According to Young Xehanort, Sora was chosen as a potential 13th vessel because of his susceptibility to darkness. I find two particular questions that this poses. Why is Sora susceptible to darkness, and how did the Xehanorts find this out?

 

1. Sora's susceptibility

 

I think it all traces back to Sora's use of the Keyblade of Peoples' Heart; it makes sense for a "keyblade that opens hearts to darkness" to actually mean "make them susceptible to darkness." Anti-Form would serve as a constant reminder to Sora of the side-effects of his Heartless transformation; this could be interpreted as, "his heart's still jacked up."

 

2. AtW's/DiZ's research

 

I think AtW (well, as the persona of DiZ) is one of the 13 SoD's. Golden eye, check. Scum of the Earth personality, check. Mark of heresy, check. He even monitored Roxas for quite a while, perhaps subconsciously eyeing him as the potential 13th vessel. All the while, he was studying Sora as he slept, and this would be where the Xehanorts could find out about Sora's susceptibility.

 

Then you get the third question: When exactly would AtW have entangled himself in the Xehanort mess?

 

3. Xehanort's connection to AtW

 

Nomura hinted at there being significance to Xehanort's different appearances. When it comes to XH, he seems to draw inspiration from AtW, much like MX influences the appearance of Braig/Xigbar.

 

-Amber eyes

-Round ears

-The hair, kind of. Particularly around the forehead

-Personality-wise, you could say that Apprentice Xehanort inherited AtW's study habits

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps, in parallelism to Ven's initial connection to Sora, Terranort connected to AtW's heart as a form of life-support (since AtW described Xehanort as "being near death's door"). This connection would then evolve alongside the bond of anger/hatred between Apprentice Xehanort and AtW.

 

Sora wanted to help Ven. AtW wanted to help Xehanort. Thus, BBS would end how it began; changing the fate of the universe with simple desire.

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Gogo

Saix may have started with ulterior motives, but he still ended up a lapdog, and it's the results that count. When it comes to Riku, I think we're just arguing semantics here. We both agree that he wasn't completely shot down, but I think we can also agree that the fact that they moved down the list shows that they gave up on him at least somewhat.

 

As for the Org., they were Nobodies developing hearts, so they were still beings of the RoN; they might have different rules of Xehanortification from beings of the RoL. For instance, loyalty.

 

 

 

The key point is that Roxas chose to be disloyal. Xehanort/Xemnas could have forced him to be a SoD like he would have done to Sora, but he didn't because he couldn't.

 

 

 

 

I can understand how it would work, but whether or not there's a better explanation is something I want to test.

 

 

 1.It was said that given the right circumstances and nurturing nobodies can grow hearts . So some might have while others didn't. 

2.My point on Riku is that in DDD they were still trying 

3. Saix was already norted during the entire time we've seen him during Days where he was still openly planning to take over with Axel. This plan was in effect up until Axel left and went rogue in which Saix laments that now that Axel was gone they would never get their hearts back bc he knew Xemnas was up to no good . They just didn't know what it was yet. So that means  that as he was clearly 'disloyal' he was still becoming more and more 'norted ' regardless.

But the reason he couldn't be a vessel is because he went back to Sora. By that I mean Roxas no longer had a body for them to use as a vessel. 

 

Xemnas had Roxas within his reach for almost an entire year; if he could force Roxas into being a SoD like that, don't you think he would've done so?

 

 

 

 1.It was said that given the right circumstances and nurturing nobodies can grow hearts . So some might have while others didn't. 

2.My point on Riku is that in DDD they were still trying 

3. Saix was already norted during the entire time we've seen him during Days where he was still openly planning to take over with Axel. This plan was in effect up until Axel left and went rogue in which Saix laments that now that Axel was gone they would never get their hearts back bc he knew Xemnas was up to no good . They just didn't know what it was yet. So that means  that as he was clearly 'disloyal' he was still becoming more and more 'norted ' regardless.

