setsugekka 162 Posted January 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Double OKP said: ?Then the Foretellers would be like, "Wait, this guy was our Master???" Wait, would they even be real in the first place? I'm lost I have no idea if my crazy idea is even possible, but if we're gonna humor it like this... I like the thought of them being created from his imagination. Demyx said he wanted friends, so they could be his "imaginary friends." lol That's kinda sad, actually. Hm, speaking of which... Isn't it kinda weird that Demyx thought he'd have a chance of making friends in the Organization? I know we talked about this a little before, but unless it was destiny blindly leading him to Xigbar, I gotta wonder what gave him the impression that he could make friends by joining the Organization... He sounded unsure about his reason at first, though. He was probably right about why he joined in a vague/general sense, but maybe he wasn't entirely correct. He kept stressing that it was just what he was assuming, like he couldn't even totally remember why he joined. So weird... HMMM...... Yeeeah... The Foretellers are the MoM's apprentices, but he does have a friendly relationship with them, especially Luxu. After Demyx says that he thinks he wanted friends, he defensively admitted that that must've made him sound lame/uncool. It's like, maybe the MoM wouldn't have wanted to admit that he thought of them as friends because then he wouldn't have the same authoritative image as their master (ie, his pride getting in the way), but Demyx recognized that internalized desire for friendship for what it was. If he knew about the MoM in any capacity, he would've been familiar with the Organization's black coats. I've always wondered about why the MoM and Luxu were the only two Foretellers who wore those coats. Like, there's gotta be a reason... Until they showed up, those coats were always associated with just the Organization. I think that's what they were supposed to make us think of, especially now that we know for sure that one of them WAS in the Organization. Anyway, point is, maybe the Organization's coats were familiar to Demyx. That could've affected his decision to join. ANYWAY. I had some other thoughts. I just realized that if the Age of Fairytales is based on Agito, then it isn't too far-fetched to think that Daybreak Town could've been a fictional world like Verum Rex. But it's so hard to make sense of it when the Age of Fairytales is supposed to be the past of the "real world"... Unless nothing has ever been real. lmao NA khux updated last night. Here's what they did with the "that's just plain rude" line: Quote Luxu: But we're just giving up and running away!MoM: It sounds bad when you put it like that. I'm sad they didn't work the Demyx line into there somehow, but I understand. It would've required some wiggling, and they probably had no idea whether it was a real reference or not - assuming they even noticed it. I think what they came up with is an excellent alterative, though. It captures how defensive and offended the MoM sounded which is something some fan translations failed on. Personally, I'm a big fan of this exchange: Quote MoM: I took you under my wing and taught you everything you know.MoM: Which is apparently nothing.Luxu: What's that supposed to mean?MoM: You think too much. A friend called this MoM's "high WIS, low INT build." tbh, I think the MoM is actually one of these. ("Oddly enough, his advice is almost always spot on, because the real problems are actually very simple — so simple that everyone has been overlooking the answers all along." YEAH, LIKE THAT. The whole page sounds just like him to me.) Also, remember that line where we were questioning whether the MoM said "we" or not when referring to ending the world? The localization also went with "we." That just leaves things ambiguous. lol It's still unclear who was going to do the actual world-ending. 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted January 28, 2021 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: Hm, speaking of which... Isn't it kinda weird that Demyx thought he'd have a chance of making friends in the Organization? I know we talked about this a little before, but unless it was destiny blindly leading him to Xigbar, I gotta wonder what gave him the impression that he could make friends by joining the Organization... He sounded unsure about his reason at first, though. He was probably right about why he joined in a vague/general sense, but maybe he wasn't entirely correct. He kept stressing that it was just what he was assuming, like he couldn't even totally remember why he joined. So weird... ....Did the members have a free choice to join? Roxas and Xion obviously didn't, but what about the others? 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: I've always wondered about why the MoM and Luxu were the only two Foretellers who wore those coats. Hmm.....it kinda seems like Luxu is the MoM's 'apprentice apprentice'. He taught Luxu lots of stuff. On the other hand, he didn't give as much knowledge to the Foretellers, and then he just left. Reminds me of that line that Luxu said to Ava: Quote Has it occured to you that maybe the Master wasn’t so concerned about the world’s future…but how we, his disciples, would let our hearts guide us? Seems like the MoM didn't teach the Foretellers as much, then left and observed how their hearts guided them. Maybe he only gave Luxu the coat because he specifically didn't want him to fall astray, then he watched how the Foretellers would do without protection or knowledge...? 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: But it's so hard to make sense of it when the Age of Fairytales is supposed to be the past of the "real world"... Unless nothing has ever been real. Honestly, I don't think Nomura would go that far with all this reality and unreality stuff. It would be too complex for the majority to understand(Kingdom Hearts is already very complex as is. Adding more would be a little too much imo). I still wonder why it's called the 'Age of Fairytales'. Like, a fairytale is a story told to amuse children. That era was an era of war, something you would definitely not tell to children. Or is that the people in the modern era don't understand the devastation and tragedy of that era because it occurred very long ago so they don't take it to be serious? 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: Also, remember that line where we were questioning whether the MoM said "we" or not when referring to ending the world? The localization also went with "we." That just leaves things ambiguous. lol It's still unclear who was going to do the actual world-ending. It was part of his plan so it would make sense for him to say 'we'. He intended for that world to end, and Luxu was the one who carried it out. 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted January 29, 2021 41 minutes ago, Double OKP said: ....Did the members have a free choice to join? Roxas and Xion obviously didn't, but what about the others? That's a really good question. I always assumed that they were all like Roxas. The founding members were in a similar situation where they had to be there whether they liked it or not. I assume that Saix and Axel were turned into Nobodies at the same time because they decided to become apprentices to Ansem the Wise. Marluxia and Larxene had their plan to stage a coup to take over the Organization which makes it seem like they may not have been there by choice. But then there's Demyx and Luxord who both seem... kinda comfortable with being there? Demyx was the first to be recruited after the Radiant Garden members which makes me wonder if he was some kind of priority. idk. Something about his position as the first new member probably makes him special. When he talks to Ienzo in KH3, there's this one line that always stood out to me... (Translation because they completely changed this in English.) Quote Demyx: Hm, yeah, I think being human probably ain't so bad, after all. I returned to being a Nobody. But, y'know, something tells me I got tricked with some sweet-talk. Later, I wanna hear which you prefer!Ienzo: Wh-what's this, all of a sudden? I guess you could write it off as Demyx being eccentric and asking a weird question, but......... That's a WEIRD question. The vibe I get from this is that he wasn't bothered about becoming a Nobody. There's being easygoing and chill, and then there's whatever Demyx is. LMAO Knowing how cowardly he usually acts, wouldn't you expect him to be scared of becoming a Nobody?? It's like a decision on the same level as choosing which socks to wear. 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: Maybe he only gave Luxu the coat because he specifically didn't want him to fall astray, then he watched how the Foretellers would do without protection or knowledge...? Well, yes, contextually, that would be the reason. But I'm talking about it from a meta perspective - what was Nomura trying to tell us by making them wear the coats? He chose a design we would be familiar with, that would make us think certain things. Just looking at the coat, I think he expected people to immediately think of a few characters: Xehanort, Ansem the Wise, and Riku. Xehanort had the same keyblade. Ansem the Wise is a scientist and he holds his hands behind his back the same way. Riku's keyblades had the Gazing Eye. Demyx also wears the coat, but unless you were specifically looking for someone who matched the MoM's personality, you wouldn't think of him first. And even if someone did think of him, there were YEARS where we thought that Demyx wasn't coming back. It wasn't until after KH3 that everyone collectively went "...Wait, is Demyx is the MoM?" So basically, I think the MoM's coat is trying to tell us that he's someone who has worn the coat, but it's probably not who people would've immediately thought of. So... Demyx. ? For example, it would be weird if the MoM was a new character because the black coat wouldn't have any meaning for somebody new. Why the black coat then? Just make a new design, lazy. lol 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: I still wonder why it's called the 'Age of Fairytales'. Like, a fairytale is a story told to amuse children. That era was an era of war, something you would definitely not tell to children. Or is that the people in the modern era don't understand the devastation and tragedy of that era because it occurred very long ago so they don't take it to be serious? A lot of fairytales are REALLY MESSED UP... Have you never heard of Grimms' fairy tales? The original versions of many of their stories are reeeally dark. Snow White and Cinderalla are part of the Grimm fairy tales collection. I've been assuming that that's why the past is called "the age of fairytales", since it included some of those classic stories. The worlds aren't all based on stories from the Grimm collection, but the other stories like Aladdin, Alice in Wonderland, Hercules, etc could be considered modern fairy tales; they're Disney's own interpretation of popular old stories. But, by referring to the past that way, it makes it sound like the worlds of the past weren't real - like they were just made-up fairy tales. My friend also pointed out how khux begins with a pop-up book introduction. iirc, a similar style was used in the 1.5 opening video when they showed Destiny Islands... 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: I assume that Saix and Axel were turned into Nobodies at the same time because they decided to become apprentices to Ansem the Wise. Marluxia and Larxene had their plan to stage a coup to take over the Organization which makes it seem like they may not have been there by choice. But then there's Demyx and Luxord who both seem... kinda comfortable with being there? In KHIII, Saïx said they joined the Organization to follow Xehanort's Nobody and to try to find out what happened to Subject X. Demyx [in his character file] says he is in the Organization because he wanted friends, implying he joined by his own choice. Luxord appears loyal to the Organization; he said he always obeys orders from above without question. But...I'm not sure if he joined by his own choice. 