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setsugekka

More MoM Answers Than You Even Want

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3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Since the No Name was his waypoint (or perhaps just the Gazing Eye itself?), that means he could technically go wherever the keyblade went. Which is nearly everywhere.

Yeah, he says it's just the eye. 

Wait a sec......

Some other Keyblades have the eye though. Does that mean that he could travel to where any single of those Keyblades are???

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

When Maleficent used the pod in the data world, it took her back to the real world where there were still six pods. One (the seventh) was missing. I'm still not sure who all ended up taking the pods, BUT, I think that the pods in the "real world" count as A SEPARATE SET OF PODS. So that's just something to keep in mind.

It looks that way. But........*shrugs*

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Because I can't think of any other way he would've been able to send himself off to Quadratum after that.

I've been wondering about that. From this update, it is confirmed that he never knew about it(assuming that world he talks about at the very end is Quadratum). So, how did he get there???

Uh!

Since he saw it in the future.............

we just got a foretelling of Luxu with the No Name crossing over to Quadratum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

?

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

The person in the white sheet is definitely something nobody saw coming. Uh... My first instinct says it's Ventus, but... Would that make sense?

That's what I think. Firstly, that white sheet is the exact same white sheet that Ven is wrapped in in the beginning of BBS when MX leaves him to die on Destiny Islands. That scene does happen not too long after MX finds him, after all. It'd be too much of a coincidence if it wasn't Ven, imo. 

Where that scene is taking place is probably the real world, 'cause that lab is not scratched up, like it is in the data world. And also the lifeboats seem to be of the real world, since the middle lifeboat is fully intact, and the rightmost one (the same one Maleficent took) is gone. 

But when that cutscene takes place....????

me don't know

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Personally? Me, personally? I, uh... I mean, just using my EYES... I don't think there's anything IN that sheet? Like, there's nothing physically there. I could be wrong, but... It looks like an empty sheet. If there was a person in there, I would have expected something more like a blank face with a shadow obscuring their features.

?

if there wasn't anything in there, then Luxu wouldn't be holding it the way he did (I mean, it would be empty; it would just flop). After all, it LOOKS like he's actually carrying something in it. (But i wonder why there's no face.......)

And you know, why the heck would Luxu use a lifeboat for a.....a lone SHEET????!!!!!

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

My main point here is that they wouldn't have mentioned things like "another version of yourself" if something like that wasn't going to be relevant. I haven't forgotten about it and I'm not letting it go until it's resolved.

Definitely. There's SOMETHING important about it..........

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Goes to show that Xigbar didn't "change." He was always like that. He just wasn't like that around the MoM.

When first watching that part, I was like: "Where'd this confidence and character come from?" He always seemed timid around the MoM. I'm kinda glad he was always like that. It would be kinda weird for that personality to just pop out of nowhere.

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Oh, and we found out that Ventus was the "you" who the Darklings were looking for! ...Isn't that what I said?

Yeah! The Darklings said "You" this time around instead of "Not...you". But makes me wonder....why were they still pursuing [Player] when they didn't even want them??? 

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

There are people who are still expecting to see Luxord in khux... God help them. Unless we get a flash forward to Quadratum, that's never happening.

IT'S BECAUSE OF THAT 'aNcIeNt kEyBlAdE lEgAcY' MISTRANSLATION NONSENSE!!!!!

Seriously, that's such a HUGE problem right now. I will never understand WHY the translators put THAT when that's not even what it means.

So now it seems like the theory of the Foretellers' being in Quadratum is officially out. Right?? If the MoM himself didn't know about it, there's a 99.9% chance that the Foretellers didn't either.

I'm sticking with my theory that it's just the Dandelions crossing over into the unchained realm and Yen Sid just thinks there might be a connection. 

And who knows, maybe there is!

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Anyway, sorry if that was a lot of rambling. There might've been something smart in there somewhere. lol

xD 

I do that too a lot. I just ramble off when i'm really excited. lol

Gosh, but this update, was very....very....EPIC. The compilation of mystery, action, danger, sadness.....Nomura seriously knows how to nail these things perfectly.

And that part where Lauriam says to Ven, "I can't lose you too." That hit SO HARD. Like, please Nomura....STOP BREAKING MY HEART

But man, this won't end happily ever after. The rest of the Dandelions who don't use the lifeboats will be sealed in that data world forever.

This...this is such a sad tale of lore. Very, very tragic.

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2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

So now it seems like the theory of the Foretellers' being in Quadratum is officially out. Right?? If the MoM himself didn't know about it, there's a 99.9% chance that the Foretellers didn't either.

omg, you're right... It wouldn't make much sense for them to be sent to Quadratum if the MoM wasn't even that familiar with it yet himself... The fact that they ask why they were "summoned" also makes it seem like they didn't use the Ark. I mean, if they DID, then where would they have gone? It sounded like Luxu hadn't seen them in forever. So... He summoned them from the past, but by using a method that didn't involve the Ark?

Actually, I had a thought. idk if this is related, but it is something...

Darkness mentioned how information can travel through electronic waves. That's how they (Darkness) were able to enter the data world from the outside.

My brain immediately made the connection to Jack's super speed. His move Lightning Flash is called "denkou sekka." Denkou combines the two kanji for "light" and "electricity." It means lightning, but it also refers to light from an electronic source. I'm still thinking about how the MoM was able to basically teleport himself behind Luxu in that one scene... Do you think he can travel through electronic waves the way that Darkness can? I don't know if they could use that to go to the FUTURE, but it's definitely a way to quickly go from one place to another. I thought he might've figured out that time is fake or something, so he was simply able to go to whatever point in time he wanted, but this whole update makes me think that's incorrect. This seems like a more plausible explanation for how he was able to teleport.