1. Perhaps one of the prerequisites to developing a Xehanort heart is loyalty.3. I was not aware of Saix' activeness with the plan (didn't finish Days). Hope you don't mind, but could you quote me some? Even so, Saix showed a certain degree of loyalty that most others didn't, especially Roxas; it may have been that loyalty that made him a successful vessel.

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Gogo

Xemnas had Roxas within his reach for almost an entire year; if he could force Roxas into being a SoD like that, don't you think he would've done so?

They were trying to decide whether to go with Roxas or Xion the whole time. Right after Xion died Roxas went rough. Then Riku stopped him before Roxas could get to Xemnas and Diz hid Roxas. So there was no time for Xemnas to get to Roxas after Xion died. 

 

Also we don't know if Xemnas could nort people by himself. 

They were trying to decide whether to go with Roxas or Xion the whole time. Right after Xion died Roxas went rough. Then Riku stopped him before Roxas could get to Xemnas and Diz hid Roxas. So there was no time for Xemnas to get to Roxas after Xion died. 

 

Also we don't know if Xemnas could nort people by himself. 

 

They still had Roxas before, and could have made him a vessel before Xion was even born. Furthermore, there's no way to even speculate that Xion was a potential vessel. Hell, any member of the original Org could have been mind-controlled.

 

Assuming Xemnas couldn't do it, someone would have had to, otherwise why label Roxas as an option if it wasn't an option? I don't think it was a matter of "he wasn't available at the right time," because that would've been YX's reasoning.

Xemnas had Roxas within his reach for almost an entire year; if he could force Roxas into being a SoD like that, don't you think he would've done so?

 

 

 

 

1. Perhaps one of the prerequisites to developing a Xehanort heart is loyalty.3. I was not aware of Saix' activeness with the plan (didn't finish Days). Hope you don't mind, but could you quote me some? Even so, Saix showed a certain degree of loyalty that most others didn't, especially Roxas; it may have been that loyalty that made him a successful vessel.

 

Obviously not bc of Saix bc he was clearly disloyal :

 

 

 

=====Day 26: Axel's Actions=====Simple deduction suggests Axel's outwardly inscrutable actions are the resultof some directive from Saïx.Why else eliminate Vexen? He simply wanted to do research. Did we not allstand to gain from the fruits of his Program? What is Axel thinking?Report Author: Zexion=====Day 27: Organization Dog=====Axel is in the way, though I don't know if he's aware of our plot.Vexen had no part in our plans - why eliminate him, assuming Axel's orderswere to root out traitors to the organization? Discerning his motives meritsour full attention.Report Author: Marluxia=====Day 28: Dealing with the Traitors=====I've uncovered most of what I need to know about the Replica Program, butwhere's the other one? I can't find any trace of it.... Vexen was caught in the middle. Pitiable, but unavoidable. I could notrisk his Program falling into their hands.Of greater concern are the traitors. Not the obvious turncoats, but the oneswho will get in his and my way. The Keyblade master is not our enemy.Report Author: Axel

 

 

 

 

=====Day 52: Another Mission=====I've lost track of the Keyblade master and the other intruders. I'm the onlyone left in the castle. Everybody else has been destroyed. My orders were toend the traitors, but I think by this point, I fit that bill better thananybody.There's one last thing I need to look into while I'm here.Report Author: Axel=====Day 71: The Traitor's End=====Saïx had a hand in what went down at Castle Oblivion - well, more like awhole arm. Which means Axel was in on it as well.It's a fact that Xemnas ordered Axel to take out the traitors, orders whichwent through Saïx. No specific names were given, but naturally Xemnas knewwho the turncoats were right from the get-go.Report Author: Xigbar

 

=====Day 72: Human=====The longer you know someone, the less you need to speak in clear terms.Everything gets across with a wink and a nudge, a little reading between thelines...When it comes to what befell our late comrades at Castle Oblivion, ambiguitysuits me just fine.But the Keyblade master and Roxas come out and say every little thing thatcomes to mind. Maybe that's human, or maybe they're just special.Report Author: Axel

 

 

=====Day 356: Unforeseen Events=====Our plans never accounted for the possibility of both Xion and Roxas leaving.How did this come to pass? When did Roxas grow strong enough to outmuscle me?What were you really after, Lea? We joined the Organization at the same time,and formulated our plan. At this point, it's just and idle fantasy. Everythingchanged. You, and me.Report Author: Saïx

 

 

 

 

Those reports are just some of the examples of their hidden plan. There are also scenes where they show them referring to their plan too and also when Saix talks about now that their plan has gone awry bc of Axel's and his break up of friendship they will never get their hearts back. Nomura even confirms that Xemnas knew about Saix and Axel's disloyalty .

