how could he reach them but not her? lol See, that's contradictory. Maybe that's just a thing he can do and she's missing for another reason.

However, I was wondering if it's possible that she just... ignored him. The others might've gone when they were summoned, but she might've chosen to stay there. If she's the one who told Yozora to save Sora, then this fits. The word they use for "summon" is the same as to "call out" for someone, which makes it sound like she might've had the choice to answer or not. I'm not sure if that explains the ominousness of Xigbar's last line, though, unless it simply sounded more dramatic than was necessary. Maybe he was saying that this was also part of her role.

You know, there's also the chance that something happened to her that we can't predict at all because we're currently lacking the necessary information. We might've already figured it out with one of these things or we're actually lightyears away. There are definitely things we're missing.

In my wildest dreams, I like to imagine that she's the one who finds Demyx. I just really wanna see Ava go crazy and seek revenge. It's what she deserves. lol They're both missing! It could happen! Sounds like a great opportunity for him to realize who he is.

11 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Here, it's really clear(at least to me) that 'the Five' refers to the Union Leaders. 

Yeah, I read that part again and that's why I agree. Sounds right.

12 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Ah interesting...that makes more sense.

I kept reading his one line ("I told her what my role was, though.") last night, wondering how I should translate his "dakedo na" and I just realized it should probably come out sounding like "All I did was tell her what my role was." I knew in my heart, yet I couldn't put it into words. lol I was technically correct, but it's like he was trying to make it sound not so bad.

So yeah, just a little more clarity. Kinda adds to my impression that she might've chosen to ignore him because that moment where he told her his role made her distrust him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Again, until we actually see him there, I don't think he was there at the same time as Yozora and Sora. I think the secret ending was just artistically indicating that the MoM would be there, not that he was there already. However, I think that your point inadvertently assists this point. Although I don't personally understand it, the things Yen Sid said at the end of KHMoM did make it sound like the Foretellers were in Quadratum. It doesn't make sense to me, so I want to think that's wrong, but let's assume it's right for a second. If they were there, then it's unlikely that the MoM was there yet.

I wonder when the fight between Yozora and Sora was supposed to take place, though. If any of them were there, it must not have been at the same time, otherwise they would've seen that fight taking place, right? I guess it's a big city and they might've been in another part of the city, so they wouldn't have been in distance to see the fight, but... This is a story, not real life. lol

Hmm...but the Yozora boss fight takes place in Yozora's dream. There's that dream realm(the Final World where Yozora's dream took place) and Quadratum. I don't see how or why the Foretellers or the MoM would be in his dream. It's possible they were/will be in the 'real' one(ahem...this is supposed to be unreality so I technically can't say 'real' lol).

I think 'the ancient Keyblade Masters crossing over into another world' is referring to the Dandelions and Nomura's just making it this way so the modern KH crew can figure out about the lost past. Them being the Foretellers doesn't really make sense.

5 hours ago, setsugekka said:

But then, this also raises the question of how Xigbar was able to summon them. A second ago, I was thinking that he couldn't reach Ava if she was in Quadratum. If the others were there, how could he reach them but not her? lol See, that's contradictory. Maybe that's just a thing he can do and she's missing for another reason.

However, I was wondering if it's possible that she just... ignored him. The others might've gone when they were summoned, but she might've chosen to stay there. If she's the one who told Yozora to save Sora, then this fits. The word they use for "summon" is the same as to "call out" for someone, which makes it sound like she might've had the choice to answer or not. I'm not sure if that explains the ominousness of Xigbar's last line, though, unless it simply sounded more dramatic than was necessary. Maybe he was saying that this was also part of her role.

You know, there's also the chance that something happened to her that we can't predict at all because we're currently lacking the necessary information. We might've already figured it out with one of these things or we're actually lightyears away. There are definitely things we're missing.

Hmm...I'm not sure why she would want to ignore him. Wouldn't she want to inform the others who the traitor is? But it's possible she wouldn't know that the others would be summoned.

Yeah, the Case of Ava is still under the shadows. I really want to know what happened to her.

The dust that appears when the Foretellers are summoned really reminds me of the dust that appears in Avengers: Infinity War when the 'blip' happened. The people just vanished, then when everyone was brought back in Avengers: Endgame, they had no sense of what was going on. I don't think it's the same case but...is it just a coincidence? That would be cool if it were a Disney element.

I was thinking about the 'Realm of Emptiness'. Emptiness is the same thing as nothingness, right? But isn't there already a Realm of Nothingness in the Realm Between?

Edited by Double OKP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, setsugekka said:

In my wildest dreams, I like to imagine that she's the one who finds Demyx. I just really wanna see Ava go crazy and seek revenge. It's what she deserves. lol They're both missing! It could happen! Sounds like a great opportunity for him to realize who he is.

That would be so awesome lol. Though what perplexes me is: why would her chess piece be on the side of the Lost Masters if she would want revenge on the ones she's standing with?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Hmm...but the Yozora boss fight takes place in Yozora's dream.

I just got real confused for a hot second, but I think I understand where the confusion's coming from... It sounds like you're thinking that there's more than one Quadratum; a "real" one and one in Yozora's dreams. But I think that the one that Sora and Yozora were in IS the "real" one and the way to get there is by dreaming or dying or whatever, since it seems like Quadratum must exist somewhere along that precarious border.

Dang, you could be right, though. I hadn't even considered that, and I'm not sure if there's any way I can say that the way you interpreted it is wrong. lol QUADRATUM IS SO CONFUSING.

22 hours ago, Double OKP said:

The dust that appears when the Foretellers are summoned really reminds me of the dust that appears in Avengers: Infinity War when the 'blip' happened. The people just vanished, then when everyone was brought back in Avengers: Endgame, they had no sense of what was going on. I don't think it's the same case but...is it just a coincidence? That would be cool if it were a Disney element.

Believe it or not, I haven't watched a single Avengers movie. lol But that would be cool. A lot of people want Marvel in KH now. If we find out that they'll be in the next game, I'll have to watch all the movies.

23 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Hmm...I'm not sure why she would want to ignore him. Wouldn't she want to inform the others who the traitor is? But it's possible she wouldn't know that the others would be summoned.

Because she doesn't like him. lol Okay, well... I think we can at least assume that she doesn't trust him. If I were her, I'd be like "Why's that guy calling me? Some kind of trap? Uhhh... No thanks." And yeah, idk if she would've known that the others had been called. They arrived at the same time, but they came to the keyblade graveyard from different portals. *shrugs* What Gula said does make it sound like they were called individually.

18 hours ago, Double OKP said:

That would be so awesome lol. Though what perplexes me is: why would her chess piece be on the side of the Lost Masters if she would want revenge on the ones she's standing with?

