Riku is a Very Well Developed Character

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

He destroyed the Destiny Islands, placing his friends and family in danger, because he was power hungryHe fought against his best friend with the intent of killing himHe allowed a monster to possess his body all so he could be stronger than his friendNothing will ever erase those events, no amount of good will ever make those simply disapearIf Riku simply shrugged it off and acted like it was no big deal he'd come off as a prickIt's not like he ate a cookie before having dinner: he nearly killed everyone he ever knew- people don't get over that in a year or two, the way Riku has acted is very realistic compared to the rest of the Kingdom Hearts cast and I admire itSometimes you yourself have good days and you have bad, some days Riku can get over the atrocities he committed but other days he's plagued by the guilt of what could have beenThe fact Ansem the Seeker of Darkness is still at large also shows his fight isn't over yet- Ansem's presence is a constant reminder of Riku's past- until Ansem is finally defeated and gone for good, Riku can never begin to seek closure over his past

Everyone else has. He's the only one who can't let it go. In fact, every entree he seems to dwell on it more and more.

CoM: I'm not a puppet any more.Days. "I screwed up, I have to make things rightKH II "Nobody look at me, I'm a despicable human being"3D " Do I even deserve the Keyblade?"At this rate in KH III he'll be saying he shouldn't even exist.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[Ruby Rose 8,591]

Everyone else has. He's the only one who can't let it go.

Being forgiven and forgiving yourself are two completely different thingsIf you put everyone who knew in harm's way and nearly cost them their lives you'd have to be pretty apathetic to let go of that simply because they forgave you- normal people would curse their weakness at having allowed that event to almost transpire, and would work to become stronger and independent so it would never happen againRiku has been doing this, and in his case Ansem the Seeker of Darkness still exists- he can't find closure and forgive himself competely until that man is gone for good, as that will prove he finally overcame his former weakness and not have to be reminded of it

[lostmemory123 1,056]

Everyone else has. He's the only one who can't let it go. In fact, every entree he seems to dwell on it more and more.

CoM: I'm not a puppet any more.Days. "I screwed up, I have to make things rightKH II "Nobody look at em, I'm a despicable human being"3D " Do I even deserve to be here?At this rate in KH III he'll be sayign he shouldn't even exist.

In other words,his situation is complicated. He cant simply just shrug it off,the stuff he put up with means more to him then it does to anyone else,to be honest isnt that far off from how regular people think,people I see are constantly hard on themselves,they doubt themselves,they dont know if they got what it takes,and in Riku's case, can someone like him overcome all the troubles he has faced,can he forgive himself?Not everyone can move on in a flick of a light.So what if he is the only one that thinks like this?One can argue that it makes him an overall better character,cause he really thinks about what he has done,he thinks about the people hes hurt,the wrong choices he made,and ect. But he somewhat got a more definite point at the end of KH3D,and odds are theyll finish off the conflict he has with himself in KH3

This is coming from a person who isnt even that much of a fanboy of Riku.

Edited December 12, 2014 by lostmemory123

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Being forgiven and forgiving yourself are two completely different things

But not only is he not forgiving himself, he's falling deeper and deeper into self-pity the more time that passes.

[lostmemory123 1,056]

GOD DANG IT THIS POST SHOULDNT EXIST

GOD DANG IT I JUST WANTED TO EDIT,HOW DID I END UP QUOTING MYSELF?

Edited December 12, 2014 by lostmemory123

[Captain Arrowguns 466]

Personally, I believe that when people say that Riku is a well developed character, it's because he's developed in a way that makes him relatable, and honestly, I believe the best example of this is Riku's constant struggle with darkness. Due to the darkness inside of his heart, Riku did some horrible, horrible things, things that he'll have to deal with for the rest of his life. It's only natural for these things to constantly haunt him, especially since these events didn't occur all that long ago. Sure, in Chain of Memories he said that he would walk the path to dawn, only to go back to brooding about giving in to darkness, but as illogical as that may be, it still makes a lot of sense. It's common for people to regret the things they've done, and be constantly haunted by them. Sure, there may be times where they feel better about them selves, but often the guilt and fear comes back. I'm not gonna lie, I've gone through something like this myself, although for different reasons. Riku's knows that the darkness that once controlled him is still in there, and will likely never, ever leave. For the rest of his life he has to battle with this darkness, and who's to say that it won't eventually win? However, despite all of this, Riku never gives up. He keeps going, often battered, but never broken. And although he's often fighting an uphill battle, Riku's always making progress. But the progress is slow, and at times he takes a step or two back. And yet, he keeps moving forward, becoming stronger and stronger, and debatable becoming even more resilient and heroic than Sora. It's because of these reasons that Riku's such a relatable and admirable character.