2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Yeah! The Darklings said "You" this time around instead of "Not...you". But makes me wonder....why were they still pursuing [Player] when they didn't even want them??? 

I think Chirithy also kind of explained that. He was thinking about how the Darklings seem to be attracted to keyblade wielders the same way the Cybugs were attracted to the beacon of light. I'm suspicious that they had a special interest in Player as well, but it might just be that they were attracted to ALL keyblade wielders for their light.

2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

And that part where Lauriam says to Ven, "I can't lose you too." That hit SO HARD. Like, please Nomura....STOP BREAKING MY HEART

I'm so glad they already gave that to us!!!!! See, I knew he'd forgive him... I'm just surprised it came so soon. lol Nice, though. Very nice. I'll take it.

2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

But man, this won't end happily ever after. The rest of the Dandelions who don't use the lifeboats will be sealed in that data world forever.

Hm. Hmm... Didn't they say that the data world was also going to end? So when it's sealed, it's destroyed, right? Because that made me wonder about Ephemer again and what might happen if he stays behind. I'm really curious about what's going to happen with him and Player.

Edited by setsugekka

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3 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Actually, I had a thought. idk if this is related, but it is something...

?

hMMMMMM......iNtErEsTiNg

5 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

I'm still thinking about how the MoM was able to basically teleport himself behind Luxu in that one scene...

I'm wondering if that might not be anything special at all. It could've simply just been warping. I don't think warping is a very special ability. Like, the Organization members warp around with ease. And also, I noticed in the fight with Darkness, if [Player] loses all HP, then the Union Leaders do a counterattack. I was watching each of their moves (i wasn't studying them, just out of fascination lol) and I saw that Lauriam warped in his attack. Well, I don't know, it just seems like warping is an ability that some people can just...just do, I guess? lol I'm not sure. But, who knows. There might be something special about it. Maybe...........

But wait........that just got my brain a-thinking.

............Where the heck did Lauriam learn how to warp??!!

He's the first Keyblade wielder of the χ era (excluding the MoM) I've ever seen actually warp (unless there's a medal special attack somewhere that has warping)

16 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Didn't they say that the data world was also going to end? So when it's sealed, it's destroyed, right? Because that made me wonder about Ephemer again and what might happen if he stays behind. I'm really curious about what's going to happen with him and Player.

Oh yeah, they did (funny how i forgot. why'd i even forget? Darkness repeated that several times already)! 

HMMMM......i'm thinking Ephemer took a lifeboat to the real world, but stayed in that time. Because it seems impossible for him to lack a body (that just sounds so weird) when there was a medium waiting in the future. 

Ah, but what about [Player]?! I seriously hope they don't end up being.....being..........:'( I can't say it aloud

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11 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

It could've simply just been warping. I don't think warping is a very special ability. Like, the Organization members warp around with ease.

Hm... You could be right, but the scene it was presented in made it seem conspicuous to me. It was very "Look at this cool thing the MoM can do!" It didn't come across as just ANY warp to me, y'know? But it could be. lol Who knows. At times, it's hard to tell if I'm reading into things more than I should be with this game.

5 hours ago, Double OKP said:

if there wasn't anything in there, then Luxu wouldn't be holding it the way he did (I mean, it would be empty; it would just flop). After all, it LOOKS like he's actually carrying something in it. (But i wonder why there's no face.......)

And you know, why the heck would Luxu use a lifeboat for a.....a lone SHEET????!!!!!

I forgot to respond to this. lol I know it SOUNDS ridiculous, but it feels like a very Anime idea to me, so it FEELS possible to me. Like, maybe there isn't a physical body in there, but there's something intangible like a heart or a ~wish~ I don't think it's likely, but it's just another possibility I'm willing to acknowledge in this case. As long as I account for every possibility, I'll never feel disappointed!

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

HMMMM......i'm thinking Ephemer took a lifeboat to the real world, but stayed in that time. Because it seems impossible for him to lack a body (that just sounds so weird) when there was a medium waiting in the future. 

If the MoM took one of the pods in the real world, then maybe that's why Ephemer couldn't go with the rest of them? Maybe he made it to the real world, but then there were only enough pods left in the real world for the others...? It's getting late over here and I can't tell if this would make sense or not...

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12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Like, maybe there isn't a physical body in there, but there's something intangible like a heart or a ~wish~ I don't think it's likely, but it's just another possibility I'm willing to acknowledge in this case. As long as I account for every possibility, I'll never feel disappointed!

HM perhaps. There are indeed many (so many) possibilities, seeing that Nomura likes to leave things extremely vague lol. 

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

If the MoM took one of the pods in the real world, then maybe that's why Ephemer couldn't go with the rest of them? Maybe he made it to the real world, but then there were only enough pods left in the real world for the others...? 

hmmmmmm........hMMMMM.....HMMMMMMM.......

that sounds entirely possible! 

This is just something that I'm very confused with. So, in that scene with Luxu and Darkness, there's only one pod gone, which was Maleficent's pod. But from what Darkness said, there shouldn't be any Masters left in that world, except Luxu. So......shouldn't the MoM have left by now?? But then, there's only one ark missing. 

Where.....where the heck is he now???

Also about that scene, I think I know the time barriers at to when it took place. Luxu's been watching the Union Leaders and obviously saw their conversations with Darkness, as he quotes how Darkness described the MoM as 'a friend'. So, that scene must have happened some time after the Union Leaders fought with Darkness.

