Something That Makes No Sense To Me.

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

This is to do with time travel, you've been warned .

 

So, Ansem Seeker of Darkness in his brown cloak abandons his 'body' and goes back in time to Destiny Islands to give Young Xehanort the power to move forward in time (How Ansem got that power is another question in itself).

 

Young Xehanort moves forward in time, picks up various incarnations of Xehanort and brings them to the current time, Dream Drop Distance.

 

But at the end of the game, WE HEAR XEHANORT SPECIFICALLY SAY "We must all return whence we came" whilst all the seekers of darkness fade away. Skip to 18:50 on this video if you think I'm lying.

 

 

 

So in Kingdom Hearts 3, someone is going to have to time travel backwards again and leave their body behind, get a new body/vessel, magically gain the power to move forward in time and pick up everyone AGAIN.

 

Young Xehanort DOES fade back in the video I linked (19 minutes in). But he said that he'd end up losing his recollection of everything that happened...

 

Master Xehanort doesn't really fade away in the same fashion that the others do which could imply he's just gone somewhere else.

 

So yeah, time travel is going to have to come back in KH3 to bring back everyone again.

 

Bringing all the norts back in DDD for plot convenience was kind of pointless and has now convoluted things even further. The only ones that should've appeared are those that weren't products of time travel like Braig and Isa.

 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Shinobi Waffles

[Dustin Newton 60]

Yeah they should have waited to reveal the time travel, but now they don't have to waste time on explanation.  But it also wouldnt take much effort to even to explain how everyone was brought back again: whoever the 13th vessel is will most likely fulfill the role of gathering everyone. What they will have to explain however is how they're going to last more than a few days, when there's a time limit on how long they can stay out of their time

[Kaweebo 3,617]

 

Master Xehanort doesn't really fade away in the same fashion that the others do which could imply he's just gone somewhere else.

 

Yeah he does. He fades in the exact same manner, it just happens a little quicker for dramatic effect. Personally, I think that whole thing was just for show and Xehanort doesn't even have 13 darknesses yet. I don't even think MX is 'really' there. I think Young Xehanort brought Master Xehanort back through time travel to scare the good guys into forming 7 lights so that they're all taken care of and the REAL reformed Xehanort - Terranort - can begin gathering his true 13 darknesses, of which includes Braig, Isa and possibly even Marluxia. But the whole time-displaced versions of himself thing was just for show and it'll be completely different in KHIII.

 

The only other option is Nomura pulls something out of his butt to make the logistics make sense, like 'Oh, they all returned from whence they came but I also created digital versions of all my former selves and pulled them from the dataspace to help me in the real worlds! I'm so smart!' *finger movements* 'KEYBLADE!!!'

[Felixx 6,646]

First of Ansem SoD gaines the power of time traveling by leaving his body behind. That's why he can give that power to his younger version (also I think that only works cause they're practically the same person)And the plan was to make Sora the 13th vessel, that's why all other 12 gathered there in DDD. That plan failed so they all had to go back to their times.But you're right, someone has to collect them again in KH3, which is probably still YX's task.

[old 7]

Honestly time travel is such a poorly explained plot point I wouldn't even bother trying to make any sense of it. 

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

First of Ansem SoD gaines the power of time traveling by leaving his body behind. That's why he can give that power to his younger version (also I think that only works cause they're practically the same person)And the plan was to make Sora the 13th vessel, that's why all other 12 gathered there in DDD. That plan failed so they all had to go back to their times.But you're right, someone has to collect them again in KH3, which is probably still YX's task.

To make Sora the 13th vessel they needed 12 people? Seeing what Master Xehanort did to TAV, all he would really need is Isa and Braig since Sora and Riku weren't as strong as in KH2. 

[Felixx 6,646]

To make Sora the 13th vessel they needed 12 people? Seeing what Master Xehanort did to TAV, all he would really need is Isa and Braig since Sora and Riku weren't as strong as in KH2.

Sorry, I didn't word myself well. I meant if his plan had worked they would have got all 13 vessels. So they would have been ready for the final battle.At least that was the plan.

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

Sorry, I didn't word myself good. I meant if his plan had worked they would have got all 13 vessels. So they would have been ready for the final battle.At least that was the plan.

