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setsugekka

More MoM Answers Than You Even Want

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3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

It's getting exhausting trying to find all the scenes where these lines come from... But with my knowledge of Japanese, I can make a pretty confident guess that he didn't say "we." I think that was just Everglow's interpretation. I always read Cherrim's translations on the night the game is updated, then I may or may not read khinsider later. I'm pretty sure it was worded as an order directed at Luxu. I'll let you know if I come across it again.

Ah I see. I just checked KHInsider's translation and they also said 'we'.

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I think I mentioned this before, but I don't see the KH3 secret ending as a 1-to-1 depiction of things that are actually happening in Quadtratum. It's more like an artistic interpretation, like how other secret endings don't end up being exactly what happens in the story. The MoM is there to show you that he's going to be there. He may or may not be there yet. I wouldn't take that it to mean anything concrete besides "MoM will be there." lol We saw Sora and Riku walking around on the streets, and things haven't happened that way so far. We saw Sora fight Yozora and get turned into crystal. There wasn't any point where he was wandering around the streets. See what I mean?

Ah I get it. The only thing that unfolded as seen in the secret ending was Riku's side, because it was revealed that that was his dream. Speaking of which, the avenue Riku was walking on when he felt someone[Yozora] watching him from way up high is called Fureai-Dori Ave, which according to Google Translate, which is mostly unreliable, translates to 'touching'. I'm not sure if that's correct, but would that have any significant meaning?

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I think that must have been what Luxu was referring to in his secret report when he talked about the Foretellers' power to send the Dandelions to another world line. Even if it's data, I guess it still counts. That's what I was wondering about, though. I don't think it's the same as the Power of Waking or anything... I wondered if it involved a machine like the one in the Twilight Town mansion, but that wouldn't make sense. It's supposed to be a power that only masters can use...

Since the Dandelions' memories were swiped, they wouldn't remember the process but the Union Leaders would've, right? That's what I find mysterious. So first they went to the unchained realm before the Keyblade War, then when the War passed, they supposedly 'returned' to their world but they ended up not actually. Before the Keyblade War, the Keyblade wielders had traversed to worlds from the future, made out of data, projected by the Book of Prophecies. In order to get to those worlds, they first traversed to the data copy of Daybreak Town, then went to the other data worlds. But the Dandelions ended up getting stuck in this 'data Daybreak Town', and Brain informs the others that they can't return to the real world using the normal ways. (Brain explains all this in 'A World Connected') So I'm not really sure how they weren't aware of this if the process was special. 

4 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I think he knew that telling her what the MoM had told him to do would emotionally damage her. ("She was silent. Jack had just thrown her into deep sadness. He who always raised her spirits, since that first day, eight years earlier..." Like that.) lbr, Luxu doesn't like her. lol I think he could tell that she was special to the MoM and that makes him jealous, so he wanted to make her self-destruct. ...So, did she? She ended up fighting in the keyblade war which was uncharacteristic for her. But it seems like everything after that is just a mystery for now. While I could still see her associating with Darkness, I know that she's also an adamant, resolute person. She may have finally decided for herself what she believed was the right thing to do.

Oh...that makes sense. In my opinion, I don't think she would associate with Darkness(but who knows? She is on the side of the chess board with the rest of the Lost Masters, which are the black chess pieces, which seem to represent darkness).

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21 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Ah I see. I just checked KHInsider's translation and they also said 'we'.

You can often say a complete sentence in Japanese without ever using a pronoun. If you understand the context, it doesn't feel confusing, but khux loves to use that ambiguity to its advantage, and that's how we end up with wildly different translations. Maybe he did mean "we" even if he didn't say it. There's no real way to know until we know. lol (Unless he actually DID say "bokutachi" or something. I still haven't looked for it. I feel annoyed just thinking about slogging through tons of videos to look for it... I literally opened a new tab and then closed the new tab. asfjhdgk) I've been dying to see what the official translation does with all the recent updates, so it's probably best to keeeep waaaaiting... 😴 

12 hours ago, Double OKP said:

She is on the side of the chess board with the rest of the Lost Masters, which are the black chess pieces, which seem to represent darkness).

Tangentially related...

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Class Zero are summoned to the Dissidia world by Materia as warriors of light, but apparently they possess "negative wills." That's how Machina ends up being summoned by Spiritus, Materia's dark counterpart who summons the villains. I just love how even Materia's like "Listen, Mog, these kids are light, but they're also kinda......... willing to do murderrr and stufff... So we gotta, like, not let them do that." That's why she summons Kurasame, their commanding officer, so he can keep an eye on them.

Hmm... I don't really have anything else to add for now. At least it feels like we've answered as much as we can for now with the information we have.

You know what would be great? If Dark Road would update. I don't think it's as related to all this Agito stuff as much as khux is (the characters don't seem like anyone in particular to me besides Bragi kind of looking like Lean), but I'd love to hear more about Xehanort's memories. I'm also curious about Odin. He seems like someone important, but...???

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2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

You can often say a complete sentence in Japanese without ever using a pronoun. If you understand the context, it doesn't feel confusing, but khux loves to use that ambiguity to its advantage, and that's how we end up with wildly different translations. Maybe he did mean "we" even if he didn't say it. There's no real way to know until we know. lol (Unless he actually DID say "bokutachi" or something. I still haven't looked for it. I feel annoyed just thinking about slogging through tons of videos to look for it... I literally opened a new tab and then closed the new tab. asfjhdgk) I've been dying to see what the official translation does with all the recent updates, so it's probably best to keeeep waaaaiting... 😴

Ah interesting...Here's the Japanese 'Breath of Darkness' update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40gQ4dGwfbY The MoM and Luxu conversation starts at about 3:46.