About those 'seven crowns'........

That scene continues to baffle me. I was wondering if there was a mistranslation, so I went and typed out that one part on Google Translate (just to see, not exactly reliable, but oh well). And there is a tiny difference. The localization says:

Quote

Darkness: The seven lifeboats and the seven crowns...
MoM: For the seven lights.

According to Google Translate, in Japanese it's something like:

Quote

Darkness: Seven arks or seven crowns?
MoM: Because/that's why it's seven lights.

I don't know.....kinda gives me a different impression. But that makes me more confused lol.

The line immediately following is slightly different too. The localization left out 'seven people'. And then the next line the MoM says....it looks like there's some chunk missing?! I mean, it looks way too long just for "Anyone could wind up using them". Unfortunately, I cannot type that out; I've no clue how to find those kanji. But from what I can get from using the auto-translate camera function (which is tons more unreliable lol), it seems like the MoM says he's interested about whoever is going to use the arks or something? 

Well I don't know. I think I'm just super bugged by the localizations after that major mistranslation in KH3. I'm just like: "Was there something mistranslated?" "Is there something different?" Lol, it's just me being irritated. 

But those 'seven crowns'........do you have any idea what it could be referring to?? I certainly don't lol.

Edited by Double OKP

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2 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

This is just something that I'm very confused with. So, in that scene with Luxu and Darkness, there's only one pod gone, which was Maleficent's pod. But from what Darkness said, there shouldn't be any Masters left in that world, except Luxu. So......shouldn't the MoM have left by now?? But then, there's only one ark missing. 

Um... There's a terrible thought I've considered...

What if the number of pods doesn't matter? What if the artists just drew one background and then didn't bother changing how many pods there were in the back? I feel like that shouldn't be something they'd overlook, but... It's not adding up for me.

28 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

So, that scene must have happened some time after the Union Leaders fought with Darkness.

I think you're right about that. tbh, I'm leaning more toward the person in the sheet being Ventus, but that makes me wonder why he ended up being sent separate from the others... Still, considering his combative relationship with Xigbar in the future, it would make sense for Nomura to give the two of them a connection in the past.

Wait... Ventus must have become one with Darkness at that point, right? So... What if he was the one who wanted to stay behind? Maybe he thought that the others could escape from the darkness if he sealed it away in the past... But then Luxu took him and sent him to the future. That would give Ventus even more reason to hate his guts because Luxu ruined the noble sacrifice he was trying to make. idk, it's just an idea, but it sounds really plausible to me.

22 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

I don't know.....kinda gives me a different impression. But that makes me more confused lol.

I had to go find that line for myself. Here's how I read it, but then again, I don't know what "seven crowns" is referring to.

Darkness: Don't tell me. The seven Arks? Or perhaps (the) seven crowns?
MoM: There are seven lights, after all.

I wonder if the "crowns" are our missing piece. If the Dandelions take the Ark pods, then maybe those "crowns" are what allowed Luxu to summon the Foretellers?? I'm not sure why else Darkness would mention these "crowns" when asking how the MoM planned to make his escape. They've gotta be a separate thing that serves a similar purpose since it's something that came to mind for him.

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39 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

What if the number of pods doesn't matter? What if the artists just drew one background and then didn't bother changing how many pods there were in the back? I feel like that shouldn't be something they'd overlook, but... It's not adding up for me.

?

ooh

OOH

maybe!!!

40 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Wait... Ventus must have become one with Darkness at that point, right? So... What if he was the one who wanted to stay behind? Maybe he thought that the others could escape from the darkness if he sealed it away in the past... But then Luxu took him and sent him to the future. That would give Ventus even more reason to hate his guts because Luxu ruined the noble sacrifice he was trying to make. idk, it's just an idea, but it sounds really plausible to me.

Yeah, that makes complete sense. I found it ironic that Ven just....just hates Xigbar/Luxu when he himself was the one who saved him. 

42 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

I wonder if the "crowns" are our missing piece. If the Dandelions take the Ark pods, then maybe those "crowns" are what allowed Luxu to summon the Foretellers?? I'm not sure why else Darkness would mention these "crowns" when asking how the MoM planned to make his escape. They've gotta be a separate thing that serves a similar purpose since it's something that came to mind for him.

I totally forgot to mention, but yesterday I was looking at the section concerning crowns on the khwiki, and there's one picture that caught my eye:

bYbiuq64HZYI6wHHjIfhM0ALoqWGCbUm2UKa242rHExCjDNehPRW-P21DmnSEkq89Wed_E2zmzplGibCzyQ7j5YMLCk5k3fyEFD-rpenmAiwzVzpVLku4fJMwOV9B11Uxz6M3Xsj

According to the KHWiki, it says that this symbol is occasionally used in strategy guides for the KH series and appears to be a crown viewed...from above.

The fact that it has an 'x'.............

HMMMMMM

I don't know if this is important, but in KHI, on the ark in Hollow Bastion is this inscription:

Quote

Ones born of the heart and darkness, devoid of hearts, ravage all worlds and bring desolation. Seize all hearts and consummate the great heart. All hearts to be one, one heart to encompass all. Realize the destiny: the realm of Kingdom Hearts. The great darkness sealed within the great heart. Progeny of darkness, come back to the eternal darkness. For the heart of light shall unseal the path. Seven hearts, one Keyhole, one key to the door. The door to darkness, tied by two keys. The door to darkness to seal the light. None shall pass but shadows, returning to the darkness. Ones born of the heart and darkness, hunger for every heart until the dark door opens.

I've always wondered why this is on the ark............