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Flaming Lea

They still had Roxas before, and could have made him a vessel before Xion was even born. Furthermore, there's no way to even speculate that Xion was a potential vessel. Hell, any member of the original Org could have been mind-controlled.

 

Assuming Xemnas couldn't do it, someone would have had to, otherwise why label Roxas as an option if it wasn't an option? I don't think it was a matter of "he wasn't available at the right time," because that would've been YX's reasoning.

 

 

They openly talked about needing one of the other basically . They just needed to decide who would be better . It could be also that the org got norted during the same experiments that they lost their hearts and got stabbed by AX and he stated he needed them to fall to darkness during these experiments so this makes sense. However not all became successful . Xemnas then also planned to use KH to fill the org with copies of Xehanorts whole heart if he was successful as another method of norting but that got stopped 

They still had Roxas before, and could have made him a vessel before Xion was even born. Furthermore, there's no way to even speculate that Xion was a potential vessel. Hell, any member of the original Org could have been mind-controlled.

 

Assuming Xemnas couldn't do it, someone would have had to, otherwise why label Roxas as an option if it wasn't an option? I don't think it was a matter of "he wasn't available at the right time," because that would've been YX's reasoning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkEG8ztbMhM&feature=share&list=PLody2_ff0Vs7Ia7-Z-U2wQ_nKiqNCY13Y

 

Go to about the 5 Min mark. Turn on subtitles

 

"It only proves that the puppet is a more worthy vessel"

 

There is other scenes where they talk about picking between Roxas and Xion too. 

 

Obviously not bc of Saix bc he was clearly disloyal :

 

 

 

Those reports are just some of the examples of their hidden plan. There are also scenes where they show them referring to their plan too and also when Saix talks about now that their plan has gone awry bc of Axel's and his break up of friendship they will never get their hearts back. Nomura even confirms that Xemnas knew about Saix and Axel's disloyalty .

 

He certainly showed some degree of loyalty, since most of his actions can be traced back to being orders from Xemnas (except Vexen's death, but Axel's own report may imply he was acting on his own). As far as we know, Saix could have been on board with his plans until Xemnas gave him a reason to work for him. Not to mention, he's got second highest seat.

 

Saix couldn't have been completely two-faced, otherwise his status as a vessel would contradict what makes a failed vessel.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkEG8ztbMhM&feature=share&list=PLody2_ff0Vs7Ia7-Z-U2wQ_nKiqNCY13Y

 

Go to about the 5 Min mark. Turn on subtitles

 

"It only proves that the puppet is a more worthy vessel"

 

There is other scenes where they talk about picking between Roxas and Xion too. 

 

Son of a gun, can't argue with the canon.

 

To be fair though, they couldn't have planned the whole "two choices for a vessel" idea from the beginning. Xion would only have been a logical choice for a vessel only after it was apparent that she could absorb Sora's memories, hence the point of "gaining Sora's power." Up until Sora's slumber in CO, her purpose would have only been to speed up the accumulation of hearts.

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Gogo

He certainly showed some degree of loyalty, since most of his actions can be traced back to being orders from Xemnas (except Vexen's death, but Axel's own report may imply he was acting on his own). As far as we know, Saix could have been on board with his plans until Xemnas gave him a reason to work for him. Not to mention, he's got second highest seat.

 

Saix couldn't have been completely two-faced, otherwise his status as a vessel would contradict what makes a failed vessel.

 

 

Son of a gun, can't argue with the canon.

