Web
Analytics Made Easy - StatCounter
Jump to content
  • Sign Up
Dravoo

How do you feel about the series looking back?

Recommended Posts

I'm not really sure how to title this :sad: I was given the okay so long as this focused on the series so please keep civil? ;-;

 

I seen this on tumblr a day or two ago. To be honest it feels a little over cynical but it did get me thinking about how I've felt as the series has went on. So I was wondering how it made others feel about the series when you started and now.

 

 

source link-http://derekscorner.tumblr.com/post/134309657222/why-i-fell-out-of-love-with-kingdom-hearts

I feel that I should start out saying that at one time I truly loved it. I loved the discussion, I loved the theories and ideas, I loved the discussion.

 

I literally combed through interviews, in-game reports and threads but….as time went on my love faded into more like obligation then into frustration and finally realization. Realization that I just couldn’t like this series anymore, the realization that I couldn’t see it as anything more than a mess. I couldn’t look at plot summaries, reports or interviews without groaning aloud.

What I have now lies beyond jaded. Nothing remains now. I destroyed everything I made out of lost love. Literal encyclopedia-level threads and their accompanying tumblr versions. The entire time asking myself the same questions.

“What changed?” “Where’s the magic?” “Why is this so needlessly convoluted or complex?” “Why does the MCP’s words in KH2 of superfluous ring true for so much of the series to me?”

Questions I still can’t begin to comprehend to this very day. How did the simple yet magical and endearing adventure of the first game become what is now?

~Looking Back~

Posted Image

This right here. This was the starting point. That simple beauty, that magic simplicity, that crossover everyone said was crazy. That game my twelve old self begged for because of Disney while not knowing what the hell Final Fantasy was.

Now before you start whining this is a “bashing” or “KH1 lovers rant” let me stop you. I’m well aware I have nostalgia. In my opinion only a fool would deny they have nostalgia for something they loved at a younger age. I’m also perfectly aware this game too isn’t without flaw. In fact Kingdom Hearts 2 actually had better design tech wise. Especially with it’s camera. (even if it was ultimately too easy)

So just take a moment to hear me out. This was the starting point. This right here. A simple but oddly charming tale of a boy flung into a magical Disney adventure that just so happened to have alternate versions of your favorite Final Fantasy characters roaming it to give it that little extra spice.

Many hate it, many love it, but none of you can deny this game had a different feeling to it. A feeling none of the other games managed to replicate or carry. Call it the atmosphere, call it the zoomed in camera, call it what you want but I say it’s because of it’s story.
A simple tale you see in most rpgs, monsters destroying the world, magic, a young boy thrust into adventure. Nothing standout yet somehow it was. Heck thanks to mild mistranslation it even had the “chosen one” archetype in the english versions of the game. (in the original version Sora is never called a “chosen one” or “keyblade master” just a simple “keyblade hero” or “hero chosen by the keyblade”)

Ignoring lots of it’s metaphysical aspects, symbolism and so on (since that’d make this way longer than it is already) ya had a relative simple story of friendship here.
Sora, Donald and Goofy go from needing each other out of necessity to becoming true friends. Sora learns from his travels and unlike the games to follow is portrayed like a normal boy would be. Having an actual inkling of intelligence in contrast to his shounen “simple/stpuid hero” set up in games to follow.
Every interaction had meaning, almost everything was a lesson, Sora goes from only caring about Riku and Kairi to realizing there’s a threat he has to stop. His relationship with Donald and Goofy grows with each scene into that ever so loved trio fans loved so much in Chain of Memories and Kingdom Hearts 2.

 

Posted Image

He learns form Tarzan that “friends are in our hearts”. From Hercules Sora learned that what’s important to being a true hero isn’t brute strength but “strength of heart” and that Donald, Goofy and his other friends are that strength. From Triton Sora learns the keyblade is just as feared as it is revered, and so on. Everything taught him and culminated in his famous ‘My Friends are my power!’ speech.

That’s what this game did, that to me, gave it it’s unique feeling. Almost everything mattered, even the Disney worlds and characters were interwoven in this original story contributing to the overall plot. Unlike later games which was mostly a copy & paste plot of the movies with Sora thrown in.

I fell in love with this story. It was endearing to me. A true waltz into a Disney adventure that a Disney kid of the 90s like me grew up wishing for. When I finally beat that game for the first time I was a mix of sad, happy and fuming mad thanks to him being separated from his friends at the end. (most other fans of the day will say they cried, I could only rage lol)

I couldn’t wait for more to be honest and now I realize that I pretty much rode this feeling for years. Waiting for a title that would carry on this endearing story, that unique feeling.
Telling myself I couldn’t wait for more while never realizing that I liked each title released less and less from the one prior. Then one day after having spent a few years on reading interviews, in-game reports, disappointment and arguing theories I just asked myself “why?”.

That’s when I looked back and realized I had been fooling myself for years. This feeling never returned, in fact, each title strayed further from it. Over and over I just wondered “why?”. Then that’s when realized it was the games themselves and Nomura’s own faults.

 

 

Posted Image

Among may be the series most grave shortcoming of interviews and reports. These were such a…..horrible idea.
Nomura once said he liked ambiguity but as the series goes on you see in interviews that he answers more and more details in them. Details that should be placed in the main form of media itself (the games) so the fans of his series can actually understand it.