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I FOUND A REALLY IMPORTANT LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was playing Dream Drop Distance today (I still can't believe I haven't even completed all the games in this series yet lol) and Ansem SOD says THIS:

Quote

Dreams hold our memories. Sleep holds our dreams. And darkness - it holds our sleep.

'Dreams hold our memories.'..............

This......this has to.............

There has to be a clue in this as to why Xehanort was dreaming about [Player]'s memories!! And I'm sure this applies to other mysteries as well..................

Time to put on my thinking cap!

edit: I was just looking at the journal entry on the Dark Inferno χ, and it says:

Quote

The darkness that erupted out of Ventus's heart and turned into an aggressive Heartless.

But the voice that was heard at the time intimated that it was "darkness" itself. What did it mean...

iNtErEsTiNg

edit: I found another interesting thing! I was watching a theory video, and the background scene was KHII's ending cinematic. And I was reading the words on Kairi's letter............

There's a particular phrase that caught my eye.

Quote

There are many worlds, but they share the same sky

one sky, one destiny.

That................that is said by Master Xehanort in the final boss battle in KHIII when he summons the χ-blade and Kingdom Hearts! He says:

Quote

There is one sky, one destiny!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!

Edited by Double OKP

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13 hours ago, Double OKP said:

There has to be a clue in this as to why Xehanort was dreaming about [Player]'s memories!!

Wow, good find. It sounds too relevant to be a coincidence. I'm really sure that this is going to be a Thing.

Actually... Man, if that's the logic, then that would make that one unexplained scene from Type-0 make sense, too. lol Everybody in the Type-0 universe is supposed to forget about the people who die, but Ace was still able to remember Izana in his dreams. It seems like that should be impossible - unless dreams actually hold memories.

There's a line from the update that I noticed and found especially telling. When talking about their plan, the MoM says that the Dandelions are seeds of light that are meant to be sown in the future to stop the darkness. That's... basically what I've been assuming this whole time. It just makes it very clear. I know that a lot of people were assuming that the MoM just wanted to let the world burn, but he didn't have a choice. The world couldn't be saved in the past. He didn't just want to end the world because he loves chaos or something. gkjhdfk

After that part, he says this:

Q4PzmF8.png

Which reminded me of a line that Tohno says in Type-0.

Quote

Tiz: The multitude of souls they have collected... All the memories that they shared... They will lead us to a world with no end, no limits.

I feel like I sort of maybe mentioned something like this before, but it really smacked me in the face... This is why Back Cover is called Back Cover. Like a book, their world has an end. It's probably why khx begins like a pop-up book. Their world can't continue past the BACK COVER. When it starts over, it's all the same, but it'll always reach the same conclusion.

edit: I was thinking about what Darkness said about traveling through electricity again... Have you heard of the "one electron universe theory"? We still haven't figured out what Xigbar was talking about in his character file when he implied that time isn't linear. This theory's train of thought could attempt to explain that as well as how two people in different world lines could be the same person.

Edited by setsugekka

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9 hours ago, setsugekka said:

There's a line from the update that I noticed and found especially telling. When talking about their plan, the MoM says that the Dandelions are seeds of light that are meant to be sown in the future to stop the darkness. That's... basically what I've been assuming this whole time. It just makes it very clear. I know that a lot of people were assuming that the MoM just wanted to let the world burn, but he didn't have a choice. The world couldn't be saved in the past. He didn't just want to end the world because he loves chaos or something. gkjhdfk

Yeah! A lot of people think he's evil, but I don't think so! This update pretty much confirmed my convictions he truly has good intentions. :D

9 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I feel like I sort of maybe mentioned something like this before, but it really smacked me in the face... This is why Back Cover is called Back Cover. Like a book, their world has an end. It's probably why khx begins like a pop-up book. Their world can't continue past the BACK COVER. When it starts over, it's all the same, but it'll always reach the same conclusion.

:O:O

OH MY GOSH!!

THAT...........THAT..............

that just popped my brain!!!

that clearly makes complete sense.

oh my gosh..........

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I found another connection between data and dreams!

After Riku defeats the Armored Ventus Nightmare, he then enters the data that Ansem the Wise hid in Sora.....yet he assumes his dream form, and that special 'dream Keyhole' appears. ....How did he manage to get in there anyway??

I was playing KHMoM, and was doing a piece that was called....uh......gosh, i can't even remember, but it was a piece that happened during the end of KHI, so the background setting was the fallen worlds and stuff. And I passed by the arks in Hollow Bastion, and literally stared and messed up because...........

I realized that there's actually five arks. 

I've always thought there were just three arks, but I guess there were two hidden in the back. It's really hard to see, but from the angle it was shown in the piece, it's clearly there. And now when I look again in the scene in the scene where Kairi uses an ark, there is indeed five, just the two in the back are....very hidden.

Five......the same number as the Union Leaders. But........why five?? Why.......why did the person who built that make five??? They clearly saw or know about the original one in Daybreak Town, which has seven. But, why did they make it two arks short?? Why did they put that description on the controls, telling about Kingdom Hearts????

WHY????????

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1 hour ago, Double OKP said:

Five......the same number as the Union Leaders. But........why five?? Why.......why did the person who built that make five???

Hm... The thought had crossed through my mind when I looked at the one in KH1. I just figured that khux retconned it by making it seven. But then... Like you said, the one that Apprentice Xehanort put Kairi in had five, didn't it? HMM... Well, if nothing else, maybe that implies that the one seen in the End of the World is the same one from Radiant Garden.

