TV The Legend of Korra

[hatok 6,413]

Here's the difference between Sora and Kairi and Korra and Mako

Kairi didn't cheat on Sora, they never had a fight, and they never had a moment where they decided that being in a relationship wouldn't work out

Mako x Korra was dead by the time season 3 hit

 

and to people saying "the show doesn't need romance"

you're right

and that's why it wasn't the focus

it was just an ending

because endings are about establishing character relationships before ending the series for good

[Aang 649]

I don't agree with same-sex relationships. But I don't hate people who are, or who do support it. I wont hide what I believe. But all beliefs aside, I feel like the ending is all up for interpretation. I see them as friends, not lovers. I do believe it was shoe horned in to make TV history and to appease the shippers. I personally believe Korra should remain an independent woman. Not with Asami, Bolin, or Mako. I thought the show was based upon friendship, not romance. With Aang and Katara, it was obvious they liked each other, and it nicely was built on three seasons. With Asami and Korra it felt completely different. If this is a romantic relationship, I feel it was badly done.

[Deadshot 666]

"Our intention with the last scene was to make it as clear as possible that yes, Korra and Asami have romantic feelings for each other. "

[PrinceNoctis 1,011]

Here's the difference between Sora and Kairi and Korra and Mako

Kairi didn't cheat on Sora, they never had a fight, and they never had a moment where they decided that being in a relationship wouldn't work out

Mako x Korra was dead by the time season 3 hit

 

and to people saying "the show doesn't need romance"

you're right

and that's why it wasn't the focus

it was just an ending

because endings are about establishing character relationships before ending the series for good

I agree but the thing with that ending is that it overshadowed the whole plot. It's the only thing people are talking about. The reviews don't even talk about Korra being a total badass when fighting Kuvira and all...it's all about Korrasami now and I think that's probably the thing people will remember most about the series which is kind of sad because it was so much more than that. IMO, it should've ended with the past avatars coming back. Imagine if they would've intervened to help Korra stop the laser beam from killing Kuvira It would've been amazing...Anyway, the show's over so, whatever I say, it's pointless.

[Firaga 5,947]

Wait, wait a minute. This is treading into a whole different conversation. 

 

Why is it wrong for it be on a children's cartoon? And please don't say because it would change their views and that they'd end up gay or something. Because that would seriously imply that you believe being homosexual is a choice. Which it isn't. 

 

And if you think it is.. then I'm sorry but I can't take what you're saying seriously anymore. There is a difference between opinions and flat out disliking someone's choice of life because of disgust.

 

PS: Aang and Katara kissed at the end of ATLA, why was that appropriate for a children's cartoon?

 

It's wrong because I don't think it belongs there because I don't agree with it in the slightest. Kids don't need to be exposed to that type of thing because frankly, they're too young to even be exposed to normal sexual lifestyles.

 

Even so, that's actually not my main problem with it. What I think doesn't affect the status quo obviously, but here's my main problem: before the creators outright said that KorrAsami was canon, I was completely fine with it. I thought it was a bold move and a nice way to stick it to Nick after their falling out with them, because the way they did it made it okay for somebody like me, somebody who is uncomfortable with those types of lifestyles, to interpret the ending which ever way I want. They didn't show Korra and Asami kissing or anything, so the viewers could decide whether or not they were romantically involved with one another or not based on their own thinking. So that's why when the news broke out yesterday that the creators themselves said that KorrAsami was canon, it ruined it, and it ruined it for people like me who wanted to believe that they were just friends. I mean, aren't I allowed to have my own opinion about this? If I so choose to believe that Korra and Asami stayed platonic, why should that have to be taken away just because the other side of the spectrum made too much noise and wanted to be right, because I can tell that's exactly why the creators decided to even say that. And look, I know what they were doing: they're trying to embrace a new mindset and do something new to break down some barriers. That's fine. But when instead of doing it subtly, they do in the opposite direction and throw it out in the air, it ruins it. Not to mention that from a literary perspective, it's lazy writing: the hints that these two were going to be together weren't even that strong and the face that the creators themselves suddenly decided they would be a lesbian couple is forced and thought up at the last minute just to please some deluded shippers. That is my beef with this entire scenario. Alright?

