(This thread contains spoilers for those people who have either not played or watched a play through of Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep.)

 

(I also apologize, the first, extremely long paragraph below is not my full point, it is just a reconfirmation of something that is, that I'm sure of anyways, absolutely true.)

 

You recall X-Blade. Supposedly the most powerful Keyblade ever, it has the power to unlock or lock Kingdom Hearts, which no other Keyblade can do. Well as you recall, Ventus destroyed it. I first would like to point out a practically indisputable fact, not many people could deny it. Upon the X-Blade's destruction, two Keyblades were 'made'. Those two Keyblades are the Kingdom Key and Kingdom Key D. This is a somewhat obvious statement if you look at all the facts. A casual observer of the X-Blade and the two Keyblades Kingdom Key and Kingdom Key D would notice the fact that the X-Blade is composed of two Kingdom Key's which are crossed together, as well as a intricate blade sprouting from the top. The Keychain is also two Kingdom Keys crossed over a Heartless symbol which is devoid of the red X that the common Heartless symbol possesses. Also, consider the plot of Kingdom Hearts 1. King Mickey had acquired the Kingdom Key D, and sent Donald and Goofy on a mission to find the wielder of the 'corresponding' key, the Kingdom Key, which Sora possessed. They traveled on a journey to find King Mickey, not actually knowing what King Mickey needed Sora for. The initial purpose that King Mickey had for finding Sora (And an obvious one at that) was to close Kingdom Hearts (Unless I'm actually a bumbling idiot who has absolutely any idea of what he is talking about). But those two Keyblades were necessary because they were the fragments of the X-Blade, which is why Ansem SoD (Seeker of Darkness) stated "It is futile. The Keyblade alone, cannot seal the Door to Darkness." He was true, it could not close it by itself, it needed the other half of the X-Blade.

 

And after that long and exhausting side explanation of why those two Keyblades are Fragments of the X-Blade. However, due to a thread created by sora mahon, and my response, it got me thinking about this, what if there were a third Keyblade? That's right. I think that a third Keyblade created upon the destruction of the X-Blade, due to only one small piece of evidence. I am being led to believe that this third Keyblade was the Keyblade that Riku possesses: Way to the Dawn. I will be honest, it is a very unlikely possibility, but I still consider it possible. The small piece of evidence that I mentioned can be found in the Keychains of the X-Blade and the Way to the Dawn Keyblade. If my eyes do not fail me, they both possess a 'X-less' Heartless symbol. That one little thing led me to believe that the Way to the Dawn Keyblade was also created upon the destruction of the X-Blade, however, I myself tend to doubt it.

 

Well, that's all I really have to say about it, feel free to criticize any flaws and what-not.

Here is some of that extra evidence I was talking about. Within the bbs data, if you recall from some time ago, was a kingdom key D that ven and only ven could wield. On the subject of deleted data is there any sort of an archive anywhere of removed data? Now ask yourself why would it be in the data? To test out a weapon, I don't think so, they already had TAV's keybades designed. It makes the most sense for it to have been a tentative part of the story that they removed later on. And to those who say they removed those three keyblades in the second part of the secret ending look at 1:29

, however it appears to be in its way to dawn form. Why they don't have it all the way but in this one scene *shrugs*. I believe that these three keyblades in the old version of bbs, once meant to part of, or had a deep connection to the x-blade. There was even a dtd found in the data!

 

Aside from the data and relating to my ideas about the kh mythology the wtd keyblade still fits into this idea. Take into consideration the Door to darkness tied by two keys and one key to open it thing. This part of my theory in short is: The X-blade is to (the realm of) kingdom hearts as the three keyblades are to the three realms. However when applying that two of these keys are tying the door to darkness we are left with way to dawn in the middle where the dtd is. The dtd being closer related to if not the a manifestation of kingdom hearts, and the dtl being the true light (kingdom hearts) within our heart, could it be said that the way to dawn might be related to the dtl. After all the way road/way to dawn would be leading you to the light. The realm of between is also not the most normal realm to be modest.