“Xions’ keybalde is fake?” “What do you mean soul is just a battery?” “What do you mean Sora’s kingdom key was originally Riku’s and not Ven’s?” “How do you know the voice in KH1’s tutorial wasn’t Ven!?” “Roxas and Ventus are different people?”

Anyone having been around such a fandom as long as I have is very familiar with these and other such questions. Questions asked by a majority of the fanbase that doesn’t have a community like this site or other means to learn of these interviews to know these things. Worse yet they’re familiar with fans who doesn’t even know some of these questions are answered in the games themselves within the walls of text that is the Ansem Reports and other such documents in the Jiminey or game Journals. (which some are just to lazy to read)

I have even encountered fans that were so disgruntled by this handling of facts and mythos that despite knowing of them they openly discounted them. Taking the ‘author is dead’ approach with the logic 'if it’s not in the game then it shouldn’t matter’. And at this stage I honestly can’t blame them. I find such people justified in their reasoning. Facts of a story should be within the main frame of that story. In this stories case, it’s games.

At first this wasn’t really a problem. In KH1 the reports mostly gave you insight into the Ansem which is largely only referenced by Leon and his gang for much of the story. (if you took the time to talk to them throughout the game)
Chain of Memories too had no interviews/reports of which to worry about and while Kingdom Hearts 2 had interview material it wasn’t nothing you really needed to know to understand or theorize this series.

It was during this earlier era, what some call 'Pre-Days’, that many theorizers or old lore rmasters came from. It is also this era of which I give some praise to Kingdom Hearts 2 which I usually criticize. While KH2 had writing issues and overly easy difficulty it still had ambiguity. It gave something to the fan base. It ignited our fires. Like the original Kingdom Hearts, Kingdom Hearts 2’s reports mostly gave insight to the “real” Ansem and his struggle and banishment.

It also gave you the tidbit that the fake Ansem (aka Xehanort) the “real Ansem’s” foremost apprentice being an amnesiac or displaying what the real Ansem (aka “Diz) called “super human” feats. These things brought on a great and long lasting wave of theories and discussions. (although ultimately these things would bad for the character and series in their own right)

While this place and others was full of flaming back then there was those gem threads. Threads of theories and discussions using nothing but observation and interruption alone. The discussions of Roxas having a heart or not will forever be fond memories to me.

Sadly now these very types of discussions or talks can, and usually are, stopped in their tracks or shattered entirely thanks to Nomura. One quote, one messily sentence, one mention of an interview destroys the drive to have discussions or theories like days of old. People lose interest and at times even wait for someone to just come along and quote Nomura rather than discussing something properly.

Nomura has literally killed the drive to talk or theorize about his own series because he can’t stick to his own strive for ambiguity.

Far more damaging however is how most of the facts revealed in this fashion are absent from the game leaving a strong sense of convolution, complexity and lost among fans. Something Nomura once gave his atypical smirk or laugh about when regarding how lost fans were with Dream Drop Distance. (should someone in his position really smile or chuckle about his fans being lost in understanding his story?)

Then there is the characters.

 

Posted Image

Arguably the biggest and at this point ONLY draw the fans have to this series. Ask anyone, remember your own internet surfing, ya know what I’m talking about. When you go through anything Kingdom Hearts almost always the things people talk about, make fan art about, or say draws them is the characters.
Not so much story, rarely because they like the f**ked up puzzle pieced story/mythos, but characters.

Don’t deny it, we all have one. That one character or group we like seeing or playing as. That feeling is ultimately the driving force that keeps some fans coming back. And can you blame them for it? The story and mythos facts are a mess so casually enjoying the characters is easily the best way to enjoy this series. (or in my opinion the only way left too)

However there’s something else I’ve noticed yet many deny. Something most don’t even bring up. So let me ask you dear reader, would you still care about let’s say Xion or Roxas if their ending wasn’t tragic? What about Aqua? Ventus maybe?
Come now how many of you can honestly say you’d love or feel as attached to these people if there wasn’t some tragic or sad story and scenes to pull at your heartstrings?

In a recent thread while watching some members debating I noticed what someone had always mentioned to me before. Something I didn’t notice till a member specifically mentioned wanting a scenario in which Riku-Replica is specifically brought back just to have a villainous role then heart-to-heart talk with Riku and die again. I just….I just couldn’t comprehend this ideology. How can one take enjoyment out of what would basically be a rehash of this character’s story arc in Chain of Memories? It’s basically bringing back this resolved and beautiful character just to kill him again for an attempt at tear-jerking scenes.

I….I just….this moment sadden me greatly. When I saw this post or their other ideas like it I realized that for the most part fans of this series can’t feel something, anything, for a character or that it was important/meaningful or touching unless somebody dies tragically or has a tormented existence attached to them. (something member Sephiroth0812 always pointed out in the past)

Can the characters really have gotten so hollow over the years that all they have to them is this tragedy? Then, when I looked back yet again, I realized that’s basically all they did have.

What happened to enjoying the characters for other reasons? Like enjoying Sora’s growth in the original Kingdom Hearts? His brainwashed and near antagonistic state in Chain of Memories? Goofy’s odd level of perception in KH2? Tron being a lovable ass dork? Aqua and to extents Xion being the first females to actually do something other than being hostage characters?

