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Ventus, Sora, Namine, and Terranort - Deep Questions

Posted

1.) When Ventus' heart leaves his body, and enters Sora's, after the Chi Blade is destroyed, the state of existence of his body is perplexing. His body is separated from his heart, but would still retain his soul, so for all practical purposes, this being would then be Ventus' Nobody, awaiting the return of his mended heart from Sora. But obviously Ventus simply became comatose and hence could not use his will in order to act out any intentions which a Nobody normally would. Thus, I am made to ponder whether his body's existence is like that of the body of a Princess of Heart/Light after losing its heart. For example, when Kiari's heart left her body and went into Sora's, her body did not become a Nobody because she did not become a heartless, due to her having no darkness in her heart. As such, when Ventus' heart was ripped from his body, it was currently incomplete, as Vanitas, Ventus' manifestation of darkness, was not yet returned to Ventus' heart, and so at the time Ventus was for all practical purposes a "Prince of Heart/Light," and then no heartless could be formed and his body would simply be comatose as Kiari's had been. Sora's heart is now in the process of mending Ventus' heart with Vanitas. I now know that Nobodies can grow hearts of their own over time, if they are nurtured, but am I right to assume that Kiari's body would not have grown another heart, and thus Ventus' body will never grow another heart?

 

2.) When Sora releases his heart, Kiari's whole healthy heart is able to return to her body, but Ventus' broken heart is too weak to leave Sora's body, and so stays in it, causing Sora's Nobody, Roxas, to actually be Sora's body and soul with Ventus' heart. Sora's heart then becomes a heartless, but he still retains his memories because of the strength of his heart, similar to Ansem-SOD. However, when Kiari hugs Sora's heartless, it takes on the appearance of Sora's lost body. This means that between the time of Kiari hugging him in Hallow Bastion to him being woken up in Twilight town, he was not actually "Sora," for he did not have his soul or body. This means that Sora was some how the inverse of a heartless, a "Heartful" for all practical purposes, likely somehow caused by his contact with a Princess of Heart/Light. The heart is what contains memories and emotions, and so when Sora enters Castle Oblivion, the Organization uses Namine to take apart Sora's memories, thus taking away pieces of his heart. They then insert these memories into Roxas, whom thus then carries pieces of Sora's heart. Hence, when Namine puts Sora to sleep for a year, and Riku subdues Roxas in order to take him to Sora to recomplete Sora, really what is happening is Riku is recompleting Roxas by bringing him to the last part of Sora's heart which Namine has sleeping. Once Roxas becomes complete again, turning back into the actual, complete Sora, Sora wakes up (though technically this should not have happened since Roxas should have just transformed into Sora - nothing should have been left inside the  sleep-capsule Namine had enclosed "Sora" within.) As mentioned already, Nobodies can eventually grow their own hearts, and so Roxas, with his connection to pieces of Sora's heart and the broken heart of Ventus, thus having an understanding of how to care for a heart, grew his own. This heart then became a part of the recomplete Sora. It wasn't until Sora's and Roxas' hearts dueled withing Sora's body that Roxas accepted his place and merged completely with Sora's, allowing Sora to remember Roxas' experiences as a Nobody and his connection with Namine. Kiari's pseudo-Nobody. Terranort used a keyblade to unlock his heart, which then became a heartless, Ansem SOD, which had a humanly form with his memories. This heartless, Ansem SOD, presumably unable to weild a keyblade, then possessed Riku, whom was a keyblade weilder through Terra's initiation ceremony. This then allowed Ansem SOD to call forth his keyblade which has the power to unlock hearts, just as it had unlocked Terranort's heart, and just like it had unlocked Vanitas from Ventus' heart. Sora then used this keyblade to unlock his own heart. Is this how Sora was able to keep his humanly appearance without his body? Maybe Ansem SOD started out as a mere shadow heartless too and slowly formed into his final form, and perhaps Sora's heartless' maturation into Sora's image was sped up and inversed by contact with Kiari?

 

3.) Namine is somehow a Nobody formed from Kiari, Sora, and Ventus. She has Kiari's gender, Ventus' hair, and control of Sora's heart. Is this a direct metaphor, showing how both Kiari and Ventus had a stake in Sora's wellbeing at the time when Sora became a heartless? Namine was born in Castle Oblivion, where Ventus is currently sleeping. Was Sora's body essentially split in half to accommodate Kiari's released heart's necessity to have a counterpart Nobody? If this is true, then as Ventus is currently essentially a "Prince of Heart/Light," then the same could be true of his heart's necessity to have a counterpart Nobody, and thus Sora's body was slit apart into Roxas and Namine, Roxas being the Nobody of Sora's heart, and Namine being a combination Nobody of both Ventus' and Kiair's hearts, leading to her appearance as a cross-product of the two. However, Namine was only created after Sora "undid" himself in Hallow Bastion, not when Kiari or Ventus lost their hearts from their bodies, reinforcing the concept that they themselves could not form Nobodies due to the nature of their hearts having no darkness at the time.