 

PS: No, because its heterosexual and it doesn't involve anything abnormal.

 

Also, being homosexual is a choice, but that's another debate entirely.

 

"Our intention with the last scene was to make it as clear as possible that yes, Korra and Asami have romantic feelings for each other. "

 

There's no need for that.

[Firaga 5,947]

I've expressed my opinions quite enough on this topic. To summarize: I preferred this better when it was left to interpretation.

[hatok 6,413]

I agree but the thing with that ending is that it overshadowed the whole plot. It's the only thing people are talking about. The reviews don't even talk about Korra being a total badass when fighting Kuvira and all...it's all about Korrasami now and I think that's probably the thing people will remember most about the series which is kind of sad because it was so much more than that. IMO, it should've ended with the past avatars coming back. Imagine if they would've intervened to help Korra stop the laser beam from killing Kuvira It would've been amazing...Anyway, the show's over so, whatever I say, it's pointless.

that's the reviewer's, not the show's problem

[Sorarocks93 678]

It's wrong because I don't think it belongs there because I don't agree with it in the slightest. Kids don't need to be exposed to that type of thing because frankly, they're too young to even be exposed to normal sexual lifestyles.

 

Even so, that's actually not my main problem with it. What I think doesn't affect the status quo obviously, but here's my main problem: before the creators outright said that KorrAsami was canon, I was completely fine with it. I thought it was a bold move and a nice way to stick it to Nick after their falling out with them, because the way they did it made it okay for somebody like me, somebody who is uncomfortable with those types of lifestyles, to interpret the ending which ever way I want. They didn't show Korra and Asami kissing or anything, so the viewers could decide whether or not they were romantically involved with one another or not based on their own thinking. So that's why when the news broke out yesterday that the creators themselves said that KorrAsami was canon, it ruined it, and it ruined it for people like me who wanted to believe that they were just friends. I mean, aren't I allowed to have my own opinion about this? If I so choose to believe that Korra and Asami stayed platonic, why should that have to be taken away just because the other side of the spectrum made too much noise and wanted to be right, because I can tell that's exactly why the creators decided to even say that. And look, I know what they were doing: they're trying to embrace a new mindset and do something new to break down some barriers. That's fine. But when instead of doing it subtly, they do in the opposite direction and throw it out in the air, it ruins it. Not to mention that from a literary perspective, it's lazy writing: the hints that these two were going to be together weren't even that strong and the face that the creators themselves suddenly decided they would be a lesbian couple is forced and thought up at the last minute just to please some deluded shippers. That is my beef with this entire scenario. Alright?

 

PS: No, because its heterosexual and it doesn't involve anything abnormal.

 

Also, being homosexual is a choice, but that's another debate entirely.

 

 

There's no need for that.

It's funny cause, those lines I've bolded make your entire wall of text in the middle totally pointless.

 

Congratulations. 

[Shana09 5,769]

Can we not start attacking each other during this debate? Any posts out right being rude will be removed.

 

 

Anyways Korra and Asami are bi and there is nothing wrong with it. They had straight pairings, they can be lesbian pairings too. Now whether or not I agree that should've been the final scene is another story, but there isn't anything wrong with the romantic relationship between Korra and Asami.

[Firaga 5,947]

It's funny cause, those lines I've bolded make your entire wall of text in the middle totally pointless.

 

Congratulations. 

 

No it does not. My argument and those opinions are separate for a reason.

 

Look, I apologize for putting those there. My argument in the middle is what I truly think of this entire scenario, and while it does have to do with my own opinions, that's not just the basic premise of it either, and its based on other things rather than just my moral prerogative. I advise you to understand where I'm coming from so that we can reach some kind of impasse.

 

Can we not start attacking each other during this debate? Any posts out right being rude will be removed.

 

 

Anyways Korra and Asami are bi and there is nothing wrong with it. They had straight pairings, they can be lesbian pairings too. Now whether or not I agree that should've been the final scene is another story, but there isn't anything wrong with the romantic relationship between Korra and Asami.