What happened to trying to develop these individuals properly? In this entire series Riku is the only one to be developed on a proper scale of what could be called character development. Even Sora who actually developed in the original Kingdom Hearts was regressed in Kingdom Hearts 2 and onward.

 

Posted Image

What was so lovable in the original Kingdom Hearts was the original characters growth and what was lovable in Chain of Memories and Kingdom Hearts 2 was their continued interaction of that friendship founded in the original Kingdom Hearts.
But looking at it now you see that Sora, Donald, and Goofy are nearly the only ones properly developed as a trio or friends. I mean sure Sora and Riku have decent scenes in the series. Sure Roxas’ group has more effort put in than most but in the end they all feel hollow in comparison to Sora’s ties with Donald & Goofy founded in the original Kingdom Hearts.

A member once said something that has forever stuck to my memory; “Days tried to hard, while BBS didn’t try hard enough”. Seeing how true this is is almost painful. Days by far had the most scenes between it’s friend trio yet even they still felt like a hollow montage of ice cream scenes, Xion running away, Roxas being angst Jesse McCartney, and Axel feeling guilty. All the while I sit there wondering why a man ten years older was even hanging out with two kids.

Their tragedy and drama was literally forced down my throat at nearly every turn of the story. The last moment I cared about them while playing was the last time of two times I laughed, the stick scene. The game just tried to damn hard to make me care and had the entirely opposite effect. I didn’t care, in fact I was happy when Xion died because I knew I was finally about done. (I do however give the localization team of Days props for their more natural feeling dialogue)

Then there was Birth by Sleep. The entire game tries to tell me that these three people (Terra, Aqua and Ventus) are lifelong/close friends when I see nothing of the sort.
In fact these characters hardly have any scenes together at all! And when they do it’s full poor writing reasons for the sake of keeping them separated and to ensure Xehanort’s success. (usually at the expense of Terra’s intelligence or Ven’s maturity)
This is not even factoring in the whole questionably of Eraqus, Terra and this supposed father-son dynamic they both apparently didn’t mind ignoring to nearly kill each other.

Now I’ll be the first to admit that Aqua’s story felt the most empty at times. Bumping around without ever actually knowing what’s going on or affecting the events much. Granted I feel she was hit the least of the three in terms if the bad writing due to her having little interaction with Xehanort and his plot as a result. Which makes her the most salvageable or tolerable of the cast. (although this also made her feel disjointed from the story altogether)

While Days tried to hard to force their relationship and tragedy down my throat Birth by Sleep dragged me along through a story of each character questioning the own worth of their friendship that’s supposedly so strong. Assuming I’m supposed to believe these three are as close or closer than other trios.

There was just nothing there to make me think these people were actually more than acquaintances. Nothing that felt substantial. Nothing that felt like a bond of friendship seen in other characters from basically any of the previous titles. Nothing that felt like their efforts meant anything before and even less after Xehanort’s “revelations” in Dream Drop Distance.

Then there’s the “main” trio of Sora, Riku and Kairi. These three, I wont lie, feel the most hollow of all. Thanks largely in part to their exceptionally poor use of Kairi. Something the member LightUpTheSky452 once went over in her own editorial. (in case your curious: http://forums.khinsider.com/future-kingdom-hearts/174740-kairi-true-forgotten-girl-kingdom-hearts.html )

As she so profoundly said, Kairi continually has a lacking absence from the story. In the original Kingdom Hearts it wasn’t so bad. She had a role, albeit a bit of a stereotypical one, but still she was a driving force for Sora and Riku. They cared, it felt like they cared, it felt like she too was important to them as a friend when she pulled Sora out of his heartless state or when Riku fought off possession to let Kairi escape.

But just one game later? No. Starting with Chain of Memories what we got was a continued trend of Kairi vanishing to the point of her “others” having more significance to Sora and Riku than her through their adventures.
Hell their entire reunion in KH2 was completely awkward. She hugs Sora and he’s just all spaced out yet he kneels over balling for Riku? Shouldn’t they all be crying? Shouldn’t they all hug?

The “Destiny Trio” is honestly more of a duo while Sora’s actual trio is Donald and Goofy. They all feel like Sora’s friends but Kairi doesn’t feel like Riku’s or vice versa.

Perhaps the worst part of all this would be that the manga series by Shiro Amano does these characters so beautifully. I actually care about manga Xion, manga Kairi is actually developed, even the largely absent Organization 13 has personalities.
If a manga artist can give these characters life and personality outside their tragedy even with limited space to write it out then why can’t Nomura? How can the creative mind behind this series make me so happy to see Xion die while the manga artist can make me sad to see her go?

Then lastly one, albeit random, thing. I found Aqua slightly more salvageable by Nomura’s own shock that an original character with no ties to previous ones could become such a fan favorite. He was literally surprised that a character not sharing the same face or model as previous ones could be loved. Learning this made me worry about his mindset when making any of these characters to start with.

 

Posted Image

Worse yet I think is the supporting characters and villains. Especially the main villain, Xehanort.
The 'team rocket edition’ of kingdom hearts, the duo Pete & Maleficent, aside perhaps the last two nails in my coffin as a kingdom hearts fan were two main things. First was relevancy of characters and keyblade. Second was Xehanort himself as a villain.

