Rob base

O.O well I did watch them but I did not pick up on that... So even though he started off with Ven's heart he cut the cord and now is his own person? Okay, with that knowledge they are as of now two entirely different people, though this wasn't the case at first. God I love how complicated this crap is .

What is giving me a headache is that we are almost on the same page, but our terminology is different. Its an arguement in semantics, like looking at two different translations of the same text. Now this idea that Roxas developed his own seperate heart is new too me, do you have a vid or something showing that?

Well clearly we would not want them copying movesets from other games, I'm referring to how badass she could become, the vid from dead fantasy was just an example. And Yes like EVERYONE is pointing out its Namine, even though they are technically the same person I can't see why Namine couldn't be Kairis Drive form or something like that. She gets the Namine gauge up and then turns into her for a few minutes, kicks some ass and goes back to Kairi. And given she is a princess of heart and a keyblade weilder I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that she could get that tough.

*face desk* omfg... you are giving me a headache. I'm saying the same thing! They are two different personalities, to different "personas" with two different sets of memories but they have the same heart. The heart that was Ven's first and then Roxas. One heart, two people. But I'm saying that because that's Ven's heart, that means that Roxas CAME from ven even though he has an entirely different set of memories and personality. I'm not saying they are the same person in terms of Memories and Personality, but they both have the same exact heart.

If you had lost all your memories would that mean you were not you anymore? Its the heart that is the important component here and Ven's heart was controlling Sora's nobody thus giving him his appearance. His PERSONA, who he was, his memories were not there but his heart was. Roxas and Ventus are different personas stemming from the same heart, same for Vanitas (though that's an even more complicated mess) As for your point about other hearts being inside Sora, that's a different issue all together (this shiz needs its own thread though)

how does having vens heart not make him ven though? A body does not a persona make, its the heart. Ven's heart is there without his memories making Roxas Ven EVEN though its Sora's body If you were in a different body you would still be you, like how Xehanort is in a bunch of different bodies. The difference is is that Ven's persona was a clean slate from being an amnesiac and thus developed a new one on 358/2 days.

let me clarify cause you missed the MINUS sign We...are actually pretty much on the same page Its Sora's nobody, with Ven's heart MINUS memories

We...are actually pretty much on the same page Its Sora's nobody, with Ven's heart - memories

Sora split himself into heartless and nobody Sora's persona was rebooted before it was sent to his nobody and thus stayed with his heartless the next heart down the line was ventus (cause Sora has a freaking apartment complex in there), who was an amnesiac, and that is the one who became the nobody of sora instead. A La Roxas.

Roxas is a bit different considering he was originally ventus but then was integrated into Sora. It doesn't take away the fact they are two different characters but they are the same person...if that makes sense.

One: They are the same person, just different personas Two: They neglected her character so long she would HAVE to be that strong to make her playable character interesting, obviously that would be her final level 100 version. Or something like it.

If Kairi is going to be in KH3 as a playable character she better get her B.A.M.F on like in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BScCA2iq5Tw

I am indeed an outside the box thinker alright I figured the idea was probably going to get flamed given the maturity level of...well, most online sites in general... doesn't stop me from posting my thoughts though.

They have done some past stuff for Mickey in DDD, like when he was an apprentice or when he was working with the three musketeers, but will they incorporate Epic Mickey into the next game? I remember reading articles for it and it looked pretty cool though I haven't played it myself. I'd love to see Sora and the gang running into a darker side of their beloved Majesty and his journey to become king.