 

To be fair though, they couldn't have planned the whole "two choices for a vessel" idea from the beginning. Xion would only have been a logical choice for a vessel only after it was apparent that she could absorb Sora's memories, hence the point of "gaining Sora's power." Up until Sora's slumber in CO, her purpose would have only been to speed up the accumulation of hearts.

 

 

Not only did Nomura confirm that both Saix and Axel were traitors and planning to take over the org , those reports clearly show that their first loyalty is to each other and their 'plan'.  Yet he was norted that entire time . This is canon fact .In order to get closer to Xemnas and find out what he's hiding they both were pretending to be on board . Part of the plan was to put Saix in a higher position of power and confidence to achieve this.It was all part of the plan.What WASN"T part of the plan was the break down of the friendship which in turn ruined their plans. Don't mistake fake loyalty as a ruse to find information as loyalty to Xemnas. This was all confirmed by Nomura himself.

 

As for Xion , it didn't have to be the plan from the beginning . They realized that in the process she would make a good vessel so then they were like if one doesn't work out the other will. Which just proves the point that they would try to use whoever fit their purpose as possible vessels given the oppertunity.

 

 

 

Axel and Sa�x's "plan"? 

That Axel and Sa�x are old friends, and that Axel dealt with senior members of the Organization in order to move Sa�x "up", were revealed in this game. So, just what was their plan?

 

Nomura: It is a fact that Saix and Axel probably wanted to take over the Organization, however they didn�t understand what they were going to do or how to do it. As for Xemnas, he knew about this betrayal, but never brought it up. Generally, one�s conduct was for the sake of their purpose. 

 

Nomura: It is a fact that Saix and Axel were acquaintances as humans, and that fact might be touch upon in Birth By Sleep.

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Flaming Lea

It seemed more like Saix was lamenting over how unrealistic his and Axel's ambitions have become, and yet he hasn't done anything that for sure could have been a step towards those ambitions. Rather, he's just been playing Xemnas' lapdog even after Axel abandoned the Org., after the slow diminishing of what was left of the Org., and even after the Org.'s destruction, as a SoD. He's just about as loyal to Xemnas is as Xigbar is, and even though I have my doubts on Xigbar's true intentions, that's still loyalty that you can't expect from certain members of the Org.

 

Otherwise, why bother pointing out treachery as a potential reason for failure?

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Gogo

It seemed more like Saix was lamenting over how unrealistic his and Axel's ambitions have become, and yet he hasn't done anything that for sure could have been a step towards those ambitions. Rather, he's just been playing Xemnas' lapdog even after Axel abandoned the Org., after the slow diminishing of what was left of the Org., and even after the Org.'s destruction, as a SoD. He's just about as loyal to Xemnas is as Xigbar is, and even though I have my doubts on Xigbar's true intentions, that's still loyalty that you can't expect from certain members of the Org.

 

Otherwise, why bother pointing out treachery as a potential reason for failure?

 

Nope Nomura words= Canon 

 

 

Axel and Sa�x's "plan"? That Axel and Sa�x are old friends, and that Axel dealt with senior members of the Organization in order to move Sa�x "up", were revealed in this game. So, just what was their plan?

 

Nomura: It is a fact that Saix and Axel probably wanted to take over the Organization, however they didn�t understand what they were going to do or how to do it. As for Xemnas, he knew about this betrayal, but never brought it up. Generally, one�s conduct was for the sake of their purpose. 

Nomura: It is a fact that Saix and Axel were acquaintances as humans, and that fact might be touch upon in Birth By Sleep.

 

 

After Axel left Saix had little choice but to go along just like the other org members. His own plan was lost. Can't argue canon fact.

I'm not denying Saix' and Axel's ulterior motives, rather I'm saying that Saix must have eventually developed some sort of dedication to the the Org's purpose/s, otherwise he really would have had no reason to stick around after Axel left. It's never clarified how long they pursued that plan, but I doubt it would outlast Saix' new ambitions.

I'm not denying Saix' and Axel's ulterior motives, rather I'm saying that Saix must have eventually developed some sort of dedication to the the Org's purpose/s, otherwise he really would have had no reason to stick around after Axel left. It's never clarified how long they pursued that plan, but I doubt it would outlast Saix' new ambitions.