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: I guess you could write it off as Demyx being eccentric and asking a weird question, but......... That's a WEIRD question. The vibe I get from this is that he wasn't bothered about becoming a Nobody. There's being easygoing and chill, and then there's whatever Demyx is. LMAO Knowing how cowardly he usually acts, wouldn't you expect him to be scared of becoming a Nobody?? It's like a decision on the same level as choosing which socks to wear. Whoa, that's very weird! [lol] I would think he would be scared. I mean, someone(or himself, but I doubt he would do it) has to separate his heart from his body, like, that would hurt! And then becoming a human again, someone has to literally kill him! 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: But I'm talking about it from a meta perspective - what was Nomura trying to tell us by making them wear the coats? He chose a design we would be familiar with, that would make us think certain things. Just looking at the coat, I think he expected people to immediately think of a few characters: Xehanort, Ansem the Wise, and Riku. Xehanort had the same keyblade. Ansem the Wise is a scientist and he holds his hands behind his back the same way. Riku's keyblades had the Gazing Eye. Demyx also wears the coat, but unless you were specifically looking for someone who matched the MoM's personality, you wouldn't think of him first. And even if someone did think of him, there were YEARS where we thought that Demyx wasn't coming back. It wasn't until after KH3 that everyone collectively went "...Wait, is Demyx is the MoM?" So basically, I think the MoM's coat is trying to tell us that he's someone who has worn the coat, but it's probably not who people would've immediately thought of. So... Demyx. ? For example, it would be weird if the MoM was a new character because the black coat wouldn't have any meaning for somebody new. Why the black coat then? Just make a new design, lazy. lol HMMMMMM..............? That makes sense! Speaking of Riku's Keyblades having the Gazing Eye, I've been wondering for a really long time why Riku's and Vanitas's Keyblades have the eyes. Like, how many eyes does the MoM have??? 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: A lot of fairytales are REALLY MESSED UP... Have you never heard of Grimms' fairy tales? The original versions of many of their stories are reeeally dark. Oh yeah....like the Little Mermaid's original version ended with Ariel turning into a bubble and dying. Disney literally took those stories and made a happy ending to make it a fairytale. 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: But, by referring to the past that way, it makes it sound like the worlds of the past weren't real - like they were just made-up fairy tales. My friend also pointed out how khux begins with a pop-up book introduction. iirc, a similar style was used in the 1.5 opening video when they showed Destiny Islands... Wait....1.5? Do you mean the 2.8 opening? The 2.8 is with the books, one of them opening as a pop-up of Destiny Islands. I realized it could be a Book of Prophecies so I made a theory(no, more like an excited rant lollll). In BBS, Xehanort says this: Quote "χ"... A most ancient letter. Some say "kye", but the meaning is the same. Death... A letter that spells endings. Kingdom Hearts χ[chi](KHχ is about the Keyblade War, which brought the end of the World). Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ. Unchained death. I wonder what that's supposed to mean. Edited January 29, 2021 by Double OKP 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Speaking of Riku's Keyblades having the Gazing Eye, I've been wondering for a really long time why Riku's and Vanitas's Keyblades have the eyes. Like, how many eyes does the MoM have??? See, that's the thing. That's one of the reasons why I don't think it's originally the MoM's own power. I could see it being a power that came from Darkness when they made their truce because it seems like the Gazing Eye appears on keyblades that have a connection to darkness. Alternatively, years ago, I was thinking that it could have been inherited by the keyblades from master to pupil. For instance, that would've explained why one of Terra's had it because he chose to follow Xehanort, Riku's might've had it because he was under the control of Ansem SoD, etc. It seemed like it was appearing on the keyblade of anyone who was connected in some way to Xehanort/the No Name. I thought it would've also worked for Vanitas, thinking of Xehanort as his master, but now we know that Vanitas is also probably Darkness (or some version of Darkness), so that makes me feel unsure of that idea... Maybe it's still possible, idk. 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Wait....1.5? Do you mean the 2.8 opening? Oh yeah, whichever one it was. I can't keep those titles straight. lol I just went and rewatched it. I forgot how many pages were in there throughout the whole opening. It's definitely gotta be an allusion to the Book of Prophecies like you said in your post. I think we could've always gleaned that much from it, but now that we're thinking about what's real or fictional, it's like... Does it mean that they're LITERALLY characters from a story? From OUR perspective, they definitely are. I just wanna know if we're supposed to be thinking about it that deeply. Just how meta is it supposed to be? Which reminds me... When I was working on my "video game theory" before Re:Mind, I tried to think of "Kingdom Hearts" as the title of the series, not just the heart in the sky. During this one exchange in Back Cover, it sounds like they're talking about the game itself. This was a little hard because the video I was watching didn't have the text in Japanese, so it's just based on what I heard. lol Pretty sure this is all correct, though. Quote MoM: People across the world believe that the light will last forever and they never doubt themselves. But! If Kingdom Hearts were to disappear, the world would end in darkness.Ira: So that's why you entrusted us with the keyblades. As the defenders of light, we can spread the teachings and protect Kingdom Hearts from darkness.MoM: Nah. They're not for protecting the light.Ira: Huh?MoM: The last page of the Book of Prophecies: On that land, a great battle will transpire. Light will meet its defeat and be eradicated. The world will end in eternal darkness.Ira: Is that not what we keyblade wielders are meant to avert?MoM: Nah, 's impossible, y'know?Ira: Huhh?MoM: Isn't it kinda arrogant to think you can change the future?Ira: Well then... What are we to do?MoM: The issue is what comes AFTER the world ends in darkness. The world AFTER the Book of Prophecies. There's no need to think about anything that comes before that! I meeean... Why are they talking about Kingdom Hearts disappearing at all? It never disappeared. I don't think that was even a threat. Ever. Unless... they're talking about Kingdom Hearts, the game. We know what happens in Wreck-It Ralph when a game gets shut down in the arcade. The residents have to take refuge somewhere else, otherwise they'll basically die, right? Their world is over at that point. Imagine if the series ended after KH3. If everything has been part of a video game world, then their world would have come to an end. Forever. Like the MoM told Luxu, everything was to defeat the darkness, so it makes it seem like everything was planned out to change that ending so that the series would continue - so Kingdom Hearts wouldn't "disappear". Like, I just think that there's a difference between the world ending (like what happens after the keyblade war in the past) and the world ending in ETERNAL DARKNESS. The question is, why was that keyblade war going to be the one to end the world forever? Another thing I considered with my theory was the possibility that the timeline actually follows the release order of the games, meaning that khx isn't necessarily "the past" in the way we'd think normally. When the union leaders used the pods, maybe they were actually moving themselves to a different game in the series, from khx to BBS. Of course, this is also another way to explain what Xigbar meant about non-linear time. Have we ever found out why the union leaders lost their memories when they used the pods? I feel like it could have ssssomething to do with this. idk, I think this all sounds plausible, but it's still confusing... Still, gonna keep it there at the back of my mind. 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Kingdom Hearts χ[chi](KHχ is about the Keyblade War, which brought the end of the World). Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ. Unchained death. I wonder what that's supposed to mean. Becoming unchained = reincarnation confirmed?? lol idk (But MAYBE...) Edited January 29, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, setsugekka said: See, that's the thing. That's one of the reasons why I don't think it's originally the MoM's own power. I could see it being a power that came from Darkness when they made their truce because it seems like the Gazing Eye appears on keyblades that have a connection to darkness. Alternatively, years ago, I was thinking that it could have been inherited by the keyblades from master to pupil. For instance, that would've explained why one of Terra's had it because he chose to follow Xehanort, Riku's might've had it because he was under the control of Ansem SoD, etc. It seemed like it was appearing on the keyblade of anyone who was connected in some way to Xehanort/the No Name. I thought it would've also worked for Vanitas, thinking of Xehanort as his master, but now we know that Vanitas is also probably Darkness (or some version of Darkness), so that makes me feel unsure of that idea... Maybe it's still possible, idk. OH that's who I was forgetting! I knew someone else had a Keyblade with the Gazing Eye, just forgot it was Terra. Anyway... If the Gazing Eye's power came from darkness, wouldn't the eye be golden/yellow then? (or is it because it's the MoM's eye that it's blue...) There's that thing with eyes in KH. Like, Riku's eyes at the beginning of the series were light blue. But then now they're green(I'm thinking they changed because Riku fell to darkness but then returned to light. Blue mixed with yellow is green, after all). In the older games, the Gazing Eye was dark blue. But now they're kinda....green? Is that just design change because they switched to UE4 or is that supposed to have significance...? 22 hours ago, setsugekka said: This was a little hard because the video I was watching didn't have the text in Japanese, so it's just based on what I heard. lol Pretty sure this is all correct, though. In the English version, the MoM says, "No. They're not for protecting Kingdom Hearts." But wait, they're not for protecting light? Then...what's the Keyblade's purpose??? 22 hours ago, setsugekka said: I meeean... Why are they talking about Kingdom Hearts disappearing at all? It never disappeared. I don't think that was even a threat. Ever. Unless... they're talking about Kingdom Hearts, the game. We know what happens in Wreck-It Ralph when a game gets shut down in the arcade. The residents have to take refuge somewhere else, otherwise they'll basically die, right? Their world is over at that point. Imagine if the series ended after KH3. If everything has been part of a video game world, then their world would have come to an end. Forever. Like the MoM told Luxu, everything was to defeat the darkness, so it makes it seem like everything was planned out to change that ending so that the series would continue - so Kingdom Hearts wouldn't "disappear". Like, I just think that there's a difference between the world ending (like what happens after the keyblade war in the past) and the world ending in ETERNAL DARKNESS. The question is, why was that keyblade war going to be the one to end the world forever? ?? I just got so confused. Wait, the last passage of the Book is: 'On that fated land, darkness shall prevail and light expire.' ….That would have to mean all light. When the Guardians of Light, *ahem*, die, then there's no one to protect the light. They were called 'Guardians of Light' for a reason. So, in that case, wouldn't Kingdom Hearts have disappeared? But seeing Kingdom Hearts as a video game.....that also makes sense. Waaait , if that were true, then which realm is reality and which realm is unreality???? I'm seriously thinking like Sora right now. "None of this makes sense to me." 22 hours ago, setsugekka said: Have we ever found out why the union leaders lost their memories when they used the pods? I feel like it could have ssssomething to do with this. HMMMMMMMMM...Well, they were able to travel into the future because Lauriam encountered Maleficent. According to Darkness, in