 

If you prefer characters that tend to shrug of their past failures and misdeeds, then that's perfectly fine by me. But personally, I prefer characters who have to constantly have to live with what they've done, and although they can't completely overcome the battles going on inside of themselves, at least at the moment, they keep going, becoming stronger than ever because of it, whether they realize it or not.

[Ruby Rose 8,591]

But not only is he not forgiving himself, he's falling deeper and deeper into self-pity the more time that passes.

Self-pity?"Strength, to protect what matters.""Mickey... I really appreciate it. But...I'll go wake Sora up. Look at his face. Sleeping like nothing's wrong—like there's nothing to even worry about. He's always been like that. The three of us would agree to work on the raft, and then this guy would go take a nap on the beach. You see, it's my job to keep him on his toes. Besides, what kind of Keyblade Master sleeps through his test? I'm doing it for me, too. Sora saved me once. And...I heard him call my name. He needs me."Those are quotes from near the end of DDD, the latest entry chronologically which is the latest point of the timeline we currently know aboutHe may have been throwing a pity party at first in DDD, but by the end he has grown more than he did in any other game- he's able to stand on his own without help from others and protect his friend with his own strengthThat is the current, canon Riku we know of at this point- that's a factThere's no deepening self-pity in him now, that's a confident young man who knows what he wants: he wishes to protect his best friend and use his strength to defend not only him, but everyone else he cares about and fulfill his job as a Master by safeguarding the worlds

Personally, I believe that when people say that Riku is a well developed character, it's because he's developed in a way that makes him relatable, and honestly, I believe the best example of this is Riku's constant struggle with darkness. Due to the darkness inside of his heart, Riku did some horrible, horrible things, things that he'll have to deal with for the rest of his life. It's only natural for these things to constantly haunt him, especially since these events didn't occur all that long ago. Sure, in Chain of Memories he said that he would walk the path to dawn, only to go back to brooding about giving in to darkness, but as illogical as that may be, it still makes a lot of sense. It's common for people to regret the things they've done, and be constantly haunted by them. Sure, there may be times where they feel better about them selves, but often the guilt and fear comes back. I'm not gonna lie, I've gone through something like this myself, although for different reasons. Riku's knows that the darkness that once controlled him is still in there, and will likely never, ever leave. For the rest of his life he has to battle with this darkness, and who's to say that it won't eventually win? However, despite all of this, Riku never gives up. He keeps going, often battered, but never broken. And although he's often fighting an uphill battle, Riku's always making progress. But the progress is slow, and at times he takes a step or two back. And yet, he keeps moving forward, becoming stronger and stronger, and debatable becoming even more resilient and heroic than Sora. It's because of these reasons that Riku's such a relatable and admirable character. If you prefer characters that tend to shrug of their past failures and misdeeds, then that's perfectly fine by me. But personally, I prefer characters who have to constantly have to live with what they've done, and although they can't completely overcome the battles going on inside of themselves, at least at the moment, they keep going, becoming stronger than ever because of it, whether they realize it or not.