 

Also the thing about the three keyblades before the final battle of kh2, did anyone else see the heart in the ball of energy before they pointed their keyblades upward. So it took these three to open it the door that the worlds summoned. The x-blade is not man made counterparts to kingdom hearts but instead on the same level as kingdom hearts (?). Could this heart mean something more?

 

Edit:

 

 

And what about the fact that it completely disintegrated when it was destroyed, leaving nothing left? Also, the Keyblade Sora has was originally supposed to be Riku's it's just he fell to darkness and that weakened his heart. And since Sora had Ven's heart inside him, and at the time his heart was stronger than Riku's, the Keyblade moved on to him.

 

You also have to remember, Nomura didn't even think of the X-blade until after KH2.

 

I feel the 'coincidence' between the three keyblades and the x-blade is evidence so utterly greater than the simple way it was destroyed should undermine that fact. Riku is connected to Vanitas, so that doesn't really matter. Who said Nomura didn't think of the x-blade until after kh2, and in the case that is true you can always build on something established in earlier games into the new ones (i.e. sora stabbing his heart). At the absolute least the three keyblades were going to be put into the game at some point as part of the plot.

 

Actually, the original KH2 secret ending isn't canon anymore. BBS was originally supposed to be after KH2, so that's why they had those keyblades in the KH2 Secret Ending.

 

Also, how is Riku connected to Vanitas? The only thing I can think of is the fact that Riku's Darkness outfit is similar to Vanitas', but that doesn't mean they're connected. It could just be Ansem SoD's influence over Riku, possibly remembering Vanitas' outfit from when he was Master Xehanort, which is also why Ansem SoD's outfir is similar to MX's

I think it's possible for Vanitas to be connected to Riku, only because of Vanitas' disappearance after he was defeated. Ventus lost his heart after he defeated Vanitas, shouldn't have Vanitas' heart been sent off somewhere as well?

And what about the fact that it completely disintegrated when it was destroyed, leaving nothing left? Also, the Keyblade Sora has was originally supposed to be Riku's it's just he fell to darkness and that weakened his heart. And since Sora had Ven's heart inside him, and at the time his heart was stronger than Riku's, the Keyblade moved on to him.

 

You also have to remember, Nomura didn't even think of the X-blade until after KH2.

 

Yes, I know that the Kingdom Key was meant for Riku, I'm not stupid. Also, though it may be possible, you have no proof present to back up your second statement about Nomura, until you get some, don't state it as fact. Finally, yes, to the eye, the X-Blade was completely destroyed. Maleficent was also 'completely' destroyed, but she came back. This game series is full of plot holes, just because something is completely destroyed doesn't mean that something can't come back some how. This is a video game, things don't always play by our rules, like how someone can hold someone else inside himself/herself, or that you can pierce through enemies with a giant Key Sword that generally has no sharp points in many of its forms. With this in mind, it's pretty possible for two Keyblades to become existent upon the destruction of the X-Blade.

Actually, the original KH2 secret ending isn't canon anymore. BBS was originally supposed to be after KH2, so that's why they had those keyblades in the KH2 Secret Ending.

I know the kh2 secret ending isn't cannon as with the deleted data. The ideas the deleted data presented as well as the secret ending will last as how the story might have gone, and that was the point I was trying to make. Also, where did you hear bbs was meant to take place after kh2?

 

Also, how is Riku connected to Vanitas? The only thing I can think of is the fact that Riku's Darkness outfit is similar to Vanitas', but that doesn't mean they're connected. It could just be Ansem SoD's influence over Riku, possibly remembering Vanitas' outfit from when he was Master Xehanort, which is also why Ansem SoD's outfir is similar to MX's

 

There are a lot of various congruencies between Vanitas and Riku among other things:

-Riku was said to have "light" in bbs but in kh1 you know

-Ventus and Vanitas in their destati have the same speach as Sora and Riku in Hollow bastion first fight "my friends are my power!"