order to travel to the future [using the pods], you need someone in the future to have memories of you. Maleficent went back to the future(specifically to the time when she returned in KHII) without any memory loss, because, people had memories of her. So, Maleficent is back in the future...with memories of Lauriam, which allows him to travel to the future. In order for the others to travel to the future, he would have gone first because he was the only one to meet someone from the future. But then....this is where things get suuuuuuuuuper complicated. Lauriam is able to travel to the future...but he's not from the future. So, he goes to the future. Then the others follow... Oh wait, forgot about Brain. He didn't traverse into the future. Ummm.......all this is very confusing. Like, in order to travel to the future, the passenger has to board the pod twice. But why in the world would the ones who ended up in the future go back??? Did something go wrong? ...Continuing, the others were able to follow Lauriam because he was in the future annnnnnd, he had memories of them. HOWEVER. You need someone from the future to have memories of you. Lauriam is not from the future, but he is in the future. This could explain the others' memory loss; things weren't normal. But then.......what about Lauriam? He should be perfectly fine. However, he's not. In his character file, he says this: Quote If there were someone who could see everything in this world, maybe this was even the future they would have predicted. But I could never accept a future like that. I didn’t accept a future like that. Maybe that’s why I became a Nobody. Or maybe not. ...............It seems like he just didn't accept how things were and...cast his heart away, losing his memories in the process. BUT THEN there are so many things that don't make sense. Like, Luxu's in the future, right? He knows the Union Leaders; he has memories of them. So, why did things turn out the way they did if he had memories of them??? Not to mention that XEHANORT himself has memories of them; through his dreams. Why would Elrena become a Nobody? Annnnd, why did they all end up at different points in time?????? This is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry confusing Wait....I just realized because I reached the part in the KHIII Vol. 3 novel: Quote Maleficent: You cannot find the unfindable. The box does not exist. Pete: I knew they was takin' us for a ride! ? In the Olympus scene, he talks about 'a dingbat in black'. But now he's using the plural tense? Huh? Edited January 30, 2021 by Double OKP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Double OKP said: Is that just design change because they switched to UE4 or is that supposed to have significance...? In the case of the Gazing Eye, I really have no idea. In some scenes, it looks dark blue. In other scenes (such as in the intense light of the keyblade graveyard), it looks bright green. The one in the YMX blade is also a totally different color. Since there have been so many variations, it seems unreliable to me. Personally, I enjoy how Demyx's eyes and the Gazing Eye in the YMX keyblade are the same shade. But I also don't think it's valid proof of anything. lol I think I already mentioned how the YMX blade looks like a Type-0 themed keyblade to me. Didn't I? Maybe. I'm sad that the clock on the keyblade only goes to 12, though. lol 8 hours ago, Double OKP said: They were called 'Guardians of Light' for a reason. So, in that case, wouldn't Kingdom Hearts have disappeared? I don't think so. I just listened to Xehanort's speech again from after he lost to Sora, and it sounded like all he wanted to do was start the world over again. His plan didn't seem any different from what happened in the past when the world ended and started over. His plan wasn't to plunge the world into darkness. He said he wanted to start it over so it could be "pure and bright" again. Hm... Well, Xehanort couldn't have reforged the X-blade if all of the guardians of light died before they could clash against the thirteen darknesses. Without the X-blade, he wouldn't have been able to summon Kingdom Hearts, right? If he couldn't summon Kingdom Hearts, I'm not sure he would've been able to restart the world. .........But I don't think that would automatically cause the world to end in eternal darkness. There were still other characters out there who were full of light!! The guardians of light weren't the ONLY light in the world!! lmao IS THIS A PLOT HOLE? Nomura, please explain. This one's actually making me kinda mad. If it's all a game, then I understand why the world would've ended in eternal darkness -- the game couldn't continue without the main characters. So... Let's just hope it has a simple explanation like that. I don't even care if I'm right. I just want it to make sense. lol 8 hours ago, Double OKP said: But seeing Kingdom Hearts as a video game.....that also makes sense. Waaait , if that were true, then which realm is reality and which realm is unreality???? I think it's all going to be subjective and up to them to determine for themselves. Everybody in the KH world thinks that they're real, but I bet that Yozora thinks that he's real, too. How is he NOT real? What makes his world "fictional"? In the Toy Box world, Buzz keeps acting like it's impossible for Sora to understand what they're going through because Sora's "from a video game." On the surface, it's because they mixed Sora up with Yozora, but I think the game was probably trying to tell us more with those lines. From their perspective, Sora was just as fictional as Yozora. Similarly, why are the toys "real"? They're TOYS! They shouldn't be "alive" at all! So yeah. I think that's why they specifically chose Toy Story. 8 hours ago, Double OKP said: BUT THEN there are so many things that don't make sense. Like, Luxu's in the future, right? He knows the Union Leaders; he has memories of them. So, why did things turn out the way they did if he had memories of them??? Not to mention that XEHANORT himself has memories of them; through his dreams. Why would Elrena become a Nobody? Annnnd, why did they all end up at different points in time?????? Yeah, see. The whole memory thing is painfully confusing. For a second, I thought you might've been onto something with Lauriam having his memories before becoming a Nobody, but... I dunno. The wording of the character file seems intentionally ambiguous again. I'm also wondering what's going on with Demyx and Luxord's memories. It's hard to tell if Demyx is actually suffering from amnesia or not. He seemed unsure about why he joined the Organization, but maybe that's all it was. Maybe he was just confused because he hadn't been confident in his reason. Same for Luxord - we may not have ever heard him talk about his past, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he had amnesia. On the other hand, if he had to travel from the fictional world to the real world, it seems like there could've been an opportunity there for him to lose his memories. It's so hard to tell... If I had to bet, though, I think I'd bet that those two were both suffering from some level of amnesia, like becoming a Nobody was the same for them as receiving a minor concussion or something. lmao At least we know that Elrena "remembered" enough about Lauriam to keep following him. There was an interview where Nomura made it sound like part of her remembered him even if it wasn't in her conscious memories. Her character file seemed to support that. Subject X also had some of her own memories still. Even though she could barely remember anything, she knew that she had been separated from her friends. And it seems like lab crew were able to extract even more from her with their memory research, so that seems to indicate that their memories are still in them somewhere even if they can't consciously bring them to mind. Despite how much khux tried to explain it, the "waypoint" stuff with Maleficent is still confusing to me. It's just a weirdass concept... Why did any of that have to work that way?? There's gotta be more to that machine that they haven't told us yet. The whole thing with Maleficent seemed necessary so that the dandelions' bodies would be intact upon arrival in the future. I'm not sure it had anything to do with their memories. But still, that doesn't answer the question. We know that becoming Nobodies wasn't what made them lose their memories, seeing as how Ventus and Skuld weren't Nobodies and they also had amnesia. So it seems like it had something to do with their mode of travel. That's why I was wondering if it was connected to the timeline I proposed. Basically, Maleficent may have been able to ensure that their bodies made it, but maybe they lost their memories simply due to the fact that they didn't belong at that part of the game. It's making me think of certain glitches, like Yuffie warping in FFVII. You can exploit how the game's memory functions to warp yourself to just about any location in the game as long as you get a game over and then reload from a save in a specific location. The video shows how you can use it to miraculously raise Aerith from the dead. But when you perform or exploit glitches, it usually leads to some strange things happening because glitches aren't supposed to happen. Are you familiar with how to encounter Missingno in Pokemon Red and Blue? You can get a lot of awesome Pokemon with that glitch, but it'll also permanently mess up your PC boxes because the game doesn't know what to do with the glitched Pokemon. Glitches are things that already exist in the game and occur when certain actions are performed. It seems like Game Central Station being connected to Data Daybreak Town caused glitches, but maybe that wasn't the last we'd hear of glitches... After all, it seems kind of weird that they made a big deal about that and then dropped the topic... HMMMMMMMM. SUSPICIOUS. Let's not forget about Brain referring to himself as a "virus." ALSO SUSPICIOUS. People who are like "Kingdom Hearts really isn't that confusing if you pay attention ha ha" apparently aren't paying attention enough to realize HOW CONFUSING IT IS. Edited January 30, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted January 31, 2021 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: Personally, I enjoy how Demyx's eyes and the Gazing Eye in the YMX keyblade are the same shade. But I also don't think it's valid proof of anything. lol Wait, it is? ? 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: I think I already mentioned how the YMX blade looks like a Type-0 themed keyblade to me. Didn't I? Maybe. I'm sad that the clock on the keyblade only goes to 12, though. lol Hmm...I don't remember you mentioning that. But it actually does! What caught my eye about that Keyblade is that the teal of the blade and the goat's eyes is the same color as the KHχ[chi], XBC, KHUχ, and KHUX logos. And I wonder why that Keyblade doesn't have a name..... 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: I don't think so. I just listened to Xehanort's speech again from after he lost to Sora, and it sounded like all he wanted to do was start the world over again. His plan didn't seem any different from what happened in the past when the world ended and started over. His plan wasn't to plunge the world into darkness. He said he wanted to start it over so it could be "pure and bright" again. Hm... Well, Xehanort couldn't have reforged the X-blade if all of the guardians of light died before they could clash against the thirteen darknesses. Without the X-blade, he wouldn't have been able to summon Kingdom Hearts, right? If he couldn't summon Kingdom Hearts, I'm not sure he would've been able to restart the world. .........But I don't think that would automatically cause the world to end in eternal darkness. There were still other characters out there who were full of light!! The guardians of light weren't the ONLY light in the world!! lmao IS THIS A PLOT HOLE? Nomura, please explain. This one's actually making me kinda mad. If it's all a game, then I understand why the world would've ended in eternal darkness -- the game couldn't continue without the main characters. So... Let's just hope it has a simple explanation like that. I don't even care if I'm right. I just want it to make sense. lol The last passage of the Book makes it sound like it's talking about all light. But yeah, they weren't the only light. I don't know lol. HMMMMMMM......... at that fight, Terra-Xehanort says this: Quote Before you even face the thirteen, every last one of you will be torn from heart and body. But fear not. The χ-blade will still be forged. (In that scene, when he summons No Name, you can see the Gazing Eye up close....it is blue with light green outlining the pupil. I think those other scenes where it looked a certain color were just the lighting.) So, he just killed all the Guardians of Light(to secure their victory) and then probably the Organization were going to use the New Seven Hearts. 