 

4.) When Xehanort releases his heart from his aging body to possess Terra's, does his body simply die from old age or does it become a Nobody? If it became a Nobody, whatever happened to it?

Featured Replies

1) Yes it would seem that the body requires memories to grow a heart.2)No, Ansem SoD never had a form at all until he possessed Riku, he was just disembodied Darkness, a Heartless with no form under a cloak. Kairi may have used her abundance of Light to allow Sora's Heartless to take on a human form without a body making him, not a Heartless, human or Nobody, but something else entirely.3) Pretty much, Namine certainly is Kairi's nobody but used Sora's body as a medium. They say "The heart forms the vessel" perhaps, like you say, her form was influenced by both Kairi's and Ventus' hearts leaving Sora's body.4) If you look at the way the body vanishes, it was just like Sora's when he removed his heart, He must have a Nobody out there somewhere, as must Eraqus. Perhaps this Nobody is one of the unknown members on the new Organization XIII?

I can only answer Question 4:

 

Xehanort's old man body did, in fact, become a Nobody- but many refer to it as 'Pence'

you meant his one 

Posted Image

1.) When Ventus' heart leaves his body, and enters Sora's, after the Chi Blade is destroyed, the state of existence of his body is perplexing. His body is separated from his heart, but would still retain his soul, so for all practical purposes, this being would then be Ventus' Nobody, awaiting the return of his mended heart from Sora. But obviously Ventus simply became comatose and hence could not use his will in order to act out any intentions which a Nobody normally would. Thus, I am made to ponder whether his body's existence is like that of the body of a Princess of Heart/Light after losing its heart. For example, when Kiari's heart left her body and went into Sora's, her body did not become a Nobody because she did not become a heartless, due to her having no darkness in her heart. As such, when Ventus' heart was ripped from his body, it was currently incomplete, as Vanitas, Ventus' manifestation of darkness, was not yet returned to Ventus' heart, and so at the time Ventus was for all practical purposes a "Prince of Heart/Light," and then no heartless could be formed and his body would simply be comatose as Kiari's had been. Sora's heart is now in the process of mending Ventus' heart with Vanitas. I now know that Nobodies can grow hearts of their own over time, if they are nurtured, but am I right to assume that Kiari's body would not have grown another heart, and thus Ventus' body will never grow another heart?

 

2.) When Sora releases his heart, Kiari's whole healthy heart is able to return to her body, but Ventus' broken heart is too weak to leave Sora's body, and so stays in it, causing Sora's Nobody, Roxas, to actually be Sora's body and soul with Ventus' heart. Sora's heart then becomes a heartless, but he still retains his memories because of the strength of his heart, similar to Ansem-SOD. However, when Kiari hugs Sora's heartless, it takes on the appearance of Sora's lost body. This means that between the time of Kiari hugging him in Hallow Bastion to him being woken up in Twilight town, he was not actually "Sora," for he did not have his soul or body. This means that Sora was some how the inverse of a heartless, a "Heartful" for all practical purposes, likely somehow caused by his contact with a Princess of Heart/Light. The heart is what contains memories and emotions, and so when Sora enters Castle Oblivion, the Organization uses Namine to take apart Sora's memories, thus taking away pieces of his heart. They then insert these memories into Roxas, whom thus then carries pieces of Sora's heart. Hence, when Namine puts Sora to sleep for a year, and Riku subdues Roxas in order to take him to Sora to recomplete Sora, really what is happening is Riku is recompleting Roxas by bringing him to the last part of Sora's heart which Namine has sleeping. Once Roxas becomes complete again, turning back into the actual, complete Sora, Sora wakes up (though technically this should not have happened since Roxas should have just transformed into Sora - nothing should have been left inside the  sleep-capsule Namine had enclosed "Sora" within.) As mentioned already, Nobodies can eventually grow their own hearts, and so Roxas, with his connection to pieces of Sora's heart and the broken heart of Ventus, thus having an understanding of how to care for a heart, grew his own. This heart then became a part of the recomplete Sora. It wasn't until Sora's and Roxas' hearts dueled withing Sora's body that Roxas accepted his place and merged completely with Sora's, allowing Sora to remember Roxas' experiences as a Nobody and his connection with Namine. Kiari's pseudo-Nobody. Terranort used a keyblade to unlock his heart, which then became a heartless, Ansem SOD, which had a humanly form with his memories. This heartless, Ansem SOD, presumably unable to weild a keyblade, then possessed Riku, whom was a keyblade weilder through Terra's initiation ceremony. This then allowed Ansem SOD to call forth his keyblade which has the power to unlock hearts, just as it had unlocked Terranort's heart, and just like it had unlocked Vanitas from Ventus' heart. Sora then used this keyblade to unlock his own heart. Is this how Sora was able to keep his humanly appearance without his body? Maybe Ansem SOD started out as a mere shadow heartless too and slowly formed into his final form, and perhaps Sora's heartless' maturation into Sora's image was sped up and inversed by contact with Kiari?