-The opening movie of bbs with Vens destati tower breaking is all symbolic of the connection of Sora and Ventus, and Riku and Vanitas.

-and of course the suit.

I don't think xehanort could have done that.

I think it's possible for Vanitas to be connected to Riku, only because of Vanitas' disappearance after he was defeated. Ventus lost his heart after he defeated Vanitas, shouldn't have Vanitas' heart been sent off somewhere as well?

 

Ventus destroyed Vanitas and the X-blade in his heart. Vanitas didn't have a heart, he was the darkness of Ven's heart.

 

 

And what about the fact that it completely disintegrated when it was destroyed, leaving nothing left? Also, the Keyblade Sora has was originally supposed to be Riku's it's just he fell to darkness and that weakened his heart. And since Sora had Ven's heart inside him, and at the time his heart was stronger than Riku's, the Keyblade moved on to him.

 

You also have to remember, Nomura didn't even think of the X-blade until after KH2.

 

Yes, I know that the Kingdom Key was meant for Riku, I'm not stupid. Also, though it may be possible, you have no proof present to back up your second statement about Nomura, until you get some, don't state it as fact. Finally, yes, to the eye, the X-Blade was completely destroyed. Maleficent was also 'completely' destroyed, but she came back. This game series is full of plot holes, just because something is completely destroyed doesn't mean that something can't come back some how. This is a video game, things don't always play by our rules, like how someone can hold someone else inside himself/herself, or that you can pierce through enemies with a giant Key Sword that generally has no sharp points in many of its forms. With this in mind, it's pretty possible for two Keyblades to become existent upon the destruction of the X-Blade.

 

It's true I don't have any proof that Nomura didn't think of it beforehand, but as I said before, you have to remember that BBS was originally set to be after KH2. Even if he had thought of the X-blade then, it wouldn't have caused the creation of the KK and the KKD. Also, Maleficent wasn't completely destroyed. Her clothes and crow remained, as well as peoples memories of her. Just the mention of her name was enough to bring her back.

 

 

Actually, the original KH2 secret ending isn't canon anymore. BBS was originally supposed to be after KH2, so that's why they had those keyblades in the KH2 Secret Ending.

I know the kh2 secret ending isn't cannon as with the deleted data. The ideas the deleted data presented as well as the secret ending will last as how the story might have gone, and that was the point I was trying to make. Also, where did you hear bbs was meant to take place after kh2?

 

Also, how is Riku connected to Vanitas? The only thing I can think of is the fact that Riku's Darkness outfit is similar to Vanitas', but that doesn't mean they're connected. It could just be Ansem SoD's influence over Riku, possibly remembering Vanitas' outfit from when he was Master Xehanort, which is also why Ansem SoD's outfir is similar to MX's

 

There are a lot of various congruencies between Vanitas and Riku among other things:

-Riku was said to have "light" in bbs but in kh1 you know

-Ventus and Vanitas in their destati have the same speach as Sora and Riku in Hollow bastion first fight "my friends are my power!"

-The opening movie of bbs with Vens destati tower breaking is all symbolic of the connection of Sora and Ventus, and Riku and Vanitas.

-and of course the suit.

I don't think xehanort could have done that.

 

I learned that it was supposed to be before from this site a long time before I actually joined. As for the speaches they give, that's just Nomura adding in things that were said before. Like when Ven/Vanitas said to Aqua "Giving up already?" Just because they say similar things doesn't mean they're connected. Also, with the openings, they don't symbolize anything. For example, in the opening of KH1 when Sora is standing next to Kairi and looks up to see himself falling, and then he falls through what seemed to be water and ended up becoming his falling self, there is no symbolism for that. As for the KH2 opening, that was just showing people some of the major points in the previous two games, no symbolism there either.