Here's what the wiki says about the End of the World:

Quote

Upon taking a world's heart, a tiny fragment of what is left of that world is sent drifting through the void of space until it eventually meets and merges with End of the World. It is, in essence, a Heartless of the destroyed worlds, as well as the location of Kingdom Hearts for worlds' hearts.

So, the pods we find there could be a "fragment", like a Heartless copy of the pods that actually remained in the castle. It feels like a slight stretch, but just slight enough to sound possible to me.

In any case, the conclusion seems to be that the Ark in the castle is different from the ones in Daybreak Town, possibly made by someone other than the MoM. I wonder if Apprentice Xehanort would've been able to construct it while he had amnesia... Could he still remember Player's memories? With the way he spoke to Kairi, it felt like he remembered the MoM's plan or something. What do you make of his behavior?

Earlier, I was falling asleep and suddenly felt like I understood how Player is Xehanort, and it might also explain how MoM is Demyx. FOLLOW ME HERE, THIS IS KINDA FUNNY... Picture a sandwich. Now, imagine you spread out all the parts of the sandwich on a table, and then you tell someone else to put it together. Chances are, they might not arrange it the same way. If they're being cheeky, they might even choose chaos and put the bread on the inside. It might end up looking weird, but all the same pieces are there. Technically, it's still the same sandwich.

So if Player used the Ark... And his body was pulled apart... What if all the pieces got rearranged when his body was reassembled and his inner self became his outer self?

edit: The only problem with this in the MoM's case is the fact that it seemed like he was the same when he showed up in YMX's time. So... Maybe if he used the Ark again after that? The No Name was supposed to be his waypoint, but the No Name didn't seem to exist during KH2 - Xemnas couldn't use the keyblade, right? So if the MoM sent himself to that time, whether he realized it or not, it would've probably done something to him, right?

Edited by setsugekka

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12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

In any case, the conclusion seems to be that the Ark in the castle is different from the ones in Daybreak Town, possibly made by someone other than the MoM. I wonder if Apprentice Xehanort would've been able to construct it while he had amnesia... Could he still remember Player's memories? With the way he spoke to Kairi, it felt like he remembered the MoM's plan or something. What do you make of his behavior?

Yeah..........according to the KHIII Secret Reports, Apprentice Xehanort regained some of his memories:

Quote

I myself have begun to reclaim my lost past thanks to these very experiments.

So, I think it's entirely possible he remembered [Player]'s memories.

But I have a problem with this.

If he built it based off the memories of [Player], how did he even get that nearly-perfect replica of it? I mean, it's not like [Player] walked around it and examined how it actually worked. In order to have built it off just memories, Apprentice Xehanort should have had great detail and information on its layout and functionality. But [Player] just used it, not actually observed it in great detail.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Earlier, I was falling asleep and suddenly felt like I understood how Player is Xehanort, and it might also explain how MoM is Demyx. FOLLOW ME HERE, THIS IS KINDA FUNNY... Picture a sandwich. Now, imagine you spread out all the parts of the sandwich on a table, and then you tell someone else to put it together. Chances are, they might not arrange it the same way. If they're being cheeky, they might even choose chaos and put the bread on the inside. It might end up looking weird, but all the same pieces are there. Technically, it's still the same sandwich.

So if Player used the Ark... And his body was pulled apart... What if all the pieces got rearranged when his body was reassembled and his inner self became his outer self?

When I first read 'sandwich' I was like: "Wait, did I just read that right?! That food that I eat so often?!" LOL ?

............That makes sense though! That makes 100% sense!!

Considering this is true, then Chirithy's words are so much more clearer!

Quote

Chirithy: That can be said for anyone. Another [you/version of yourself] could be hiding inside your heart.

In this case, Xehanort would be the other version of [Player]. And that would be how he dreams of [Player]'s memories, because it really is his memories. This also goes in line with that Ansem SOD quote. 'Dreams hold our memories.' But since Xehanort is not [Player] himself, but his other version, he can't actually 'remember' (after all, in Episode 1 of Dark Road, Xehanort says:

Quote

As if I’m experiencing a life that belonged to someone else.

). He can only dream, because dreams hold those memories. 

I will definitely be thinking about this the next time I eat a sandwich. LOL

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

edit: The only problem with this in the MoM's case is the fact that it seemed like he was the same when he showed up in YMX's time. So... Maybe if he used the Ark again after that? The No Name was supposed to be his waypoint, but the No Name didn't seem to exist during KH2 - Xemnas couldn't use the keyblade, right? So if the MoM sent himself to that time, whether he realized it or not, it would've probably done something to him, right?

HM. The difference between the Arks in Radiant Garden and the Arks in Daybreak Town are that the ones in Daybreak Town are incomplete while the Radiant Garden ones are complete. Kairi traveled across worlds with the Radiant Garden one, which makes it complete, as the MoM himself says:

Quote

Anyone who uses an unfinished ark to travel through time will lose their body.

(Translation: KHInsider) So, a complete ark can't be used to time travel. Ergo, it would be impossible for the MoM to have used the ones in Radiant Garden, because they can't traverse time. 

Hmmmm........I can think of one possiblity.

Maybe the MoM traveled through time to YMX, then immediately left to the realm of unreality? and maybe time works differently in unreality?

HMMMM...............

Okay, I think I added everything up. 

