Hey guys I'm Charles but I go by KeyToDestiny on Deviantart and KhInsider(had an account there years ago but I forgot the password #fml) so I wanted to kinda talk about a little theory of mine that I'm sure others have come up with as well and the subject's probably been beaten to death at this point but just wanted to share a little theory.


Nomura has said the Seekers are all "seated properly" which had me confused for the longest time but.... something sort of clicked



Like remember how the old Org 13 were all seated from when they first joined and all? The new Org 13's seating order could work in a somewhat similar way but more like when the first got Norted instead. Why else would Saix still be seated as No. 7 in the new group? So we have the main Xehanorts(Master Xehanort, Xemnas and Ansem) take up the first 3 seats and since MX is now taking Xemnas' seat, Xemnas' rank went down to No. 2 and now takes Xigbar's seat who know takes No. 4 which is Vexen's old seat(eliminating his chances of being in the group) And Braig/Xigbar's seat in the new group fits perfectly as well. If proved otherwise, he was the first vessel who was seeded by Xehanort dating way back in BBS as Braig and has been working with Xehanort for years so him getting No. 4 makes sense. 

Now who could be No.5 and No. 6? Well who was norted right after Braig in BBS? Terra. And didn't MX go on and on about Terra being made into a vessel for him and him belonging to him(It wasn't confirmed but was certainly implied. 


No. 6? Well when Terra was first possessed by Xehanort, Nomura mentioned some time ago that Xehanort left "something behind" and that something wasn't a Heartless. Whatever that "something" is could be what Xehanort had planned to being one of his vessels as a bonus with getting Terra as well. I know it's a long stretch since Nomura's one to retcon and forget stuff(if DDD was any indication) but it would be a perfect excuse to just throw someone in there 

I always wondered why Saix/Isa's rank didn't change and if this theory is correct(which it probably won't) then it would make sense for Saix to stay where he is. We don't know when, but it's implied that Xehanort(or Xemnas) somehow norted Isa/Saix right before the destruction of Radiant Garden or once Isa began his new life as Saix. Xehanort had amnesia(or could have been feigning some of it) from the end of BBS to the destruction of Radiant Garden and his separation into Ansem and Xemnas so.... I don't think he'd have norted anyone else during that time or even remembered to do so unless Braig told him some things. 

So now that we got No.4-7 down, where does that leave No. 8-11? Honestly that's where I'm stumped at the moment. No. 12 is Young Xehanort and why he's No. 12 is not only is he the "youngest Xehanort" but he's literally the guy who acts as the "portal" to get everyone together. Basically it's a scenario of "letting everyone take a seat at dinner before you take your own seat." and that's basically what happened. When Riku went to their headquarters to save Sora, YX basically got everyone together to symbolize the formation of the new group and they all took up their seats before YX finally got to take his own as 12, which would technically be the official time he joins.

No. 13 is still up for grabs, but I'm assuming it's Vantias because 1. Yellow eyes and close connection to Xehanort along with 4 years with Xehanort means he had to have been Norted back then.Why he's not in the group yet is because presently he doesn't have a body. Yes I know YX could easily pick him up through time travel like he did with Xemnas and Ansem but.. for some reason, he didn't or else that scene at La Cite Des Cloches with him and YX wouldn't have happened. Nomura pretty much said that scene was just to show Ven's heart was starting to react within Sora which is why he saw Vanitas in the first place... but at the same time, that scene could just be a foreshadowing for Vantias' return in KH3 when Ven wakes up since I have a feeling when he's active again, so will Vantias in a way and he may even regain his body which then MX would obviously take him so he could join the new group since... he was the original choice for a Darkness to create the X-blade in the first place. I don't see why MX would toss away a valuable asset to his plans for the X-blade. 


So with that, this is my speculation for the seats of the new Org 13 for the time being. 

1. Master Xehanort 
2. Xemnas 
3. Ansem 
4. Xigbar/Braig
5. Terra
6. Whatever the hell MX left behind 
7. Saix/Isa 
8-11. Unknown for now 
12. Young Xehanort 
13. Vanitas.

If the 2.5 Secret Ending really does imply Braig/Xigbar being separate along with Saix/Isa then my theory could be thrown off a good chunk. Well feel free to comment on it. Hope it makes some sense! 

I don't think any of them can be from the future.  I think I recall YMX can only move forward in time.  So if he jumped forward he can't go back unless it's to go back to his own time without his memories.  And I don't think any of them are going to be random characters.