 

3.) Namine is somehow a Nobody formed from Kiari, Sora, and Ventus. She has Kiari's gender, Ventus' hair, and control of Sora's heart. Is this a direct metaphor, showing how both Kiari and Ventus had a stake in Sora's wellbeing at the time when Sora became a heartless? Namine was born in Castle Oblivion, where Ventus is currently sleeping. Was Sora's body essentially split in half to accommodate Kiari's released heart's necessity to have a counterpart Nobody? If this is true, then as Ventus is currently essentially a "Prince of Heart/Light," then the same could be true of his heart's necessity to have a counterpart Nobody, and thus Sora's body was slit apart into Roxas and Namine, Roxas being the Nobody of Sora's heart, and Namine being a combination Nobody of both Ventus' and Kiair's hearts, leading to her appearance as a cross-product of the two. However, Namine was only created after Sora "undid" himself in Hallow Bastion, not when Kiari or Ventus lost their hearts from their bodies, reinforcing the concept that they themselves could not form Nobodies due to the nature of their hearts having no darkness at the time.

 

4.) When Xehanort releases his heart from his aging body to possess Terra's, does his body simply die from old age or does it become a Nobody? If it became a Nobody, whatever happened to it?

Kairi and Ven hav eone thing in common. Their hearts are both made of pure light. So if they lose their hearts, then their bodies don't fade or become nobodies because there is no darkness to take over. Remember that a nobody is created when darkness takes over a strong person's heart or when somebody strong loses their heart. And since Kairi and Ven have no darkness in their hearts, it's physically impossible for them to create hearts on their own. This then leads to your issue and question about Kairi and Namine. Namine is a product of Kairi's body and heart with a little bit of Sora's darkness. It's only theory that she has any direct relations to Ven, so other than your statement about the two having blonde hair it's all just speculation that hasn't been confirmed. Since in KH1, Sora had a chunk of Kairi's heart within him because he was guarding it, then it had some contact with his darkness. I'm am not altogether sure if Namine is a result of Kairi's heart mixing with Sora's darkness and body or if she is a mixture of Kairi's heart and body and Sora's darkness. But it's either one or the other. So you could technically say that Namine is Kairi AND Sora's nobody. As weird as that sounds.

 

And your idea about Sora's revival just "taking on the appearance of his lost body"...well i'd like to make a counter towards that. Because of LOL NOMURA LOGIC, Sora was able to reclaim his body without destroying Roxas. Don't ask me why, it's because Sora's heart is all lovey dovey about friendship and that he can see the good in everyone blahblahblah. And crazy Nomura Logic. Not to mention that a PoH hugged him. So i guess the reason that Roxas and Sora can coexist despite that they both share the same body-ish is probably the same reason Kairi and Namine can coexist. 

 

I remember a conversation/argument i had with one person on the forum a little while back. And your statement somewhat ties into this. You seem to have a misconception about the connections between Memories and hearts. Memories are not hearts. Neither are they chunks of the heart itself. It is true that you have to have memories to have a heart, but memories are the things that MAKE  heart. As Nomura once said, memories rub together to make a spark. And that spark grows to become emotion. And emotion is a result of the birth of a heart. 

 

And as said in DDD, Roxas deserves to be his own person. Other than the whole nobody connection thing, Roxas doesn't have any relation to Sora whatsoever. So Roxas, who made his own heart, is residing within Sora. (along with Xion and Ven) Roxas didn't turn into Sora and then merge into him. And a reminder of you, what you said about Roxas' and Sora's duel in KH2...what you said the result was is true. Roxas did finally accept his fate and fully merge into Sora. But Sora didn't see any of Roxas' memories until DDD when the "dream Roxas" showed Sora his memories.

 

and a reply to your fourth question. I see that you have a point there. But i have to lay something down. The moment that someone loses their heart doesn't mean that their body turns into a nobody. Only special people, people that have strong hearts have nobodies. But Xehanort did have a strong heart since he had a keyblade and whatnot. I just wanted to remind you. My true answer to your question is this: Notice that Xehanort never gave birth into a heartless either. His heart was immediately transferred into Terra's body, and in BBS you would see Xehanort's body vanish. What happened to his body is the same thing that happens when you kill a nobody. It just vanishes. But the body never really is gone forever. It just hovers around waiting for the heart to recombine with it so it can become a person again. And since his heart went into Terra, his body doesn't have a chance with recombining with his heart. Not even a heartless was created to destroy. 

 

But here's a little extra. The whole Ansem SoD thing was a result of Terranort losing his heart at one point in Radiant Garden. no, he did NOT lose his heart with the battle with aqua, but because of some incident that happened during his experimentation with the heart with his Teacher, Ansem the Wise. Thus Ansem SoD and Xemnas were born. It was only when Sora destroyed both when the essence of Xehanort's true body and heart rejoined to give birth to Xehanort once more in DDD.

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