^ThisYou win an Internet, sir

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Self-pity?"Strength, to protect what matters.""Mickey... I really appreciate it. But...I'll go wake Sora up. Look at his face. Sleeping like nothing's wrong—like there's nothing to even worry about. He's always been like that. The three of us would agree to work on the raft, and then this guy would go take a nap on the beach. You see, it's my job to keep him on his toes. Besides, what kind of Keyblade Master sleeps through his test? I'm doing it for me, too. Sora saved me once. And...I heard him call my name. He needs me."Those are quotes from near the end of DDD, the latest entry chronologically which is the latest point of the timeline we currently know aboutHe may have been throwing a pity party at first in DDD, but by the end he has grown more than he did in any other game- he's able to stand on his own without help from others and protect his friend with his own strengthThat is the current, canon Riku we know of at this point- that's a factThere's no deepening self-pity in him now, that's a confident young man who knows what he wants: he wishes to protect his best friend and use his strength to defend not only him, but everyone else he cares about and fulfill his job as a Master by safeguarding the worlds^ThisYou win an Internet, sir

So it seems, but that's way it looked like in CoM, which was also the last chronological entree at one point.And that's my point, He never seems to retain the confidence he earns by the end of the game. We don't know if he'll keep this new outlook in KH III or come back with an even more negative one like he's done in the past. You can't say just him being okay with himself at the end of a game shows growth when he's done it before and then retracted. He may even start doubting if he's worthy to be a Master.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[Ruby Rose 8,591]

So it seems, but that's way it looked like in CoM, which was also the last chronological entree at one point.And that's my point, He never seems to retain the confidence he earns by the end of the game. We don't know if he'll keep this new outlook in KH III or come back with an even more negative one like he's done in the past. You can't say just him being okay with himself at the end of a game shows growth when he's done it before and then retracted. He may even start doubting if he's worthy to be a Master.

Captain Arrowguns put it best"It's common for people to regret the things they've done, and be constantly haunted by them. Sure, there may be times where they feel better about them selves, but often the guilt and fear comes back."Riku exhibiting this isn't him 'growing and retracting" as you put it, the retractions are a part of his growth- it makes him human and relatable, which is pretty darn impressive considering he's a fictional characterRiku has grown from the cliché rival to a young man that struggles with his past while looking to secure a bright future, for a game series to create a character that is realistic in the way he addresses issues shouldn't be perceived as a weakness, but rather as a strength since in every title now he has fought against the forces of evil despite his internal struggles rather than giving up and surrendering to his guiltIt's simply one aspect of him, it doesn't define him but rather adds another dimension to his character- thus showing remarkable growth from the cocky kid we raced against on the Destiny Islands just to name a raft

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Captain Arrowguns put it best"It's common for people to regret the things they've done, and be constantly haunted by them. Sure, there may be times where they feel better about them selves, but often the guilt and fear comes back."Riku exhibiting this isn't him 'growing and retracting" as you put it, the retractions are a part of his growth- it makes him human and relatable, which is pretty darn impressive considering he's a fictional characterRiku has grown from the cliché rival to a young man that struggles with his past while looking to secure a bright future, for a game series to create a character that is realistic in the way he addresses issues shouldn't be perceived as a weakness, but rather as a strength since in every title now he has fought against the forces of evil despite his internal struggles rather than giving up and surrendering to his guiltIt's simply one aspect of him, it doesn't define him but rather adds another dimension to his character- thus showing remarkable growth from the cocky kid we raced against on the Destiny Islands just to name a raft

I get that struggles build character. I've gone through issues myself, big ones, ones that could have potentially put people in danger because of my actions But I got over them and moved on, I didn't dwell on them. It took me years to find the root of them, but one I did, getting over them only took moths. Once Riku accepted that the darkness was a part of him at the end of CoM, that should have been it, but it wasn't, he only got worse.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[Hero of Winds 2,576]

I think the problem here isn't Riku, or his growth, it's the way you view it. You look at what he sees on the level of just the words. However, through the use of body language (it's our major form of communication and is used well in anything requiring dialogue), Riku's words are filled with meaning. When he said things like "I didn't want to be found...not like this." he wasn't brooding about the darkness, he was expressing his emotional imbalance with the choices he made. He hadn't accepted what had become of him. Over time, Riku has come to terms with his decisions. In 3D, he wasn't complaining or brooding about Darkness, he simply felt that he wasn't worthy of wielding the Keyblade and testing himself under the Mark of Mastery was a perfect way to solve his problem.

I've had a long history of hatred for Riku. It wasn't until I played through 3D and finished Reverse/Rebirth that I came to terms with this problem and realized the development Riku had gone through as a character. 