 

Considering YMX is seated in Larxene's seat, I find her to be unlikely.  The logic with Saix might work from Marluxia, but with Saix there was time to actually turn him away from his plans and make him loyal while Marluxia was destroyed in the process of trying to throw a coup and at no point was loyal at all.  I find Luxord and Demyx a lot more possible.  Although Marluxia did seem to be pretty power obsessed... that seemed to work with making Terra one.

The seats dont matter, and I think you got the order messed up anyway.  evens to numbre1's left hand and odds to num1's right hand, in descending order. They could easily occupy different seats just like Xigbar.

 

Saix wasn't loyal in the end, he only sought KH and knew xemnas had other plans. He wasn't loyal ever, he only saw his own goals. I see Larxene and Marulxia has both having the same mindsets.

 

Anyways, if there isn't adleast one girlnort to break up the sausagefest, I'm officially declaring Nomura adleast bicurious. Comeon, even Xehanort wants to feel what it's like to have boobs! At least once!!

Edited April 6, 201510 yr by Ninkoro

Well, I definitely find this theory plausible. It's so interesting, but if we stop to think about it, Terra could be saved by his friends, (assuming Ven wakes up after they find Aqua) and that could mean that Terra's spot could be open to someone else, and if we stop to think about THAT being a possibility, then who would take his place? Well if we look at how 'Terranort' was turned into a heartless, along with the creation of Xemnas, we would soon realize that Ansem looks a lot more like MX, and Xemnas looks like Terra without a haircut for about 10 years...doesn't that strike a bit odd to you? 

 

If Xehanort left something behind, what could it be? HIS actual nobody? Lets see.... Xehanort's heart was taken by a heartless which formed Ansem, but the body was Terra who made Xemnas, does that mean Terra could have a heartless that could take No. 5, and Xehanort's Special Nobody that he "left behind" could take No. 6.

 

I found this to support a few things in this theory. It could easily open Terra to join The Guardians of Light, and if I understand right, (considering Vanitas's return when Ven wakes up) that would fill out a new list.

 

1: Master Xehanort

2: Xemnas

3: Ansem

4: Braig/Xigbar

5: Terra's Heartless

6: Xehanort's "left behind" Nobody

7: Siax/Isa

8-11: Unknown

12: Young Xehanort

13: Vanitas

 

I definitely think we're on to something here!  :blink:

Well, the Seekers of Darkness will be complete in the beginning of KH3, but won't stay that way for long. Terra will likely regain himself after a good number of the lower-ranking members have been eliminated.  Though while the Xehanort's "true" Nobody theory is possible I feel I should say this: Apprentice Xehanort's heart wasn't so much taken by a heartless as it was abandoned willingly. Basically he turned himself into Heartless and as we know, a persons heart stays within their heartless, consumed by it's own darkness.

 

 

The seating "height" IS determined by how many missions the person has accomplished, yes. But...something just doesn't add up...the seats themselves are reserved for specific members....

 

 

 

.......Mmmm.....

 

Ahh, actually you, me AND Charles could both be wrong...and Nomura is winking his eyes at us because of his slyness...

 

 

Allow me to quote the KHWiki's Organization XIII page, referencing the Inner Workings page...I think you'll find what I'm thinking about interesting... 

 

Inner Workings

Once fully inducted, the new members are introduced to the other members at Where Nothing Gathers, the meeting chamber of the Organization deep within their home base of the Castle That Never Was. The room contains thirteen thrones, one for each member, whose height is adjustable but depends on their respective member's success in completing missions. Despite this, Xemnas's throne always remains the highest. To his left are the odd-number ranked members while to his right are the even-numbered. Starting from Xemnas, clockwise, the members are Xaldin, Lexaeus, Saïx, Demyx, Marluxia, and Roxas, then Larxene, Luxord, Axel, Zexion, Vexen and Xigbar.

 

 

After being renamed, each member is given a uniform and a rank from I to XIII. The rank is based on seniority, and although the leader of the Organization, Xemnas, is also the rank I member, the ranks are not true measures of authority within the Organization. For example, the rank IV Vexen, a founding member of the Organization, is subordinate to the rank XI Marluxia, while the rank VII Saïx acts as Xemnas's second-in-command, right before the rank II Xigbar. Their uniform, a hooded black coat, was chosen because it was something once worn by Master Xehanort, Xemnas's primary original persona, to safeguard him from the darkness between worlds while not cutting him off from it.