'Breath of Darkness' is...two updates later(which is a looong time, like, whyyyyy😩). And it isn't known yet if there is even going to be an update this month....*mega sigh* Union χ[Cross] is the game that I get super(ahem, waaaay overboard) hyped and if there isn't an update...😑.

I have no idea what happened to the update schedule. Updates are usually released on the last Thursday of the month, but the most recent update came out on December 17th instead because the last Thursday of December was Christmas Eve. Hmm...

2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I'm also curious about Odin. He seems like someone important, but...???

Odin is an intentionally mysterious character. This is his character description on the official Union χ[Cross] Dark Road website:

Quote

Master Odin is a Keyblade Master and teacher of budding Keyblade wielders. A sage man, his wide-brimmed hat obscures his features, exposing only a single piercing eye. Not a lot is known about him. Yet.

Like, literally. 'Not a lot is known about him. Yet.' That totally hints that he is someone very important lol

Edited by Double OKP

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On 1/11/2021 at 10:46 PM, Double OKP said:

Ah interesting...Here's the Japanese 'Breath of Darkness' update

Thaaaank you for finding that for me. As expected, there's no "we." You can read it as an order he's giving to Luxu.

On 1/11/2021 at 10:46 PM, Double OKP said:

*mega sigh* Union χ[Cross] is the game that I get super(ahem, waaaay overboard) hyped and if there isn't an update...😑.

I feel you. I'm not caught up in the JP version, so I just wait for Cherrim to livetweet it when it comes out. I'm always sitting on the edge of my seat. (She's @petalscythe if you're ever interested in joining the update night anxiety party. lol) At least ever since I got into Type-0 I feel like I've more or less had a sense of what to expect, so I'm usually not too thrown off guard.

On 1/11/2021 at 10:46 PM, Double OKP said:

That totally hints that he is someone very important lol

Important within the context of Dark Road, at least. I question whether it's even possible for him to be someone from the broader story.

Originally, Nomura had this idea for Xehanort's backstory, but he wasn't going to do anything with it. The reason Dark Road was made was because of the insistence of the people who were working on khux who wanted to see it. I can't help but interpret this to mean that Dark Road is a thing that didn't NEED to exist. It's like bonus content to me? The part about Xehanort being Player (or whatever's going on there) seems like something that might also be explained in more depth with the ending of khux when we'll probably find out what happened to Ephemer at the same time, so I don't think Dark Road was even essential for that revelation.

That's why, when people were like "Maybe Baldr is DEMYX!" I was just sitting there like....... He's not. Luxord's not going to be in this game, either. I think the history of those two were decided before Dark Road happened. Demyx's character file implied that he has some connection to the MoM, and Luxord appears to be out there in Verum Rex Land being Yozora's uber driver. Something tells me they aren't going to show up in a game about Xehanort's past.

The way that they're making Odin sound EXTRA suspicious is what throws me off and makes me wonder. I went back and rewatched the scenes with him and I simply cannot tell. He just seems like a nice old man to me so far. lol Even when Eraqus and Baldr get suspicious about the dangerous Mark of Mastery exam he sent the upperclassmen on, I'm like... Is it REALLY that suspicious?? I can think of some reasons for why he did that.

The thing about him that I actually find suspicious is the way he talks about the past. It's not a devious kind of suspicious, though. His expression looked really sad/somber as he was talking about the darkness of the past. It sounded personal for him. If Brain was actually Eraqus's grandpa, then that makes the Age of Fairytales seem a lot more recent than I would've expected. Re:Mind said that the scene where the MoM met YMX took place something like ~70 years ago from present time. If you add another 70~100 years to account for Odin's age, that's still not what I'd call the ancient past. Regardless, if Brain IS Eraqus's grandpa, then I guess it's possible that Odin could've been another Dandelion. It's probably not safe to assume that he isn't Ephemer, but it seems unlikely to me. .......Could he be another one of Luxu's bodies? I can't remember if there was anything that made me rule out that idea. I doubt he's the MoM, seeing as how YMX actually meets the MoM later and it just feels like the MoM would be effing with him to an entirely unnecessary degree if he was ALSO his teacher.

tbh, tho? Odin's appearance? It does kinda have "this is a disguise" vibes. I'm not convinced that that's a real old man. lol

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15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

As expected, there's no "we." You can read it as an order he's giving to Luxu.

Interesting...Imagine if the NA update it says 'we'. Then we'll be like 🤨 lol

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Originally, Nomura had this idea for Xehanort's backstory, but he wasn't going to do anything with it. The reason Dark Road was made was because of the insistence of the people who were working on khux who wanted to see it. I can't help but interpret this to mean that Dark Road is a thing that didn't NEED to exist. It's like bonus content to me?

Yeah, I think so too. Speaking of that interview:

Quote

Interviewer: In KH UX Dark Road, you delve into the past of Xehanort. So does this mean we'll see more of him in future series?

Nomura: To be fair, Dark Road wasn't a project that took future titles into consideration. It was more of a project the KHUX team was thinking of doing that's been in the backburner for a bit. Xehanort's saga ends with KH III but you can clearly see in Melody of Memory's story that his influence does shift the atmosphere, even if just a bit. However, I don't think Xehanort will become a main antagonist/main boss in future titles.

I just find that strange. He says 'I don't think'... no Nomura, don't do it! I do not want to see old man Xehanort in present KH era EVER again!

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

That's why, when people were like "Maybe Baldr is DEMYX!" I was just sitting there like....... He's not. Luxord's not going to be in this game, either. I think the history of those two were decided before Dark Road happened.

Same lol. A lot of KH Youtubers were saying "Demyx and Luxord might be one of the upper classmen!"...is that supposed to make sense?! Dark Road is just Xehanort's backstory, I don't think it would involve any characters known in the modern KH era.