 

It's totally fine if you're too busy nitpicking over misunderstanding it though.

[Hero of Winds 2,576]

I get that struggles build character. I've gone through issues myself, big ones, ones that could have potentially put people in danger because of my actions But I got over them and moved on, I didn't dwell on them. It took me years to find the root of them, but one I did, getting over them only took moths. Once Riku accepted that the darkness was a part of him at the end of CoM, that should have been it, but it wasn't, he only got worse.

With that thought process, you might as well blame Roxas for this. Riku's acceptance reversed the moment he felt weakness. 

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

With that thought process, you might as well blame Roxas for this. Riku's acceptance reversed the moment he felt weakness. 

It was reverse long before that , That's why he told Xion he was "the biggest nobody of them all". Throughout that whole year he was struggling with his darkness. When he uses it to defeat Roxas says he claims to have accepted it again, but then hides in shame.

 

If he feels weak or ashamed whenever he has to rely on it, then he obviously never really accepted it at all.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[Hero of Winds 2,576]

It was reverse long before that , That's why he told Xion he was "the biggest nobody of them all". Throughout that whole year he was struggling with his darkness. When he uses it to defeat Roxas says he claims to have accepted it again, but then hides in shame.

 

If he feels weak or ashamed whenever he has to rely on it, then he obviously never really accepted it at all.

In which is the case! The problem with Riku is that he thought he had control over the Darkness. He no longer feared it, but he never accepted it, hence his reason to walk the road to dawn. He wanted to ultimately get rid of the Darkness within him and awaken the light he held. A true disposition that was resolved in Dream Drop Distance.

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

In which is the case! The problem with Riku is that he thought he had control over the Darkness. He no longer feared it, but he never accepted it, hence his reason to walk the road to dawn. He wanted to ultimately get rid of the Darkness within him and awaken the light he held. A true disposition that was resolved in Dream Drop Distance.

And ultimately renders all his "development" from CoM onward non-existant and until we see KH III we can't say for sure if this isn't the same case. Yes he said he'd "turn the darkness into light" rather than "walk the path to dawn", but we don't know if he'll follow through. they're both ways of him claiming to have accepted the darkness, as he'd done before, but clearly didn't hold to.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[Ruby Rose 8,591]

I get that struggles build character. I've gone through issues myself, big ones, ones that could have potentially put people in danger because of my actions But I got over them and moved on, I didn't dwell on them. once Riku accepted that the darkness was a part of him at the end of CoM, that should have been it, but it wasn't, he only got worse.

We already have a protagonist who shrugs things off fairly quickly: SoraYou might not like troubled characters who can't let things go after an initial breakthrough, but it makes Riku more realDrug addicts may enter rehab and leave clean but they can still relapse- there's no guarantee your first victory means the war is wonBottom line: Riku is far from my favorite character but anyone who has played all the games so far is kidding themselves if they deny he has developed and grown over the course of this saga- despite all the reservations and doubts he holds about himself and the continuous "relapses" he undergoes, he still manages to fight against the forces of evil and protect the people he cares about without giving up in contrast to his early days in this series Edited December 12, 2014 by Ruby Rose

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

We already have a protagonist who shrugs things off fairly quickly: SoraYou might not like troubled characters who can't let things go after an initial breakthrough, but it makes Riku more realDrug addicts may enter rehab and leave clean but they can still relapse- there's no guarantee your first victory means the war is wonBottom line: Riku is far from my favorite character but anyone who has played all the games so far is kidding themselves if they deny he has developed and grown over the course of this saga- despite all the reservations and doubts he holds about himself and the continuous "relapses" he undergoes, he still manages to fight against the forces of evil and protect the people he cares about without giving up in contrast to his early days in this series

I never said I didn't like Riku, well, I didn't at first, but that was when he was a homicidal asshole, now I just feel bad that he's stuck in this eternal loop.  Anyway all I'm saying is he's not as developed as people like to believe. Like I said, he's twice said he accepted the darkness, and both times his actions afterward prove otherwise as he still sees it as a sign of weakness. And we have yet to see if the third time is any different.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[hatok 6,413]

Oh jeez guys

are we seriously doing the "you just don't get it" line now?