 

I respectfully disagree, however, I won't cause any more trouble.

[Shana09 5,769]

No it does not. My argument and those opinions are separate for a reason.

 

Look, I apologize for putting those there. My argument in the middle is what I truly think of this entire scenario, and while it does have to do with my own opinions, that's not just the basic premise of it either, and its based on other things rather than just my moral prerogative. I advise you to understand where I'm coming from so that we can reach some kind of impasse.

 

 

I respectfully disagree, however, I won't cause any more trouble.

 

You can't really disagree with what's canon.

Korrasami is canon. 

 

You can celebrate it, embrace it, accept it, get over it, or whatever you feel the need to do, but there is no denying it. That is the official story. We received some wonderful press in the wake of the series finale at the end of last week, and just about every piece I read got it right: Korra and Asami fell in love. Were they friends? Yes, and they still are, but they also grew to have romantic feelings for each other. 

 

Was Korrasami “endgame,” meaning, did we plan it from the start of the series? No, but nothing other than Korra’s spiritual arc was. Asami was a duplicitous spy when Mike and I first conceived her character. Then we liked her too much so we reworked the story to keep her in the dark regarding her father’s villainous activities. Varrick and Zhu Li weren’t originally planned to end up as a couple either, but that’s where we took the story/where the story took us. That’s how writing works the vast majority of the time. You give these characters life and then they tell you what they want to do. 

 

I have bragging rights as the first Korrasami shipper (I win!). As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers’ room. At first we didn’t give it much weight, not because we think same-sex relationships are a joke, but because we never assumed it was something we would ever get away with depicting on an animated show for a kids network in this day and age, or at least in 2010. 

 

Makorra was only “endgame” as far as the end of Book 1. Once we got into Book 2 we knew we were going to have them break up, and we never planned on getting them back together. Sorry, friends. I like Mako too, and I am sure he will be just fine in the romance department. He grew up and learned about himself through his relationships with Asami and Korra, and he’s a better person for it, and he’ll be a better partner for whomever he ends up with. 

 

Once Mako and Korra were through, we focused on developing Korra and Asami’s relationship. Originally, it was primarily intended to be a strong friendship. Frankly, we wanted to set most of the romance business aside for the last two seasons. Personally, at that point I didn’t want Korra to have to end up with someone at the end of series. We obviously did it inAvatar, but even that felt a bit forced to me. I’m usually rolling my eyes when that happens in virtually every action film, “Here we go again…” It was probably around that time that I came across this quote from Hayao Miyazaki: 

 

“I’ve become skeptical of the unwritten rule that just because a boy and girl appear in the same feature, a romance must ensue. Rather, I want to portray a slightly different relationship, one where the two mutually inspire each other to live - if I’m able to, then perhaps I’ll be closer to portraying a true expression of love.” 

 

I agree with him wholeheartedly, especially since the majority of the examples in media portray a female character that is little more than a trophy to be won by the male lead for his derring-do. So Mako and Korra break the typical pattern and end up respecting, admiring, and inspiring each other. That is a resolution I am proud of. 

 

However, I think there needs to be a counterpart to Miyazaki’s sentiment: Just because two characters of the same sex appear in the same story, it should not preclude the possibility of a romance between them. No, not everyone is queer, but the other side of that coin is that not everyone is straight. The more Korra and Asami’s relationship progressed, the more the idea of a romance between them organically blossomed for us. However, we still operated under this notion, another “unwritten rule,” that we would not be allowed to depict that in our show. So we alluded to it throughout the second half of the series, working in the idea that their trajectory could be heading towards a romance. 

 

But as we got close to finishing the finale, the thought struck me: How do I know we can’t openly depict that? No one ever explicitly said so. It was just another assumption based on a paradigm that marginalizes non-heterosexual people. If we want to see that paradigm evolve, we need to take a stand against it. And I didn’t want to look back in 20 years and think, “Man, we could have fought harder for that.” Mike and I talked it over and decided it was important to be unambiguous about the intended relationship. 