 

====Day 356: Unforeseen Events=====

 

Our plans never accounted for the possibility of both Xion and Roxas leaving.

How did this come to pass? When did Roxas grow strong enough to outmuscle me?

What were you really after, Lea? We joined the Organization at the same time,

and formulated our plan. At this point, it's just and idle fantasy. Everything

changed. You, and me.

 

Report Author: Saïx

 

Even till the end of Days he was still talking about their plan .And I will once again point out that during this entire time period Saix was norted despite being a traitor. Nomura himself calls him a traitor and points put they only pretended loyalty to suit their purpose :

 

Nomura: It is a fact that Saix and Axel probably wanted to take over the Organization, however they didn�t understand what they were going to do or how to do it. As for Xemnas, he knew about this betrayal, but never brought it up. Generally, one�s conduct was for the sake of their purpose. 

 

 

Cannot argue canon fact

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Flaming Lea

====Day 356: Unforeseen Events=====

 

Our plans never accounted for the possibility of both Xion and Roxas leaving.

How did this come to pass? When did Roxas grow strong enough to outmuscle me?

What were you really after, Lea? We joined the Organization at the same time,

and formulated our plan. At this point, it's just and idle fantasy. Everything

changed. You, and me.

 

Report Author: Saïx

 

Even till the end of Days he was still talking about their plan .And I will once again point out that during this entire time period Saix was norted despite being a traitor. Nomura himself calls him a traitor and points put they only pretended loyalty to suit their purpose :

 

Nomura: It is a fact that Saix and Axel probably wanted to take over the Organization, however they didn�t understand what they were going to do or how to do it. As for Xemnas, he knew about this betrayal, but never brought it up. Generally, one�s conduct was for the sake of their purpose. 

 

 

Cannot argue canon fact

I'd like this if I weren't so quota. -___-

====Day 356: Unforeseen Events=====

 

Our plans never accounted for the possibility of both Xion and Roxas leaving.

How did this come to pass? When did Roxas grow strong enough to outmuscle me?

What were you really after, Lea? We joined the Organization at the same time,

and formulated our plan. At this point, it's just and idle fantasy. Everything

changed. You, and me.

 

Report Author: Saïx

 

Even till the end of Days he was still talking about their plan .And I will once again point out that during this entire time period Saix was norted despite being a traitor. Nomura himself calls him a traitor and points put they only pretended loyalty to suit their purpose :

 

Nomura: It is a fact that Saix and Axel probably wanted to take over the Organization, however they didn�t understand what they were going to do or how to do it. As for Xemnas, he knew about this betrayal, but never brought it up. Generally, one�s conduct was for the sake of their purpose. 

 

 

Cannot argue canon fact

 

 

Well he's lamenting. It's not as if he's outright confirming that the idea was possible during the duration of Days; that much is ambiguous, just as much as when Xemnas found out about their two-facing. The two of them could have had this all worked out before KH1 would even begin, theoretically.

 

More importantly, Saix has shown dedication to the Xehanorts/Xemnas even up until now, and that much can't be ignored. Obviously his loyalty isn't for dreams that he's already thrown away. 

Well he's lamenting. It's not as if he's outright confirming that the idea was possible during the duration of Days; that much is ambiguous, just as much as when Xemnas found out about their two-facing. The two of them could have had this all worked out before KH1 would even begin, theoretically.

 

More importantly, Saix has shown dedication to the Xehanorts/Xemnas even up until now, and that much can't be ignored. Obviously his loyalty isn't for dreams that he's already thrown away. 

He's being controlled now. In DDD Xehanort took control of him and sent him after Lea. It isn't dedication. 

He's being controlled now. In DDD Xehanort took control of him and sent him after Lea. It isn't dedication. 

 

If he was controlled, then he wouldn't have the option of betraying Xemnas, something that other Org members did. Saix holds a certain degree of responsibility for his actions.