My issue with relevancy ties into the keybalde. I know many bitch about keyblades being handed out like candy while others try to argue that it’s still exclusive on the universal scale. But to me it’s not about exclusive. I couldn’t care less about that because even twenty wielders is a pin drop in a universe full of worlds.
Or put simpler, I dont care one damn bit how many there are. As of chi there is basically thousands anyway. BUT what I do care about is how the importance of a character is being shifted onto it.

Especially when the earlier titles carried themselves with several key characters with only two or three actually having keyblades.
Riku, Xehanort before he became a mess, Axel, and Namine are just a few such originally keyless characters that come to mind.

To me many of the most unique and cool aspects of the series or characters was their lack of keyblades but continued influence on story. Riku for instance had his subplot with darkness and controlling it. I loved that. He was unlike any person previously. He was strong and unique simply because he managed to do what no other has and control darkness in tempered manner. The fact that he could still use keyblades but didnt’ have one himself was also cool.

Xehanort was also far more interesting as a being when he wasn’t a dumbledore-aizen-godtier-ripoff with a keyblade. When he was that partial amnesic and former wielder he was far more intriguing as a person. He was dangerous and relevant simply because of how dangerous a mind he had. Not a “herp derp I knew you’d do that” kinda mind. Just a mind that was highly intelligent and without boundaries.

Now it’s like you can’t be important whatsoever unless your Xehanort, one of his pawns or have a giant key. Just because multiple wielders have been a fact since the original Kingdom Hearts does not mean that every character in our current story should have them.

To me this follows an extremely uninteresting or unappealing route in which characters that could be more are shafted like in other series such as DBZ where your useless unless your a super saiyan, or Bleach were basically only Ichigo does anything at the expense of EVERYONE, etc.
Many series both in games, shows and mangas/comics have fallen into this rut. One way to look at it is that I lost interest for these characters because they fall onto a keyblade paradigm. There is no more uniqueness here.

 

Posted Image

Other aspects of the mythos and keyblade that began to gnaw at me was the ceremony and Xblade. No matter how one tries to rationalize it to me several concepts brought forward in BBS I think could’ve been done without. The inheritance ceremony was superfluous because it’s painfully obvious it’s there solely to give forced connections between Terra, Aqua, Kairi and Riku. More of Nomura thinking new characters and previous ones HAVE to be tied somehow. In this case needing to establish why Terra, Aqua, Ven etc, are important in a series that already had almost half a dozen entries and acting as if they had played a major roll all along, but it’s mostly a plot device to help further tie other characters into the story.

Between Sora bypassing inheritance and with Terra performing it despite not being an actual master just screams unnecessary for the sake of having it and forced character connections.
I mean really? Kairi having a ceremony by accident just to explain her keyblade in Kingdom Hearts 2? This on it’s own feels incredibly lazy.

The keyblade already had an explained reason for why it chooses people in that it simply does so. This did not need elaboration or contradiction.

As for the origin/Xblade I have a love-hate with this thing. On the one hand I can’t help but agree that it being a weapon originally of evil intent is a break from the norm. On the other hand however I find the keyblades mysticism and fun is lost entirely. Despite being a powerful weapon in it’s own right its now made to be cheap scrap in the face of the Xblade.
Expanding on backgrounds is something that happens in an ongoing story but such things can be done without sacrificing something of things established previously. We already had one special keyblade in the form of Rikus in the original Kingdom Hearts so I see no reason why the Xblade needing explaining beyond it being able to open/summon kingdom hearts.

Then there was the nobodies….fine on paper yes but…it all just feels…pointless now. Ya know? What was the point of building up of these villains only to almost completely shaft them in Kingdom Hearts 2? You hardly see these villains or even lesser nobodies. Only for them to become important to the narrative after they’re human again in Dream Drop Distance? They just feel overrated and poorly implemented.

I dunno…it just feels a huge shame to me that I can see fans make up ideas or tell me their own interruptions of this series and get far less convoluted methods while retaining the same outcome that Nomura gave. It just gives the impression he adds on to what doesn’t need it just for the sake of doing so while ignoring what could use adding or proper explanation.

What finally destroyed my interest in this series though, that last bar of HP, was Xehanort. I can’t stand him as a villain. He’s totally unbelievable as a villain. It’s a fantasy story I know but that’s no excuse. In Dream Drop Distance we have this overly complex gathering of “recompleted”, time traveling and otherwise versions of this man. Worse yet he proclaims that everything up until this specific game was planned? Really?

That is just way to damn unbelievable. That’s almost Aizen-level in terms of bullsh*t. (if you dont know Aizen you are lucky)
“It was all my doing”? Really? This not only single single-handedly destroyed any semblance of individuality his other versions had, but also completely and further cheapened the events and struggles of the characters in Birth by Sleep or even the series as a whole.

 

Posted Image

Then what was the point of all this? Why not just go for the endgame master plan from the start? Looking at this all I see is just an excuse to bypass this question and explain why the other games happened at all. Especially with Xehanorts convoluted limitations of traveling through time that lets him alter the present yet not the past.

What little faith I had was just shattered here. It felt like writing was backed into a wall and not sure what to do. Felt like in order to build up the old Xehanort they cut all any unanswered or fun aspects of the others to say they was puppets of this particular version.

At this point I realized that what I was playing was a series literally that was warped and forcibly built up using the handheld entries of Days, Birth by Sleep and Dream Drop Distance in order to even create a story for the KH3 fans have demanded for thirteen years. Taking an otherwise solid story of KH1-CoM-KH2 and adding more to what didn’t need it just to build a story.