Vanitas does have a heart, Master Xehanort even confirms it.

 

He has no control over the darkness in his heart. The Keyblade is not his to bear. He's an abomination beyond hope of salvation.

Plus you have to have a heart to wield a Keyblade, a true Keyblade that is.

Anyways, I'm realizing I'm getting off-topic with this.

 

I'm not sure if the Way to Dawn was created in result of the X-Blade being shattered, but I do agree with the fact that the Way to Dawn is X-Blade related.

Ventus destroyed Vanitas and the X-blade in his heart. Vanitas didn't have a heart' date=' he was the darkness of Ven's heart.[/quote']

 

He was the big missing chunk from Ven's heart way at the beginning of the game. With this fragment, he was able to create a complete heart for himself.

 

It's true I don't have any proof that Nomura didn't think of it beforehand, but as I said before, you have to remember that BBS was originally set to be after KH2.

 

Someone? Anyone? A link? A quote? Anything. I've been searching for this for the past hour and still can't find it, yet people have been saying this on the forums for days now, and I know I'm not the only person who's questioning the source. :

 

Also it was Daisuke Watanabe who came up with the X-blade, not Nomura. But eh, you know, technicalities.

 

Even if he had thought of the X-blade then, it wouldn't have caused the creation of the KK and the KKD. Also, Maleficent wasn't completely destroyed. Her clothes and crow remained, as well as peoples memories of her. Just the mention of her name was enough to bring her back.

 

But mainly popularity. Japanese fans want Maleficent back? Okay, we'll include some deus ex machina to make it so.

 

Also' date=' There are a lot of various congruencies between Vanitas and Riku among other things:

-Riku was said to have "light" in bbs but in kh1 you know[/quote']

 

And he still does have light. It's just that his heart became more succeptable to being corrupted with darkness as the years went by. It's not like his heart is pure darkness. The way I see it, everyone is born with pure hearts of light. Only the princesses are safe from corruption. Riku was just easier to corrupt than, say, Sora.

 

I learned that it was supposed to be before from this site a long time before I actually joined. As for the speaches they give' date=' that's just Nomura adding in things that were said before. Like when Ven/Vanitas said to Aqua "Giving up already?" Just because they say similar things doesn't mean they're connected. Also, with the openings, they don't symbolize anything. For example, in the opening of KH1 when Sora is standing next to Kairi and looks up to see himself falling, and then he falls through what seemed to be water and ended up becoming his falling self, there is no symbolism for that. As for the KH2 opening, that was just showing people some of the major points in the previous two games, no symbolism there either. [/quote']

 

We have no proof either way regarding Riku and Vanitas' possible connection. It's never been mentioned in any interviews, and keystrike provided plenty of plausible reasons that support the theory; the suit, the similarities in their Keyblades, the battle stance as well. So, where did you learn that they don't share a connection if it's never been mentioned officially? How do you know that the KH1 intro was just meant to look pretty and not mean anything?

I'll admit this, I shouldn't claim as fact that the KK and KKD came from the X-Blade. There hasn't been any 100% confirmations about it, that I know of anyways. I do have a strong conviction about it though considering the fact that the X-Blade contains two crossed KKs as a part of its general base and handle grip, as well as the same thing on it's keychain. That is why I am stating it as if it were fact, though I shouldn't be doing that.

I'll admit this, I shouldn't claim as fact that the KK and KKD came from the X-Blade. There hasn't been any 100% confirmations about it, that I know of anyways. I do have a strong conviction about it though considering the fact that the X-Blade contains two crossed KKs as a part of its general base and handle grip, as well as the same thing on it's keychain. That is why I am stating it as if it were fact, though I shouldn't be doing that.