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Could he be another one of Luxu's bodies? I can't remember if there was anything that made me rule out that idea.

In the KHII Secret Reports, Luxu says he watched the No Name/Gazing Eye from afar...being Odin could contradict that.

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

tbh, tho? Odin's appearance? It does kinda have "this is a disguise" vibes. I'm not convinced that that's a real old man. lol

Yes, definitely. What if at one point he reveals that beard is fake...aahh I shouldn't have thought of that.

Edited by Double OKP

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4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Speaking of that interview:

Oh, I didn't know there was an actual interview. lol I'm pretty sure the statements I was thinking of came from something that was posted on the official Dark Road twitter account right before the game went live. This is interesting. Really reinforces the idea that this story wasn't intended to have an impact on future games.

4 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I just find that strange. He says 'I don't think'... no Nomura, don't do it! I do not want to see old man Xehanort in present KH era EVER again!

I think he's leaving every possibility open. Even if it's unlikely, when you've got a story as flexible as this one, you never know if you might need a certain character again later...

Actually, tbh, even though I was kind of getting tired of Xehanort, I do feel like the story wasn't done with him and the other versions of him. I know I'm not the only person who feels like Xemnas got shafted. He ended up being treated no differently than if he were Xehanort himself, but Xemnas felt like a totally separate person to me. He finally figured out where he went wrong and then he just... died. Not to mention, there was that whole subplot in KH3 where Ansem SoD and Xemnas were looking for Subject X. I can't imagine them showing up again now. They're gone. But it feels WEIRD for that subplot to get resolved without the two who started it. (What WERE they going to do if they found her?? What else was Xehanort planning???) There's also Xehanort's interest in the box. Him gathering Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene. When I was playing KH3 for the first time, I thought that all of these things were somehow related to what he was planning to do with the war, but it seems like it was a totally separate endeavor. He is connected to all of these things (especially if he's Player), but now he's dead, so it's like............... Okay. I guess we can speculate, but now we may never know.

I really don't expect him to show up again in a big way. It's just... weird writing. Weird choices were made. Haha it's almost like Xehanort wasn't originally meant to be connected to all this stuff about the past but now he is so Nomura tried to tie it all together at the end and it got really cramped and awkward.

5 hours ago, Double OKP said:

In the KHII Secret Reports, Luxu says he watched the No Name/Gazing Eye from afar...being Odin could contradict that.

Right. Yeah, I think that's actually the thing someone else mentioned to me when I suggested that once. That is a good point.

5 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Yes, definitely. What if at one point he reveals that beard is fake...aahh I shouldn't have thought of that.

That's would be so funny. gjhfgjhk If it's a disguise, it has to be to hide the fact that he's someone we would recognize. I'm kinda starting to believe that he's just some new old man. lol

By the way, have you seen this video? I just saw this and it reminded me of some of the things we were talking about before. Apparently while Noctis was inside the Crystal, he was dreaming of other possible realities. I don't think that this novel is something that was taken into consideration for KH, but this idea certainly makes me think. The Yozora fight has two endings, so maybe the other ending is something Sora saw in a dream while he was crystalized...? Well, maybe not exactly like that, but something like that...

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15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Not to mention, there was that whole subplot in KH3 where Ansem SoD and Xemnas were looking for Subject X. I can't imagine them showing up again now. They're gone. But it feels WEIRD for that subplot to get resolved without the two who started it. (What WERE they going to do if they found her?? What else was Xehanort planning???)

I have always found that mysterious. Ansem SOD said [to Ansem the Wise] that Subject X's memories hold the answers (of the Keyblade War) that they seek. I wonder why they were seeking those answers. In the beginning of KHIII, Xehanort shows some interest in the Keyblade War, wondering, "I wonder what they were going to do with Kingdom Hearts after...making it appear." Also, in the new KHIII novel(it didn't come out yet; it's coming out this Tuesday but I found a preview on Google Books) this is the Boy in Black(Xehanort)'s character description:

Spoiler
Quote

A young man playing a game with his black-haired friend in Scala Ad Caelum. Apparently has a great interest in the Keyblade War, the Lost Masters, and tales of ancient times.

 

Also, in the KHIII Secret Reports(Secret Report 4):

Quote

Subject's memories have not returned, and our conversations remain less than lucid. What fragments can be gleaned evoke a bygone world, like one out of fairy tales. As improbable as it seems, the question may not be where she has come from, but when. If she truly has crossed through time, the prospect of probing her heart is all the more compelling.

I think Xehanort is doing these things simply out of curiosity. And also in Dark Road, he wants to meet his 'friends' from his dreams, so that could be another reason.

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

There's also Xehanort's interest in the box.

Wait...did he ever know about the box? I don't recall Xehanort ever searching for it.

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

By the way, have you seen this video? I just saw this and it reminded me of some of the things we were talking about before. Apparently while Noctis was inside the Crystal, he was dreaming of other possible realities. I don't think that this novel is something that was taken into consideration for KH, but this idea certainly makes me think. The Yozora fight has two endings, so maybe the other ending is something Sora saw in a dream while he was crystalized...? Well, maybe not exactly like that, but something like that...

Interesting...The Yozora endings are just very confusing. They both end in Yozora waking up from this seemingly dream and Sora and Yozora wondering if what they are seeing is real. Now I'm wondering if Sora also wakes up somewhere. In the KHIII secret ending, he wakes up in Quadratum. If this actually happens/happened, would it be possible that he wakes up from his side of the dream there...? But it seriously depends on which ending is real... reality and unreality *sigh*  Just makes everything the more confusing.