Deep and meaningful words? Give me a break. I'm tired of people using fan theories to justify KH's flaws

"Guys Xion's death scene is totally well done! Ice cream is symbolic of friendship! That line isn't stupid! Xion turning into ice cream isn't stupid!"

I'm going to deal with what the story gives me, and nothing more. I can read between the lines all I want, and believe me I do, but symbolism isn't a real thing, it's all about interpretation, it can mean anything you want it to

 

Make all the drug analogies, or call it realistic, or whatever, if those fan theories were represented in the game that'd be GREAT. Presenting darkness as a sort of drug that Riku struggles with that very much tears at him on a core level? That's great stories waiting to be written. But that's not the context we're given in KH. Instead we're given lesson after lesson about not being afraid of the dark. About darkness and light working together, and that sort of thing, and yet every time we're meant to take Riku's brooding about darkness even more seriously. "I learnt that darkness can be my strength... also, I gave in to the darkness how can any of my friends forgive me, am I worthy of wielding a keyblade!?"

It's a nonsensical duality that COULD be interesting if it was executed differently. But it's not

 

If you want to talk about the symbolic fan theories, that's a topic for another day, but in this topic we're dealing with what the games themselves tell us

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

 I'm tired of people using fan theories to justify KH's flaws

 

I wanna high five you so goddamn hard right now.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

a lot of people go around claiming that Riku is the deepest most well done characters in Kingdom Hearts... and I just don't see it

 

Like okay, in KH1 he's basically Gary Oak, or Sasuke, or Vegeta, or any other generic rival type character. But that's not the Riku anybody seems to care about. It's what came after. His u turn, into a completely different character

 

a character that REFUSES TO CHANGE

like man, people hate how they keep reusing Sora's KH1 outfit, but I'm more tired oft hem reusing the same personality for Riku despite his 'growth'

 

Like let's look at hain of Memories. Probably the most reasonable depiction. He still retains some of the cockiness he had in KH1, which is easily contrasted with Sora's CoM depiction. He's also pretty upset with himself over giving in to the darkness, which, you know, makes sense. The events of KH1 JUST happened, it makes sense to carry that over

 

So the game ends with Riku realizing that darkness isn't something he can get rid of. He owns it, and uses it in tandem with the light. This is summed up with his final words where he refuses the path of light or dark, and instead takes the path between

okay, so far so good right?

So where do we see him next?

 

358/2 Days

 

Where he talks about how he gave in to the darkness and that makes him a phony, and he broods and complains, darkness darkness darkness. ultimately his arc ends with him... giving in to the darkness. which is now a bad thing, I guess. despite this Riku retains his sense of self, yet again proving he can walk the path of light and dark

 

So then KH2 rolls along and

Riku's arc is

oh no

I gave into the darkness

that's so terrible

I can't let anybody see me

because I'm so dark

darkness oh no

brood brood

angst angst

how will I face anybody

and then this ends with Riku regaining his body and darkness powers, again showin us that Riku can walk the path of light and dark

 

This plot point of darkness permeates SO DEEPLY into Riku's character 'growth' that it shows up again in Re:Coded where Data Riku somehow has darkness inside him waiting to be exploited despite not being the same Riku or going through any of the same events as the real Riku. The darkness is just... there

and he feels bad

and complains

and broods and angsts

 

But don't worry, next game KH3D!

Where Riku doesn't think he deserves to try being a keyblade master because

darkness

darkness

blah

blah

 

holy carp just shut up about the darkness its been like two years

 

I'm sorry, but beside the original drastic shift after KH1 Riku hasn't really grown as a character at all

and no, his constant inflicting of self harm as 'penance' doesn't count. Real character growth would have him learn to deal with the ramifications of his actions, not learn to be okay with Sora not caring that he destroyed the world and tried to kill him

I agree for the most part

 

People say he's a well developed character because most of them like to fangirl over his design and and the whole "lone-wolf" cliche.