It’d have been far more believable, in-line with character or even human for him to say he’s simply learned from his past mistakes. It’d have been simpler to exclude time travel. Seriously think about this, how can Ansem know to go to the past to recruit young Xehanort and start this mess if young Xehanort forgets? All these beings hold the heart and memories of the same person, if the youngest variation forgot they should all forget.

With this I just quit caring. I lost my love for the kingdom hearts series. It hadn’t grown in a way that I can honestly call it enjoyable. It’s villain is just some mess I can’t even take seriously. It’s story is a plot-driven mess and it’s gameplay has completely lost it’s luster starting with the deck command system. I try and can’t even bring myself to sit through and play most of these games anymore.

I know many love the deck system but I just find it incredibly dull and repetitive. The newly brought in Flow motion mechanic is also incredibly off putting to me. And no kids you can’t turn flow motion off. You can disable abilities but that just makes you flow motion with no control over Sora/Riku.

Worse yet each entry of it makes using the keyblade more pointless since it’s damage is always pitiful. Granted just swinging the keyblade around can be monotonous as well but at least Kingdom Hearts 1 or hell even Kingdom Hearts 2 gave me incentive and means to mix up my mashing with magic and strikes. (especially with the gem of Tech Points in KH1)

I still love the original Kingdom Hearts. I can and do replay it without ever being bored but I can’t say the same for the rest of this series. Like most I find myself here simply waiting for Kingdom Hearts 3 to get some closure to what’s turned into a long and questionable chapter in my life.

Now when I think of the kingdom hearts series I always wonder what could’ve been. What would it have been like had Nomura not been stretched thin with projects? What would it have been had he had talented writing potential to guide his ideas? What was his original plan for the series when it was just Kingdom Hearts 1, 2 and Birth by Sleep? How could so much console spreading and the unintended titles of Chain of Memories, Days, Coded, Dream Drop Distance have warped it so far?

I think the question I ask myself most though is how this went from a charming character-driven tale to being a horribly built plot-driven story….

After thirteen years, some fun discussions and many more less fun ones I have lost my love for Kingdom Hearts.

 

 

 

I'm sure more will disagree than agree with it but I figured it could be a decent topic. So..uh..I'm sorry I'm not good at this. I just really like seeing peoples opinions on things. (please be civil ;-; )

Edited by Dravoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, I'm aware of how flawed and complicated the Overall Kingdom Hearts story has become, along with Nomura's semi-failure to completely capture his ideas into the game and whatnot. 

 

BUT even so, I don't care about most of its flaws. Because no story or game is perfect, and I prefer to accept these stories as they are right now. Anyways the whole series has still given me the feels and always painfully tugged at my own heart strings. 

 

And what keeps on pulling me back into it, albeit obsessively, is not only the Disney characters, but also that potential relationship between Sora and Kairi. These two people are one of the very reasons why I keep on coming back.

 

Anyways, it doesn't matter to me if a story is flawed or filled with plotholes that not a lot of people care about. As long as they deliver the feels and/or capture any emotion from the audience, whatsoever, I'm fine with it.

Edited by GGDude00

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking back, I feel like it's been a thrill ride you know? I feel like that it's been an experience that needs to be had rather than understood. My love for Kingdom Hearts is as great as my affinity to the Furry Community! It's well ingrained and no matter what happens with KH3, my expectations and love for this game will always be met!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, to be honest, I just skimmed that junk after they started complaining about everything (No offense to the writer). 

Yeah, okay, KH is flawed: Does KH 2 retcon Sora's strength from Com and KH? Yup, a bit.

Did BBS make a lick of sense the first playthrough? Ha, no. 

Was Days trying too hard? Yeah.. 

 

But KH is still going to draw fans, despite flaws. No media exists that is perfect. 

 

The main draw for me, personally, wasn't ever really Sora or Riku or anybody in the cast (*GASP*), but the idea of running amok in Disney movies. More so in KH 1, where every damn thing in Wonderland changes stuff, and Halloween Town had six areas to get lost in. 

plots going haywire or not, I'm going to largely ignore it, go with the story as it gets delivered in each game (plot holes and retcons included) and keep at it. 

I'd only truly loose interest if the Disney aspect was dropped for full on Final Fantasy, or the main trio were dropped for all new characters. 

 

this got long... Sorry. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, I'm aware of how flawed and complicated the Overall Kingdom Hearts story has become, along with Nomura's semi-failure to completely capture his ideas into the game and whatnot. 

 

BUT even so, I don't care about most of its flaws. Because no story or game is perfect, and I prefer to accept these stories as they are right now. Anyways the whole series has still given me the feels and always painfully tugged at my own heart strings. 

 

And what keeps on pulling me back into it, albeit obsessively, is not only the Disney characters, but also that potential relationship between Sora and Kairi. These two kids are one of the very reasons why I keep on coming back.

 

Anyways, it doesn't matter to me if a story is flawed or filled with plotholes that not a lot of people care about. As long as they deliver the feels and/or capture any emotion from the audience, whatsoever, I'm fine with it.

These are my thoughts exactly! Video games stories will have flaws and the only thing we can do is accept them :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, to be honest, I just skimmed that junk after they started complaining about everything (No offense to the writer). 

Yeah, okay, KH is flawed: Does KH 2 retcon Sora's strength from Com and KH? Yup, a bit.