Edit: Xehanort also says this in his character file:

Quote

Everything I have done is for the sake of the χ-blade. And, for the sake of seeing with my own eyes what lies beyond the Keyblade War.

Hmm...

Edited by Double OKP

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10 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Wait...did he ever know about the box? I don't recall Xehanort ever searching for it.

Hm... Now that you mention it, I'm not sure. Larxene was talking about the box in front of everyone, but that was a few seconds before Xemnas showed up. Still, I feel like he would've known...? But maybe he didn't. It's just kinda weird if the whole Organization was hunting for the box and none of the Xehanorts knew about that. Either way, at this point I'm not sure it makes a difference whether he knew or not. lol

This reminds me of something. It's safe to assume that Xigbar didn't want Pete and Maleficent to be the ones who found the box, right? I mean, Xigbar was watching them from a distance and he muttered "May your heart be your guiding key" almost ironically. I dunno. That's the impression I got. In any case, Pete mentioned a "dingbat in black" (simply "the guy in black" in Japanese) who told them about the box. .......Am I just needlessly confused? Did I get the wrong impression? Was Pete talking about Xigbar or was there someone else who told them about the box?

Maybe this is like how people had a hard time figuring out that Vexen was talking about Saix when he was talking about who came up with the plan to betray the Organization... I understood, but there are definitely some things that they could've clarified better.

Wait, there's actually ANOTHER line that confuses me in the same sort of way. When Vexen is talking to Demyx and he says "Men like us", is he referring to himself and Demyx or himself and... idk, Ansem the Wise?? Demyx responds to him as if he thought Vexen was including him with that statement ("I'm not a scientist.") so I've always been confused. Like, it even made me wonder if Vexen knew something about Demyx that nobody else knew. Like, why would he consider DEMYX a fellow scientist...? I'm definitely not the only person who interpreted it that way, but I also feel like that's not correct?? It's the exact same in Japanese, so that doesn't even help. lol It's probably more likely that Vexen was trying to convince Demyx to help them, but he tried to convince him with a reason that was very personal for him but totally irrelevant to Demyx. I just can't believe that he thought that would work...

idk, the more I think about it, though, the stranger that particular conversation becomes. There's this part...

Demyx: I mean, what's in it for me?
Vexen: Forgiveness.
Demyx: Huh? For what?

Why is half the conversation spend on that topic? Is it really only relevant to Vexen? If so, why is Demyx involved? Why does Demyx shut up and take him so seriously and then immediately try to leave? W-why does he think he has nothing to atone for? I know Demyx didn't do much, but he was still part of Xehanort's black coat cult. ...And how the heck did he get "sweet-talked" into rejoining the Organization????? Being benched (ie, having an easy job) apparently wouldn't have even been a selling factor for him because he didn't even like being benched - that's why he chooses to help Vexen instead. Man, I have a lot of questions.

That's definitely the scene I've read into the most. At this point, I'd be happy to ignore it because I have no idea if I'm reading into it too hard. All I know is that it feels weird, like it's trying to say something without outright saying it. It feels like the kind of scene that's going to have a new meaning after we learn more. There are a lot of scenes that sound different in hindsight but probably weren't done intentionally (like a lot of Xigbar's earlier scenes), but this seems like an intentional attempt at that sort of thing to me.

10 hours ago, Double OKP said:

And, for the sake of seeing with my own eyes what lies beyond the Keyblade War.

No, old man. Your time is over!! Go back to Heaven with Eraqus!!

I'm curious what greater purpose the X-blade is meant to serve. I've thought about it a lot and I don't think I ever felt like I figured out anything new about it. lol All I know is that the MoM was also apparently studying it. On that note...

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There's this one part from the Days manga where Demyx asked to see Roxas and Xion's keyblades. Xion couldn't use hers at the time, so Roxas whipped his out instead. Just look at the PURE DELIGHT on Demyx's face.

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Xion was so excited to show it to him when she was able to use it again... But Demyx was Not Impressed. (Hello, Xigbar.)

It's too bad the manga isn't canon. (At least, I don't think we're supposed to consider it canon... There are a lot of differences...) I just love this one little piece of characterization so much. I hope it stays in. I think it would be kinda charming if the MoM is just a really big keyblade enthusiast who would rather fawningly study a keyblade than use one. Jack's only interests seemed to include music, napping, collecting naughty books, and studying the blade, so it seems fitting to me.

Edited by setsugekka

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12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Hm... Now that you mention it, I'm not sure. Larxene was talking about the box in front of everyone, but that was a few seconds before Xemnas showed up. Still, I feel like he would've known...? But maybe he didn't. It's just kinda weird if the whole Organization was hunting for the box and none of the Xehanorts knew about that.

In Re:Mind, Saïx mentions that Luxord went in search of 'something' per Xigbar's order, right in front of Xehanort actually. And then Xigbar said it would benefit them in the long run but wasn't of importance right at that moment(very noticeable excuse to push it to the side lol). I think they knew about it but didn't bother to question it because of Xigbar's supposed 'undying loyalty' which completely deceived the old man and his incarnates and gave them no reason to see him as suspicious. They really shouldn't have overlooked it though. Like, shouldn't they have at least wondered how and why it would help them? If they had asked, then Xigbar would have been doomed, like when Luxord questioned him. He was so visibly stuck lol.

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

In any case, Pete mentioned a "dingbat in black" (simply "the guy in black" in Japanese) who told them about the box. .......Am I just needlessly confused? Did I get the wrong impression? Was Pete talking about Xigbar or was there someone else who told them about the box?

At first I assumed it was a Darkness but now when I watch the scene...I'm not sure.

Quote

Pete: Are you sure this box with the Book of Prophecies is for reals? I think that dingbat in black was pulling your leg.