 

You're right, there hasn't been any connections regarding any relations to the KK and KKD.A lot of people on here are now making theories and stuff saying how it may have any relationship to the X-Blade, which cleary doesn't since the X-Blade was completely destroyed by Aqua and Ventus. So there's no way that KK and KKD are "remains" of the X-Blade even though they do in a way show some trade marks and that KK is light and KKD is darkness. So i totally agree with you.

 

@SK3, how can Way To Dawn be connected with the X-Blade? There is no possible way for that to happen. If it was, Way To Dawn would have probably shown at least a hint about it.

 

I'll admit this, I shouldn't claim as fact that the KK and KKD came from the X-Blade. There hasn't been any 100% confirmations about it, that I know of anyways. I do have a strong conviction about it though considering the fact that the X-Blade contains two crossed KKs as a part of its general base and handle grip, as well as the same thing on it's keychain. That is why I am stating it as if it were fact, though I shouldn't be doing that.

 

You're right, there hasn't been any connections regarding any relations to the KK and KKD.A lot of people on here are now making theories and stuff saying how it may have any relationship to the X-Blade, which cleary doesn't since the X-Blade was completely destroyed by Aqua and Ventus. So there's no way that KK and KKD are "remains" of the X-Blade even though they do in a way show some trade marks and that KK is light and KKD is darkness. So i totally agree with you.

 

@SK3, how can Way To Dawn be connected with the X-Blade? There is no possible way for that to happen. If it was, Way To Dawn would have probably shown at least a hint about it.

 

No one can say that the KK and KKD are or aren't 'fragments' of the X-Blade, as there is no evidence for or against it. There can only be speculations until there is evidence given that proves one side. So, just as I shouldn't say that the KK and KKD were created upon the destruction of the X-Blade as fact, no one should say the opposite as fact either, as neither side has firm evidence confirming their point. I seem to find lots of hypocritical events on this site, but I myself have been tangled in some of those events, so I am also at fault.

 

I'll admit this, I shouldn't claim as fact that the KK and KKD came from the X-Blade. There hasn't been any 100% confirmations about it, that I know of anyways. I do have a strong conviction about it though considering the fact that the X-Blade contains two crossed KKs as a part of its general base and handle grip, as well as the same thing on it's keychain. That is why I am stating it as if it were fact, though I shouldn't be doing that.

 

You're right, there hasn't been any connections regarding any relations to the KK and KKD.A lot of people on here are now making theories and stuff saying how it may have any relationship to the X-Blade, which cleary doesn't since the X-Blade was completely destroyed by Aqua and Ventus. So there's no way that KK and KKD are "remains" of the X-Blade even though they do in a way show some trade marks and that KK is light and KKD is darkness. So i totally agree with you.

 

@SK3, how can Way To Dawn be connected with the X-Blade? There is no possible way for that to happen. If it was, Way To Dawn would have probably shown at least a hint about it.

 

There is a hint. The keychain.

 

 

I'll admit this, I shouldn't claim as fact that the KK and KKD came from the X-Blade. There hasn't been any 100% confirmations about it, that I know of anyways. I do have a strong conviction about it though considering the fact that the X-Blade contains two crossed KKs as a part of its general base and handle grip, as well as the same thing on it's keychain. That is why I am stating it as if it were fact, though I shouldn't be doing that.

 

You're right, there hasn't been any connections regarding any relations to the KK and KKD.A lot of people on here are now making theories and stuff saying how it may have any relationship to the X-Blade, which cleary doesn't since the X-Blade was completely destroyed by Aqua and Ventus. So there's no way that KK and KKD are "remains" of the X-Blade even though they do in a way show some trade marks and that KK is light and KKD is darkness. So i totally agree with you.

 

@SK3, how can Way To Dawn be connected with the X-Blade? There is no possible way for that to happen. If it was, Way To Dawn would have probably shown at least a hint about it.

 

There is a hint. The keychain.

 

Hey, someone who actually agrees with my one measly piece of evidence. I feel special, because I'm dumb like that.