Well he's lamenting. It's not as if he's outright confirming that the idea was possible during the duration of Days; that much is ambiguous, just as much as when Xemnas found out about their two-facing. The two of them could have had this all worked out before KH1 would even begin, theoretically.

 

More importantly, Saix has shown dedication to the Xehanorts/Xemnas even up until now, and that much can't be ignored. Obviously his loyalty isn't for dreams that he's already thrown away. 

 

What part of Nomura stating they were planning to take over the org don't you get ? Nomura uses the word BETRAYAL pretty damn clear.AND YET HE WAS NORTED. In other words SAIX WAS NORTED DESPITE PLANNING TO BETRAY THE ORG AND TAKE OVER. It doesn't even make sense to say otherwise. After Axel left the org Saix just had no choice otherwise. He was becoming more and more a nort . He would slowly become consumed so yes he would eventually follow Xemnas later. This does NOT change the fact he was norted while he was an obvious traitor

 

If he was controlled, then he wouldn't have the option of betraying Xemnas, something that other Org members did. Saix holds a certain degree of responsibility for his actions.

 

It's been confirmed that norted vessels become more xehanort overtime and will become eventually consumed and then controlled 

 

— What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

Nomura: They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Flaming Lea

What part of Nomura stating they were planning to take over the org don't you get ? Nomura uses the word BETRAYAL pretty damn clear.AND YET HE WAS NORTED. In other words SAIX WAS NORTED DESPITE PLANNING TO BETRAY THE ORG AND TAKE OVER. It doesn't even make sense to say otherwise. After Axel left the org Saix just had no choice otherwise. He was becoming more and more a nort . He would slowly become consumed so yes he would eventually follow Xemnas later. This does NOT change the fact he was norted while he was an obvious traitor

 

 

It's been confirmed that norted vessels become more xehanort overtime and will become eventually consumed and then controlled 

 

— What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

Nomura: They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.

Yes that.

 

If he was controlled, then he wouldn't have the option of betraying Xemnas, something that other Org members did. Saix holds a certain degree of responsibility for his actions.

He was slowly changing from days to kh2. He started to become more and more evil and time went by. But he still had his original ambitions until DDD.

"Betrayal" obviously lost its meaning over time, maybe even before Saix was 'norted. Hell, that may have even been Xemnas' solution; slowly giving Saix more and more reason to uphold the Org. He'd still be in conflict with his ambitions with Lea, but at least he's establishing the reason he'd need to stay with Xemnas for this long. Either way, there's a difference between something being established and when it could take effect.

 

And loyalty and treachery aren't things that can be defined when you're being controlled; Saix had a choice, and he chose to be loyal. At this point, Xehanortification would be a choice, and not one that everyone would follow.

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Gogo

"Betrayal" obviously lost its meaning over time, maybe even before Saix was 'norted. Hell, that may have even been Xemnas' solution; slowly giving Saix more and more reason to uphold the Org. He'd still be in conflict with his ambitions with Lea, but at least he's establishing the reason he'd need to stay with Xemnas for this long.

 

And loyalty and treachery aren't things that can be defined when you're being controlled; Saix had a choice, and he chose to be loyal. At this point, Xehanortification would be a choice, and not one that everyone would follow.

 

Fact : Saix was norted 

Fact: He was planning to take over the org 

Fact: He was still norted despite this

Fact: norted vessels become more and more xehanort over time till they are consumed and CONTROLLED.

Fact: Then when they are controlled they have little choice 

Fact: when Axel says Saix had changed , it was because HE LITERALLY WAS CHANGING INTO A NORT .OVER TIME.

Fact: Being controlled and possessed leaves little choice. You are grasping for straws. 

Fact : Nomuras words = canon 

"Betrayal" obviously lost its meaning over time, maybe even before Saix was 'norted. Hell, that may have even been Xemnas' solution; slowly giving Saix more and more reason to uphold the Org. He'd still be in conflict with his ambitions with Lea, but at least he's establishing the reason he'd need to stay with Xemnas for this long. Either way, there's a difference between something being established and when it could take effect.