Maleficent: Be quiet and dig, you imbecile. I must find that Book of Prophecies and make it my own. His was the only clue we have. We cannot afford to dismiss it without a thorough investigation.

In the Union χ[Cross] updates, the Darkness is referred to as 'it', so that can't be who Maleficent is referring to here. And also, Xigbar/Luxu doesn't have a Book of Prophecies as the MoM didn't give him one...so it can't be him either. Who is it???

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

...And how the heck did he get "sweet-talked" into rejoining the Organization????? Being benched (ie, having an easy job) apparently wouldn't have even been a selling factor for him because he didn't even like being benched - that's why he chooses to help Vexen instead.

Now that you mention it, I just got really confused with that. Maybe whoever re-recruited him told him that he wouldn't have to do any fighting...but that still doesn't make sense because what would be in it for him?

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

All I know is that the MoM was also apparently studying it.

Wait, he was? I guess that would be possible since it hadn't been shattered into pieces yet. The MoM was the one who forged the Keyblades, meaning he had access to the χ-blade. But how did he have access to that...? Me confused.

I've been wondering if the χ-blade is wielded by anyone because the artificial Keyblades are wielded by people. The χ-blade doesn't have its own conscience...right? And it certainly can be wielded, as seen by Vanitas, Master Xehanort, and Sora. Speaking of Sora, is he still in possession of the χ-blade or did it go back to its place after the third Keyblade War concluded?

12 hours ago, setsugekka said:

It's too bad the manga isn't canon. (At least, I don't think we're supposed to consider it canon... There are a lot of differences...) I just love this one little piece of characterization so much. I hope it stays in. I think it would be kinda charming if the MoM is just a really big keyblade enthusiast who would rather fawningly study a keyblade than use one. Jack's only interests seemed to include music, napping, collecting naughty books, and studying the blade, so it seems fitting to me.

The base story of the manga is the same, but there are extra details(which I think are non-canon as the majority of them contradict the games) mostly for comical purposes, in my opinion.

That actually would make sense and be fitting. So far, the only time the MoM is mentioned fighting(we've never actually seen him fight) is when the first Keyblade War occurred and also the MoM says the darkness is a tough opponent in conversation and battle, seeming to speak from personal experience. The rest of the time he's just...well...himself I guess? lol

Edited by Double OKP

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8 hours ago, Double OKP said:

If they had asked, then Xigbar would have been doomed, like when Luxord questioned him. He was so visibly stuck lol.

Luxord is actually the MOST mysterious character to me. Like, why was he the one who was the most suspicious of Xigbar? Even Xigbar was like "Who tf is this guy???" I'm not sure if Luxord was especially loyal to Xehanort or if he just really wanted to know about the box for himself. He seemed more interested in it than anyone. His character file gave me an amusing impression, though. It didn't say much, but it made it seem like he realized that Xigbar was somebody he didn't wanna eff around with.

But yeah. I think you must be right about Xehanort not knowing. Even though he was also following the MoM's orders, it was only to a degree. It seems like the box was probably something he wasn't allowed to know about.

9 hours ago, Double OKP said:

In the Union χ[Cross] updates, the Darkness is referred to as 'it', so that can't be who Maleficent is referring to here. And also, Xigbar/Luxu doesn't have a Book of Prophecies as the MoM didn't give him one...so it can't be him either. Who is it???

Darkness refers to himself (themselves?) as "we." I don't think I've seen any of the other characters use a pronoun for him yet... I think they've just been calling him "the darkness", so "it" would be appropriate there, but I think that Maleficent would think of him as a "he." Still, Pete said "the guy in the black coat" (I was close before. lol It was even more specific than I remembered.) so that means that it was someone wearing one of the coats. I guess it could've been Vanitas, but that feels strange... I didn't get the impression that Vanitas had memories of the past until later. It's not like that totally rules him out, though.

I think that whoever told her about it was probably lying about what was inside. (Well, we basically KNOW that they were lying, seeing as how the contents of the box are supposed to be a secret.) Somebody could've told her that it contained the book to make her more eager to find it. Xigbar told Luxord that it contained "ancient secrets" or whatever, so he isn't above lying about it to generate interest.

...But who would've known that she was interested in the book specifically? I feel like Xigbar wouldn't have wanted to even mention the book to anyone because knowing about something like that would've make him look suspicious. I guess that if Xehanort never found out about him telling Maleficent about it, it wouldn't have been a problem, but would he have taken that risk...? Well... The scene with him and Luxord did make Xigbar look a little clumsy, so MAYBE.

Coulda been the MoM. Coulda been Demyx in a dissociative MoM state. LOL

9 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Wait, he was? I guess that would be possible since it hadn't been shattered into pieces yet. The MoM was the one who forged the Keyblades, meaning he had access to the χ-blade. But how did he have access to that...? Me confused.

ok, I found it. It was from the wiki. Regarding his ability to forge keyblades, they cited an interview with Nomura:

Tetsuya Nomura: "The Master knows about its existence. Using the χ-blade as a model, he creates his own Keyblades. Well, by create I don't mean that in the physical sense, such as forging and tempering them, I mean more along the lines of pulling one out from the depths of a heart."

I just wrote a lot, but I deleted it because it was a whole lot of confusion. This is a confusing detail. Very "chicken or the egg." Basically, I don't understand how the first keyblade war could've been fought with keyblades at all. Technically, all keyblades were based on the appearance of the X-blade because it was the most ancient keyblade, but doesn't it only appear when there's a keyblade war? So...???? Maybe I'm just not supposed to think about it...

10 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Speaking of Sora, is he still in possession of the χ-blade or did it go back to its place after the third Keyblade War concluded?