I can't imagine her getting back together with them or even being comfortable as part of the group without seeking answers from the one who was responsible for everything. When she talked to Ephemer, you could see how obedient she was to the MoM's teachings, but there was already a part of her that wanted to question things. Her encounter with Luxu was probably like the last straw. She accused him of twisting the MoM's intentions, but she probably also realized that the MoM hadn't given her the full truth and worried about the possibility that Luxu was right. Her decisions to go against destiny seem like an act of rebellion to me, like she couldn't just sit there anymore and pretend like things were the way she wanted them to be.

As things are now, she can't go back with them and be the same Ava she was in the beginning. There's too much tension. *picks Demyx up and rattles him around* Come on, we know you've got MoM memories in there! Tell the girl what she wants to know!

Basically what I want is like that part from the novel where Jack tells Deuce the unexpectedly horrible-sounding things he's really thinking but then also proves that he's still the same person she thought he was despite that. It's easy to trust someone like Demyx when he seems so non-threatening on the surface.

But it also opens up other interesting avenues..... Like, I imagine he could also be like "So that's why he, er, that's why I did what I did... But I'm a new me! You can't blame me for the stuff that the old me did! I deserve another chance! ?" And Ava being Ava would be like "Well... I guess that's true..." So she gets back together with them, but then she gets to be proven right all over again later when it turns out that Demyx is still just as toxic as he was as the MoM. *nods to self*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Dang, you could be right, though. I hadn't even considered that, and I'm not sure if there's any way I can say that the way you interpreted it is wrong. lol QUADRATUM IS SO CONFUSING.

Like, Yozora wakes up in a car [from his dream], which is being driven in a city, which could be Quadratum...but it could also be not...?? AAHH why is Quadratum so confusing???

10 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Believe it or not, I haven't watched a single Avengers movie. lol But that would be cool. A lot of people want Marvel in KH now. If we find out that they'll be in the next game, I'll have to watch all the movies.

? Reminds me of myself who hasn't played a single Final Fantasy game(ahem...except that one time I played the beginning of the original FFVII) ?.

The Marvel movies are okay and...they're kinda dumb lol(in my opinion). I personally do NOT want Marvel in KH. Nor live-action movies. It would just  be...really weird. 

20 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Because she doesn't like him. lol Okay, well... I think we can at least assume that she doesn't trust him. If I were her, I'd be like "Why's that guy calling me? Some kind of trap? Uhhh... No thanks." And yeah, idk if she would've known that the others had been called. They arrived at the same time, but they came to the keyblade graveyard from different portals. *shrugs* What Gula said does make it sound like they were called individually.

When the Foretellers are summoned, they're not even surprised by each other. They're just chill and walk to Luxu lol. And Ira says, "Did you summon us back?" He says 'us', which could sound like they were summoned together...but I'm probably wrong. Ava not trusting Luxu and her not knowing about the others seems like the most likely situation.

29 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

I can't imagine her getting back together with them or even being comfortable as part of the group without seeking answers from the one who was responsible for everything. When she talked to Ephemer, you could see how obedient she was to the MoM's teachings, but there was already a part of her that wanted to question things. Her encounter with Luxu was probably like the last straw. She accused him of twisting the MoM's intentions, but she probably also realized that the MoM hadn't given her the full truth and worried about the possibility that Luxu was right. Her decisions to go against destiny seem like an act of rebellion to me, like she couldn't just sit there anymore and pretend like things were the way she wanted them to be.

Yeah, there's also that.

33 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

But it also opens up other interesting avenues..... Like, I imagine he could also be like "So that's why he, er, that's why I did what I did... But I'm a new me! You can't blame me for the stuff that the old me did! I deserve another chance! ?" And Ava being Ava would be like "Well... I guess that's true..." So she gets back together with them, but then she gets to be proven right all over again later when it turns out that Demyx is still just as toxic as he was as the MoM. *nods to self*

? I'm so excited to see Demyx again. I really hope he's in the next KH installation.

Oh yeah, in the KHIII Novel Vol. 3(the one that came out recently), Sora says this in the scene where Ephemer helps him:

Spoiler
Quote

I don't know who that guy was, but I bet he's the one who called all these Keyblades into the fight. I can feel the emotions in each and every one of them - these must be the wills of the ancient Keyblade wielders.

...I knew it. I was feeling the hearts of Keyblade wielders from ancient times.

We're all connected...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

The Marvel movies are okay and...they're kinda dumb lol(in my opinion). I personally do NOT want Marvel in KH. Nor live-action movies. It would just  be...really weird. 

Ha, that's interesting. I have mixed feelings about any worlds based on live-action things, but the Caribbean ended up being one of my favorite worlds in KH3. (Well, the world. I still feel kinda weird about seeing Donald Duck next to Johnny Depp.) Maybe they could use the animated versions of the characters instead? But the movies are what most people would be familiar with, so they'd probably want to use the real people...... That would fit with things ironically looking more realistic in the fictional world, too... lol Oh no.

2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

? I'm so excited to see Demyx again. I really hope he's in the next KH installation.

Well, if he's the MoM, then he BETTER BE. I wanna know what he knows. BREAK TIME'S OVER, BUDDY.

1 hour ago, Double OKP said:

Oh yeah, in the KHIII Novel Vol. 3(the one that came out recently), Sora says this in the scene where Ephemer helps him:

Hmm... Reminds me of that scene with Yuna again where she says "So people really are connected." I never know what to make of these novels. They're written so carefully and manage to say just enough without really saying anything. lol

I was just thinking about another thing Xehanort said in Dark Road... "I never really thought about who I was. Not until I began to wonder who others were." All I know is that it would be weird if Xehanort was the only one who was some kind of reincarnation or whatever, especially with a line like this. ? 

I already love wherever this is going...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, setsugekka said:

Ha, that's interesting. I have mixed feelings about any worlds based on live-action things, but the Caribbean ended up being one of my favorite worlds in KH3. (Well, the world. I still feel kinda weird about seeing Donald Duck next to Johnny Depp.) Maybe they could use the animated versions of the characters instead? But the movies are what most people would be familiar with, so they'd probably want to use the real people...... That would fit with things ironically looking more realistic in the fictional world, too... lol Oh no.

Yeah, the world is fine but...just seeing Sora, Donald, and Goofy next to a real person is just plain weird. Imagining them next to the Avengers...and if they actually did that, they'd probably use the models from the Marvel games(because they are also Square Enix?) which would look even weirder. No Nomura, please do NOT do that!

1 hour ago, setsugekka said:

I was just thinking about another thing Xehanort said in Dark Road... "I never really thought about who I was. Not until I began to wonder who others were." All I know is that it would be weird if Xehanort was the only one who was some kind of reincarnation or whatever, especially with a line like this. ?