Did BBS make a lick of sense the first playthrough? Ha, no. 

Was Days trying too hard? Yeah.. 

 

But KH is still going to draw fans, despite flaws. No media exists that is perfect. 

 

The main draw for me, personally, wasn't ever really Sora or Riku or anybody in the cast (*GASP*), but the idea of running amok in Disney movies. More so in KH 1, where every damn thing in Wonderland changes stuff, and Halloween Town had six areas to get lost in. 

plots going haywire or not, I'm going to largely ignore it, go with the story as it gets delivered in each game (plot holes and retcons included) and keep at it. 

I'd only truly loose interest if the Disney aspect was dropped for full on Final Fantasy, or the main trio were dropped for all new characters. 

 

this got long... Sorry. 

Yeah you're right. That's why I said it was an experience to be had not to be understood. I love the game for all of it. What some see as a flaw I see as a curious turn in a different direction. Of course I'm also the one who believes with all his heart and is till looking for ways to prove, Sonic 06 was better than most (sorry EVERYONE) believes it to be. But my other problems aside, Kingdom Hearts is a great game series that no matter which direction it took, I always enjoyed it. I actually played it high one day when I tried weed when it was legalized in my hometown. I made Halloween Town scary as heck and wonderland like playing LSD dream simulator, but it was like a ride you never wanna get off of! If any future KH game come out for PS4, Wii U, NX, or 3DS, you can bet your sea-salt ice cream that I will be buying it!

Edited by Niko Collins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah you're right. That's why I said it was an experience to be had not to be understood. I love the game for all of it. What some see as a flaw I see as a curious turn in a different direction. Of course I'm also the one who believes with all his heart and is till looking for ways to prove, Sonic 06 was better than most (sorry EVERYONE) believes it to be. But my other problems aside, Kingdom Hearts is a great game series that no matter which direction it took, I always enjoyed it. I actually played it high one day when I tried weed when it was legalized in my hometown. I made Halloween Town scary as heck and wonderland like playing LSD dream simulator, but it was like a ride you never wanna get off of! If any future KH game come out for PS4, Wii U, NX, or 3DS, you can bet your sea-salt ice cream that I will be buying it!

I wouldn't recommend playing ANY KH while high xD Might scar yourself for life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LMAO! Man I know that the Kingdom Hearts series has it's flaws, of course other video games, novels, animes, comics, and movies has flaws as well. Some of elements in the Kingdom Hearts series don't make sense to me but till this day I still enjoy this series and I still wanting to learn more about the mythos of Kingdom Hearts series. The Kingdom Hearts series still has an interesting story and it's universe still draws me in, whether it's a main game or side-story but it still draws me in until I play the game and see whether or not I like the story or not. I for one I'm glad I didn't drop this series because if I drop this series a long time ago than I probably wouldn't be very interesting in Kingdom Hearts 3. And I'm so glad I play all the games in the series because if I didn't play all the games than I would've been confused as hell and not knowing what the hell is going on in Kingdom Hearts 3. Since I play the all games I know the history, characters, and what leads up to Kingdom Hearts 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, to be honest, I just skimmed that junk after they started complaining about everything (No offense to the writer). 

Yeah, okay, KH is flawed: Does KH 2 retcon Sora's strength from Com and KH? Yup, a bit.

Did BBS make a lick of sense the first playthrough? Ha, no. 

Was Days trying too hard? Yeah.. 

 

But KH is still going to draw fans, despite flaws. No media exists that is perfect. 

 

The main draw for me, personally, wasn't ever really Sora or Riku or anybody in the cast (*GASP*), but the idea of running amok in Disney movies. More so in KH 1, where every damn thing in Wonderland changes stuff, and Halloween Town had six areas to get lost in. 

plots going haywire or not, I'm going to largely ignore it, go with the story as it gets delivered in each game (plot holes and retcons included) and keep at it. 

I'd only truly loose interest if the Disney aspect was dropped for full on Final Fantasy, or the main trio were dropped for all new characters. 

 

this got long... Sorry. 

Yeah exactly.One of the main reasons i'm excited for kh3 is being able to explore bigger,more detailed Disney world.The story at this point is whatever,kinda just going with the flow pretty much.

 

It's great they never thought about replacing the main cast as Sora is just one of those characters that makes going to Disney worlds even more enjoyable,can't say the same for the others.

Edited by GroovingOnUp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KH was amazing back in the day. Just think of how everything was when you played it at first! KH2 has been my favourite game for many years!

 

However, things change, and now KH is not what it used to be, at least for me, 358/2 days was the begining of the end (I love this game, it's what made me play KH, but I have to say this xD), just make everything more confusing from then onwards, introducing (at the time) unnecesary characters (c'mon! what was the point in making Xehanort not be Xehanort but rather a bald old man that then turns into Xehanort?), BBS, Coded and DDD have made the series go downhill from my point of view. KH2 should've been the end of KH, and maybe make 358/2 days to explain a bit better who Roxas is.

 

Just compare, KH1, CoM and KH2, they all had amazing stories (I know a lot of people don't really like CoM because of the gameplay, but still xD)! The following ones had also nice stories, but they're not on the same level, they were repetitive and boring at times, maybe DDD had the best story out of them (until Time Travel is mentioned -.-) or BBS (I found this one to be repetitive as heck though xD).