17 hours ago, setsugekka said: I think it's all going to be subjective and up to them to determine for themselves. Everybody in the KH world thinks that they're real, but I bet that Yozora thinks that he's real, too. How is he NOT real? What makes his world "fictional"? In the Toy Box world, Buzz keeps acting like it's impossible for Sora to understand what they're going through because Sora's "from a video game." On the surface, it's because they mixed Sora up with Yozora, but I think the game was probably trying to tell us more with those lines. From their perspective, Sora was just as fictional as Yozora. Similarly, why are the toys "real"? They're TOYS! They shouldn't be "alive" at all! So yeah. I think that's why they specifically chose Toy Story. Hmmmm.......that's very complicated lol. 17 hours ago, setsugekka said: For a second, I thought you might've been onto something with Lauriam having his memories before becoming a Nobody, but... I dunno. The wording of the character file seems intentionally ambiguous again. I think it's still plausible for him to have done that to himself, which could explain his memory loss, but then that doesn't explain the others' amnesia. Oh wait..... Skuld is actually the only Union Leader who has heard of Luxu, but she's never met him. The only Union Leader who will meet Luxu is the one who's going to stay behind to pass the No Name. ...Do you have to meet your waypoint and your waypoint to meet you in order to work? If that's true, then what I theorized earlier could work. Luxu, Xehanort, and Maleficent(wait, there's the MoM too...) are the only ones in the future to 'know' the Union Leaders(except Maleficent; she only knows about Lauriam). However, the Union Leaders(excluding Lauriam) never actually met any of them(even if [Player] = Xehanort, Xehanort would only be the reincarnation, not [Player] himself...if that makes sense lol). So........none of them could act as a waypoint for them. 17 hours ago, setsugekka said: I'm also wondering what's going on with Demyx and Luxord's memories. It's hard to tell if Demyx is actually suffering from amnesia or not. He seemed unsure about why he joined the Organization, but maybe that's all it was. Maybe he was just confused because he hadn't been confident in his reason. Same for Luxord - we may not have ever heard him talk about his past, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he had amnesia. On the other hand, if he had to travel from the fictional world to the real world, it seems like there could've been an opportunity there for him to lose his memories. It's so hard to tell... In the Demyx and Vexen cutscene, Demyx says this: Quote I didn't even know you in the old life! ...This seems to imply he has memories from before the Organization. Luxord is too mysterious to tell. lol 17 hours ago, setsugekka said: Subject X also had some of her own memories still. Even though she could barely remember anything, she knew that she had been separated from her friends. And it seems like lab crew were able to extract even more from her with their memory research, so that seems to indicate that their memories are still in them somewhere even if they can't consciously bring them to mind. Despite how much khux tried to explain it, the "waypoint" stuff with Maleficent is still confusing to me. It's just a weirdass concept... Why did any of that have to work that way?? There's gotta be more to that machine that they haven't told us yet. There's definitely something more.........Kairi also suffered amnesia after traversing through the Oceans Between with it. But...why??? I've always wondered why there is a lab at Radiant Garden [with complete lifeboats]. ...It could be possible that Apprentice Xehanort built a replica of the lab from Subject X's memories. Maybe... 17 hours ago, setsugekka said: Let's not forget about Brain referring to himself as a "virus." ALSO SUSPICIOUS. Speaking of which, in the most recent JP KHUX update, King Candy calls [Player] a virus............. 17 hours ago, setsugekka said: People who are like "Kingdom Hearts really isn't that confusing if you pay attention ha ha" apparently aren't paying attention enough to realize HOW CONFUSING IT IS. lol I used to be like that. I was like "Kingdom Hearts isn't thaat confusing..." How wrong I was. Kingdom Hearts is SUPER DUPER CONFUSING!!!! What could Nomura's plan be........... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Double OKP said: Wait, it is? ? Yeh. The middle colors are the brightest in each. I moved Demyx's up to be of equal saturation (top left) and the color looks nearly the same, just sliightly greener. At their darkest, they're a nearly identical blue. Nobody considers Final Fantasy Awakening canon (Although... It's questionable whether SE and Tabata consider it canon. They seemed to approve of it and even considered it a "follow-up" to Agito. lmao) BUT... That said, Jack had a sword called the "Serrated Ghostblade" which bears some similarity to the YMX blade. (omg, if the YMX blade is called "Ghostblade", I'd lose my shit. That's such a cool name.) As a katana, that thing makes NO sense. As a keyblade, though? Sure. In both screenshots, he's technically even holding it the right way for a keyblade because the teeth aren't on the side he would strike with. (edit) OH, if I'm going to mention stuff like this that probably doesn't really mean anything but still makes me go "WOWOWOWOW", then have a look at Jack's LD weapon from ddffoo: The Gazing Eye now comes in yellow! I was amused to see that Sephiroth's BT weapon also has a golden eye for some reason. Both are katanas. idk if that really meeeans anything, but... Jack's lost chapter does compare him to Sephiroth, so that's also kinda... (Cloud implies that Jack's way of killing seems meaningless and makes him sound scarier than Sephiroth. Love it.) It's weird that the eye in Sephiroth's sword is gold and not the color of the Gazing Eye, all things considered... omg, MoM is Sephiroth! ...Just kidding. But, like... *stares into the camera* ?????????? Literally, why doesn't anyone ever talk about Sephiroth when they talk about the Gazing Eye? He's got the... He wants to change destiny, and he... *gestures* His EYES. Look, he's NOT the MoM, but he IS a darkness boy! 7 hours ago, Double OKP said: So, he just killed all the Guardians of Light(to secure their victory) and then probably the Organization were going to use the New Seven Hearts. I legitimately forgot about the new seven hearts. It's like the Disney stuff just disappears from my brain. Okay, so I guess I just missed that then... My bad. You right. Thanks for clearing up my confusion. (I can't believe I forgot that. LOL) 7 hours ago, Double OKP said: ...Do you have to meet your waypoint and your waypoint to meet you in order to work? I'm just shaking my head and laughing a little like I'm losing my mind. It's so funny because it feels like they told us more about the waypoint stuff than most other things in khux so far, AND YET... We still can't be sure of how it exactly works. This is true suffering. 7 hours ago, Double OKP said: Speaking of which, in the most recent JP KHUX update, King Candy calls [Player] a virus............. Oh, I actually hadn't watched that yet! Thank you for reminding me. I actually still had to watch a few of the older parts from Game Central Station. Hm. Oh wow... The fact that Ralph and Felix explain what it means to "go Turbo" is interesting to me, seeing as how it sounds EXACTLY LIKE WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. ("He was jealous of how popular this new game was, so he must've jumped in to take it over. Because of that, a glitch came out, and he caused not only both games, but himself, to be broken... forever.") Turbo describes Player, a supposed fellow virus, as "a stranger from the outside." HMM... I've always thought that Brain would be a foreign element in the world's destiny because of the game referring to him as a virus, but is this implying that he's... "from the outside"? What would that mean...? Is it just that he's from a different world line? Or is it because Daybreak Town is part of a whole different game (khx)? I'm not sure if that's implying more than I already figured. Edited January 31, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 1, 2021 17 hours ago, setsugekka said: omg, MoM is Sephiroth! ...Just kidding. But, like... *stares into the camera* ?????????? Literally, why doesn't anyone ever talk about Sephiroth when they talk about the Gazing Eye? He's got the... He wants to change destiny, and he... *gestures* His EYES. Look, he's NOT the MoM, but he IS a darkness boy! ?? WHOA that's strange! (Now when I look at the Gazing Eye, the part framing the pupil looks kinda like the mako from FFVII...probably just a coincidence though) 17 hours ago, setsugekka said: I'm just shaking my head and laughing a little like I'm losing my mind. It's so funny because it feels like they told us more about the waypoint stuff than most other things in khux so far, AND YET... We still can't be sure of how it exactly works. This is true suffering. I know right? And the bad thing is is that it's most likely not going to be fully explained by the end of KHUX. Like....? I hardly remember anything from Wreck-it-Ralph because I haven't watched it in years lol. I completely forgot that Vexen's character file mentions Demyx! Quote There is no one more important than him. This is perfectly suited for him, after all. ...As long as my will is there, all his clever plans will be no match for the fool in front of me. ? Yes Vexen, you got it right! Xehanort is no match for Demyx LOL Wait....the MoM was the one who encouraged Xehanort to act and fix what he thought was wrong but Demyx is the one who messed up his plans? In Master Xehanort's character file: Quote And, on my journey towards him, I brushed with darkness several times. ....Journey towards who??? These character files.....? AND also: Quote It is exactly as someone had taught me. .........I'm pretty sure he's talking about the MoM. I'm super curious as to what the MoM taught him. I was watching Xehanort and the MoM's conversation again and one line stood out. Quote Those who are weak, and who desire greater power, simply strip the strong of their power, and convince themselves they've earned it. That's how people become tainted by darkness. .....Reminds me of what Darkness was saying about Ven. Speaking of that scene, people have been theorizing that the MoM's true name is Light because he said "The truth is what you see with your eyes, not what you hear"(which is not true in all cases) and when he said his name, the background became brighter. Do you think it's possible that that's his true name? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Wait....the MoM was the one who encouraged Xehanort to act and fix what he thought was wrong but Demyx is the one who messed up his plans? I'm not sure who the "him" is that Xehanort's character file is referring to... I wish I could see the original line. There doesn't seem to be any context for it... There are a lot of things that seem conflicting in hindsight. Especially things involving Vanitas. It feels weird that Xehanort would end up HURTING all of his friends even though they were the people he supposedly wanted to see again. Demyx working against Xehanort might also seem strange at first, but I think it makes sense when you think about it... Everyone was meant to play a role. Good and bad don't really exist. They're all like actors. Xehanort had to play the part of the villain. For this act, Demyx (MoM) became "one of the good guys" who would help take down the darkness. The MoM had to guide Xehanort toward becoming the villain for things to work, but everything was to defeat the darkness. 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: I'm super curious as to what the MoM taught him. The character file makes it sound like the MoM is the one who told him about Ventus and how to separate the darkness from his heart. I think it's probably a safe bet that he's also the one who taught him how to swap bodies and stuff. 