I forgot about that line! Now I find that mysterious...all of Xehanort's Dark Road dialogues are lol. The next episode is called Cruel Clues. I wonder what Xehanort's dialogue will be for that...

A lot of people want Strelitzia to come back. Do you think that's possible or is she going to be permanently dead like Izana? KH has resurrected people before but Strelitzia's case...is significantly different. 
(Speaking of Izana, I read his, Machina, and Rem's stories on the Final Fantasy fandom site. It's so sad!?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/24/2021 at 12:49 AM, Double OKP said:

A lot of people want Strelitzia to come back. Do you think that's possible or is she going to be permanently dead like Izana? KH has resurrected people before but Strelitzia's case...is significantly different. 
(Speaking of Izana, I read his, Machina, and Rem's stories on the Final Fantasy fandom site. It's so sad!?)

Mm, yes, suffering over Izana is the true Type-0 experience.

Okay, let's see......

I don't think she's coming back. I just sat here for like an hour considering the possibilities, but... Here's how I see it...

The idealistic part of me wants to think that this is a FF7R situation where they have the chance to fix all of the tragedies that happened in Type-0. It seems like the real Agito appeared and saved the world. And if I'm right about the Foretellers looking like Class Zero under those masks, then it's like half of Class Zero was rescued in spirit. Awesome. That makes me happy.

BUT... This is still a story. It's probably not just Nomura's fix-it fic. Assuming that the MoM's plan worked the way it was supposed to, he had to treat people like disposable pawns. Strelitzia appears to be one of the casualties of the plan. He would probably argue that he couldn't be blamed for something that Darkness did, but it's not like the MoM did anything to stop all those other kids from getting killed in the war, either. Lauriam basically deserves to yell something like "Who gave you the right to decide?!" Why was it okay to make sure that the Foretellers would be safe but it was okay for Strelitzia to die? If I had the chance to rewrite Type-0 and fix things, of course I'd want to save Class Zero, but what about everyone else...? If the war was truly inevitable, then how could you save everyone?

On that note, I hope that Ava realizes that she shares the blame, too. Her role was literally to decide who deserved to live. That's messed up. lol

Also, this reminds me of how Arecia was the one who supported Ace's decision to ask Izana to join the battle. The Commandant was enraged by the decision because he lost a good soldier for no reason because of Ace's whim. It wasn't a tactical decision. But Arecia allowed it because she wanted to see how it would make Ace grow. To her, it was a mere matter of gains and losses - and her own interest. (Here's that part if you haven't seen it.)

Lauriam probably won't care about how successful the plan was. It could be a miracle that they saved the world, but it cost him his sister for no good reason. If she does come back, it would have to be a looong time from now, otherwise it would eliminate the reason for all of his anger and sadness. If she could be brought back that easily, it would make it seem like the MoM's choices weren't that hard. You could bring back ALL the keyblade wielders who died in the war then.

All I know is that they gotta get their full mileage out of Strelitzia's death before they even think about bringing her back. Personally, I think that Lauriam could benefit from learning to love and appreciate the people who are still with him like Elrena and Ventus. He was totally preoccupied with looking for Strelitzia in the past. It seems like a part of him was still fixated. Did he ever notice how much Elrena cared about him? Hopefully he'll notice. And hopefully it won't turn into a Machina/Rem situation where Lauriam will constantly be living in fear of Elrena dying, too. ?? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, setsugekka said:

And if I'm right about the Foretellers looking like Class Zero under those masks, then it's like half of Class Zero was rescued in spirit.

Really? Interesting...I don't know what Class Zero looks like, but perhaps I'll take a look.

19 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Assuming that the MoM's plan worked the way it was supposed to, he had to treat people like disposable pawns. Strelitzia appears to be one of the casualties of the plan.

If Strelitzia had become a Union Leader, then Ven wouldn't be in the picture. And without Ven, the whole Kingdom Hearts series wouldn't have gone the way it did actually. I wonder if Lauriam can accept that reality.

20 hours ago, setsugekka said:

On that note, I hope that Ava realizes that she shares the blame, too. Her role was literally to decide who deserved to live. That's messed up. lol

Didn't the Foretellers read through the whole Book of Prophecies? Wouldn't Ava know what her role resulted in? When she gave Brain the Book and the paper with the Union Leaders' names, she did say she placed the paper 'on the page their fates were written'. Seems like she would know...right?

20 hours ago, setsugekka said:

To her, it was a mere matter of gains and losses - and her own interest. (Here's that part if you haven't seen it.)

(She sounds so evil lol)

20 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Personally, I think that Lauriam could benefit from learning to love and appreciate the people who are still with him like Elrena and Ventus. He was totally preoccupied with looking for Strelitzia in the past. It seems like a part of him was still fixated. Did he ever notice how much Elrena cared about him? Hopefully he'll notice. And hopefully it won't turn into a Machina/Rem situation where Lauriam will constantly be living in fear of Elrena dying, too. ?? 

I don't know if he'll forgive Ven. Sure, he didn't do anything wrong but.....I guess time will tell! 

He better notice what Elrena has done for him! He really needs to look around and notice the people who've been by his side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Really? Interesting...I don't know what Class Zero looks like, but perhaps I'll take a look.

They're the ones I compared the Foretellers to on the first page of this thread. In Agito, they're all from different classes, so I technically couldn't call them "Class Zero." In Type-0, they're all part of the same class. Those renders look really similar and their personalities fit to a weirdly specific degree, but the thing that actually convinces me the most is their heights. lol Deuce and Eight are REALLY SMALL next to Jack. Trey and Nine are the tallest and Queen is somewhere in between, so seeing them together really feels like looking at the Foretellers.

eg8M89m.jpg

u55twsj.jpg

(Lean - the Luxu one - can't be here because he's from a different school...)

I'd be happy if the Foretellers look more like how Class Zero looked in Agito XIII, though. For some reason, most of the guys ended up with just blond hair in Type-0, but in the Agito XIII art, you can tell that they all have different shades. And Eight's hair is fire engine red instead of brown. lol

VLSou7E.jpg

The other half of the class doesn't seem to match anyone in KH. I kinda hope that characters like them might show up in the MoM's past if we ever get to see his backstory or something. That's FOUR GIRLS... Jeez. They have very strong personalities that would fit with KH. They deserve a second chance, too!

15 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Didn't the Foretellers read through the whole Book of Prophecies? Wouldn't Ava know what her role resulted in? When she gave Brain the Book and the paper with the Union Leaders' names, she did say she placed the paper 'on the page their fates were written'. Seems like she would know...right?

I think that the Book of Prophecies probably didn't say as much as we've always thought. In one of the recent updates, the MoM told Luxu that he didn't even bother looking at the specific things that happen to each person. So I think that the book probably included very broad information, like which worlds would be in the future and who was there and the general story of the things that happen, all of which culminates in the world falling to darkness.