That's a good question. It's still in one piece, that's for certain. I lean toward thinking that it went back to where it came from after Sora used it. It exists in tandem with Kingdom Hearts or whatever, so it doesn't seem like something a person could or should just run off with. But idk, I could be wrong. It's not like we saw it disappear, right? If he still has it, why didn't he use it against Yozora? That's what I wanna know. lol

10 hours ago, Double OKP said:

That actually would make sense and be fitting. So far, the only time the MoM is mentioned fighting(we've never actually seen him fight) is when the first Keyblade War occurred and also the MoM says the darkness is a tough opponent in conversation and battle, seeming to speak from personal experience. The rest of the time he's just...well...himself I guess? lol

It sure would be something if he happens to be good at fighting but never wanted to fight and just got forced into endlessly fighting Darkness until their "truce"... It's really easy to see it that way...

ERzvqE5XsAMyvuM.thumb.jpg.33dacbe324a348a67b40dcacbc7231e6.jpg

ERzvqZeWAAAMhVN.thumb.jpg.ae8c8fe978c9dd590154294fa54f245b.jpg

I think about this part all the time and I wonder how this didn't register as extreme Demyx energy to everyone, especially with Luxu over there facepalming.

Wait, haven't I heard that exact--

Quote

No. IX - Demyx
Prefers to kick back with his sitar,
and leave the dirty work to the
water under his command.

Demyx: Yeah? Well, no biggie! I'll just find a comfy spot and kick back for 
a while.

Demyx: Hey, did you hear about Xion? Word is, she fought one tough 
customer. Ugh, the thought of bumping into a guy like that... See why 
recon's important? Not that you'll catch me enjoying it. Hey, how about 
you show me how it's done? Go scout out Mission 45 and find all the 
hidden Heartless. Examine any spot that looks fishy. Track them all down--
I'll make it up to you! (And get to kick back in the meantime.)

Maybe whoever did the localizing for Days was REALLY into that phrase. lol

I don't think I've mentioned this yet, but this just reminded me. That? 👆 Probably just coincidental wording in English. But there is a line that sounds exactly like Demyx.

Demyx: 人聞きの悪いこと言うなよ。 ("Now that's just plain rude." Literally, "Don't say rude things about me.")
MoM: 逃げるって人聞き悪いなぁ。 ("It's just plain rude to call it 'running away'.")

"Hitogiki no warui" just isn't a phrase I hear every day. My brain registers it as a Demyx line. Especially since the MoM was talking about running away... I'm just like......... Are they baiting me?? Are things allowed to be this obvious?? Hmm??? lol

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15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I guess it could've been Vanitas, but that feels strange... I didn't get the impression that Vanitas had memories of the past until later. It's not like that totally rules him out, though.

From the KHIII novels, Vanitas says this:

Quote

Part of me is asleep inside of him. I know that now.

...This darkness used to be a part of Ventus before we split apart. I was born from it when he became us. 

...If I connect with Sora, with Ventus, then I can become my true self. What kind of person will I even be? I can't begin to imagine it. 

There's a tiny sliver of a memory inside me  - a memory from long, long ago, from a distant past. But...why? I disappeared back in the Keyblade Graveyard, and somehow, I already knew that place. Who did that memory belong to? Me? Ventus? Or someone else? I have no idea. One thing I do know - I have to be whole again. Who am I, really? I am half of Ventus. I am -

(These are parts of Vanitas's dialogue in Monstropolis)

So, we still don't really know what or who Vanitas is. Here, Vanitas says part of him sleeps in Ven(what's that supposed to mean?). If he really was one of the beings of darkness, he wouldn't be saying, "What kind of person will I even be?" Darkness knows very well that they aren't people. Also, Vanitas has a memory from the distant past...but just one. From this, I get the impression that Vanitas is part Darkness and part Ventus(how that's supposed to work I have no idea). Vanitas clearly has some connection to Darkness. But in this dialogue, Vanitas doesn't seem to know who he really is and doesn't have memories of the ancient past except that one memory he mentions above. So I find it highly unlikely that he knows anything about the Book of Prophecies and the black box.

There's this strange thing about the Unversed emblem. It's on the zipper of the black coats, and the main purpose of the coats are to ward off darkness...I also heard that the Unversed emblem is in the Scala alphabet. And on the Gigas mechs, the cover of the cockpit, is a symbol very similar to the Unversed emblem...This can't be a coincidence.

I'm so confused. The one who told Maleficent that a Book is in the box is clearly using her for his own purposes. He is deceiving her into finding it, opening it, and then something bad is going to happen. It couldn't have been Xigbar/Luxu, because he was strictly ordered to never ever open it, it doesn't seem to be Vanitas...is it the MoM? But he was the one who ordered Luxu to never open it. Whaatttt...*exploding brain*

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

ok, I found it. It was from the wiki. Regarding his ability to forge keyblades, they cited an interview with Nomura:

Tetsuya Nomura: "The Master knows about its existence. Using the χ-blade as a model, he creates his own Keyblades. Well, by create I don't mean that in the physical sense, such as forging and tempering them, I mean more along the lines of pulling one out from the depths of a heart."

I just wrote a lot, but I deleted it because it was a whole lot of confusion. This is a confusing detail. Very "chicken or the egg." Basically, I don't understand how the first keyblade war could've been fought with keyblades at all. Technically, all keyblades were based on the appearance of the X-blade because it was the most ancient keyblade, but doesn't it only appear when there's a keyblade war? So...???? Maybe I'm just not supposed to think about it...

Oh I see. ...I never even thought about that. Well, after the second Keyblade War, the χ-blade scattered into 20 pieces. It broke. And following that War, it could only appear when someone 'recreated' it by having light and darkness clash. But before the second Keyblade War, it was complete so it would be somwhere and the people at the time would be able to see it. 