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Speaking of that scene, people have been theorizing that the MoM's true name is Light because he said "The truth is what you see with your eyes, not what you hear"(which is not true in all cases) and when he said his name, the background became brighter. Do you think it's possible that that's his true name? Well, like I mentioned before, the original line didn't say "not what you hear" at all. It wasn't about comparing senses. The more I think about it, the more I hate that translation since it sounds like the opposite of the line from Xigbar's character file about how you shouldn't trust the outward appearance of things... His name probably isn't "Light." We have a theme going already, so it was probably "Superbia" like what's on the box. I say "was" because I don't think that's still his name, like how Luxu became "Braig" and "Xigbar." This is REALLY specific, so I don't know if this could be possible, but I LOVE this idea... I think Demyx's name could be "Melody", but spelled like "Mexdy." It's because there's another Greek X, chi-rho (⳩). ”Lo” and “ro” are the same in Japanese. It’s the ロ in メロディ (melody). A friend pointed out that it also looks like the musical notation of Sprechgesang: It has the exact same symbolic meaning as X (chi). So I'm just saying... Nomura... Feel free to steal my idea. lol It would be funny if "Melody of Memory" didn't just shorten to "MoM" but also LITERALLY INCLUDED HIS NAME. In any case... I just find it kinda sus that Demyx's name seems like it could've been made from the word "melody" to start with. Edited February 1, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 1, 2021 2 hours ago, setsugekka said: For this act, Demyx (MoM) became "one of the good guys" who would help take down the darkness. The MoM had to guide Xehanort toward becoming the villain for things to work, but everything was to defeat the darkness. Ah I see. That makes sense. 2 hours ago, setsugekka said: Well, like I mentioned before, the original line didn't say "not what you hear" at all. It wasn't about comparing senses. The more I think about it, the more I hate that translation since it sounds like the opposite of the line from Xigbar's character file about how you shouldn't trust the outward appearance of things... His name probably isn't "Light." We have a theme going already, so it was probably "Superbia" like what's on the box. I say "was" because I don't think that's still his name, like how Luxu became "Braig" and "Xigbar." Oh, I forgot you mentioned that earlier! My bad! Hmm....but I wonder what it was that got that reaction out of Xehanort. If the MoM said 'Superbia', why would he be surprised? Hmm.... (What if he actually just said "My name is the Master of Masters". Psyche! lol) On the box, it says χSuper. I went on Wikipedia to search more about χ(because I feel like there's more to it), but I couldn't find anything. I did find some definitions for Latin words that have super in them. Most of them have to do with arrogance. These are some of the definitions of 'superus': Quote mpl the gods above; the living ntpl the heavenly bodies; higher places I don't think this will have any significance, but I just thought it was strange those definitions were among the words associated with arrogance. 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: This is REALLY specific, so I don't know if this could be possible, but I LOVE this idea... I think Demyx's name could be "Melody", but spelled like "Mexdy." It's because there's another Greek X, chi-rho (⳩). ”Lo” and “ro” are the same in Japanese. It’s the ロ in メロディ (melody). A friend pointed out that it also looks like the musical notation of Sprechgesang: That would be so cool! Wait...the chi-rho symbol originated from Emperor Constantine and his army seeing a vision of a cross in the sky. And, in Kingdom Hearts, χ has been pronounced as 'cross' (Union χ[Cross]). ? (but that might just be a coincidence 'cause I think people do sometimes say 'x' as 'cross'. 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Double OKP said: Hmm....but I wonder what it was that got that reaction out of Xehanort. If the MoM said 'Superbia', why would he be surprised? Hmm.... (What if he actually just said "My name is the Master of Masters". Psyche! lol) Well, he follow it up with "I'm a Lost Master." If his name is "Superbia", I think YMX might have immediately recognized him as one of those ancient masters who mysteriously disappeared, which is why he looked surprised. I think it makes sense for it to be a name he would've heard. ...But if that's the case, I'm not sure it would still be necessary to hide it from us?? If he said "Superbia" why would that still be a secret when it feels so obvious?? idk... Maybe the game's treating us like we're stupid. lol "Bet you haven't guessed what his name is!" Alternatively, it IS something like "Mexdy" and it would've made it way too obvious who he is now. Personally, that part just annoys me. It feels like it was there just to tease us and I don't find that cute. ? Stop yanking my chain!! 46 minutes ago, Double OKP said: Wait...the chi-rho symbol originated from Emperor Constantine and his army seeing a vision of a cross in the sky. And, in Kingdom Hearts, χ has been pronounced as 'cross' (Union χ[Cross]). ? (but that might just be a coincidence 'cause I think people do sometimes say 'x' as 'cross'. The main things to take away from the X are all the things Xehanort said about it in BBS. We know that all that stuff is for sure. If there's an additional meaning, I'd bet it's the most obvious one, which is how both X's are used as a symbol to represent the word "Christ." (Like in "x-mas", short for "Christmas.") So, yeah, it means death and endings like Xehanort said, but it could also represent the savior at the same time. KH also referred to it as the "recusant's sigil." "Recusant" is an old word for someone who would refuse to attend church. In Japanese, the word is "heresy." A heretic is a person who holds beliefs that go against the teachings of a faith and/or renounces the faith's beliefs. So, if the MoM has an X in his name, and if we combine everything we know... That could be some Antichrist shit. I think I can see how the MoM could be considered a heretic. He's supposed to be light, but he holds some contrary believes and does some things that don't seem very light-worthy. As for "cross"... Yep! People use "X" to mean "cross." It's like how the X in "Capcom x Namco" is said as "cross" because it's a crossover game. If I had to guess, I'd assume that it's called "Union Cross" because wielders from other unions were allowed to intermingle and participate together instead of being totally separate like before. So they're intersecting. Like a crossroads. Crossing paths. Now that I'm thinking about it... All things considered, I feel like it would be weird (or maybe just a shame) if the MoM didn't have an X in his name. lol (Doesn't have to be in his original name or whatever, just as long as he has an X in his name at some point.) Edited February 1, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 1, 2021 14 hours ago, setsugekka said: Well, he follow it up with "I'm a Lost Master." If his name is "Superbia", I think YMX might have immediately recognized him as one of those ancient masters who mysteriously disappeared, which is why he looked surprised. I think it makes sense for it to be a name he would've heard. ...But if that's the case, I'm not sure it would still be necessary to hide it from us?? If he said "Superbia" why would that still be a secret when it feels so obvious?? idk... Maybe the game's treating us like we're stupid. lol "Bet you haven't guessed what his name is!" Yeah, that's what I find off. If Xehanort knew, how come we don't??? lol 14 hours ago, setsugekka said: If there's an additional meaning, I'd bet it's the most obvious one, which is how both X's are used as a symbol to represent the word "Christ." (Like in "x-mas", short for "Christmas.") So, yeah, it means death and endings like Xehanort said, but it could also represent the savior at the same time. KH also referred to it as the "recusant's sigil." "Recusant" is an old word for someone who would refuse to attend church. In Japanese, the word is "heresy." A heretic is a person who holds beliefs that go against the teachings of a faith and/or renounces the faith's beliefs. Ah right...totally forgot about 'the recusant'. But seriously, what's χSuper supposed to mean then??? 14 hours ago, setsugekka said: So, if the MoM has an X in his name, and if we combine everything we know... That could be some Antichrist shit. I think I can see how the MoM could be considered a heretic. He's supposed to be light, but he holds some contrary believes and does some things that don't seem very light-worthy. Ooh....perhaps that's why he's on the side of darkness, in terms of the chess board I mean. 14 hours ago, setsugekka said: So they're intersecting. Like a crossroads. Crossing paths. Immediately, the crossroad at the Keyblade Graveyard popped into my head. lol 14 hours ago, setsugekka said: Now that I'm thinking about it... All things considered, I feel like it would be weird (or maybe just a shame) if the MoM didn't have an X in his name. lol (Doesn't have to be in his original name or whatever, just as long as he has an X in his name at some point.) Yeah.....though, the box does add χ to Super........just give us his name already!!! Wait.... I just realized(or is it that I'm dumb)... Those chess pieces that appear alongside Sora's piece when Eraqus says "Some light comes from past". Their symbols are the keychain for Starlight. WHO ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO BE??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 2, 2021 13 minutes ago, Double OKP said: Ah right...totally forgot about 'the recusant'. But seriously, what's χSuper supposed to mean then??? It almost sounds like what I'd expect an ultimate version of the X-blade to be called or something. idk... I get the feeling it's going to be one of those things where Nomura comes up with a weird reason for why it says that and we'll just be like "Sure... I guess it could mean that..." There are many ways to interpret the word "super" and I wouldn't put it past him to go with something that pushes it. For instance, interpreting it like super->above->sky->Final World->Quadratum. lmao TWO CAN PLAY THIS GAME, NOMURA. You know how Luxu responded with "But why?" when the MoM apparently whispered what was in the box? I just sat here thinking about his Japanese line for a while, trying to see if I could get anything else out of it, but... Nope. It's more or less the same. lol *sigh* Please, Nomura... We need a little more info for this one... 20 minutes ago, Double OKP said: Those chess pieces that appear alongside Sora's piece when Eraqus says "Some light comes from past". Their symbols are the keychain for Starlight. WHO ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO BE??? I got really confused for a second because I was like "Wait, but that's not in the epilogue..." That scene occurred right before the "light from the past" showed up to help Sora, right? I think it was just meant to symbolize the various wielders from the past who suddenly appeared like that. 