So... I'm not sure what she meant. Without being able to read the book for ourselves, it's a mystery. Maybe the book said something about them that she wanted to avoid happening? Or maybe by "fate", she didn't mean anything especially ominous and was referring to how they would all end up surviving the war and becoming leaders.

In any case, I meant her job of rounding up all the other Dandelions, not just the new leaders. It seems like they were all her own choosing.

15 hours ago, Double OKP said:

(She sounds so evil lol)

Fun facts about her. I think I already mentioned how they call her "Mother" and how "Master of Masters" is abbreviated as "MoM." So that's amusing. Never gets old. I think the MoM occupies her role as the one who works with and against Gala to open Etro's Gate. She's a doctor (a doctor of science) who studies magic. Her office also doubles as her lab. The area her office is located in is called the "Sorcery" in the localization. iirc, it was something like "the Magic Research Division" in Japanese.

4XFtCEO.jpg

Left middle is the final design of her lab. (Right of that is Central Command.) The three images on bottom are old concepts for her lab. (Apparently the bottom right is a weapon storage vault.) I don't really have anything else to add here. I just assume that this is why the MoM is like a magic scientist.

Sorcery would develop new summons. Knowing that the Moogles of Type-0 are summons, it makes me wonder if they're essentially the same as Chirithies. Each class has their own Moogle who's like a headmaster and they all dress up in unique ways.

1imM78L.jpg

You know, like Chirithies.

The MoM seems like what it would be like if Jack took after Arecia and followed in her footsteps...

16 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I don't know if he'll forgive Ven. Sure, he didn't do anything wrong but.....I guess time will tell! 

I don't think Lauriam will forgive him before they leave in the pods, but he'll probably come to terms with it in the future. Marluxia has a soft spot deep down. The old Lauriam is still in there. It was the circumstances that made him act in such twisted and devious ways as a Nobody. And it was raw anger and grief that made him attack Ventus without taking the time to look at the situation from any other perspective. After time has passed, I think he'll see Ventus as another victim like Strelitzia. In the end, they were all taken advantage of. I think he'll understand that. And it'll be sad. And I'll love it. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, setsugekka said:

They're the ones I compared the Foretellers to on the first page of this thread. In Agito, they're all from different classes, so I technically couldn't call them "Class Zero." In Type-0, they're all part of the same class. Those renders look really similar and their personalities fit to a weirdly specific degree, but the thing that actually convinces me the most is their heights. lol Deuce and Eight are REALLY SMALL next to Jack. Trey and Nine are the tallest and Queen is somewhere in between, so seeing them together really feels like looking at the Foretellers.

Oh yeah right! They actually do look like the Foretellers in a way, even from the Agito XIII art. (That's totally Demyx lol) Seeing Ace holding cards reminded me of Luxord.

Speaking of Luxord, I really want to know what the 'wild card' is. Nomura said it could be the key to Sora's survival...but WHAT'S THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN???

It's interesting how the only time we see Invi's scarf not covering her mouth is when she's given her role. What was the purpose for that I wonder...?

6 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I think that the Book of Prophecies probably didn't say as much as we've always thought. In one of the recent updates, the MoM told Luxu that he didn't even bother looking at the specific things that happen to each person. So I think that the book probably included very broad information, like which worlds would be in the future and who was there and the general story of the things that happen, all of which culminates in the world falling to darkness.

I'm really confused about the Book's length. In Back Cover, when Ira or the MoM opens their Book, they always open it to a page with a picture of a Heartless. But there's this one page with the Emblem Heartless emblem...which is smack in the middle of the Book. The Emblem Heartless first appeared in the time when Terra-Xehanort was apprentice to Ansem the Wise, right? Wait...I'm watching the scene where the MoM rips out the Lost Page and...the next page...has a picture of...the Kingdom Key??? Which is also in the middle of the Book...? 

6 hours ago, setsugekka said:

So... I'm not sure what she meant. Without being able to read the book for ourselves, it's a mystery. Maybe the book said something about them that she wanted to avoid happening? Or maybe by "fate", she didn't mean anything especially ominous and was referring to how they would all end up surviving the war and becoming leaders.

In any case, I meant her job of rounding up all the other Dandelions, not just the new leaders. It seems like they were all her own choosing.

Ah I see. Yeah, the Dandelions(excluding the Union Leaders) were Ava's own choosing. Except that the MoM told her to choose wielders with potential (so she was limited in a way). That's totally messed up lol

6 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I think I already mentioned how they call her "Mother" and how "Master of Masters" is abbreviated as "MoM."

She did refer to herself as a 'mother' in that scene with Ace. Interesting...

6 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I don't think Lauriam will forgive him before they leave in the pods, but he'll probably come to terms with it in the future. Marluxia has a soft spot deep down. The old Lauriam is still in there. It was the circumstances that made him act in such twisted and devious ways as a Nobody. And it was raw anger and grief that made him attack Ventus without taking the time to look at the situation from any other perspective. After time has passed, I think he'll see Ventus as another victim like Strelitzia. In the end, they were all taken advantage of. I think he'll understand that. And it'll be sad. And I'll love it. lol

Yeah, definitely. If they bump into each other and Ven hasn't a clue as to who Lauriam is and just acts nice like he always does...? 

So I was recalling the scene of the Yozora boss fight and I just realized(well, it was pretty much smack in front of my face lol) that Sora's Station of Awakening appears. So...wait, does that mean that dream took place in Sora's heart??? 

I went to the back of the KHIII Vol.3 Novel(I've been just skipping ahead and I haven't even finished the second chapter haha) to see if there was anything and there wasn't anything concerning that. But I found this...:

Spoiler
Quote

Sora closed his eyes and braced himself.
When he opened them again, he found himself somewhere he had never seen before. Or...maybe he had. In a dream.
Streets lined with buildings, and buildings lit with neon.
Oh, maybe this is the world of Yozora's game - the one I went into back in Woody's world. Or maybe not...? Everything looks so different.
Man, I'm lost.

 

HUH???!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Seeing Ace holding cards reminded me of Luxord.

Speaking of Luxord, I really want to know what the 'wild card' is. Nomura said it could be the key to Sora's survival...but WHAT'S THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN???

I kept thinking about Luxord whenever I'd look at Ace... I kept trying to figure out if there was a connection anywhere there, but I don't think there is. Some of his moves involve an element of random chance and luck, but gambling doesn't have anything to do with his character. Kinda surprising, tbh... I wouldn't even group him in with other gamblers. He's just... a guy who fights with cards. Luxord has more in common with Setzer from FFVI.