That wouldn't have worked anyway, since the guardians of light wouldn't have 7 people to fight. The GOL would have had to go and find Aqua and Ventus since Sora would be a seeker so there'd only be Yen Sid, Mickey, Riku, Lea and Kairi. That would have taken time and eventually they would have had to go back to their times. They'd run out of time.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Shinobi Waffles

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

Yeah he does. He fades in the exact same manner, it just happens a little quicker for dramatic effect. Personally, I think that whole thing was just for show and Xehanort doesn't even have 13 darknesses yet. I don't even think MX is 'really' there. I think Young Xehanort brought Master Xehanort back through time travel to scare the good guys into forming 7 lights so that they're all taken care of and the REAL reformed Xehanort - Terranort - can begin gathering his true 13 darknesses, of which includes Braig, Isa and possibly even Marluxia. But the whole time-displaced versions of himself thing was just for show and it'll be completely different in KHIII.

 

The only other option is Nomura pulls something out of his butt to make the logistics make sense, like 'Oh, they all returned from whence they came but I also created digital versions of all my former selves and pulled them from the dataspace to help me in the real worlds! I'm so smart!' *finger movements* 'KEYBLADE!!!'

That is the real MX because Yin Sid said that he will return since they killed Xemnas and Ansem. Plus, Xehanort says that he is the real thing.

(skip to 3:54:49)

That wouldn't have worked anyway, since the guardians of light wouldn't have 7 people to fight. The GOL would have had to go and find Aqua and Ventus since Sora would be a seeker so there'd only be Yen Sid, Mickey, Riku, Lea and Kairi. That would have taken time and eventually they would have had to go back to their times. They'd run out of time.

Then they would have taken the 7 princesses.

[Felixx 6,646]

That wouldn't have worked anyway, since the guardians of light wouldn't have 7 people to fight. The GOL would have had to go and find Aqua and Ventus since Sora would be a seeker so there'd only be Yen Sid, Mickey, Riku, Lea and Kairi. That would have taken time and eventually they would have had to go back to their times. They'd run out of time.

Yeah I just realized that I guess they thought the 7 GoL were ready too. (Just another retcon)

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

That is the real MX because Yin Sid said that he will return since they killed Xemnas and Ansem. Plus, Xehanort says that he is the real thing.

(skip to 3:54:49)

Then they would have taken the 7 princesses.

We don't know that for sure though, we can only assume. That's what annoys me about the writing of this game, the fans have had to write the story and fill in the gaps themselves because Nomura isn't a good enough writer to do it within the game.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

We don't know that for sure though, we can only assume. That's what annoys me about the writing of this game, the fans have had to write the story and fill in the gaps themselves because Nomura isn't a good enough writer to do it within the game.

No, Yin Sid says it. I made sure to remember that because it actually gives them a reason to fight in the war and shows that Xehanort has the upper hand. It also might have been a back up plan if Ven never came the the keyblade Graveyard and fused with Vanitas to forge the X-blade. Plus, it puts some importance on Kairi as well since she is both a princess and most likely one of the 7 Lights. Skip to 4:39:00 in the video I posted.

Yeah I just realized that I guess they thought the 7 GoL were ready too. (Just another retcon)

No, they would take the 7 princesses if they weren't.

[Kaweebo 3,617]

That is the real MX because Yin Sid said that he will return since they killed Xemnas and Ansem. Plus, Xehanort says that he is the real thing.

(skip to 3:54:49)

Yen Sid says that Master Xehanort will return since it's his heart that gets reformed, but the form he would take wouldn't be old MX, it would be Terranort. The only time they even call him Master in DDD is that exact part where Mickey exclaims that they 'were right about' him, which can easily be justified as Mickey just reacting to seeing the old Master return in the first place. As for Xehanort, of course he'd say he's the 'real thing', he's trying to convince the seven lights to join up, it's why he led Mickey to counting up their warriors

 

Well, for Keyblade wielders there's me and Riku...and my three missing friends...then that would mean the seventh would be...

 

He wanted Mickey to come to that conclusion and he presented his 'thirteen darknesses' in such a state as a show of force to convince them...but he leaves exactly the same way everyone else does. They all return to their respective times, including YX, Xigbar and Saix. None of them were really 'there'. Whether Xehanort presents himself as Master in KHIII remains to be seen, but it doesn't make sense for him to have left the same way everybody else did if he was fully in the present. They would have used the normal dark corridor animation they've been using everywhere else in the series, even in the same game. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Kaweebo

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

All Yen Sid says is that 'Xehanort' will return. The only time they even call him Master is that exact part where Mickey exclaims that they 'were right about' him, which can easily be justified as Mickey just reacting to seeing the old Master return in the first place. As for Xehanort, of course he'd say he's the 'real thing', he's trying to convince the seven lights to join up, it's why he led Mickey to counting up their warriors

 

 

 

 

He wanted Mickey to come to that conclusion and he presented his 'thirteen darknesses' in such a state as a show of force to convince them...but he leaves exactly the same way everyone else does. They all return to their respective times, including YX, Xigbar and Saix. None of them were really 'there'. Whether Xehanort presents himself as Master in KHIII remains to be seen, but it doesn't make sense for him to have left the same way everybody else did if he was fully in the present. They would have used the normal dark corridor animation they've been using everywhere else in the series, even in the same game. 