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, setsugekka said: I get the feeling it's going to be one of those things where Nomura comes up with a weird reason for why it says that and we'll just be like "Sure... I guess it could mean that..." There are many ways to interpret the word "super" and I wouldn't put it past him to go with something that pushes it. For instance, interpreting it like super->above->sky->Final World->Quadratum. lmao TWO CAN PLAY THIS GAME, NOMURA. Yeah, it's probably going to turn out that way. LOL that would be extreme confusion! Oh wait.....speaking of Latin and sky, I wonder if Scala Ad Caelum has to do anything with this.....it is the Stairway to the Sky after all. 5 hours ago, setsugekka said: You know how Luxu responded with "But why?" when the MoM apparently whispered what was in the box? I just sat here thinking about his Japanese line for a while, trying to see if I could get anything else out of it, but... Nope. It's more or less the same. lol *sigh* Please, Nomura... We need a little more info for this one... That line always gets me like "And whaaaat's that supposed to mean?" Hmm.......if Xigbar/Luxu saying that Keyblade wielders have been protecting it since way back when is true, that could only mean that those Keyblade wielders don't know that they're protecting what's in the box. Right...? It's also possible Luxu doesn't know exactly what's in it as the MoM only 'indulged' him, and judging from Luxu's reaction he didn't give him a direct answer. HMMM....... 5 hours ago, setsugekka said: That scene occurred right before the "light from the past" showed up to help Sora, right? I think it was just meant to symbolize the various wielders from the past who suddenly appeared like that. Yeah, the scene that occurs right after the scene when the Guardians of Light die. Hmm...that could be what that was. Maybe because it was seven, it symbolized it was all those wielders(because seven symbolizes completeness). I was reading Maleficent's character file and there was one mysterious line: Quote The mark on that box is — ? Edit: I just reached the part in the KHIII Novel Vol.3 where Sora is talking to the Nameless Star. And there's something reeeaaally interesting: Spoiler Quote Her strong conviction reminded Sora of someone... But who? Who did she remind him of? "Good. You have to believe." Sora looked closely at the glowing apparition. She really doesn't give up - it's a lot like Aqua. But there's someone else she makes me think of more... [Later when their conversation ends]: Who was she? I feel like he was thinking of Kairi...but I'm not sure. Edited February 2, 2021 by Double OKP 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Double OKP said: LOL that would be extreme confusion! Oh wait.....speaking of Latin and sky, I wonder if Scala Ad Caelum has to do anything with this.....it is the Stairway to the Sky after all. I've been playing FFIV for the first time recently and I've been kinda amazed at how much of it seems like it could've inspired KH1. I just got done playing the part with the Tower of Babil which is obviously based on the Tower of Babel. Scala ad Caelum, "stairway to the sky", is a reference to the Tower of Babel as well. Golbez used the tower to summon a massive machine from the moon. (...Kingdom Hearts? lol) FFIV is really old, so I can't say it has the greatest use of symbolism. I have more faith in whatever KH is going to do with it. All I know is that the Tower of Babel is usually used as a symbol of humanity's hubris. The tower was built higher and higher so people could see God in heaven. A thought has passed through my mind before... Have you ever noticed that Scala kinda looks like the Final World? It almost looks like it was built there or was meant to resemble it. I'm sure that's not just a coincidence, but I wonder why it's like that... 17 minutes ago, Double OKP said: I was reading Maleficent's character file and there was one mysterious line: I actually hadn't read hers yet. Personally, I think this line is more concerning: Quote Within the data, or may perhaps within sleep, I act only for myself. WITHIN SLEEP? Is she saying that the data Daybreak Town WAS also a dream like we've been wondering? I don't think she ever went into any of the sleeping worlds in DDD. She was just there to take Minnie hostage for the B plot. lol The word "mark" makes me think she's talking about the X. We're probably overthinking it because we already noticed it there. So maybe that line was just meant to draw the average player's attention to it, like "Hey, if you hadn't noticed, there's an X and some writing on that box!" The meaning is still as mysterious as before. Now for something different... I know that Nomura thinks about the kanji he uses, so I suddenly got curious about the words we've heard YMX use. I know of a handful of words that mean "empty" that include the kanji for "sky." I just thought for sure that if Nomura intended for the "abyss" or "emptiness" to have a personal connection to Sora, he would've used a word like "kuukyo" (空虚, void) or "kokuu" (虚空, empty space), but it seems like that's actually not the case. It's so weird because those words are literally just... Look at them. It's the same two kanji and you just make them trade places. Would've been perfect... Kinda gives me the impression that he intentionally swerved around them to avoid the association to Sora. The word that YMX used for "emptiness" was "kyomu" (虚無, nothingness). You can also use it to make the word "kyomukan" which is a sense or feeling of emptiness. As Xehanort was walking through the darkness, he could feel people's negative thoughts and feelings. So something more frightening than those feelings would be to feel nothing at all. ...It sounds really good and poetic, so I hope that's right. lol It's basically where my thoughts already were since I'm always staring directly at Demyx. (Can't let him out of my sight.) Just a note, but when YMX says the line in JP khdr, the word is even in quotation marks to signify that it's an important word of interest. Good to know. I was actually thinking about Jack's Power of Ignorance first. The kanji for "ignorance" can also be used to make the word "unenlightened." Vewwy intewesting. 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 2, 2021 14 hours ago, setsugekka said: I've been playing FFIV for the first time recently and I've been kinda amazed at how much of it seems like it could've inspired KH1. I just got done playing the part with the Tower of Babil which is obviously based on the Tower of Babel. Scala ad Caelum, "stairway to the sky", is a reference to the Tower of Babel as well. Golbez used the tower to summon a massive machine from the moon. (...Kingdom Hearts? lol) FFIV is really old, so I can't say it has the greatest use of symbolism. I have more faith in whatever KH is going to do with it. All I know is that the Tower of Babel is usually used as a symbol of humanity's hubris. The tower was built higher and higher so people could see God in heaven. Ohhhh I get it. When God saw what the people were doing, he gave them different tongues [of language]. And according to Xehanort, Scala is the nexus from which all worlds spring....ahh i see... 14 hours ago, setsugekka said: A thought has passed through my mind before... Have you ever noticed that Scala kinda looks like the Final World? It almost looks like it was built there or was meant to resemble it. I'm sure that's not just a coincidence, but I wonder why it's like that... Oh yeah! If all the buildings were removed, then it would totally look like it. Hmm.... 14 hours ago, setsugekka said: I actually hadn't read hers yet. Personally, I think this line is more concerning: Gosh, can't believe I read over that line lol. HMMM.....wait...can you dream in a Dream World(I guess I've had a dream in a dream but still, in Kingdom Hearts....)? 15 hours ago, setsugekka said: I know that Nomura thinks about the kanji he uses, so I suddenly got curious about the words we've heard YMX use. I know of a handful of words that mean "empty" that include the kanji for "sky." I just thought for sure that if Nomura intended for the "abyss" or "emptiness" to have a personal connection to Sora, he would've used a word like "kuukyo" (空虚, void) or "kokuu" (虚空, empty space), but it seems like that's actually not the case. It's so weird because those words are literally just... Look at them. It's the same two kanji and you just make them trade places. Would've been perfect... Kinda gives me the impression that he intentionally swerved around them to avoid the association to Sora. The word that YMX used for "emptiness" was "kyomu" (虚無, nothingness). You can also use it to make the word "kyomukan" which is a sense or feeling of emptiness. As Xehanort was walking through the darkness, he could feel people's negative thoughts and feelings. So something more frightening than those feelings would be to feel nothing at all. ...It sounds really good and poetic, so I hope that's right. lol It's basically where my thoughts already were since I'm always staring directly at Demyx. (Can't let him out of my sight.) iNtErEsTiNg......i just got confused with that emptiness/nothingness all over again. (how do you even read kanji it looks very confusing) I was watching Everglow's Japanese translated KHUX scene where the MoM talks about the Dandelions starting at χ...and it's pretty different from NA. Quote The starting point as χ, their training in Unchained, and the real thing in Union Cross. Now here it totally sounds like the MoM is talking like KH is a game. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: And according to Xehanort, Scala is the nexus from which all worlds spring....ahh i see... INTERESTING... YOU'RE RIGHT... Maybe they were trying to create their own version of Daybreak Town, a world that can connect to all other worlds...? 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: Gosh, can't believe I read over that line lol. HMMM.....wait...can you dream in a Dream World(I guess I've had a dream in a dream but still, in Kingdom Hearts....)? Yeah, it seems like you can. It's just wild to think that there could be a data world in a dream world... 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: iNtErEsTiNg......i just got confused with that emptiness/nothingness all over again. (how do you even read kanji it looks very confusing) I think we're on the right track! Just seeing the fact that it had quotation marks around it in the JP version was enough to assure me that we weren't making something out of nothing. (There's a lot of kanji I have to look up. I understand Japanese by ear, but I'm still not the best at reading it. lol I think kanji's a bit easier when you realize that a lot of words are compounds, though. You start knowing what to look for after a while. Also, I just really love words.) 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Now here it totally sounds like the MoM is talking like KH is a game. Oh yeah! I remember when I first heard that, that was my first thought. If anyone would be aware that they're in a game, it'd be him. I just realized that I somehow went this entire thread without mentioning something I found really interesting about Jack. From his profile in Type-0's Rubicus: Quote Jack may come off as a real goofball, but he only acts the way he does for his siblings' sake. He feels that it's his duty to keep everyone's spirits up. If Jack were the only living soul left in Orience, though, he would be leading a much more detached life. One can catch a glimpse of his fundamental stoicism when watching him in the field, where a single slice from his katana determines the outcome of battle. The word that interests me here is "stoicism." In a number of his Japanese profiles, they call him "stoic", actually using the English word. I assume they're referring to Stoic philosophy. The wikipedia page is a bit dense and inaccessible, so here's a video that puts it all into perspective. It's basically about accepting the things you can't change and being happy in your current condition, enjoying the present for what it is without worrying about what may come in the future. In its everyday use, "stoic" means "a person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining." There's this whole scene in Type-0 that works as an example. Everyone was getting depressed about how bad the situation had gotten, but Jack convinced them that there was no use in wasting their time worrying. "If we stay positive, we can picture a brighter future!" seems to be his trademark quote. I feel like the MoM's conversation with Ira is the best example of the MoM adhering to the same philosophy. 