I'm guessing that Luxord is supposed to be the equivalent of Noctis's driver from the original Versus XIII trailer. We never even found out what that guy's name was... I heard somewhere that his design ended up turning into Cor Leonis, but I don't know if that's actually true. I can see a similarity, though.

I think about the wildcard all the time... What could it be...? It's gotta end up having something to do with Luxord, right? ...Maybe not. If Sora whipped it out during his fight with Yozora, that might've helped. Yozora might've looked at it and been like, "Oh, that's one of (Luxord's real name)'s cards. Huh. You must be alright. Sorry for the trouble." sjkghfgk

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

It's interesting how the only time we see Invi's scarf not covering her mouth is when she's given her role. What was the purpose for that I wonder...?

I've wondered about that, too. It could've been for animation purposes, letting her show more expression during an important scene. Or maybe she wears the scarf because she doesn't want people to see the part of her face that her mask can't hide, but she's comfortable enough with the MoM to let him see. *shrug* Whatever the reason, I thought it was cute. ? 

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I'm really confused about the Book's length.

Okay, idk if you've ever heard of this, but in movies/games/advertisement/etc, whenever they show a clock or a watch, unless it's supposed to be at a specific time for a reason, the hands will usually be making a 90 degree angle. It's just more appealing to look at. In the case of advertisements, it clearly shows you what the hands look like. I think that's the case with the book. A book looks more attractive when it's open in the middle. I really think that's all it is. lol

Personally, I'm more interested in the fact that apparently the MoM is a really good artist??? I assume he drew those illustrations himself. Impressive.

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

She did refer to herself as a 'mother' in that scene with Ace. Interesting...

She's Class Zero's adoptive mother. It seems like most of them were abandoned or lost their biological parents to violence/war. (Jack saw his parents get murdered in front of him by burglars. Even if he can't remember them, the incident definitely messed him up. Add that to the list of potential reasons why Demyx hates fighting. There could be so many reasons. I desire... backstory...) Apparently Arecia is the one who gave them their names. The exceptions are Rem Tokimiya and Machina Kunagiri because they aren't her kids. Everybody else has a card-related name. Even Lean was renamed from Lean Hampelmann to Lean Joker. Tohno Mahoroha was renamed Tiz.

Somewhere near the beginning of khx, I recall Chirithy saying that the MoM gave the Foretellers their names. I mean, that makes sense... It would be too much of a coincidence if all these people named after the seven deadly sins ended up in a group together. lol We never found out what Class Zero's real names were, so I unfortunately doubt we'll find out what Luxu's ORIGINAL-original name was...

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I went to the back of the KHIII Vol.3 Novel(I've been just skipping ahead and I haven't even finished the second chapter haha) to see if there was anything and there wasn't anything concerning that. But I found this...:

Whu... Does this mean that Sora was dreaming of Quadratum the same way that Riku was? So the secret ending was a dream for everybody? I feel like that's probably the most likely answer. I just don't know what it meeeeans. lol

Or maybe it's only referring to the time when YMX threw him into the Verum Rex game. Remember, we still haven't figured out what that whole world was in Toy Box. I know it's a stretch, but I think of YMX as being related to dreams as a theme because he made his big debut in DDD, so if that alternate Toy Box world was a dream, then maybe that's why YMX was chosen for that world. Sora says that it (Quadratum) looks different, but that could just be because the version he was thrown into before was a video game. Still a dream, but also a game. A game in a dream.

tbh, it seems pretty fair to assume that Sora would've been able to recognize Quadratum from a dream if he had the same dreams as Riku. I guess I don't think about those two quite enough to have come to that conclusion yet, but it makes sense.

Demyx... You got any dreams you wanna tell us about...? Buddy...?

Speaking of Demyx, is he in that novel? I'd be eternally grateful if you share any tidbits. (He really is KH's most well-kept secret, isn't he? Gosh, that's not suspicious at ALL...... /sarcasm)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I think about the wildcard all the time... What could it be...? It's gotta end up having something to do with Luxord, right? ...Maybe not. If Sora whipped it out during his fight with Yozora, that might've helped. Yozora might've looked at it and been like, "Oh, that's one of (Luxord's real name)'s cards. Huh. You must be alright. Sorry for the trouble." sjkghfgk

Haha, he could've done that.

But that card...it looks the exact same as Luxord's other cards. What's so special about it? I went to Luxord's defeat in the KH novel to see if there was anything...but nothing. On the next page, though, I found that Sora was wondering what Larxene was like as a human ?

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Okay, idk if you've ever heard of this, but in movies/games/advertisement/etc, whenever they show a clock or a watch, unless it's supposed to be at a specific time for a reason, the hands will usually be making a 90 degree angle. It's just more appealing to look at. In the case of advertisements, it clearly shows you what the hands look like. I think that's the case with the book. A book looks more attractive when it's open in the middle. I really think that's all it is. lol

Personally, I'm more interested in the fact that apparently the MoM is a really good artist??? I assume he drew those illustrations himself. Impressive.

That's probably the case. Perhaps I'm just used to KH's little details lol.

Yeah, the MoM's illustrations are sure impressive! 

Speaking of clocks, the one on the NTT tower in the KHIII box art illustration has the Roman numerals I-XIII, not to 12. And someone pointed out that the small clock hand points at VII and the other hand points at XIII. ?

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

She's Class Zero's adoptive mother. It seems like most of them were abandoned or lost their biological parents to violence/war. (Jack saw his parents get murdered in front of him by burglars. Even if he can't remember them, the incident definitely messed him up. Add that to the list of potential reasons why Demyx hates fighting. There could be so many reasons. I desire... backstory...) Apparently Arecia is the one who gave them their names. The exceptions are Rem Tokimiya and Machina Kunagiri because they aren't her kids. Everybody else has a card-related name. Even Lean was renamed from Lean Hampelmann to Lean Joker. Tohno Mahoroha was renamed Tiz.

Ah I see. I was like 'Why do they call her Mother? That's a little strange'. Now it makes sense.

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Somewhere near the beginning of khx, I recall Chirithy saying that the MoM gave the Foretellers their names. I mean, that makes sense... It would be too much of a coincidence if all these people named after the seven deadly sins ended up in a group together. lol

Huh he did? Makes me wonder why he named them after the seven deadly sins. 

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Whu... Does this mean that Sora was dreaming of Quadratum the same way that Riku was? So the secret ending was a dream for everybody? I feel like that's probably the most likely answer. I just don't know what it meeeeans. lol

Or maybe it's only referring to the time when YMX threw him into the Verum Rex game. Remember, we still haven't figured out what that whole world was in Toy Box. I know it's a stretch, but I think of YMX as being related to dreams as a theme because he made his big debut in DDD, so if that alternate Toy Box world was a dream, then maybe that's why YMX was chosen for that world. Sora says that it (Quadratum) looks different, but that could just be because the version he was thrown into before was a video game. Still a dream, but also a game. A game in a dream.