 

So basicaly, when I look back at the series, I see that it's a shame that an incredible series went downhill just to make it longer (it went downhill doesn't mean it's bad, but just not as good as it could've been), KH2 had a perfect ending, Sora has finaly reunited with his friends and saved the worlds! But no, they had to continue it including worthless characters like a puppet that no one remembered, a trio that no one knew, a Keyblade academy (like what? We were told there's a Keyblade chosen one and that's it! Not that you can go to the Land of Departure and get to use a Keyblade!), a bald man who then turned into who we know as Xemnas (was this really necesary before including BBS? It just gives us more questions! Like why couldn't Xemnas use the keyblade? Why did he have to rely on Sora/Roxas and the other keyblade wielders to create Kingdom Hearts?), Time Travel (RIP Kingdom Hearts), etc.

 

Yeah, I made this longer than what I expected, I just wanted to say that I used to love KH and now I don't like it anywhere near as much as before xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wrote a looooooooong thread about how I fell out of the series and how I don't like it anymore so I'm gonna link it here rather than repeating myself

 

http://kh13.com/forum/topic/92888-how-i-fell-out-of-the-kingdom-hearts-series-a-recap-of-my-personal-experience-with-the-franchise/

 

 

But yeah I agree with the guy who made the tumblr post

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay. tried to read it a bit, but in all honesty didn't read it all and you could get the issue since the intro of this wall of text.

 

as already stated above, we all know the games flows, the lack of certain explanations here and there, the gameplay issues of certain episodes and what not.

yet kh's story can still be enjoyed as a whole and is still to these days the main strengh of the series.

 

Here is a perfect example of someone who took it way too far and started digging in to the point of getting sick of it. Still stupid comparaison, but : I love berries like a lot. but if I spends days eating berries day in day out, eventually I'll get sick of it and only see the bad sides of it.

 

he points it at even. Kh is a magical, childish-like fantasy. Remove it by trying to lay it down on paper as simple hard true facts. there's no magic anymore and in the end you are left with what's wrong or not working if looked at this way.

 

KH is more about characters interactions, subtle or not, and their exageration, which talks to us, let us relate to them.

 

"Come now how many of you can honestly say you’d love or feel as attached to these people if there wasn’t some tragic or sad story and scenes to pull at your heartstrings?"

 

This has to be one of the most inaccurate part of the whole "rant". If you're not attached in the first place, you just don't care what can happen to them, be it tragic or not.

Of course story-wise it's the tragic plot that will trigger the most of emotions out of us, that's something cinema, books or any media figured out long ago.

 

Bottom line, yes there are flows, yes they are plot holes, but in the end it really doesn't matter as a whole, otherwise well it wouldn't have touch so many people. It is is as flawed as he states it is, then what makes people love it?

 

characters.relationships.intrigue.As much as we don't know things, it makes us talk about it, have fun with it, and its otherall world makes it easy to come up with crazy yet entertaining stuff.

 

And it is in the end just a game and a fantasy..while it's fun to speculate who's talking to sora when he dives in, do we REALLY care to have a definitive answer? is this that relevant to our enjoyment of the game?

when you start to question things that much, it's just time to let go, or you'll end up like this person ^^

 

Enjoy it for what it is, a game about friendship interactions, sometimes clear, sometimes not, jsut as friendship is

then again, it's stil so personal how everyone feels it and enjoy it.

Edited by sorakm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking back, the story is a contrived, convoluted, confusing pile of shit. It's like Nomura literally made it up while he was drunk and just doing it as he went along. But it's MY contrived, convoluted, confusing pile of shit, and I actually understand it now, having studied the story for so long, but even myself as a KH veteran and lore veteran, I still always find little things here and there where I think "What the firetruck even is that?" So you could say that's its silver lining, there's always something new popping into the picture to keep the story going. There's always a new theory or a new concept or a new question presented to the fanbase. And to that end, I love the story.

 

The games have continually innovated every single year of their release. Kingdom Hearts 1 introduced the entire concept. Chain of Memories and Re: Chain of Memories introduced the card battling system. Kingdom Hearts II improved significantly on Kingdom Hearts 1's gameplay and introduced Reaction Commands, Drive Forms and new worlds, lots of new things. Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days ehhh, well I guess it introduced and fleshed out the story of Roxas? Re: Coded um... Actually I don't know what Days and Re: Coded did because of how awful they are. Birth by Sleep introduced Shotlocks. Dream Drop introduced the Flowmotion system. And finally we arrive at 3, introducing the Attraction Flow system. I can't be bothered typing any more of what I think about KH retrospectively because I'd be here for hours but there ya go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

looking back i'd say the only games worth playing are KH1, CoM and KH2. that way you get a nice little packaged trilogy that doesn't try so hard to be grand and epic. 

 

i think SE really screwed the series in a way by putting each new game on a different system and still maintaining the idea that each game was important to the story. Looking back, BBS and DDD were the only games post-KH2 that were essential to understanding the story, going forward. Days and Re:Coded could have not existed and any important plot points that were in them could have been woven into the other games.