 

We approached the network and while they were supportive there was a limit to how far we could go with it, as just about every article I read accurately deduced. It was originally written in the script over a year ago that Korra and Asami held hands as they walked into the spirit portal. We went back and forth on it in the storyboards, but later in the retake process I staged a revision where they turned towards each other, clasping both hands in a reverential manner, in a direct reference to Varrick and Zhu Li’s nuptial pose from a few minutes prior. We asked Jeremy Zuckerman to make the music tender and romantic, and he fulfilled the assignment with a sublime score. I think the entire last two-minute sequence with Korra and Asami turned out beautiful, and again, it is a resolution of which I am very proud. I love how their relationship arc took its time, through kindness and caring. If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens. 

 

Was it a slam-dunk victory for queer representation? I think it falls short of that, but hopefully it is a somewhat significant inching forward. It has been encouraging how well the media and the bulk of the fans have embraced it. Sadly and unsurprisingly, there are also plenty of people who have lashed out with homophobic vitriol and nonsense. It has been my experience that by and large this kind of mindset is a result of a lack of exposure to people whose lives and struggles are different from one’s own, and due to a deficiency in empathy––the latter being a key theme in Book 4. (Despite what you might have heard, bisexual people are real!) I have held plenty of stupid notions throughout my life that were planted there in any number of ways, or even grown out of my own ignorance and flawed personality. Yet through getting to know people from all walks of life, listening to the stories of their experiences, and employing some empathy to try to imagine what it might be like to walk in their shoes, I have been able to shed many hurtful mindsets. I still have a long way to go, and I still have a lot to learn. It is a humbling process and hard work, but nothing on the scale of what anyone who has been marginalized has experienced. It is a worthwhile, lifelong endeavor to try to understand where people are coming from. 

 

There is the inevitable reaction, “Mike and Bryan just caved in to the fans.” Well, which fans? There were plenty of Makorra shippers out there, so if we had gone back on our decision and gotten those characters back together, would that have meant we caved in to those fans instead? Either direction we went, there would inevitably be a faction that was elated and another that was devastated. Trust me, I remember Kataang vs. Zutara. But one of those directions is going to be the one that feels right to us, and Mike and I have always made both Avatar and Korra for us, first and foremost. We are lucky that so many other people around the world connect with these series as well. Tahno playing trombone––now that was us caving in to the fans! 

 

But this particular decision wasn’t only done for us. We did it for all our queer friends, family, and colleagues. It is long over due that our media (including children’s media) stops treating non-heterosexual people as nonexistent, or as something merely to be mocked. I’m only sorry it took us so long to have this kind of representation in one of our stories. 

 

I’ll wrap this up with some incredible words that Mike and I received in a message from a former Korra crew member. He is a deeply religious person who devotes much of his time and energy not only to his faith, but also to helping young people. He and I may have starkly different belief systems, but it is heartwarming and encouraging that on this issue we are aligned in a positive, progressive direction: 

 

“I’ve read enough reviews to get a sense of how it affected people. One very well-written article in Vanity Fair called it subversive (in a good way, of course)… I would say a better word might be “healing.” I think your finale was healing for a lot of people who feel outside or on the fringes, or that their love and their journey is somehow less real or valuable than someone else’s… That it’s somehow less valid. I know quite a few people in that position, who have a lifetime of that on their shoulders, and in one episode of television you both relieved and validated them. That’s healing in my book.” 

 

Love, 

 

Bryan

 

 

Source: https://archive.today/mE2h6#selection-63.0-165.5

[Firaga 5,947]

You can't really disagree with what's canon.

 

Source: https://archive.today/mE2h6#selection-63.0-165.5

 

Well, I still disagree because of the reasons I've stated a million times on this thread now, including the way it was handled both in-show and out-of-show.

 

Am I not allowed to have that opinion?

[Shana09 5,769]

Well, I still disagree because of the reasons I've stated a million times on this thread now, including the way it was handled both in-show and out-of-show.

 

Am I not allowed to have that opinion?

 

The way they handled it can be better but all their romance has been shoehorned in ATLA and LOK. He even states that Aang and Katara's romance was a little forced too at the end.