When would he have dreamed of it I wonder? Hmm...

I'm not sure if that could be a dream. In the KHIII credits, there's a scene of Woody and the others(the ones that Sora meets) in Andy's room and then someone starts opening the door. I don't know. But that would be coincidentally convenient. Quadratum, dream, fiction video game....

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

tbh, it seems pretty fair to assume that Sora would've been able to recognize Quadratum from a dream if he had the same dreams as Riku. I guess I don't think about those two quite enough to have come to that conclusion yet, but it makes sense.

Demyx... You got any dreams you wanna tell us about...? Buddy...?

Speaking of Demyx, is he in that novel? I'd be eternally grateful if you share any tidbits. (He really is KH's most well-kept secret, isn't he? Gosh, that's not suspicious at ALL...... /sarcasm)

Perhaps Sora's side of the KHIII secret ending was a dream Sora had sometime...? 

The Vol. 3 of the KHIII novels is mostly copy-and-paste from the game. I went to all the Demyx scenes and it's unfortunately all the same as the game(wait, I just realized, he only has four scenes in KHIII(including Re:Mind)??? Whaa?). It would've been nice to have at least one little hint at his backstory. C'mon Nomura, what's his secrets???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Speaking of clocks, the one on the NTT tower in the KHIII box art illustration has the Roman numerals I-XIII, not to 12. And someone pointed out that the small clock hand points at VII and the other hand points at XIII. ?

The fact that the clock goes to 13 is interesting. I assume it's because 7 is a number associated with light and 13 is darkness, but it also makes me think of FFVII and FFXIII. I wonder if that's just a coincidence.

The numbers are all arranged out of order, too. A while back, I saw that someone figured out the pattern of how they were arranged. Makes me think of how Xigbar said that time isn't linear. Like the Daybreak Town clock tower, it might be a clock that doesn't tell time in a traditional way.

lpwFJgd.jpg

The large clock in Akademeia's main hall also goes to 13. It's probably something that stayed in the game ever since it was called Agito XIII, so it's probably a reference to the former title.

On at least one occasion, Arecia mentioned something called "the world clock" and I'm still not sure what that is. Maybe it's this clock in the main hall? I looked at the artbook, but the notes about the entrance don't mention the clock at all. Maybe she was just being figuratively and talking about destiny as if it were a clock...?

2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Huh he did? Makes me wonder why he named them after the seven deadly sins. 

Makes me wonder why Arecia chose to name her kids after cards. LOL

The Foretellers' names seem ironic to me. They're supposed to be seven lights, but they're named after sins. I think the average person probably wouldn't even realize it at first because the names are in Latin. The characters themselves haven't talked about the meaning of their names, so it gives me the feeling that they aren't conscious of what they actually represent. It's something for the audience.

I've seen people try to figure out things like how Gula represents gluttony and how Invi is envy, but I don't think it's that deep... Like at all... kgjhfjk Unless we see some scenes in the future which connect their names to their behavior in more clear, concrete ways, I don't think their names are indicators of their behavior/personalities.

Except for Demyx. He's already done a good job of representing pride. 

2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I'm not sure if that could be a dream. In the KHIII credits, there's a scene of Woody and the others(the ones that Sora meets) in Andy's room and then someone starts opening the door. I don't know. But that would be coincidentally convenient. Quadratum, dream, fiction video game....

I think that must mean that they made it back to the real version of their world in the end.

When Sora goes to Toy Box, Woody and the others explain how they were separated from the rest of the toys in Andy's room. The world they were taken to didn't have any people. It was like a parallel world... or a dream. If they were in a dream, that would explain why Buzz's blaster could function like a real laser.

This just makes me wonder even more about Quadratum... Is the fictional world all one big dream world?? Hm... There's definitely some kind of relationship between dreams and fiction. Maybe dreams are what give life to fictional things?

2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Perhaps Sora's side of the KHIII secret ending was a dream Sora had sometime...? 

Yeah... I'm also wondering when he would've had the dream. I thought Riku had his dream after Sora disappeared, but if Sora thought he'd seen Quadratum in a dream, then Sora obviously must've had the dream before he went there. lol I guess it's possible that he and Riku had the same dream, but they didn't have it at the same time. Or I got the wrong impression and Riku's dreams weren't as recent as I thought. He mentioned them after there was that 2-year time skip where they were looking for Sora.

That was a really good find, though. I'm glad you pointed that out. I hate how convoluted it is, but at least now it seems like we might know what the secret ending was.

Hm...

HMM...

Rather than reincarnations... Maybe Xehanort is the real person version of Player who was just a dream. This gets complicated because then what about the others like Ventus? Are they dream-people who escaped into the real world? If Sora looks like Sora in his own dreams, then what about Ephemer? Is he not Sora like I thought? ...Is the MoM who Demyx is when he's dreaming? That's one way to explain how the MoM can get around so fast. (Assuming that all the places where we've seen him have been dream worlds, including Daybreak Town and Scala.) But this idea seems to have a few conflicting points, so I'm not sure if it could be correct... Or maybe it is right and I'm just overly attached to the idea of Sora being Ephemer. If I get rid of that idea, then the rest seems possible. Right??

Edited by setsugekka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

The numbers are all arranged out of order, too.

HUH? Whoa, I did not see that! I was wondering why XII didn't look like XII. The order of the numbers(starting from 1, which is in its respective place) is 1, 6, 11, 4, 9, 2, 7, 12, 5, 10, 3, 8. I...don't see any significance to that though.

39 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

The Foretellers' names seem ironic to me. They're supposed to be seven lights, but they're named after sins. I think the average person probably wouldn't even realize it at first because the names are in Latin. The characters themselves haven't talked about the meaning of their names, so it gives me the feeling that they aren't conscious of what they actually represent. It's something for the audience.

I've seen people try to figure out things like how Gula represents gluttony and how Invi is envy, but I don't think it's that deep... Like at all... kgjhfjk Unless we see some scenes in the future which connect their names to their behavior in more clear, concrete ways, I don't think their names are indicators of their behavior/personalities.

I didn't know about it(except Ira, because his name isn't an abbreviation) until...until...gosh, I can't remember lol.

I wonder how Ava(Avaritia = greed, avarice) is greedy. And Ira(Ira = anger, wrath) doesn't really get angry, and wrath? Hmm... They don't seem to be personality traits, but then what could they be I wonder? Their animal masks do match those though. Oh wait! The Foretellers' personalities do match the animals' positive traits! Hmm...

39 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

When Sora goes to Toy Box, Woody and the others explain how they were separated from the rest of the toys in Andy's room. The world they were taken to didn't have any people. It was like a parallel world... or a dream. If they were in a dream, that would explain why Buzz's blaster could function like a real laser.