Xehanort says that "My twelve selves would welcome me on this day, when I would return a complete person." Yin sid, Xehanort, and Eraqus were colleagues or at least of the same rank, he doesn't have to call him "Master" and he has done this before along with Eraqus. I'm sure Sora and Riku won't use their titles either when talking with each other. Plus, if Xehanort didn't truly return as a real person in 3D then there would be no point of introducing that law so early or even at all since they have time travel.

 

Edit: Also the real master Xehanort would also need to be there so all the other Xehanorts could travel forward to that time.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Kingdomhe

[Kaweebo 3,617]

Xehanort says that "My twelve selves would welcome me on this day, when I would return a complete person." And Yin Sid, Xehanort, and Eraqus were colleagues or at least of the same rank, he doesn't have to call him "Master" and he has done this before along with Eraqus. I'm sure Sora and Riku won't use their titles either when talking with each other.

Look, I basically don't believe anything Xehanort says because his entire plan makes absolutely no sense if we're taking him at face value. My point is the entire scene is one giant ruse to convince Mickey and Riku to gather seven lights by giving the impression that he has thirteen darknesses when he barely has three. Of course he's going to say stuff like 'this was all foreseen' because he wants them to believe his threat. The Master Xehanort we see in DDD is a distraction who only looks like what Yen Sid and Mickey expect to see while the real reformed Xehanort is out there actually collecting thirteen darknesses. Every single person in that room does the same 'fade' animation, including Master Xehanort. I can't believe that's an oversight. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Kaweebo

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

Look, I basically don't believe anything Xehanort says because his entire plan makes absolutely no sense if we're taking him at face value. My point is the entire scene is one giant ruse to convince Mickey and Riku to gather seven lights by giving the impression that he has thirteen darknesses when he barely has three. Of course he's going to say stuff like 'this was all foreseen' because he wants them to believe his threat. The Master Xehanort we see in DDD is a distraction who only looks like what Yen Sid and Mickey expect to see while the real reformed Xehanort is out there actually collecting thirteen darknesses. Every single person in that room does the same 'fade' animation, including Master Xehanort. I can't believe that's an oversight. 

 Xehanorts plan is actually pretty solid, time travel, which we have seen work, allows him to have 13 darknesses but even if they were temporary, he could still collect them later. The 7 princesses forces everyone to fight and even if they don't he still wins, because it is true that the 7 princesses hold that power and Kairi is a double edged sword in that regard since she is a princess and might be a Light, so even if they decided to not fight, all xehanort would have to do is take 6 of the princesses and then target Kairi and there is no doubt that they would fight then or just skip all of that and just target Kairi first. Also the real master Xehanort would also need to be there so all the other Xehanorts could travel forward to that time and I would think that it would need to be some physical form of him.

[Kaweebo 3,617]

 Xehanorts plan is actually pretty solid, time travel, which we have seen work, allows him to have 13 darknesses but even if they were temporary, he could still collect them later. The 7 princesses forces everyone to fight and even if they don't he still wins, because it is true that the 7 princesses hold that power and Kairi is a double edged sword in that regard since she is a princess and might be a Light, so even if they decided to not fight, all xehanort would have to do is take 6 of the princesses and then target Kairi and there is no doubt that they would fight then or just skip all of that and just target Kairi first. Also the real master Xehanort would also need to be there so all the other Xehanorts could travel forward to that time and I would think that it would need to be some physical form of him.

The overall plan is solid, but I'm talking about that specific scene and the time travel. No, he shouldn't be able to collect them again. Not unless he gives up his body again and gets young Xehanort all over again which isn't what happens. At face value, he collected twelve versions of himself to form Organization XIII, with Sora being the thirteenth vessel; he explains all of this to Mickey and Riku to convince them to fight him, then when he doesn't get Sora because Lea interferes, he still isn't bothered by it for some reason, then says that they're all returning to their 'own time' with the same fading animation even though he's supposed to be the 'real' Xehanort and everybody else is supposed to make up his Organization...which they can't since they're all returning to the past. 