I think Sora is going to be a wild card and may be on the 13 darkness side for a bit

Perhaps a bit to advanced for this board...oh well

I am an ardent Sora x Riku shipper. I have been since I got the first game when it first came out all those years ago. I was a shipper of the pair before I even knew what shipping was, I didn't even leave destiny island till I was level twenty something because I wanted to make sure I found all the nooks, crannies and hints that Riku liked Sora. However while my shipping has been a passive love and enjoyment of the game and the way I could get my giggles from perceived innuendos and awkwardly shippable moments I found online that this was not the case for others. Flame wars spanning entire boards consumed whole groups of followers of the series and split them up because of their supposedly contradictory ships. Now I could rant about homophobia and other things like that but that is not what my call for ceasefire is about. I'm saying that the shippers and even the ones who want nothing to do with shipping (the "they are just friends" crowd) are not seeing the big picture. The whole battle is being waged because neither side is looking at all the facts objectively. So I did what I thought I would never EVER do. I looked at the evidence for the Sora x Kairi shipping moments and Sora x Riku moments in ALL the games and do you know what I found? I found that if kingdom hearts was one of those dating sims Sora would be having himself a Harem ending. Sora is not exclusively interested in Kairi, nor is he exclusively interested in Riku, but rather he has had enough moments with both of them to make it plausible that they would get together. Whats more, Kairi and Riku have no problems with one another whats so ever and care for each other with almost the same passion as they both care for Sora. My question too my shippers out there: Why would they have to choose when they could have a Threes Company ending? Why do people limit a relationship with only two people? The way I see this is like the story of the guy with the two hats. In reality his hat was half Red and half Green, but the people on one side of the street only saw the green hat and the other side only saw the red part of the hat, and they got into a heated argument over what color the hat really was. Except its more like each side of the street featured people with two different kinds of color blindness. Anything that resembled the other color was muted and gray while what they could perceive stood out vividly. So from here on out. I am a Riku x Sora x Kairi shipper. They came in threes, they love each other equally, let the trishipping begin.

I would say "TOTALLY CALLED IT!!!" since I've been thinking this would happen for years now

I'm picturing her as a summon character heartless swarm around Sora and then "I CAME IN LIKE A WRECKING BALL!!!!" Naked Miley swings in on a wrecking ball and takes out the heartless.... yeah...

He was referring to Organization XIII, Vanitas was not part of that (unless you count the whole Xion thing)

For number one I don't see how it conflicts with the theory, if anything it helps it. For number two I'd say that they are already prepping for a multi character arc since nearly every side game featured multiple playable characters. So The Sora arc could end with him getting turned, much like in Birth By Sleep. And yes its been on my brain for many years...many...many years. The new stuff just fit into the theory nicely.

Lea/Axel....just Om nom nom

I've been playing Kh since it first came out ages ago and I fell instantly in love with the series. I think about the story a bit more then I should and I have a whole slew of theories on what KH3 is going to feature, I've even posted some but I'd thought I'd say hey. So hey!