This just makes me wonder even more about Quadratum... Is the fictional world all one big dream world?? Hm... There's definitely some kind of relationship between dreams and fiction. Maybe dreams are what give life to fictional things?

Oh yeah, I wonder how I could've forgot the absence of people! Hmm...

When people dream, they dream of something that isn't real(unless it is a vision). And a fictional author uses their imagination to write fictional stories. And this is one of the definitions of 'imagination':

Quote

the formation of a mental image of something that is not perceived as real and is not present to the senses

Dreams definitely give life to fictional things. Then I wonder, is the realm of Quadratum a compilation of people's imagination and dreams? Kind of like Wreck-it-Ralph, actually. Someone made up the story of the games in Wreck-it-Ralph, and the movie is by the perspective of those fictional characters. The fictional story that someone made up is their life. But...Yozora seems to be a real person, so how did he stumble into someone's imagination?

39 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Rather than reincarnations... Maybe Xehanort is the real person version of Player who was just a dream. This gets complicated because then what about the others like Ventus? Are they dream-people who escaped into the real world? If Sora looks like Sora in his own dreams, then what about Ephemer? Is he not Sora like I thought? ...Is the MoM who Demyx is when he's dreaming? That's one way to explain how the MoM can get around so fast. (Assuming that all the places where we've seen him have been dream worlds, including Daybreak Town and Scala.) But this idea seems to have a few conflicting points, so I'm not sure if it could be correct... Or maybe it is right and I'm just overly attached to the idea of Sora being Ephemer. If I get rid of that idea, then the rest seems possible. Right??

HMMMMM...........wait, how is Daybreak Town a dream world? 

Edited by Double OKP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

The order of the numbers(starting from 1, which is in its respective place) is 1, 6, 11, 4, 9, 2, 7, 12, 5, 10, 3, 8. I...don't see any significance to that though.

Yeah, the pattern is just adding 5 each time and it starts over from 1 whenever it reaches 12. I think it was just a good way to mix up the order of the numbers.

4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Oh wait! The Foretellers' personalities do match the animals' positive traits! Hmm...

Which reminds me, what do you think the MoM's animal would be? I wonder if we're ever going to find out (if he has one at all)... Based on Agito, my bets are either a phoenix like the Vermilion Bird or a black lion like the Judge's Eidolon. My non-Agito prediction would be a peacock.

4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

But...Yozora seems to be a real person, so how did he stumble into someone's imagination?

*strokes chin* Are we suuure about that? I think he's part of the fictional world. I think he just seems real because it turned out that the fictional world is real. (It's hard to talk about all this real and fictional stuff, isn't it? lol Confusing.) Sora knew Yozora from the video game, Verum Rex. So he was surprised to see that he was "real", but it's just that the video game world is a "real" place in the fictional world. The whole fictional world could be the collection of everyone's imaginations, so it includes the worlds of video games.

Have you ever watched any isekai anime? The kind like Sword Art Online or .hack where the characters get sucked into a video game? That's what this is all reminding me of right now.

4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

HMMMMM...........wait, how is Daybreak Town a dream world? 

Remember what Dark Chirithy said about meeting again "in another dream"? I'm always thinking about that. It made it sound like they were already in a dream to start with. With the way that the war kept repeating ever since the MoM was young, it makes me wonder if the world was a sleeping world because those would also keep repeating the same events over and over. A friend also suggested that Daybreak Town could be a fictional world, since "the age of fairytales" and "Back Cover" make it sound like a book. It's confusing... I'm not sure exactly how to make sense of it, but I also reeeally get the feeling that it isn't a normal world...

The fact that Ephemer was reaching out to Player through their dreams... There really is something going on with all this dream stuff. It's all connected somehow.

Ages ago, I was assuming that EVERYTHING was a video game. Until we learn more, even that still sounds possible to me. I can't tell what's really real anymore. LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Yeah, the pattern is just adding 5 each time and it starts over from 1 whenever it reaches 12. I think it was just a good way to mix up the order of the numbers.

Ohhhhh(I can never figure out these kinds of stuff lol)...the significance of the number 5 in KH is 5 Foretellers and 5 Union Leaders. Hmm...

4 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Which reminds me, what do you think the MoM's animal would be? I wonder if we're ever going to find out (if he has one at all)... Based on Agito, my bets are either a phoenix like the Vermilion Bird or a black lion like the Judge's Eidolon. My non-Agito prediction would be a peacock.

I actually never gave a thought to that. An animal that can be amusing and prideful........hmm maybe a lion(prideful yes, but amusing?)? 

8 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

*strokes chin* Are we suuure about that? I think he's part of the fictional world. I think he just seems real because it turned out that the fictional world is real. (It's hard to talk about all this real and fictional stuff, isn't it? lol Confusing.) Sora knew Yozora from the video game, Verum Rex. So he was surprised to see that he was "real", but it's just that the video game world is a "real" place in the fictional world. The whole fictional world could be the collection of everyone's imaginations, so it includes the worlds of video games.

Have you ever watched any isekai anime? The kind like Sword Art Online or .hack where the characters get sucked into a video game? That's what this is all reminding me of right now.

Yozora says "No, this isn't the real world". Someone of unreality knowing that their world isn't real? That doesn't seem right...

I've watched some Studio Ghibli movies but tbh I've never watched anime. But I have heard of those stories of people getting sucked into video games. That'd be very funny if the KH crew go to Toy Box and see Sora in a Verum Rex trailer. lol

13 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Remember what Dark Chirithy said about meeting again "in another dream"? I'm always thinking about that. It made it sound like they were already in a dream to start with. With the way that the war kept repeating ever since the MoM was young, it makes me wonder if the world was a sleeping world because those would also keep repeating the same events over and over. A friend also suggested that Daybreak Town could be a fictional world, since "the age of fairytales" and "Back Cover" make it sound like a book. It's confusing... I'm not sure exactly how to make sense of it, but I also reeeally get the feeling that it isn't a normal world...

The fact that Ephemer was reaching out to Player through their dreams... There really is something going on with all this dream stuff. It's all connected somehow.

Ages ago, I was assuming that EVERYTHING was a video game. Until we learn more, even that still sounds possible to me. I can't tell what's really real anymore. LOL

I always found Back Cover's title strange. I didn't realize that. HMMM...........if Daybreak Town is indeed a dream/fictional world, then...what's the real world? What is real anyway(in KH)? "I've been having these weird thoughts lately...like, is any of this for real or not? None of this...makes sense to me." Now we're thinking like Sora! Nomura, what could you possibly be planning???