 

And again, as far as we know now, there is no way for him to reclaim those individuals unless he did something dumb like create them digitally. It simply doesn't make sense if we're taking what he says as literal. It can only make sense if it's a ruse and his Organization isn't actually complete yet, or else it wasn't present in that particular scene. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Kaweebo

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

The overall plan is solid, but I'm talking about that specific scene and the time travel. No, he shouldn't be able to collect them again. Not unless he gives up his body again and gets young Xehanort all over again which isn't what happens. At face value, he collected twelve versions of himself to form Organization XIII, with Sora being the thirteenth vessel; he explains all of this to Mickey and Riku to convince them to fight him, then when he doesn't get Sora because Lea interferes, he still isn't bothered by it for some reason, then says that they're all returning to their 'own time' with the same fading animation even though he's supposed to be the 'real' Xehanort and everybody else is supposed to make up his Organization...which they can't since they're all returning to the past. 

 

And again, as far as we know now, there is no way for him to reclaim those individuals unless he did something dumb like create them digitally. It simply doesn't make sense if we're taking what he says as literal. It can only make sense if it's a ruse and his Organization isn't actually complete yet, or else it wasn't present in that particular scene. 

By collect I meant like what he did with Sora, Terra, and most likely Brig, by putting his own heart into them somewhat manually. It could be anybody as long as they were strong enough to him. 

[ReverofE 698]

What I don't understand is why do 12 black coats show up after Xigbar shoots the ground? Skip to 5:26.

 

 

If you count Xigbar that's 13 members right there. Which means:

 

• [*]Why did they need Sora to be the 13th vessel? [*]HOW could there be 13 if MX hasn't returned yet? [*]Was Terra in that room? If so why didn't he return the same time MX did?
  

Maybe it's all just a miscount/error.

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Hmm, you have a point!  It seems that Young Xehanort would have to gather all the other versions of Xehanort once again for Kingdom Hearts III!  Although it could be as Kaweebo says, and this could all just be a facade to spook the Keyblade Wielders into forming the Guardians Of Light, therefore making them literal chess pieces that come into the board!

 

But well, in my opinion though, I'm just assuming Young Xehanort will did what he did in Dream Drop Distance, and when he encounters the Lights again, he won't recognize them, but he'll probably know who they are since Xehanort will probably tell him beforehand.  I dunno, we'll have to wait and see what happens!

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

What I don't understand is why do 12 black coats show up after Xigbar shoots the ground? Skip to 5:26.

 

 

If you count Xigbar that's 13 members right there. Which means:

 

[*]Why did they need Sora to be the 13th vessel?

[*]HOW could there be 13 if MX hasn't returned yet?

[*]Was Terra in that room? If so why didn't he return the same time MX did?

Maybe it's all just a miscount/error.

I never thought of that before...

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

What I don't understand is why do 12 black coats show up after Xigbar shoots the ground? Skip to 5:26.

 

 

If you count Xigbar that's 13 members right there. Which means:

 

[*]Why did they need Sora to be the 13th vessel?

[*]HOW could there be 13 if MX hasn't returned yet?

[*]Was Terra in that room? If so why didn't he return the same time MX did?

Maybe it's all just a miscount/error.

I think the hooded figures that surrounded Sora were merely illusions just to mess with him. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Master Eraqus

[ReverofE 698]

I think the hooded figures that surrounded Sora were merely illusions just to mess with him. 

 

If they were illusions then it wouldn't be too far-fetched to believe that most of the members we see in the white room could also be illusions INCLUDING MX himself.

 

Combine this with YX having to redo the time travel for KH3 & it makes it all look like an elaborate ruse by MX.

 

He is basically baiting Mickey to gather the 7 Lights (which he was already doing but still).

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

If they were illusions then it wouldn't be too far-fetched to believe that most of the members we see in the white room could also be illusions INCLUDING MX himself.

 

Combine this with YX having to redo the time travel for KH3 & it makes it all look like an elaborate ruse by MX.

 

He is basically baiting Mickey to gather the 7 Lights (which he was already doing but still).

I'm talking about the hooded figures that surrounded Sora in this cutscene at 3:16:

 

[ReverofE 698]

I'm talking about the hooded figures that surrounded Sora in this cutscene at 3:16:

 

 

Um yeah I already knew that you were referring to that scene.

 

What I was saying was that if there were Organization illusions here then it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think that the ones in the Organization sitting room could also be illusions...