 

I guess all the extra games couldn't be helped. People wanted a KH3 and Nomura needed to make more games to establish a plot and justify KH3 even existing. it's a shame he went for the most convoluted method of doing so. he was sort of on the right track with BBS, by which i mean, all he had to do was set up Apprentice Xehanort as the main antagonist for KH3 and then we could have jumped straight to KH3 from there. it would've really trimmed the fat from the series and still made sense when looking at the overall story. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the series has grown immensely and has prospered well. I think the story has been enriched and has only gotten better and with HD2.8 yet to come out this year and KH3 most likely coming out next year, it has yet to reach its greatest potential.

Edited by KingdomHearts3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can sympathise with the person you quoted with a lot; I did appreciate the adventure feel to one and two were everything wasn't interconnected and how a sentence said by someone had little meaning then; but 10 years late have huge significance. However; every series develops and grows and I have enjoyed the series overall ( personally not a fan of Days; despite Roxas being one of my top 3 characters).

 

If I'm being open; the aspects I don't like is how everyone is gaining keyblades rapidly. I draw parallels to the Original trilogy in Star Wars; we didn't know much about the force ( no midichlorian rubbish!); we weren't swamped with Jedi/Sith and this was an element of wonder and mystery. The older entries in KH were like that; we knew of 5 keyblade wielders and that seemed ok. Now drawing parallels to the Prequel Trilogy in stories; an overload of new information; too many characters displaying the force; the mystery was lost. Whilst Kingdom Hearts hasn't lost that by any means; realistically we are looking at 20 keyblade wielders plus Young Eraqus; possibly the foretellers and even Xehanort's master, we have gone into overload sadly. I even liked the idea of the keyblade being reduced in number after the original keyblade war due to the fact it made us imagine what the past was like without having to witness it.

 

I by no means have an issue with the series; and I do wish it continues and grows in each new instalment; however I can sympathise that an element of mystery has been lost. I mean think back to old days of the series; who honestly would have considered and anticipated time travel being an element and an important element if that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I look back I see the amazingness of Kh1 COM and Kh2, and how I felt playing those games, and the "new era" just can't compete with that.  Even so, it is still not good, and seems to be a bunch of nonsense filler. I think Days was ok, and was hindered by the DS capabilities, but the rest of the stories feel like a shell of the former KH.

 

I just feel COM and 358 set up KH2 so nicely while being there own stories, while I feel BBS, and DDD just don't set up KH3 very well. I actually think Coded does a decent job, but no one gives it the respect.

Edited by Jermaine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do I feel? KH1 and KH2FM were the only 'replayable' games in the series for me, (in my opinion, replayable equates to amazing, I'd never replay a game unless I was in love with it and it had replay value or I strongly felt I didn't give it a fair chance the first time )

 

If you asked me a few months/weeks ago I'd tell you I loved BBS, but looking back now that opinion was solely because it was 'Kingdom Hearts'. The storyline was pretty average and the gameplay is unbalanced. Terra and Ventus (especially Ventus) are cringeworthy generic anime characters that make me want to hit them. Aqua was bearable but Xehanort and Vanitas and Braig were actually really interesting. 

 

Long video, but it's worth the wait.

 

 

Although 3D took away the magic and simplicity of the series completely, I did like it how it turned the story into something big. KH3D zoomed out and made us look at a big picture we never could imagine. I liked that, it turned a small plot into something pretty big. Even though Nomura just threw retcons and created plot holes left right and centre. 

 

However, I can't deny that it basically spat on KH1 and KH2 and has jeopardised the chances of KH3's story making sense. The flowmotion mechanic is broken and you can spam it to basically win the game. The hero I grew up with was also reduced to a moron who can't even remember what someone said to him 5 seconds ago. The time travel plot device is poorly explained and just thrown in out of nowhere, the concept of a nobody is now pointless since they can grow hearts (taking away what made them special in the first place) and Xehanort is Aizen's grandfather.

 

I'm not expecting KH3 to fix EVERYTHING because that's utterly ridiculous. I expect KH3 to fix the majority of the contradictions and questions we have. That being said, my expectations for this game are fairly low. These 2 great videos summarise my thoughts.

 

 

 

The series has become a flustercuck of time travelling shirtless black men with lightsabers and keys. This is kind of why I'm leaning towards Final Fantasy now, I've played nearly half of that series and so far I've loved every game, I can't say that about KH without overexaggerating.

 

The fan demand for KH3 is so high and the performance of the Osaka Team (they couldn't even port KH2FM to the PS3, yet when the Tokyo Team ported KH1FM to the PS3 it was basically a perfect port) so far is poor. I really hope that the FFXV team go back to help on KH3, the guy who did KH2's battle system worked on XV and I hope he moves over to KH3 soon. Otherwise I'm going to be worried. 

 

If I could ask Nomura one question it would be

"Are the XV team going to work on KH3 soon?"

just to assure myself this game is in safe hands. I have a feeling the story is not going to be that good but as long as the gameplay is KH2FM tier or above I'm not going to care an awful lot.

 

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited for KH3, I am excited to see if this game flops or not. If Nomura can direct 2 of Square Enix's magnum opi (KH1FM and KH2FM), I'm sure he can make another, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

Another thing, Ventus is a whiney brat with his head in his ass.(I think this may constitute as inappropriate but I'm not sure if it crosses the line, please change it if it does). His character, to me, is garbage. He's a Sora clone who cries all the time. He makes BBS so frustrating to play.

 

I could go on forever...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Please hide any Kingdom Hearts III spoilers inside a spoiler box using the button on the editor. For more information, check out our KH3 spoiler policy (in effect until March 31).
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...