One thing that really annoys me about KH3 is that it will most likely be based on plot elements that were introduced after KH1 and KH2 were already created, and it seems to me that Square Enix created a prequel (Birth by Sleep, of course) just to use it elements in the final title of the Xehanort Saga (KH3). What really bugs me about this is that in no part of KH1, CoM or 2 didn't they even mention the Keyblade War or Old Master Xehanort before, and then they just make these new games saying that "oh wait, this guy has actually been the main villain throughout the series and planned everything to happen the way it did." Sorry to be a complainer but it seems DDD barely had any plot to it, because all of it basically happened in the final world, and they could have easily fit that part of the plot with the 13 Voldermorts- I mean Xehanorts into KH3... Sure many of the smaller minor plot points wouldn't have happened if this miniscule plot (KH DDD ending), in comparison to that of KH1 and 2, didn't happen but seriously, does it need a whole game ? I liked the combat obviously, but the lack of story bugged me, and Square is just crappin out these smaller scale games to get more money and to set up the stage for a new game, which will give them more money.... Again sorry to be a complainer but once I saw that time travel was introduced into Kingdom Hearts as an apparent plot hole filler, it made me question Nomura's creativity (again, Square just made FF 13-2 which was focused on time travel and left the game open for a sequel, not even giving any resolution to the story which instantly reminds me of DDD, and how there was basically no progression in the story). Here's basically what happened in DDD: Xehanorts back, you need to become masters, he can time travel now, he wants to do the same thing he did in BBS except with 13 of him-selves and 7 lightnesses, oh and nobody actually was defeated in the prior KH games, because they're all alive again.... The end. So what's your guys' thoughts on this? What was the point of all prior Kingdom Hearts games if basically none of the characters actions mattered (except Xehanort) and nothing was resolved? To make money? What has Square Enix created that is worth paying $40 to $60 for every year or two for? Most of the games are just experiencing the plots of various Disney movies but with a twist... Let me know your thoughts guys, and if anyone understands what I'm saying, please let me know....

Edited August 16, 201213 yr by Master Juan

Yeah, I kind of agree with this. BBS and DDD just seemed to overcomplicate things.

 

And the whole time travel thing. No! Why did they have to include time travel?!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Nomura makes it so in KH IV Xehanort returns from the past.

It does seem like the're rushing the games so they can make more games and not being as picky as they were in past titles about quality.

Plot isn't a business practice

The smaller scale games are also on smaller scale systems at lower prices

Of course the plot has changed from the original, but I'm betting a lot of the key ideas were part of Nomura's original plan.

And I'd say that a game you have fun playing is worth 40-60 bucks

And, honestly, if you don't play KH for the gameplay and the Disney, you probably shouldn't be playing it with any degree of high expectations.

i kinda knew the series was heading in this direction ever since the secret movie in bbs i just didnt want to believe it lets just hope nomura doesnt rush kh3 so much that it turns out to be like DDD story (:

True dat!! SQUARE ENIX MAKES GOOD GAMES......BUT NOT GREAT GAMES!!!

Plot isn't a business practice

The smaller scale games are also on smaller scale systems at lower prices

Of course the plot has changed from the original, but I'm betting a lot of the key ideas were part of Nomura's original plan.

And I'd say that a game you have fun playing is worth 40-60 bucks

And, honestly, if you don't play KH for the gameplay and the Disney, you probably shouldn't be playing it with any degree of high expectations.

 

Yes I understand that the plot has changed from the original, but when they actually go and alter the original plot by saying things like, Master Xehanort had planned this out all along and it was everyone's destiny etc., that bugs me. And I disagree with you about playing KH for gameplay and Disney, the first game had such an innovative plot and very great themes to it, even managing to teach that you can find hope in the darkest situations. The ideas it presented were simply amazing. But where can you find an idea like this in DDD? I just don't want Kingdom Hearts to become a series made just for the sole purpose of profits...

What did you expect? KH was already overcomplicated. The gameplay is great, but if you expect story quality of a classic book like Lord of the Rings, you need to look elsewhere. Probably outside video games, TVs, and Hollywood.

Yes I understand that the plot has changed from the original, but when they actually go and alter the original plot by saying things like, Master Xehanort had planned this out all along and it was everyone's destiny etc., that bugs me. And I disagree with you about playing KH for gameplay and Disney, the first game had such an innovative plot and very great themes to it, even managing to teach that you can find hope in the darkest situations. The ideas it presented were simply amazing. But where can you find an idea like this in DDD? I just don't want Kingdom Hearts to become a series made just for the sole purpose of profits...

 

Boy meets world, tries to save girl while his best friend is being used by the villain and eventually atones by sacrificing himself?

i'd hardly call that innovative. Cliche maybe.

And I have no way of telling you if those ideas can be found in DDD, because you didn't name any. Just saying 'Amazing ideas' doesn't exactly leave much to go off of

Boy meets world, tries to save girl while his best friend is being used by the villain and eventually atones by sacrificing himself?

i'd hardly call that innovative. Cliche maybe.