The MoM said once seven lifeboats depart, then the world will have fulfilled its purpose. Which world was he talking about? The data world or the real world? If he is talking about the data world, then it adds up. The middle lifeboat is damaged and rendered useless, so it can't depart. So.....the data world can't end just yet. And the numbers don't add up without that middle ark. The people that should use it is [Player], Ephemer, Skuld, Brain, Lauriam, and Elrena, (excluding Ventus, as I'm going with that he is the one Luxu took, and Luxu didn't use a lifeboat to traverse between the data and real; he came from the door of the lab) which is six. But without that middle ark, it is five. So, they must have repaired that ark, right?? Let's say they do. Then, they all get to the real world, and the data shuts down. Then, there are five arks in the real world. One of them stays behind, the chosen one I can't predict at the moment, but assuredly the one who passes down the No Name. But only then does it add up. So, they must've repaired the broken ark. I wonder how they did though, in the short amount of time they had.

Edited by Double OKP

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43 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

If he built it based off the memories of [Player], how did he even get that nearly-perfect replica of it? I mean, it's not like [Player] walked around it and examined how it actually worked. In order to have built it off just memories, Apprentice Xehanort should have had great detail and information on its layout and functionality. But [Player] just used it, not actually observed it in great detail.

tbh, this is something I think they can easily handwave with the excuse that Apprentice Xehanort was a scientist. So even if Player wouldn't have had the knowledge of how to recreate the Ark, Apprentice Nort would.

I suppose it's also possible that Radiant Garden is another version of Daybreak Town and the Ark was just part of the world. Therefore, all Apprentice Xehanort might've done was complete it. But that feels like more of a stretch.

6 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Ergo, it would be impossible for the MoM to have used the ones in Radiant Garden, because they can't traverse time. 

This is an INCREDIBLY good point and I feel silly for not realizing. lol Well, at least that helps get rid of an idea...

15 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Maybe the MoM traveled through time to YMX, then immediately left to the realm of unreality? and maybe time works differently in unreality?

For a second, I was really confused, but now I get what you mean...... I just hadn't considered something like that. I'm not sure if it's possible for him to do that, though. When he was talking to Darkness, he implied that he saw Quadratum, but I thought that he meant he saw it with the Gazing Eye. Do you think he would've known how to get there?

We still don't know when the KH3 secret ending took place. So maybe the MoM didn't even go directly from YMX to Quadratum.

Do you think the box has something to do with it...? We still haven't figured out its purpose. Remember what Xigbar said in his character file story about it? It seems like everything about it could be deceptive. It felt like they used the same language that they use to talk about Demyx and Player with how it might not be how it appears. But why would they talk about the box that way...?

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9 hours ago, setsugekka said:

tbh, this is something I think they can easily handwave with the excuse that Apprentice Xehanort was a scientist. So even if Player wouldn't have had the knowledge of how to recreate the Ark, Apprentice Nort would.

Hmm...yeah, I guess. Must be that.

9 hours ago, setsugekka said:

When he was talking to Darkness, he implied that he saw Quadratum, but I thought that he meant he saw it with the Gazing Eye. Do you think he would've known how to get there?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. In order for him to have seen it through the Gazing Eye is if a Gazing Eye was there at some point in time; that would mean Luxu would have had to get there with the No Name, right? Thus, the MoM should've seen how Luxu managed to get there. So, he would know how to get there....right??

In my earlier post, I said one of the people who escaped the data world would have to stay behind in the present real world, but I should correct myself. TWO people should stay behind, because the MoM has to use a lifeboat.....right??? Wait.....is that why Ephemer was the way he was in KHIII?? Is it because he stayed behind?? The two people that should stay behind, then, would be Brain and Ephemer; Brain has to pass the Master's Defender down to Eraqus, and Ephemer's lack of body is enough (to me, that is) proof that he didn't travel through time with the lifeboats.

Okay, there was a very very very tiny story update fix for KHMoM's ending?? Even though it's very small, it changes stuff. Like, something went WRONG??? But how did that effect Kairi's venture through her dream?? Was it the data Xehanort (I mean, the glitchy Xehanort)?? The researchers were doing an examination of her heart, which involved stuff with data. 

But what exactly went wrong????????

Wait, what???

Edited by Double OKP

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3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

But what exactly went wrong????????

I think it's implying that she wasn't meant to end up in the Final World. She was just supposed to be traversing her own memories, right? But she ended up in the Final World where she met Xehanort. Who knows, maybe he interfered with the process and he's what caused the error. Or maybe she slipped deeper into sleep than they intended.

btw, did you notice that her bracelet has star pendants on it? I knew that people compared Kairi to the Star Girl for some reason, but I hadn't noticed that she was also wearing stars. lol When she lifts her hand in that scene, you can see them very clearly.

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3 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

I think it's implying that she wasn't meant to end up in the Final World. She was just supposed to be traversing her own memories, right? But she ended up in the Final World where she met Xehanort. Who knows, maybe he interfered with the process and he's what caused the error. Or maybe she slipped deeper into sleep than they intended.

Hmm maybe.

But I'm still stumped with this. There's just something else..........

19 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

btw, did you notice that her bracelet has star pendants on it? I knew that people compared Kairi to the Star Girl for some reason, but I hadn't noticed that she was also wearing stars. lol When she lifts her hand in that scene, you can see them very clearly.

Uh!

That's funny, I've never noticed that! Maybe a reference to the paopu fruit?

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22 hours ago, Double OKP said:

But I'm still stumped with this. There's just something else..........

It is kinda curious that they felt the need to add that. It seems like something they added to make the scene easier to understand, but it was already pretty clear to me. So on one hand, I'm like... Was that necessary? But on the other hand, the end of KHMoM did feel like it came at us all at once. lol It was a whole lot of recapping and then suddenly things were happening. tbh, I think there should have been a lot more cutscenes in the Radiant Garden lab area dispersed throughout the game - or at least at the beginning to give us some type of introduction to what we're playing. The way it just throws you into the music stages is really abrupt.