 

 

I'll admit this, I shouldn't claim as fact that the KK and KKD came from the X-Blade. There hasn't been any 100% confirmations about it, that I know of anyways. I do have a strong conviction about it though considering the fact that the X-Blade contains two crossed KKs as a part of its general base and handle grip, as well as the same thing on it's keychain. That is why I am stating it as if it were fact, though I shouldn't be doing that.

 

You're right, there hasn't been any connections regarding any relations to the KK and KKD.A lot of people on here are now making theories and stuff saying how it may have any relationship to the X-Blade, which cleary doesn't since the X-Blade was completely destroyed by Aqua and Ventus. So there's no way that KK and KKD are "remains" of the X-Blade even though they do in a way show some trade marks and that KK is light and KKD is darkness. So i totally agree with you.

 

@SK3, how can Way To Dawn be connected with the X-Blade? There is no possible way for that to happen. If it was, Way To Dawn would have probably shown at least a hint about it.

 

There is a hint. The keychain.

 

Ok, I compared the two keychains and although they do look a little similiar, it doesn't seem to be close either. I mean on Way To Dawn's keyblade there is a heartless symbol on it. But on the X-Blade's keychain has some little red thing ( I couldn't truly tell if that was a heartless symbol or not) that doesn't seem to look like Way To Dawn's.

The only difference between the X-Blade Keychain and the Way to Dawn Keychain is the fact that the X-Blade Keychain has two Kingdom Keys crossed on it, symbolizing an X, instead of the Heartless symbol. Besides that its the exact same Keychain.

The only difference between the X-Blade Keychain and the Way to Dawn Keychain is the fact that the X-Blade Keychain has two Kingdom Keys crossed on it, symbolizing an X, instead of the Heartless symbol. Besides that its the exact same Keychain.

 

I know that, I meant like what was under those two keyblades crossed on top of that red thing was what i meant. But I still really don't think that Way To Dawn has any connecions with the X-Blade itself. There really hasn't been any proof or hasn't even been confirmed that it does. The way I see it, the X-Blade and Way To Dawn are two different keyblades.

 

It's just as keyblader said:

No one can say that the KK and KKD are or aren't 'fragments' of the X-Blade, as there is no evidence for or against it. There can only be speculations until there is evidence given that proves one side.

And I agree with that statement.

Proof and evidence are two different things in my opinion. Proof would come in the form of the game and we extend this to nomura's interviews and evidence of an idea would come in a game and could not be 'proven'. I saw this idea on HeartSeams: On Kingdom Hearts about the author is dead and one of the points I am going to take from it is about how much investment we put into Nomura's words and this is taking away the some of the joy of theorizing. So now in the case of what keyblader said, discussion of this sort of a topic where nomura has yet to touch on it I think a simple discussion of what we think and not making a big deal about the absence of nomura's word on it is appropriate.

 

Anyways back to the discussion. As I said before, at the very least in the early (early early etc) stages of its development they had at the least the kingdom key and kingdom key D in the story (as well as a dtd). So it really isn't all or nothing with this idea and through examing the pas

Proof and evidence are two different things in my opinion. Proof would come in the form of the game and we extend this to Nomura's interviews and evidence of an idea would come in a game and could not be 'proven'. I saw a certain idea on HeartSeams: On Kingdom Hearts about the author is dead and one of the points I am going to take from it is about how much investment we put into Nomura's words and this is taking away the some of the joy of theorizing. So now in the case of what keyblader said, discussion of this sort of a topic where Nomura has yet to touch on it I think a simple discussion of what we think and not making a big deal about the absence of Nomura's word on it is appropriate.

 

Anyways back to the discussion. As I said before, at the very least in the early (early early etc) stages of its development they had at the least the kingdom key and kingdom key D in the story (as well as a dtd). The deleted Kingdom key d seems like a strong piece of evidence in this idea and I am wondering what do you guys think about it.