There's the Realm of Light and the Realm of Darkness, right? In the RoD, light can be found nowhere. But in the RoL, every person can have darkness. If there's darkness in the RoL, how come there's no light in the RoD? It seems like at one point in time, long before the second Keyblade War, maybe right before the first Keyblade War, all forms of light resided in the RoL and all forms of darkness resided in the RoD. People were of the RoL because like Xehanort said: "From the light came the people, and the people had hearts." Back then everyone had pure hearts void of darkness. The Realms seem to have this rule: meddling is strictly forbidden. Then, at some point in time, the darkness meddled and infiltrated the RoL, which is when the first Keyblade War would have occurred. The MoM and his allies were probably the Guardians of the Realm of Light at that time, so the MoM probably forged the Keyblades then to fight against darkness. Though I still wonder why he said that the wielders with him 'didn't really count'...

I don't know, I might be wrong with this but that's just how it seems.

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

If he still has it, why didn't he use it against Yozora?

Well, the χ-blade isn't something to be dealed with recklessly. Sora would know to only use it if really necessary, in my opinion.

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Maybe whoever did the localizing for Days was REALLY into that phrase. lol

I don't think I've mentioned this yet, but this just reminded me. That? 👆 Probably just coincidental wording in English. But there is a line that sounds exactly like Demyx.

Whoa, I never noticed that! The MoM and Demyx have so many similarities. It's hard to imagine this is all coincidental.

Edited by Double OKP

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23 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Vanitas clearly has some connection to Darkness. But in this dialogue, Vanitas doesn't seem to know who he really is and doesn't have memories of the ancient past except that one memory he mentions above. So I find it highly unlikely that he knows anything about the Book of Prophecies and the black box.

I get the impression that Darkness calls themselves "we" because they're an embodiment of ALL the Darkness. So it's possible for Vanitas to just be a part of it. I think he wants to join together with Ventus because it seems like all of the darkness (including the Darklings) have a desire for light.

...But also, I'm not sure if we're supposed to take the novels as canon, either. So I can't tell how much of that is word from Nomura and how much is artistic license. This one part makes me the most curious: "Who did that memory belong to? Me? Ventus? Or someone else?" The inclusion of "someone else" makes me wonder if he did originally come from someone else. Ya can't just SAY things like that for no reason. Assuming that the MoM is as much like Jack as he seems, the thought had crossed my mind at one point that Darkness could've been the manifestation of the negative emotions the MoM abandoned like Jack. In Dark Road, Xehanort mentions how "emptiness" is even more terrifying than darkness. That's a lil sus.

But on the other hand, maybe I should stop assuming that everything is related to the MoM. LOL I feel like that's everyone's gut reaction to every single unexplained detail and I am also guilty of it. Hopefully we'll receive some clarification on Darkness's origins and his history with the MoM sssssssoon... (That's wishful thinking, huh...)

31 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

I'm so confused. The one who told Maleficent that a Book is in the box is clearly using her for his own purposes. He is deceiving her into finding it, opening it, and then something bad is going to happen. It couldn't have been Xigbar/Luxu, because he was strictly ordered to never ever open it, it doesn't seem to be Vanitas...is it the MoM? But he was the one who ordered Luxu to never open it. Whaatttt...*exploding brain*

Hm... You're right - I can't imagine her finding it and then not immediately trying to open it. lol But I still think that whoever told her about it was just using her to find it and then they'd probably take it from her. ...But with that in mind, it wouldn't be the MoM, huh? I feel like he would've known where to find his own box - unless it was like you were guessing and he (or whoever) was hoping to lure her into a trap.

O-or maybe it was actually just Xigbar and the scene was unnecessarily unclear.

51 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

The MoM and his allies were probably the Guardians of the Realm of Light at that time, so the MoM probably forged the Keyblades then to fight against darkness. Though I still wonder why he said that the wielders with him 'didn't really count'...

I don't know, I might be wrong with this but that's just how it seems.

That's a much simpler explanation than whatever I was imagining. That's good. Let's go with that for now.

Time for another round of "That line doesn't sound the same in Japanese." The English version almost makes it sound like the others wielders from his past didn't even COUNT as keyblade wielders... I think that was just some confusing wording, though.

ん〜、いったちゃいたけど、俺以外は論外だね
"Nn~ There were others, but everyone besides me is irrelevant."

I'm curious if he meant "irrelevant to the story at hand" or if he really meant that nobody else was important so we'll never know about anyone from his past. lol

1 hour ago, Double OKP said:

Whoa, I never noticed that! The MoM and Demyx have so many similarities. It's hard to imagine this is all coincidental.

I'm hoping that it makes its way into the English version... But I don't think the localizers are given any special hints about the story, so even if they notice it, they probably won't know for sure if it's a real reference or not...

Anyhow, since we're talking about Demyx...

I watched some of Days in Japanese and retranslated some scenes. The localization of Days is AMAZING because it adds so much flavor, but... I just enjoy seeing the original so I can tell what's different.

This is from Day 224 (or thereabouts), after Roxas unexpectedly had to fight Xigbar in the Coliseum. Once Xigbar leaves, Demyx finally shows back up.