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 3, 2021 4 hours ago, setsugekka said: It's just wild to think that there could be a data world in a dream world... Oh wait...in Dream Drop Distance, YMX tells Sora in The Grid: Quote Data does not dream, cannot dream. This world is real. But...Master Yen Sid told Sora and Riku that there were seven Sleeping Worlds. If The Grid was excluded from the Worlds in KHDDD, then that would only be six Sleeping Worlds. And there's something else that contradicts this: Sora is still in his dream form; he doesn't look like his real self. Also, Xemnas says that The Grid is the original data of the system where Ansem the Wise copied the MCP; however, in KHII, Tron says the original system was destroyed. It seems like YMX was wrong about it not being a dream, but he could be right about it being a data world. Though, if 'data' Daybreak Town is indeed like The Grid, it is a data world dreaming, what explains the pods? To leave the Realm of Sleep one needs to wake up(if it were data dreaming, I would find it ironic that [Player] wakes up in it after the Keyblade War). But...Maleficent left through the pod to cross to the real world, she didn't wake up like it should be for a normal Sleeping World. ...Or is it just that it isn't normal? In that scene YMX says this next: Quote You haven't the slightest idea where you are - that you have already wandered off the path. HMM.... Also in that scene [earlier]: Quote Xemnas: The bits and bytes that have made up your life so far - can you say for sure they are not just copies of someone else's? Sora: Yes! My memories and feelings belong to me. Xemnas: You had better check. Make certain the box's contents match what's on the label...since you have been chosen. The 'box's contents' line is referring to Ventus, Xion, and Roxas's hearts within Sora's but the top line...was Xemnas just saying that too confuse Sora or did he actually mean something? I feel like KHDDD has clues for Phase II 'cause of its involvement with dreams and all. Oh wait... That scene where Master Ava is telling the Dandelions about their mission. Ava says this: Quote Today you're here to continue with your training for our mission. This session may seem like it's familiar to you, but in a world that is different, one made of dreams... (There truly is so many scenes that I can't remember all of them, even the important ones) Is this referring to the world that the Dandelions escaped to during the Keyblade War or the world in KHUX? Me lost Also in that scene, Ava tells them to not fight in the War but to flee to the world outside. Hmm... 5 hours ago, setsugekka said: I think we're on the right track! Just seeing the fact that it had quotation marks around it in the JP version was enough to assure me that we weren't making something out of nothing. (There's a lot of kanji I have to look up. I understand Japanese by ear, but I'm still not the best at reading it. lol I think kanji's a bit easier when you realize that a lot of words are compounds, though. You start knowing what to look for after a while. Also, I just really love words.) In Terra's character file, he describes the place he was in while his body was possessed by Xehanort: Quote It wasn’t in the darkness, so maybe it was just in a world of “nothingness”. A world without Darkness or Light. You can’t have light without darkness and you can’t have darkness without light. It was somewhere like that. I wasn’t asleep like Ven was. It wasn’t the Realm of Sleep—I wasn’t dreaming, I was just in a world of nothingness. ...The void was like the darkness, but also not. Nothing could spring forth from there. It really seems like there is a Realm of Nothingness in reality. HMMM...me don't know. I recently started learning Japanese(with online resources) and was starting to dread kanji. Now I feel better. lol 5 hours ago, setsugekka said: From his profile in Type-0's Rubicus: That really sounds like the MoM(and Demyx too). Speaking of dreams(ugh, that word), I wonder if the line at the opening of KHII will have any significance in the future. Quote A scattered dream that's like a far-off memory. A far-off memory that's like a scattered dream. I want to line the pieces up - yours and mine. KHII's box art was the one that predicted the Final World after all. 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Oh wait...in Dream Drop Distance, YMX tells Sora in The Grid: Maybe that line was just messed up. lol The Grid is considered a sleeping world. I don't know if the residents of The Grid are capable of dreaming, but the world was certainly asleep. I should probably rewatch all the cutscenes from that world, regardless. In that world, that's when Riku started questioning the significance of portals. That's ultimately what led to him realizing that Xehanort was going to try to escape from them with a portal in KH3. Until then, we'd only seen those pink/red portals in sleeping worlds. Again, I'm also totally not willing to forget the fact that Xehanort's body flickered in and out like static in Scala ad Caelum and also when he met Kairi in the Final World. It feels like that could mean that everything in the present could be a dream (the portals) AND data (the glitching.) 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: That scene where Master Ava is telling the Dandelions about their mission. Ava says this: Interesting. It seems to be the world they were sent to, which is the same as the one in khux... (Right? When you question it, it makes me question it. LOL) Which is the data Daybreak Town. As always, I had to listen to the JP version again to make sure it was the same. It's a little more specific. "You will re-experience the things you've already experienced, as if you're in a world in a dream." I mean, that's literally what she says, but a better translation would probably be "a dreaming world." (yume no naka no sekai) Events repeat within sleeping worlds, soooooo... I think we can preeeetty safely conclude that current Daybreak Town of khux is data AND a dream at this point, right? How does that work? Don't look at me. 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: The 'box's contents' line is referring to Ventus, Xion, and Roxas's hearts within Sora's but the top line...was Xemnas just saying that too confuse Sora or did he actually mean something? Not sure. lol It's definitely easy to read into a line like that... That was a pretty interesting metaphor. Once again, I checked the Japanese... It doesn't sound as provocative. In other words, it doesn't make me think about the black box. lol Xemnas just advises him to re-check what's inside of him to be sure it belongs to him. (No mention of boxes. He just uses the word for "vessel" again.) ALTHOUGH, everything he said about how data can be manipulated and copied, and how there's no way for Sora to be certain that he isn't just a copy of someone... That's the real shit. Really makes me think... We don't know how Player became Xehanort... I'm not going to say that he's a "copy", but I definitely felt something when I saw the imagery of Sora standing among a dozen copies of himself. If you apply what Xemnas said to Xehanort, it feels really different, doesn't it? It's almost like he could've been talking about himself. The thought has probably gone through his mind before - something like "If that person in my dreams was me, then has this happened before? Have there been OTHER me's? Am I just a blueprint of someone who's existed hundreds of times before?" If he had a suspicion that Sora was, say, Ephemer or something, that could've been an attempt to make Sora think about who he was. But idk. That's just one interpretation. This would even be a really easy way to explain Demyx. If everything is data, the MoM could theoretically manipulate himself. He could change his appearance at will and alter his memory. That's one way to explain his line to YMX about how he could be anything. Xemnas also says "However, for (someone) digital, no matter how many memories are piled up, feelings/emotions will never sprout." Weird. Weird for him to say that. Tron had a heart, right? All of the characters in The Grid also seem to act as though they have real feelings. Xehanort and Sora certainly have feelings. Later, they even talk about how everyone in the Organization apparently were able to feel because they began to grow hearts despite being Nobodies. *STARES AT DEMYX* HEY, BUDDY......... ARE YOU MADE OF ONES AND ZEROES?? (edit) I just suddenly remembered how before KH3, Nomura said that people should play Re:Coded because it would be important. So that reminded me that even the data versions of Sora and Riku had feelings! Like, come on, Xemnas. The whole idea that "data can't feel" seems ridiculous from all angles unless there's some other reason for why he said that. ........Or maybe it's just a garbage line, idk. 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: It really seems like there is a Realm of Nothingness in reality. HMMM...me don't know. I'm thinking about the new Darkside and getting excited again. lol 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Speaking of dreams(ugh, that word), I wonder if the line at the opening of KHII will have any significance in the future. Well, I think it was supposed to be referring to the beginning of KH2 where Kairi was struggling to remember Sora after the memory of him was "scattered", so to speak. But who knows, all these things could always get repurposed and find new meanings. You had a lot of good finds here. Much to think about. The Grid was definitely chosen for a reason... Edited February 3, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) (I was going to reply last midnight but got tired lol) 13 hours ago, setsugekka said: Maybe that line was just messed up. lol The Grid is considered a sleeping world. I don't know if the residents of The Grid are capable of dreaming, but the world was certainly asleep. Yeah, it probably was. Like y'okay there, Xemnas, YMX? YMX, you told Sora that he doesn't have the slightest idea where he is but I think that line applies to you. LOL 13 hours ago, setsugekka said: It's a little more specific. "You will re-experience the things you've already experienced, as if you're in a world in a dream." I mean, that's literally what she says, but a better translation would probably be "a dreaming world." (yume no naka no sekai) Events repeat within sleeping worlds, soooooo... I think we can preeeetty safely conclude that current Daybreak Town of khux is data AND a dream at this point, right? How does that work? Don't look at me. That's WAY more specific(and makes much more sense). That could only mean the world of Unchained χ(because they re-experienced everything pre-Keyblade War), and in other words, Union χ[Cross]. And it has to be data as well because of those glitches. ...Darkness told Maleficent that she had to leave her body behind. But you can't have your body in a dream! And also Maleficent didn't travel there with her body; she used the method that MX taught her, which requires you to leave your body behind(actually, wasn't her body legit destroyed in KHI?). So what's the point of telling Maleficent that in the first place(or is it just Nomura explaining to us what the normal circumstances would be under normal conditions)? But then...HOW IN THE WORLD DID SHE GET BACK TO THE REAL WORLD WITH A BODY?! Don't worry, I'm not looking at you, but at Nomura(no, more like: *stares demandedly at Nomura*) 13 hours ago, setsugekka said: We don't know how Player became Xehanort... Speaking of them, remember that vision that [Player] had? The one where he saw the future where the Thirteen Seekers of Darkness and the Seven Guardians of Light faced off at the crossways at the Keyblade Graveyard(except they were all shadowed figures obviously to not spoil KHIII)? I've always wondered how [Player] saw that. But it makes so much more sense with [Player]'s connection to Xehanort...... 13 hours ago, setsugekka said: I just suddenly remembered how before KH3, Nomura said that people should play Re:Coded because it would be important. So that reminded me that even the data versions of Sora and Riku had feelings! Like, come on, Xemnas. The whole idea that "data can't feel" seems ridiculous from all angles unless there's some other reason for why he said that. ........Or maybe it's just a garbage line, idk. He did? Now that just reminded me of Maleficent talking about the connection between Jiminy's Journal and the Book of Prophecies. I think that section in The Grid was messed up. Like, YMX didn't even know what he was talking about. LOL 13 hours ago, setsugekka said: I'm thinking about the new Darkside and getting excited again. lol I just searched up 'Darkside' on KHWiki and looked at the KHIII section for it, which says that when Sora begins his Dive to the Heart, he unknowingly passes into the edges of the Final World where he meets that Darkside. I went to the 'Dive to the Heart' section...which says that Dive to Heart is a place framed as a place within a dream(this worddddddd), and the citation for that was Nomura saying in the KHIII Ultimania that the Station of Waking is reached via a 'state of sleep'(seems like this could be going somewhere...). It seems like that tutuorial section took place in Sora's dream...but why would that Darkside look like that? HMMMM... edit: I went to the Journal Entries for the Darkside and the one for KHIII was THIS: Quote A colossal Heartless that arose before Sora in a land of endless sea and sky. It looks different from other Darksides Sora has battled with, but the cause remains a mystery. There's, there's SOMETHING incredibly important about it. Speaking of Station Awakenings, I find it strange that Sora and Ventus's are the only ones(excluding the Princesses of Heart) where they are portrayed in a sleeping state. Ventus's makes sense because he has yet to 'wake up' to his original self, but Sora? Why is he in a sleeping state? 