 

And while sure I liked Riku in DDD(cuz it feels like he finally got over it),I couldn't stand him nor any of the praise he got in previous games

 

in KH1 he tried to pull a Kain(From FF4) by going through the whole betrayal thing which I can never understand how he believes the evil witch he just met over his childhood friend who btw JUST OFFERED HIM TO COME WITH THEM ON THE GUMMI SHIP BEFORE SHE TELLS HIM THAT STUPID LIE

 

And in CoM and the other games after he goes full Shinji Ikari mode(just a bit more competent) for like 2 to three games.

 

Again it's mostly his design and the whole brooding thing that makes people fangirl over him

 

 

They better let him be more confident in KH3 cuz I'm getting tired from how many times can he(and also Ansem SoD) can spam the word darkness

[Dio Brando 5,810]

*coughstillbetterthanSoracough*

That's like saying Squall is better than Zidane.

[littleTSUBAME 483]

And in CoM and the other games after he goes full Shinji Ikari mode(just a bit more competent) for like 2 to three games.

Huh, that's going pretty far.---There's no point in arguing about this though, as people have different interpretations and overall just like different characters. I quess people search for a character they can relate to (at least I do) and start liking a certain character when they remind them of themselves. After all, that's just what happens in the real life too. Similarity is attractive.Plus, people tend to look at things from different perspectives. For example, I often find characters with mental issues interesting, because psychology interests me while others, who don't share this interest, find them annoying and pathetic (yep, I actually find Shinji quite interesting).

[Dio Brando 5,810]

Huh, that's going pretty far.---There's no point in arguing about this though, as people have different interpretations and overall just like different characters. I quess people search for a character they can relate to (at least I do) and start liking a certain character when they remind them of themselves. After all, that's just what happens in the real life too. Similarity is attractive.Plus, people tend to look at things from different perspectives. For example, I often find characters with mental issues interesting, because psychology interests me while others, who don't share this interest, find them annoying and pathetic (yep, I actually find Shinji quite interesting).

Maybe I was a bit exaggerating,but personally I only began to like Riku in DDD,before that eh

 

As for Shinji I meant the one from the original Neon Genesis Evangelion,not the one from the Rebuild of Evangelion movies

 

In fact I really like Shinji in the Evangelion movies and the changes they did to him

[littleTSUBAME 483]

Maybe I was a bit exaggerating,but personally I only began to like Riku in DDD,before that eh As for Shinji I meant the one from the original Neon Genesis Evangelion,not the one from the Rebuild of Evangelion movies In fact I really like Shinji in the Evangelion movies and the changes they did to him

Call me crazy but I actually like the original Shinji. : D Sure he's a wimp and can't make up his mind, but that's what sets him apart from many other protagonists. I find his insecurity interesting and to some extent, relatable. I think they really screwed up almost all the characters in Rebuilds. Their issues were toned down (which I think pleased some people but disappointed the others) which made them very stereotypical. The most interesting part in Evangelion (for me at least) are the characters and their minds as well as the interaction between the characters.But that's a matter of preference, really.Oops, this just got really OT.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

Call me crazy but I actually like the original Shinji. : D Sure he's a wimp and can't make up his mind, but that's what sets him apart from many other protagonists. I find his insecurity interesting and to some extent, relatable. I think they really screwed up almost all the characters in Rebuilds. Their issues were toned down (which I think pleased some people but disappointed the others) which made them very stereotypical. The most interesting part in Evangelion (for me at least) are the characters and their minds as well as the interaction between the characters.But that's a matter of preference, really.Oops, this just got really OT.

For me not really as they kept what they were mostly known for intact with a couple of changes.I actually can relate to Shinji more now as they're showing us how he's been unfairly treated by his father Gendo and they've shown us why we should feel sorry for him instead of making him bitch and moan all the time while running away from all of his problem like what he used to do in the original(it got even worse with End of Evangelion for me).

 

But here I can sympathize with Shinji,I can see why he don't want to pilot the Eva,and heck it actually showcased some admirable courage from Shinji if you asked me since in both the first and second movie,even though he was scared and tormented,he mustered enough courage and guts to man up and save what's dear to him,which in this case is Rei.

 

Anyway I won't derail this thread but I'll be happy if we continued the Evangelion discussion sometime soon ^_^