Quote

Demyx: Good job!
Roxas: Demyx, what the heck were you doing?
Demyx: What was I doin'... Uhh... Ah, I know! I was cheering for you!
Roxas: Cheering... If you used your eyes, you could see that wasn't a normal match...
Demyx: Oh, I know! The match surprised me, too~ That was Xigbar as your opponent in the deciding round!
Roxas: Y-yeah... Right.
Demyx: I wonder why Xigbar was your opponent? I'm sure that couldn't have been his mission...
Demyx: Jeez, that old guy... I never know what he's thinking...
Roxas: Do you think Xigbar wanted to fight me...?
Demyx: *recoils as if in shock* No way! That couldn't be!
Demyx: Don't overthink it!
Demyx: All that matters is that you safely completed the mission. All's well that ends well, y'know?! Right?
Roxas: R-... Right... Well... I guess that's true.
Demyx: Alright, if we're all done here, let's hurry up an' report back.

When he says "I never know what he's thinking", he actually trails off without finishing the whole sentence as if he's thinking out loud. idk, I don't think I'm even especially reading into this one. It just sounds like Demyx was personally suspicious of Xigbar, but he was keeping his thoughts to himself. Immediately after that, though, he discourages Roxas from thinking about it, like he was trying to defend Xigbar from anyone else's suspicion. He's quite over-the-top about it, too, trying to make Roxas drop it and move along as quickly as possible.

If this part doesn't end up getting forgotten, it paints an intriguing picture.

I don't even have anything to add. This one just always gets me. Suspicious.

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6 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

..But also, I'm not sure if we're supposed to take the novels as canon, either. So I can't tell how much of that is word from Nomura and how much is artistic license. This one part makes me the most curious: "Who did that memory belong to? Me? Ventus? Or someone else?" The inclusion of "someone else" makes me wonder if he did originally come from someone else. Ya can't just SAY things like that for no reason. Assuming that the MoM is as much like Jack as he seems, the thought had crossed my mind at one point that Darkness could've been the manifestation of the negative emotions the MoM abandoned like Jack. In Dark Road, Xehanort mentions how "emptiness" is even more terrifying than darkness. That's a lil sus.

The novels could be secondary canon...buuut it also could be not. Some scenes are altered a bit but not in a huge way that affects the overall story. And the part where Marluxia mentions recalling a name of a flower was confirmed in the KHIII Ultimania character files(...those are canon, right?). 

I'm not sure what the definition of emptiness is in the Kingdom Hearts universe. Xehanort says it's more terrifying than darkness, Vanitas says he came from emptiness and will return to it. Wait...I'm looking at Vanitas's character file and he says:

Quote

What is emptiness? It's neither darkness nor light - it's something in an even deeper abyss...

HUH?! Quadratum is neither of darkness nor light and Young Xehanort told Sora that if he chases a Lich, he will sink into the deep abyss that the Lich condemns hearts to...and that was when Sora misused the power of waking and seemingly got trapped in Quadratum! I'm not sure if this means anything...

17 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

But on the other hand, maybe I should stop assuming that everything is related to the MoM. LOL I feel like that's everyone's gut reaction to every single unexplained detail and I am also guilty of it. Hopefully we'll receive some clarification on Darkness's origins and his history with the MoM sssssssoon... (That's wishful thinking, huh...)

Yeah, everything seems related to the MoM xD I wonder if there will be more Luxu and MoM scenes in future UX updates. That could tell us more.

20 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

O-or maybe it was actually just Xigbar and the scene was unnecessarily unclear.

The more I think about it, the more unlikely the 'dingbat in black' seems to be him. But I think this is one of the things I should just wait for.

22 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

I'm curious if he meant "irrelevant to the story at hand" or if he really meant that nobody else was important so we'll never know about anyone from his past. lol

Ah...another confusing translation! Hmm...I think he meant irrelevant to the story at hand...meh I'm not sure. Maybe he thinks he's the only important one lol

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32 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

HUH?! Quadratum is neither of darkness nor light and Young Xehanort told Sora that if he chases a Lich, he will sink into the deep abyss that the Lich condemns hearts to...and that was when Sora misused the power of waking and seemingly got trapped in Quadratum! I'm not sure if this means anything...

I forget if I mentioned this, but the place YMX mentioned in that scene has a name in Japanese, "yami no shin'en", "the abyss of the darkness." Mickey mentions the same place in one of the conversations in Yen Sid's tower. I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I thiiink it's the name of the shore in the realm of darkness, the place where Aqua got thrown into the water and turned into Dark Aqua. I know it's not the name of the realm of darkness itself. That's literally "the world of darkness."

I have no idea if this is right, but Darkness and the MoM give me big "abyss and chaos" symbolism vibes. I mean, we know that Vanitas is associated with the abyss, aka "void." The two things are connected.

I gotta sleep, so I'm gonna hand you the whole Wikipedia article about it. Fascinating stuff. It would be pretty sick if Demyx's water power is actually CHAOS.

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11 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I forget if I mentioned this, but the place YMX mentioned in that scene has a name in Japanese, "yami no shin'en", "the abyss of the darkness." Mickey mentions the same place in one of the conversations in Yen Sid's tower. I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I thiiink it's the name of the shore in the realm of darkness, the place where Aqua got thrown into the water and turned into Dark Aqua. I know it's not the name of the realm of darkness itself. That's literally "the world of darkness."

Ah I see. Yeah, those waters that Aqua fell into is the abyss. 

But that line that Vanitas says. "What is emptiness? It's neither darkness nor light." In KHMoM, Apprentice Xehanort says, "However, if you arrive in a world that's neither of light nor darkness..."  And in Dark Road, Xehanort talks about emptiness...this puzzles me.

11 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I gotta sleep, so I'm gonna hand you the whole Wikipedia article about it. Fascinating stuff. It would be pretty sick if Demyx's water power is actually CHAOS.

I always knew chaos as a state of extreme confusion and disorder, which is one of its definitions, but I had no idea about this stuff! 

Imagine if Demyx actually has OP powers lol. He said he can be extremely imposing and I bet he was speaking the truth.

 

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