13 hours ago, setsugekka said: Well, I think it was supposed to be referring to the beginning of KH2 where Kairi was struggling to remember Sora after the memory of him was "scattered", so to speak. But who knows, all these things could always get repurposed and find new meanings. Oh I see(I can never decipher those, they're too mysterious lol). Now I'm thinking about the KHIII opening line. Who was he referring to when he said 'they'? Darkness? 13 hours ago, setsugekka said: You had a lot of good finds here. I actually went back to watch that Unchained theory video(that I'd said I'd finish but forgot lol. The theory didn't really make sense though) which is where Secret Reports(the channel name) mentioned that Ava scene and Tron saying the original system was destroyed. So it wasn't entirely me on my own I completely forgot that Demyx's Organization title was 'Melodious Nocturne', and in Japanese(according to KHWiki) is literally Nocturnal Melody. In fact, I keep forgetting that he uses instruments as weapons lolll. It would really make sense for his name to be a form of 'Melody'. I'm curious as to what his 'real' name would be; without the sigil. Edited February 3, 2021 by Double OKP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: HOW IN THE WORLD DID SHE GET BACK TO THE REAL WORLD WITH A BODY?! Apparently her body was able to be reassembled because the fairies remembered her. Very strange, now that I think about it... Like, why should it work like that? She technically DIED, but she was able to come back just because the fairies thought about her? It's almost like the fairies knew something that everybody else doesn't. lol Remember, they were like "No, don't think about her!" Back when it was just KH2, I figured it was a ~magical Maleficent thing~ like how saying "Bloody Mary" a number of times in front of a mirror in the dark is supposed to summon a ghost. Darkness made it sound like anybody can do that, though. Unless I'm missing something, this seems weird. *also stares at Nomura* 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: It seems like that tutuorial section took place in Sora's dream...but why would that Darkside look like that? HMMMM... I knew that the dive to the heart and Final World were supposed to be within reach of each other because of what Chirithy told Sora. That tutorial scene seemed like it was supposed to be like the one from KH1 where Sora makes the choice that determines your stats and then he gets attacked by a Darkside. I forget if I said, but one of my first assumptions was that the new Darkside (and the wave) appeared due to the fact that Sora dived too deep with the Power of Waking and ended up in that abyss YMX was talking about. The wave took him from the dive to the heart over to the Final World... I feel like that wave has a will of its own (or is following someone's will *side-eyes the MoM*), so I figure it did that for a reason. Remember, Ansem the Wise described the fictional world in the same way that Terra described the nothingness, as being neither darkness nor light. So the Darkside could've also been in the Final World because they were close to the fictional world at that point. Just based on what we've gathered so far, it seems like "emptiness" and "fiction" could be connected, at least in the sense that they're both things that aren't darkness or light. Doesn't necessarily make them the same thing, but I can't say that it's impossible. 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: Now I'm thinking about the KHIII opening line. Who was he referring to when he said 'they'? Darkness? Maybe it's referring to Sora's current situation, but I find the sound of Yozora's predicament a lot more precarious. The star girl said that his heart had been replaced by another's. That's some spooky-sounding shit. So, "they can take your heart" sounds like Yozora to me. "Cut you loose from all you know" sounds like Sora. But then what's "they can take your world" referring to? This is probably totally wrong, but a part of me had wondered... If the MoM was literally supposed to be JACK (the KH equivalent, at least), then what if he came from a different game, like Agito, that had been permanently shut down? I questioned why the world of KH would seem so similar if it was a different world/new game, but maybe it's NOT. What if it's ALL Agito's sleeping world???? idk... *stares into space* 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: I completely forgot that Demyx's Organization title was 'Melodious Nocturne', and in Japanese(according to KHWiki) is literally Nocturnal Melody. In fact, I keep forgetting that he uses instruments as weapons lolll. It would really make sense for his name to be a form of 'Melody'. I'm curious as to what his 'real' name would be; without the sigil. The fact that he uses water and music, two pertinent symbols... Very sus. 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, setsugekka said: Apparently her body was able to be reassembled because the fairies remembered her. Very strange, now that I think about it... Like, why should it work like that? She technically DIED, but she was able to come back just because the fairies thought about her? It's almost like the fairies knew something that everybody else doesn't. lol Remember, they were like "No, don't think about her!" Back when it was just KH2, I figured it was a ~magical Maleficent thing~ like how saying "Bloody Mary" a number of times in front of a mirror in the dark is supposed to summon a ghost. Darkness made it sound like anybody can do that, though. Unless I'm missing something, this seems weird. Oh I completely forgot about that! Darkness said the requirements to time-travel were 1). Have a medium to form a body 2). Have someone with memories of you. So I think she was able to come back because her cloak was the medium and the fairies were the ones to remember her(makes me wonder how the raven knew that. It brought the cloak to the fairies purposefully...). Wait...if the fairies forgot, then what about Sora and the others??? Did they too??? And wait...what were the Union Leaders' mediums??? 34 minutes ago, setsugekka said: Just based on what we've gathered so far, it seems like "emptiness" and "fiction" could be connected, at least in the sense that they're both things that aren't darkness or light. Doesn't necessarily make them the same thing, but I can't say that it's impossible. The Realm of Emptiness has to be in the Realm Between, so the used-to-be Nobodies(Ienzo, Even, etc.) should be familiar with it...right? I just don't get why they didn't think about that. Instead Ienzo thought about the Realm of Darkness! Like, whaa?? (When Terra is filled in on the situation, maybe he can tell them about the 'emptiness'.) Hmm...I'm not sure how fiction can be neither light nor darkness. If someone imagined up a fictional story, there would be a bad guy, right? So that bad guy would most likely have a heart of darkness...but if there's no light nor darkness in that realm they are imagined up in, then how's that possible??? I guess we don't know what it means for a world to have neither light nor darkness, but still.... I'm curious as to what Nomura's plans are for unreality. 34 minutes ago, setsugekka said: But then what's "they can take your world" referring to? HMMMM......I can't think of anything lol I was reading the KHIII journal entry for Young Xehanort and it is: Quote A member of the real Organization XIII. This is Master Xehanort's younger self. He has traveled forward through time more than once in order to guide Sora. To 'guide' Sora....? Seriously, what DOES he know? These journal entries are very mysterious. Like Yozora's: Quote A young man who was destined to meet Sora. His true identity is shrouded in mystery. HMMMM I'm not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but the Gigas symbol looks similar to the Unversed symbol. Actually, it could look like a Dream Eater symbol too... Edited February 4, 2021 by Double OKP 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, Double OKP said: And wait...what were the Union Leaders' mediums??? Hm... Good question. If they lacked mediums, maybe that's what caused the memory loss for them? But then, I feel like the whole thing shouldn't have worked at all if they didn't have a medium like Maleficent did... Weird. btw, this concept REALLY reminds me of something from Type-0. After Kurasame dies, everyone forgets he existed. (As is always the case because of the Crystal erasing memories of the dead.) Kazusa, his closest friend, was left with a feeling that something was missing. After digging around, he discovered that Kurasame had been his friend. Kazusa is a scientist, so he started conducting an experiment to bring Kurasame back from the dead. He determined that what you'd need is a thing that belonged to the person (a medium) and people's memories of the person. He realized that even if everyone's memories of Kurasame were erased, he couldn't be erased completely. Everyone had different experiences with him that affected them in many different ways, so there was always a trace of him left behind. He had Naghi (a student from Class Ninth, the secret agent group) go out to retrieve one of Kurasame's eyes from his corpse in the battlefield. He used that to extract a few of Kurasame's own memories, then it's implied that he also somehow extracted memories from Class Zero and other people around the school. He succeeds in bringing Kurasame back, but he faded away almost immediately without even speaking. Quote Kazusa: I attempted to use his Knowing Tag as a catalyst to fix his consciousness, but it was no use.Kazusa: The question is: what makes the best medium?Kazusa: I refuse to give up. The experiment has proved that my theory is sound.Kazusa: Memories are stored in the flesh, and memories give shape to character.Kazusa: I'm going to continue my research until I can talk to him again. Aaand that's where that side story ended! *YELLS* tbh, the pods strike me as something Kazusa would've come up with. I'm so curious about that machine. I hope we find out who made it. 40 minutes ago, Double OKP said: Hmm...I'm not sure how fiction can be neither light nor darkness. If someone imagined up a fictional story, there would be a bad guy, right? So that bad guy would most likely have a heart of darkness...but if there's no light nor darkness in that realm they are imagined up in, then how's that possible??? I guess we don't know what it means for a world to have neither light nor darkness, but still.... Remember what Tabata said about Cid Aulstyne? Even though he's what you'd think of as the "villain" of Type-0, he isn't someone you can necessarily call a villain because his actions weren't based on good or evil. From the perspective of the people in Milites, he's their hero. There are no good guys or bad guys in Type-0, just people who are doing what they have to in order to survive and protect the people they care about. Agito XIII and Versus XIII seem like they were going to be stories where there was no true good or evil. Which brings me back to what Trey said in Agito about light and darkness being "synonymous" in their world... 45 minutes ago, Double OKP said: To 'guide' Sora....? Seriously, what DOES he know? Nice, nice... Remember my idea about how Xehanort's role was to become a formidable obstacle for Sora to overcome so that he could become the savior of the world? Part of that role would probably include "fattening Sora up" so to speak. lol Gotta make him stronger so he stands a chance. Xigbar seemed to be doing the same thing. 49 minutes ago, Double OKP said: I'm not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but the Gigas symbol looks similar to the Unversed symbol. Actually, it could look like a Dream Eater symbol too... Oh yeah, you mentioned that and then I forgot to look it up. lol Do you mean the symbol on their head/helmet pieces? At first, I didn't think it looked too similar, but when I look at it next to the Unversed symbol, it really does look close. Hm... Not sure if it's just a similar style or if it's actually related. I'll keep it at the back of my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