My big Kh theory; Xehanort is going to turn Sora into Vanitas: I predict that the entire aim of Xehanort in all his schemes recently is to recreate not only the Xblade but the one experiment that was closest to achieving that end. That experiment being Vanitas, that guy that looks disturbingly similar to Sora. How are they going to bring Vanitas back? By turning Sora into him. In fact that has been their entire aim since Chain Of Memories all the way to Dream Drop Distance. Now I know the refutes for this theory are as follows. Vanitas co existed with Sora so Sora is not Vanitas. However its far more complicated then that. Lets start at the very beginning of Vanitas's birth. He was getting sucked out of Ventus when Sora's newborn heart floated in and interacted with the two of them, healing Ventus and (my belief anyway) giving some of Sora's darkness in his stronger heart to Vanitas and thus making his appearance the dominant one even though he was supposed to be made from Ventus. So this mean Vanitas and Sora were born at the same time even though one was full grown and one was a newborn baby. It also means that if I'm right That Sora was not entirely whole when he was born, meaning he was missing a lot of the darkness in his heart which may explain why he is so happy all the time. So in a sense Sora and to a lesser extent Ventus were the light half and Vanitas was the dark half of two hearts. Then after Stuff goes down in Birth By Sleep Ventus and Vanitas reunite four years later and Ventus has to recuperate inside Sora. Ventus had none of his memories at this point although I'm not sure the same could be said of Vanitas, but at that point Sora's heart and persona was the most dominant. Like Roxas said in BBB it could of gone differently and Roxas could of chosen to become the dominant persona but "it had to be Sora" instead. Its all about Persona's and which is the most dominant. Like Riku and Ansem were fighting for dominance or when Xehanort and Terra was doing the same, Sora instead of contending with one extra persona and heart has many he has had to handle over the course of his life, though most have been incapacitated or memory wiped in one way or another. The have made hints to this dichotomy throughout the game and it left me with the question, what if an aggressive persona tried for Sora? As Xemnas said "Memory and the heart are tightly related" That is what a persona is. A collection of memories and decisions that make a person who they are. You take away those memories and the recollection of these decisions and then the persona is no more and can be rewritten, much like the Tron arc in dream drop distance. So the question is if I'm right and if they have been trying to bring Vanitas's persona and form out of Sora, have they been trying to attack Sora's memories and decisions? Anyone who has played the games can answer this with a resounding yes. At first Ansem, Xehanorts heartless, wanted to turn Riku into the Surrogate Vanitas. This is why he had Vanitas's uniform, his fighting stance, and why he was so chill when the darkness swallowed destiny Islands in the first game. He was trained and prepared for that to happen. We all know how that apprenticeship worked out, Ansem took over his body when he thought he was prepped enough and then he was eventually defeated and dominated by Sora and then Riku. Riku's heart and Persona were so dominant that he could hold Ansem's form and retain control. However When Sora released Kairi with Riku Ansem's dark keyblade he also released his nobody, previously memory wiped Ventus became Roxas and Kairi's Namine came into existence. Sora for a brief period of time became a shadow, but do to Kairi hugging him and her heart being inside him for so long, she was able to reboot his persona. Like Ansem Seeker of Darkness he was able to retain a human shape even though he was a heartless and remained a heartless until at least kh2. Without Sora's body and the other persona's buffering him from Vanitas he was much more vulnerable to being taken over during that period of time. This is what Castle Oblivion and 358/2 days was all about; Wiping his memories and his persona to rebirth Vanitas. However there was two different schools of thought over how it should be done in Organization 13. One group thought Vanitas should be born in Castle Oblivion and Xemnas and his people believed that it would be better to have Vanitas transferred into a Replica known as Xion. They thought Xion a failure though because of the fact that she was siphoning off residual memories of Kairi from her time inside Sora and thus taking on her appearance until those memories were fully downloaded and she started siphoning off Sora's persona. Xion in her desperation had Roxas Destroy her before she became Vanitas, stopping it at an armored Sora nobody thing. Namine similarly stopped Vanitas from coming out by Putting Sora to sleep to "help him heal" while that was a nicer way of saying stop him from going bad on them. During Kh2 one of the features of the Drives was Sora going Anti-sora when you abused the system. It should be noted that the black form and gold eyes not only resemble a shadow but Vanitas as well (kind of a stretch but I like it). During Dream drop distance Xehanort in all his forms alluded to the fact that Sora wasn't what he thought he was, that he should "check if the contents resemble whats on the label", and that he was the key to their plans to come into being. For them to recreate the Xblade. For them to recreate Vanitas. What this could mean for Kh3: I believe that for a time in Kh3 they will succeed and that Sora will be turned into Vanitas. I believe that Riku and probably Kairi and others will have to come and deal with the Sora/Vanitas, and give him speeches about friendship and all that Jazz, do a boss battle that strikingly resemble the fight between Riku and Sora from Kh1 but role reversed, and all the emotional turmoil that will come from having the happiest character in Kingdom Hearts go evil. It won't be for long: Such a thing like this will be short lived though, he will not be stuck that way for long and it will probably end with an internal battle between Sora and Vanitas in that Stain glass world we are always seeing. At which point Sora will win and become his good old self again. This theory of mine has been in the making for a long while but I have not seen everything to be completely sure, however I think it will be an awesome twist to the game if they do it like this. What do you think?

Er...I see I forgot to mention I was a Soriku shipper... I'm not sure how unrequited it is given what I've seen from KH2 and DDD