I'm amused that what they added was just voiceover, though. Like, they wanted to add something, but they didn't even bother animating the characters. lmao

Anyway, I think I just thought of something that could simplify the MoM/Demyx situation... In the case of Player/Xehanort, sure, maybe he got torn apart and reassembled differently. But it doesn't seem like that's what happened to the MoM, right? So then, how did he end up as Demyx?

What if he's able to consciously shift from one self to the other? Demyx seems aware of the MoM on some level, but it doesn't seem like he realizes that they're the same. It might not even be that complicated for him to turn back into the MoM - maybe the MoM can reassume control whenever he wants. Obviously, I've got nothing to prove this, but I think it would work. I'd be surprised if the MoM didn't know that he had another self. If he does, you'd think he'd want to use that to his benefit.

...And if that's right - if the MoM can just take over whenever he wants - then maybe he really WAS the "dingbat in black" that Pete mentioned who told him and Maleficent about the box. I still don't know why he'd do that, but... That point is still at the back of my mind.

btw, how are we feeling about Sora=Ephemer? Because now I'm not sure. I think I might've been too bold with that one. lol It FEELS right, but I don't know if it IS right. If it's not, I'm just......... I'm just really sad that Player and Ephemer got separated and then were never involved with each other again. That'd be weird. So I hope that Ephemer is part of Sora somehow.

Edited by setsugekka

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2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

It is kinda curious that they felt the need to add that. It seems like something they added to make the scene easier to understand, but it was already pretty clear to me. So on one hand, I'm like... Was that necessary? But on the other hand, the end of KHMoM did feel like it came at us all at once. lol It was a whole lot of recapping and then suddenly things were happening. tbh, I think there should have been a lot more cutscenes in the Radiant Garden lab area dispersed throughout the game - or at least at the beginning to give us some type of introduction to what we're playing. The way it just throws you into the music stages is really abrupt.

Yeah, I have no clue why they would add that if it weren't necessary. I mean, call the VAs back just for some couple lines?? and if that weren't highly significant, then what's the point of putting it in the first place? Sure, some things felt a bit abrupt, but....just that one tiny scene?? It only adds more mystery, to me that is. lol

2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

What if he's able to consciously shift from one self to the other? Demyx seems aware of the MoM on some level, but it doesn't seem like he realizes that they're the same. It might not even be that complicated for him to turn back into the MoM - maybe the MoM can reassume control whenever he wants. Obviously, I've got nothing to prove this, but I think it would work. I'd be surprised if the MoM didn't know that he had another self. If he does, you'd think he'd want to use that to his benefit.

............We know so little of Demyx and the MoM that I don't really know what to make of all this lol. A lot of things are definitely plausible though.

2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

...And if that's right - if the MoM can just take over whenever he wants - then maybe he really WAS the "dingbat in black" that Pete mentioned who told him and Maleficent about the box. I still don't know why he'd do that, but... That point is still at the back of my mind.

Hmmmm.......honestly, I don't think he was the dingbat. He himself strictly instructed Luxu to never ever open it, but that's exactly what Maleficent wants to do. 

Gosh, I seriously want to know who the 'dingbat' is. 

Speaking of which, we should see this darn mysterious 'dingbat' in the next and final UX update. Nomura said that Maleficent-thinking-the-box-contains-a-Book would be revealed in UX, 'going forward'. Yet, we're at the final update(s). I hope Nomura didn't forget..........ay, no way he'd forget.

2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

btw, how are we feeling about Sora=Ephemer? Because now I'm not sure. I think I might've been too bold with that one. lol It FEELS right, but I don't know if it IS right. If it's not, I'm just......... I'm just really sad that Player and Ephemer got separated and then were never involved with each other again. That'd be weird. So I hope that Ephemer is part of Sora somehow.

Yeah, me too. I'm not sure if it is exactly Sora=Ephemer, but they're definitely connected, as Sora said [in the novel] "We're all connected." 

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27 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Speaking of which, we should see this darn mysterious 'dingbat' in the next and final UX update. Nomura said that Maleficent-thinking-the-box-contains-a-Book would be revealed in UX, 'going forward'. Yet, we're at the final update(s). I hope Nomura didn't forget..........ay, no way he'd forget.

OH RIGHT. That's the part I always keep forgetting, probably because I never expected it to be explained. Alright, I'll try to keep that in mind and hope that khux delivers.

Speaking of things I hope the ending delivers, I hope they show us what's under the MoM's table. There was a hatch or something under there, so... What was that for?? Why was the table hiding it?? Why did the table have the Rubrum gear on it?? It makes my mind go in all kinds of directions... Now I'm like "What if it was another means of escape!"

28 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Yeah, me too. I'm not sure if it is exactly Sora=Ephemer, but they're definitely connected, as Sora said [in the novel] "We're all connected." 

I'm even looking at Sora and Yozora differently now, too. The fact that Chirithy was thinking that Player had another self INSIDE of them is what gets me confused, though. In a way, it would make sense why Rex and Hamm treated Sora like Yozora if Yozora was somehow (even figuratively) "inside" of Sora. They might've been simply seeing him as his other self. But then later... Yozora appears as a separate person. So he couldn't have literally been inside of Sora. ...Right?

ugh, I don't know, but there's DEFINITELY something going on with that. WE'RE SO CLOSE... There's gotta be something we just don't know that would click these pieces into place.

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3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Speaking of things I hope the ending delivers, I hope they show us what's under the MoM's table. There was a hatch or something under there, so... What was that for?? Why was the table hiding it?? Why did the table have the Rubrum gear on it?? It makes my mind go in all kinds of directions... Now I'm like "What if it was another means of escape!"