 

So...what the........hell?

The new organization probably doesn't follow the mission part, as their one common goal is to create Kingdom Hearts. So it can't JUST be based on completing missions. And it certainly can't be coincidental because they can change their heights...it wouldn't be "Organized" in that regard. I think and honestly believe at this point, is that the new organization is based possibly on age. Unlike Seniority, which IS based on the time of joining, AGE is totally different...

 

Think about it. ...Xehanort is #1, and he's the oldest. Xemnas and Ansem become 2nd and 3rd in command because they are technically HIS darkness, and Xemnas may have Terra's body, but he has Xehanort's darkness from the get go, and almost seems like they would take #2 and #3 anyway BECAUSE of their direct ties to Xehanort. Braig would stay where he is because he's aged since BbS. And Terra's Heartless (assuming it traits directly to Terra) as well as Xehanort's "other Nobody" (considering the fact to have Xehanort's body) but Terra's recovering heart counters this, meaning they would stay put as well!!! Isa would say put too, because he is definitely younger than Terra in BbS. That would leave the 4 unknown individuals to speculate on. What we have to go by is that the age rule still applies...because Young Xehanort took on the form of his youth, meaning that he would be about a little bit older than Sora in this regard, which would make sense that they were trying to possess him...

 

 

Huh...now THAT is making me think..! What if they were just trying to possess Sora because he looked like Vanitas in the first place? Like Charles said, Young Xehanort probably can't recruit Vanitas yet because he has no body...

 

WHAT IF...that they were trying to drown Sora in darkness so they could make a NEW Vanitas AS Sora?! 

 

Now that would be a long shot on my part considering Xehanort was just about to PLANT his heart into Sora, but knowing Xehanort he has so many backup plans to take...if Ven were to wake up, Vanitas' will be relivable *possibly* there at THAT time, which could be a revival opportunity for Young Xehanort to grab Vanitas way back from BbS to join the ranks. 

 

 

Call me crazy, but I think that we found something interesting... but this is only getting more mysterious at this point... :wacko: Even I could be wrong too...

 

Maybe the height this time is based on how much of Xehanort they have in them? IIRC, Nomura said that Xehanort's heart, once implanted, will slowly eat away at the original until there's nothing left, like a parasite.

 

IIRC Vanitas' eyes were originally red when he was first born or atleast that's what the BBS novels said(I know novels aren't really canon but apparently some events there do end up being canon if the KH2 FM scene with Xiggy and Zexy was any indicator) Plus it's just strange. Riku when he was basically at the edge of complete darkness in KH1, his eyes remained the same along with others who have had their eyes close to the darkness at some point. The ones who's eyes turn yellow/gold(Braig, Terra and Isa) along with with having darkness invade their body were all explained to have a seed of MX inside them. Vantias(if the novels are correct) pretty much fall into the same category plus he was with alone training with Xehanort for four years. i wouldn't put it past MX to place a piece of his heart inside Vantias just like Sora did for Ventus.

 

Even with all that, I still don't think he's presently one of the members atm. I know we got that whole scene with YX but Nomura's interview about Vanitas not having a body but being sort of "alive" in a sense sort of supports it. I would think that's just a foreshadowing for his revival in KH3 when Ventus wakes up, then he'd join the group as it's 13th member. I couldn't see anybody more fitting than him and it saves us the trouble of having more unnecessary new characters appear out of nowhere. If he was there, we'd have seen him when the Org 13 met up in the TWTNW or been mentioned. He's around but for some reason, wasn't collected from the past like Ansem and Xemnas was. It would have been easy for YX to do so unless Vanitas' situation is a bit more complicated than we thought.

 

 

@Keysmith Wow man I never really thought of it like that though. Nice theory THOUGH it sort of sounds similar to the my theory on the group being chosen from when Xehanort first seeded them. Well except YX. That was pretty elaborate actually but has more meat on it than my theory on why he's 12th

I think I have an idea of why Vanitas couldn't be brought to the future in 3D. Rule number 2: There must be a version of yourself waiting at your destination. There currently is no version of Vanitas as whatever is left of his heart lies dormant within Vens heart which is inside

Sora.

 

I thought Nomura said that the seats could change heights whenever the Org. members wanted? So there's no specific height order?

He's not really talking about height, he's talking about joining order. Basically, the closer your seat is to the "head of the table" as it where, the longer you've been a member.

Edited April 8, 201510 yr by Isamu_Kuno