And I have no way of telling you if those ideas can be found in DDD, because you didn't name any. Just saying 'Amazing ideas' doesn't exactly leave much to go off of

 

Ideas that I find amazing, I specifically said that it expressed ideas like how even darkness can be overcome with the slightest bit of will power. Also for some more, If you look at things with a positive outlook, any challenge can be overcome, friendship can be an unbreakable bond unlike anything else and give you the strength to do anything. When you play games do you look at anything besides gameplay? When you read books do you truly understand what ideas the author is trying to convey? In the nicest way possible, I suggest that you replay Kingdom Hearts 1 and truly try and comprehend the ideas that Squaresoft included with the game, rather than looking at it with a single-minded this is cliche outlook. Oh and by the way, I did name the idea in my first post.... do you even read my posts all the way? I clearly gave an example of an idea (oh and after you read this post, try to truly look at what I'm trying to say, instead of automatically disagreeing with me), "-managing to teach that you can find hope in the darkest situations."

Ideas that I find amazing, I specifically said that it expressed ideas like how even darkness can be overcome with the slightest bit of will power. Also for some more, If you look at things with a positive outlook, any challenge can be overcome, friendship can be an unbreakable bond unlike anything else and give you the strength to do anything. When you play games do you look at anything besides gameplay? When you read books do you truly understand what ideas the author is trying to convey? In the nicest way possible, I suggest that you replay Kingdom Hearts 1 and truly try and comprehend the ideas that Squaresoft included with the game, rather than looking at it with a single-minded this is cliche outlook. Oh and by the way, I did name the idea in my first post.... do you even read my posts all the way? I clearly gave an example of an idea (oh and after you read this post, try to truly look at what I'm trying to say, instead of automatically disagreeing with me), "-managing to teach that you can find hope in the darkest situations."

 

First of all, sorry, I interpreted that as a lesson, or moral, rather than an idea, but I guess that works as an idea... but...

Do you seriously not know how cliche that all sounds? Triumph over darkness. Friendship is good and also forms bonds.

This stuff isn't just old, these are pretty much the most basic ideas, most fundamental ideas in a story. I also and amused at how literally you take these themes. Darkness isn't a physical thing that can be overcome. It's a metaphor.

Let me be blunt; I take courses on story and writing, and research stuff like this in my spare time. I KNOW KH is bad. KH is a high budget fanfic whose creator's ideas are starting to be weighed too heavily in the overall plot. All of the characters are getting ridiculously overpowered, and the plot, while often derided or praised for being ridiculously complex, is actually quite simple, but presented in such a bad, amateur way (Mostly due to time constraints on the development of the games, as well as space and budget limits) that it appears incomprehensible.

KH isn't deep, it THINKS it is. It subsists on a diet of plot contrivances and anime cliches, all the while holding it together with Disney, duct tape, and the wishes of its fans.

Here's the thing. I don't like KH. I LOVE it. I enjoy all of the games immensely, but being unable toacknowledge the flaws of something you enjoy doesn't make you a fan, it makes you blind.

And about replaying KH1, I've actually recently started playing KH1 and 2 final mix, and if anything, it's been showing me how far KH has fallen

First of all, sorry, I interpreted that as a lesson, or moral, rather than an idea, but I guess that works as an idea... but...

Do you seriously not know how cliche that all sounds? Triumph over darkness. Friendship is good and also forms bonds.

This stuff isn't just old, these are pretty much the most basic ideas, most fundamental ideas in a story. I also and amused at how literally you take these themes. Darkness isn't a physical thing that can be overcome. It's a metaphor.

Let me be blunt; I take courses on story and writing, and research stuff like this in my spare time. I KNOW KH is bad. KH is a high budget fanfic whose creator's ideas are starting to be weighed too heavily in the overall plot. All of the characters are getting ridiculously overpowered, and the plot, while often derided or praised for being ridiculously complex, is actually quite simple, but presented in such a bad, amateur way (Mostly due to time constraints on the development of the games, as well as space and budget limits) that it appears incomprehensible.

KH isn't deep, it THINKS it is. It subsists on a diet of plot contrivances and anime cliches, all the while holding it together with Disney, duct tape, and the wishes of its fans.

Here's the thing. I don't like KH. I LOVE it. I enjoy all of the games immensely, but being unable toacknowledge the flaws of something you enjoy doesn't make you a fan, it makes you blind.

And about replaying KH1, I've actually recently started playing KH1 and 2 final mix, and if anything, it's been showing me how far KH has fallen

 

You know I agree with you on all of this, I even stated a lot of the things you said in my very first post on this thread. I was just defending how the series has changed from its core roots in Kingdom Hearts 1 and I understand the idea is very unoriginal. It was just so creative at the time, and my mindset has remained that way ever since. I acknowledge the flaws, but I also acknowledge the good parts of it. I'm glad we think similar in a sense, and I agree with you that triumph over darkness sounds very cliche. I'm just saying that it expresses these ideas in the first game in a very excellent way, as compared to the newer titles blatant unoriginality and obsessiveness with its own ideas. You are a deep thinker too, and I'm glad others are like that.

Edited August 16, 201213 yr by Master Juan