[Firaga 5,947]

The way they handled it can be better but all their romance has been shoehorned in ATLA and LOK. He even states that Aang and Katara's romance was a little forced too at the end.

 

Now that, I agree with.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Firaga Sensei

[Sorarocks93 678]

Well, I still disagree because of the reasons I've stated a million times on this thread now, including the way it was handled both in-show and out-of-show.

 

Am I not allowed to have that opinion?

You're saying because it's lazy writing and then it's entire purpose is to appease the fans then you can disagree with it.

 

But how does the quality of the writing affect if you can either disagree with it or not? What would happen if the writing was oscar worthy?

[Shana09 5,769]

You're saying because it's lazy writing and then it's entire purpose is to appease the fans then you can disagree with it.

 

But how does the quality of the writing affect if you can either disagree with it or not? What would happen if the writing was oscar worthy?

 

Oh yeah.

That's true, why do you disagree with something regardless how the writing is? Its still canon, you can't disagree with that.

[Firaga 5,947]

You're saying because it's lazy writing and then it's entire purpose is to appease the fans then you can disagree with it.

 

But how does the quality of the writing affect if you can either disagree with it or not? What would happen if the writing was oscar worthy?

 

Oh yeah.

That's true, why do you disagree with something regardless how the writing is? Its still canon, you can't disagree with that.

 

Because I like good writing. I mean, if it was handled better overall, then I'd probably be more understanding towards it to be honest. My views on LGBT wouldn't change, but I'd give more credit for LoK's creators for showing a more genuine approach to it, instead of seemingly throwing it out at the last minute based on nothing but a few weak hints here and there. It doesn't feel like they reached the goal they were trying to achieve, it just feels like they half-assed it. Even so, I still give credit to them for at least getting it out there even if I personally think it was contrived, especially considering the treatment they got from Nickelodeon near the show's end.

 

Also, as far as "canon" goes, I'm still not changing my mind. Considering the show ended with the open-endedness still intact, sans the creators word, I can take it the way that I choose regardless.

[Aang 649]

This thread has gone completely whack Guys, let us all show respect for one another. I disagree with the lifestyle, but regardless I show respect. We are all allowed to freely share our opinions. Whether you disagree or agree, support or don't support homosexuality, and bisexuality is another discussion. Regardless of whether or not it is canon, we all have the right to believe what we want. Instead of talking about there sexual orientations, I propose we start talking about how it was done. 

 

I personally think that Aang and Katara's relationship was built up much better, and was way more effective than that of Korra's. Think of the long, long buildup over the course of three seasons. Now, if you look at Korra's, sure there was a blush, and they occasionally had a moment together, but everything that they've done together can be considered a friendly gesture. There "moments" are things that girls do with other girls that is completely straight in our every day lives. Aang and Katara's was more distinctive, and they have more clear moments that solidified there love.

[Firaga 5,947]

This thread has gone completely whack Guys, let us all show respect for one another. I disagree with the lifestyle, but regardless I show respect. We are all allowed to freely share our opinions. Whether you disagree or agree, support or don't support homosexuality, and bisexuality is another discussion. Regardless of whether or not it is canon, we all have the right to believe what we want. Instead of talking about there sexual orientations, I propose we start talking about how it was done. 

 

I personally think that Aang and Katara's relationship was built up much better, and was way more effective than that of Korra's. Think of the long, long buildup over the course of three seasons. Now, if you look at Korra's, sure there was a blush, and they occasionally had a moment together, but everything that they've done together can be considered a friendly gesture. There "moments" are things that girls do with other girls that is completely straight in our every day lives. Aang and Katara's was more distinctive, and they have more clear moments that solidified there love.

 

That's exactly what I meant when I said the so called "hints" weren't that strong. They didn't really do much to support what came at the end.

[Shana09 5,769]

Because I like good writing. I mean, if it was handled better overall, then I'd probably be more understanding towards it to be honest. My views on LGBT wouldn't change, but I'd give more credit for LoK's creators for showing a more genuine approach to it, instead of seemingly throwing it out at the last minute based on nothing but a few weak hints here and there. It doesn't feel like they reached the goal they were trying to achieve, it just feels like they half-assed it. Even so, I still give credit to them for at least getting it out there even if I personally think it was contrived, especially considering the treatment they got from Nickelodeon near the show's end.