OH YEAH I totally forgot about that lol. 

I'm super curious about this last update. Is the rest of the finale really gonna be in ONE update?? There's just SO MANY MYSTERIES LEFT TO RESOLVE that I can't imagine all of them being uncovered in one huge finale.

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

ugh, I don't know, but there's DEFINITELY something going on with that. WE'RE SO CLOSE... There's gotta be something we just don't know that would click these pieces into place.

Yeah, there's sOmEtHiNg. At first I was considering the possibility that Yozora was possessing Riku's body, but I think I can push that idea out (because of Yozora [saying] the 'is any of this real' stuff). Who exactly is Yozora............???

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37 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

I'm super curious about this last update. Is the rest of the finale really gonna be in ONE update?? There's just SO MANY MYSTERIES LEFT TO RESOLVE that I can't imagine all of them being uncovered in one huge finale.

It's... It's gotta be... But there's also the whole rest of Dark Road for us to look forward to, so maybe some lingering questions could also be answered there.

Speaking of which... It's hard to believe we're actually going to receive the rest of Dark Road in a timely manner. lol That sounds like it could be a mess. But I'm VERY curious to see what we get out of that. At the least, I hope that we'll find out how the Scala kids died. I also want to know more about Odin. I'd like to see new scenes with the MoM (like how he got to Scala or how he introduced himself to YMX in the first place) but idk if that's asking for too much.

38 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Yeah, there's sOmEtHiNg. At first I was considering the possibility that Yozora was possessing Riku's body, but I think I can push that idea out (because of Yozora [saying] the 'is any of this real' stuff). Who exactly is Yozora............???

Remember how the dark Chirithy told Player that he'd see them again in another dream? Hm... I wonder if that has anything to do with it... For a second, I started wondering if the world of the future was just another dream. I've had dreams where I was someone else. It sort of feels like it fits, but it still leaves me with questions.

I'm not sure how hard I should fixate on Player's Chirithy saying "inside of yourself" because I don't know how Nomura plans to define "inside." lol

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14 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Speaking of which... It's hard to believe we're actually going to receive the rest of Dark Road in a timely manner. lol That sounds like it could be a mess.

There's just something VERY suspicious about UX and DR's timing right now. Like, UX's ending announcement was super abrupt. Then, the fact that were receiving all of DR in one update is just plain.........plain suspicious. I think I know why they're doing it that way, though. If DR wasn't going to have the hugest impact on the main games, then it should have just released like UX; monthly, and taking its time, slowly like how UX was for the past five years. But the thing is, it's not like that. Which could only mean they're rushing it because it's essential to know all of DR's story in order to prepare for the next KH game. Which makes me very curious as to what the major reveals are gonna be in DR. 

14 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Remember how the dark Chirithy told Player that he'd see them again in another dream? Hm... I wonder if that has anything to do with it... For a second, I started wondering if the world of the future was just another dream. I've had dreams where I was someone else. It sort of feels like it fits, but it still leaves me with questions.

That Chirithy line.........I just..........I just don't get it lol. It confuses me whenever I try thinking about what it means. I don't know what to make of it.

But yeah, it's gotta have significance in the future. Somewhat. 

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I don't believe I mentioned this here before, but there's something really interesting in KHI's Ultimania:

Quote

Nomura:
A Secret About the Game Only I Know
The words that appear in the opening were actually words that an actual character was going to say in the ending. Please enjoy speculating who was supposed to speak those lines.

And those words were indeed said at the ending.........the ending of the Dark Seeker Saga, that is. 

HMMMMM..........................

HMMMMMMMMMMMM............................

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On 4/8/2021 at 10:08 PM, Double OKP said:

I don't believe I mentioned this here before, but there's something really interesting in KHI's Ultimania:

Nomura really loves to use every idea, doesn't he? lol Nothing goes to waste.

 

So, I've been thinking more about these "other selves" that exist within people's hearts. I think I could've been onto something when I mentioned Shadows from Persona... In other words, I think they might be the part of them that they suppress, made real within their hearts. Fictional selves. If the fictional world is a world where things are brought to life by people's imaginations, then it could even explain how Sora and Yozora could be the same even though they seem to be separate people.

The Persona series didn't invent the concept of personas and shadows. It's getting late here so I can't talk much, but I think you'll enjoy reading some of this.

edit: ok, I'm awake and I thought about this a lot more.

Quote

The persona, for Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung, was the social face the individual presented to the world—"a kind of mask, designed on the one hand to make a definite impression upon others, and on the other to conceal the true nature of the individual".

Quote

In analytical psychology, the shadow (also known as id, shadow aspect, or shadow archetype) is either an unconscious aspect of the personality that the conscious ego does not identify in itself, or the entirety of the unconscious, i.e., everything of which a person is not fully conscious. In short, the shadow is the unknown side.

Now I'm wondering... If this is on the right track, which one is Demyx? Is he the persona or the shadow? He and the MoM both possess strong negative qualities... But Demyx does seem to be entirely persona. His innocent, happy-go-lucky nature is like a mask. It fell away when he fought Sora. It might not all be a lie, but he's definitely projecting a certain personality to cover up a darker side. That would mean that the MoM is his shadow, his hidden self who even Demyx isn't aware of.

If Quadratum exists somewhere in the unconscious/dream realm, then that could be what posed the opportunity for Sora to physically meet his own shadow, Yozora.

But this is just a theory.......... a game theoryyyy.

Edited by setsugekka

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