I was watching that scene in KHIII when Xigbar is talking to Sora in Olympus to find out more about Sora's fate. Xigbar clearly knows what path Sora has taken. He says "Find the hearts joined to yours" just like YMX told Sora at Toy Box. He also talks about a 'reward' at the end. HMMMM......

I also went to Xigbar's character file to check things. Then I noticed something. You know how he's talking to someone in the beginning? Well, it's not Sora, because Xigbar never told him anything about the box(his wording at the end of the character file indicates it's before he came back as Luxu). Also, he words it like 'Sora glared at me.'. He would have put it like: 'You glared at me.' if he was talking to Sora in the beginning. And then! He says:

Quote

Your face tells me you have no idea what I’m talking about. It’s all right, you don’t need to understand it yet. It makes no difference to me.

Someone who doesn't know about the Keyblade War(the previous passages is Luxu/Xigbar referring to the Keyblade War)? And...why does Luxu/Xigbar(I don't know which name I should call him by anymore lol) sound nice to this person? Then he says this:

Quote

And so, I’ve always watched over you guys—or rather, watched over the Keyblade. I just played the part of a fool who wanted the power of the Keyblade for myself.

Really, really reminds me of how Luxu watched/watches over the Union Leaders. So, it has to be someone who doesn't know about the Keyblade War, someone who doesn't know a thing about what Luxu is telling them(Luxu would never give this information who understands it. Luxord, for example; Luxu wouldn't just give him this information that he was questioned about), and someone who knows about the existence of the black box. Seems like it would be an Organization member. Who do you think it could be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Yozora says "No, this isn't the real world". Someone of unreality knowing that their world isn't real? That doesn't seem right...

Well, he was talking about Quadratum there. Or the dream version of Quadratum, whichever it is.

All the people in the Game Central Station worlds seem to know that they're from video games, so I wouldn't say it's impossible for people in the fictional world to not know that they aren't "real." But yeah, I think he probably just said that because it was a dream at the time.

13 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

I've watched some Studio Ghibli movies but tbh I've never watched anime. But I have heard of those stories of people getting sucked into video games. That'd be very funny if the KH crew go to Toy Box and see Sora in a Verum Rex trailer. lol

In particular, I'm thinking about how some characters will be one way in the real world, but then their avatar in the game is something totally different, usually the opposite of how they are in real life. So if the MoM is Demyx's dream/fictional self, it reminds me of the type of character who's a loser who gets picked on in real life, but then they're Super Awesome And Powerful in the game. So being sucked into the game is like a wish fulfillment story. ngl, that would be an extremely funny twist. The concept of MoM Demyx is already funny, but it would be turbo funny to me if he was only awesome in his own imagination.

26 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Xigbar clearly knows what path Sora has taken. He says "Find the hearts joined to yours" just like YMX told Sora at Toy Box. He also talks about a 'reward' at the end. HMMMM......

Yeah, it's like he and YMX both knew that they had to push Sora towards making the choice that would save the world. The line about the "reward" isn't there in Japanese, though. He says "The goal (finish line) might be surprisingly closer than you think." That stupid line in English had people thinking that Sora would get some kind of treasure out of this in the end. Nope.

39 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

So, it has to be someone who doesn't know about the Keyblade War, someone who doesn't know a thing about what Luxu is telling them(Luxu would never give this information who understands it. Luxord, for example; Luxu wouldn't just give him this information that he was questioned about), and someone who knows about the existence of the black box. Seems like it would be an Organization member. Who do you think it could be?

Hm... I'm really not sure. I'm inclined to believe that he's talking to the reader. This sounds like the kind of writing from the khx novel which always referred to the Player as "you." I heard that the person who wrote the character files stories is the same author. So....... It sounds to me like he was talking to Player - the novel version of Player who's supposed to be us. Once again, I'm questioning how much they knew about the future of the series. If I'm right, then this all doesn't make a whole lot of sense since Player is probably Xehanort. But it's like the author didn't know that.

Like you said, this line ("And so, I’ve always watched over you guys—or rather, watched over the Keyblade.") is the one that confuses me the most. It makes it sound like he's specifically talking to one of the new union leaders... But there's a LOT of conflicting factors.

It's garbage. I think it's just trash writing, tbh. LMAO I'm willing to take the L if this ends up making sense somewhere down the line, but I'm taking this one with the BIGGEST grain of salt. Some things might be important, like time being non-linear and the box having something deceptive about it, but besides that... I'm tuning out the rest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Well, he was talking about Quadratum there. Or the dream version of Quadratum, whichever it is.

All the people in the Game Central Station worlds seem to know that they're from video games, so I wouldn't say it's impossible for people in the fictional world to not know that they aren't "real." But yeah, I think he probably just said that because it was a dream at the time.

Ah I see. I guess that makes sense.

30 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

In particular, I'm thinking about how some characters will be one way in the real world, but then their avatar in the game is something totally different, usually the opposite of how they are in real life. So if the MoM is Demyx's dream/fictional self, it reminds me of the type of character who's a loser who gets picked on in real life, but then they're Super Awesome And Powerful in the game. So being sucked into the game is like a wish fulfillment story. ngl, that would be an extremely funny twist. The concept of MoM Demyx is already funny, but it would be turbo funny to me if he was only awesome in his own imagination.

?Then the Foretellers would be like, "Wait, this guy was our Master???" Wait, would they even be real in the first place? I'm lost

32 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

The line about the "reward" isn't there in Japanese, though. He says "The goal (finish line) might be surprisingly closer than you think." That stupid line in English had people thinking that Sora would get some kind of treasure out of this in the end. Nope.

:eh: *fuming-over-mistranslations-that-make-no-sense*

 

35 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Hm... I'm really not sure. I'm inclined to believe that he's talking to the reader. This sounds like the kind of writing from the khx novel which always referred to the Player as "you." I heard that the person who wrote the character files stories is the same author. So....... It sounds to me like he was talking to Player - the novel version of Player who's supposed to be us. Once again, I'm questioning how much they knew about the future of the series. If I'm right, then this all doesn't make a whole lot of sense since Player is probably Xehanort. But it's like the author didn't know that.

Like you said, this line ("And so, I’ve always watched over you guys—or rather, watched over the Keyblade.") is the one that confuses me the most. It makes it sound like he's specifically talking to one of the new union leaders... But there's a LOT of conflicting factors.

It's garbage. I think it's just trash writing, tbh. LMAO I'm willing to take the L if this ends up making sense somewhere down the line, but I'm taking this one with the BIGGEST grain of salt. Some things might be important, like time being non-linear and the box having something deceptive about it, but besides that... I'm tuning out the rest.

Yeah, at first that's the impression you get. But then that line... it makes most sense that that person is Marluxia...but that doesn't make total sense at the same time.

Nomura said he wants to answer all the questions and mysteries so I will wait for those answers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...