 

Also, as far as "canon" goes, I'm still not changing my mind. Considering the show ended with the open-endedness still intact, sans the creators word, I can take it the way that I choose regardless.

 

Its still canon though, so its true. They can't do much on a kids network so they decided to show it that way.

 

You can't really disagree with it because of poor writing. You can say "oh I didn't like the way it was written" but disagreeing with it is like saying "I don't accept that happened" when it did happen. You should either word your sentences carefully to describe what you are trying to say or else we get another message you weren't intentionally trying to say.

 

 

This thread has gone completely whack Guys, let us all show respect for one another. I disagree with the lifestyle, but regardless I show respect. We are all allowed to freely share our opinions. Whether you disagree or agree, support or don't support homosexuality, and bisexuality is another discussion. Regardless of whether or not it is canon, we all have the right to believe what we want. Instead of talking about there sexual orientations, I propose we start talking about how it was done. 

 

I personally think that Aang and Katara's relationship was built up much better, and was way more effective than that of Korra's. Think of the long, long buildup over the course of three seasons. Now, if you look at Korra's, sure there was a blush, and they occasionally had a moment together, but everything that they've done together can be considered a friendly gesture. There "moments" are things that girls do with other girls that is completely straight in our every day lives. Aang and Katara's was more distinctive, and they have more clear moments that solidified there love.

 

The relationship between Asami and Korra were more subtle and started in Book 3 and went on and on. If you piece them together then it shows that they like each other romantically. Brian says to look at those pieces in non hetro-goggles. Look at those scenes as if its romantic, and its pretty obvious that they like each other. The letter thing was one of the major evidences. 

[Firaga 5,947]

Its still canon though, so its true. They can't do much on a kids network so they decided to show it that way.

 

You can't really disagree with it because of poor writing. You can say "oh I didn't like the way it was written" but disagreeing with it is like saying "I don't accept that happened" when it did happen. You should either word your sentences carefully to describe what you are trying to say or else we get another message you weren't intentionally trying to say.

 

Okay then fine, I didn't like the way it was written and it should have been done better. Happy?

 

And I already said that I still believe that the relationship is platonic, so sorry, but that's not going to change. I don't have to take the creators last minute information as fact when I re-watch the ending

Edited December 23, 2014 by Firaga Sensei

[Shana09 5,769]

Okay then fine, I didn't like the way it was written and it should have been done better. Happy?

 

And I already said that I still believe that the relationship is platonic, so sorry, but that's not going to change. I don't have to take the creators last minute information as fact when I re-watch the ending

 

Their "last minute information" was to confirm the ending, it was just a confirmation.

[Sorarocks93 678]

 

The relationship between Asami and Korra were more subtle and started in Book 3 and went on and on. If you piece them together then it shows that they like each other romantically. Brian says to look at those pieces in non hetro-goggles. Look at those scenes as if its romantic, and its pretty obvious that they like each other. The letter thing was one of the major evidences. 

I agree with this, simply because you don't need Disney type of relationships where the characters dance around or have moments where they look intimately into each other's eyes every 5 mins. 

 

They cared for each other. Especially Asami did, she even mentions it a couple of times when she wonders what she would do without Korra. And caring for each other is enough to start a relationship with someone.

[Lalalablah 1,538]

(you can't really deny that the relationship was built up, just go back and rewatch the show, you'll see)

 

 

I'm so happy korrasami was confirmed, I've been hoping they would get together since book 2 

I love how Korra handled the situation with Kuvira, explaining how similar they really were

Overall I was really impressed with the finale, and I'm sad to see it come to an end

Edited December 23, 2014 by Lalalablah

[Firaga 5,947]

Their "last minute information" was to confirm the ending, it was just a confirmation.

 

A confirmation that ruined their open-ended ending and just supports my opinion of how rushed their decision was.

 

Look, can we agree to disagree? I've had enough of this discussion for one day. All of this is strictly opinion anyway and I want to believe what I want to believe, thank you.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Firaga Sensei