 

And loyalty and treachery aren't things that can be defined when you're being controlled; Saix had a choice, and he chose to be loyal. At this point, Xehanortification would be a choice, and not one that everyone would follow.

What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

Nomura: They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.

Fact : Saix was norted 

Fact: He was planning to take over the org 

Fact: He was still norted despite this

Fact: norted vessels become more and more xehanort over time till they are consumed and CONTROLLED.

Fact: Then when they are controlled they have little choice 

Fact: when Axel says Saix had changed , it was because HE LITERALLY WAS CHANGING INTO A NORT .OVER TIME.

Fact: Being controlled and possessed leaves little choice. You are grasping for straws. 

Fact : Nomuras words = canon 

 

Saix and Axel conspiring together, that's confirmed. Saix being 'norted, also confirmed. Saix conspiring while still being 'norted (or at least without true intentions for the Org) is NOT confirmed; that's merely theory composed of two confirmed facts that may not necessarily apply to each other. Loyalty/Treachery being distinguishing traits of a successful/failed vessel is confirmed, the existence of the choice of it all isn't (who's to say that they don't want to be Xehanort? Xigbar's proud of it. Point is it's possible, therefore nothing about this is confirmed). Axel saying"you changed" isn't confirmed to have been a reference to Saix' look, either; it could have easily (and probably more likely) referenced his change in personality, but not necessarily his look.

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Gogo

Saix and Axel conspiring together, that's confirmed. Saix being 'norted, also confirmed. Saix conspiring while still being 'norted (or at least without true intentions for the Org) is NOT confirmed; that's merely theory composed of two confirmed facts that may not necessarily apply to each other. Loyalty/Treachery being distinguishing traits of a successful/failed vessel is confirmed, the existence of the choice of it all isn't (who's to say that they don't want to be Xehanort? Xigbar's proud of it. Point is it's possible, therefore nothing about this is confirmed).

 

DURING DAYS HE WAS PLANNING TO TAKE OVER WITH AXEL-

DURING DAYS HE WAS NORTED THERFORE SAIX CONSPIRING WHILE NORTED

This is confirmed .Not theory .Play the damn game and you will also see them talking about their plan throughout . Don't be that guy Gogo . Don't be that guy ..

 

 

If Saix was willingly norted he would've known what was really going on but he did not . Thats why he and axel did not trust Xemnas and knew he was hiding something- thats why they wanted to take over . Why be voluntarily norted so you can be controlled when you don't trust the guy in charge and think hes lying ? Which he obviously was . You aren't making any sense at all now. Also i never said Axel was referencing his look . I'm talking about personality- which would clearly be affected by being norted more and more overtime. Braig was in on this plan before the org was ever made in BBS . We were shown this. There is no proof however Saix was . Everything that happened during days points otherwise. You are the one using your own speculation on a game you never finished acting like you know what Saix was doing when Nomura himself and game canon prove otherwise.

DURING DAYS HE WAS PLANNING TO TAKE OVER WITH AXEL-

DURING DAYS HE WAS NORTED THERFORE SAIX CONSPIRING WHILE NORTED

This is confirmed .Not theory .Play the damn game and you will also see them talking about their plan throughout . Don't be that guy Gogo . Don't be that guy ..

 

That's really all I need, because those quotes in particular don't seem like they would sound ambiguous. I could go on about Saix still possibly developing a firm stance with the Org by then, but I'll save that for later.

 

]If Saix was willingly norted he would've known what was really going on but he did not . Thats why he and axel did not trust Xemnas and knew he was hiding something- thats why they wanted to take over .

Xemnas could have promised him something, just like MX convinced Braig. All the Xehanorts have sly tongues. Whatever it was could have been the reason Saix stuck all the way until now. It's essentially like your idea of him losing choice, but it's still just as applicable, if not more.

Why be voluntarily norted so you can be controlled when you don't trust the guy in charge and think hes lying ? Which he obviously was . You aren't making any sense at all now.

It worked for Braig. Obviously he's not the same as Saix, but it's possible, and it'd go to show Xemnas as a businessman scamming Saix, and that's exactly something I'd expect from Xemnas.

Braig was in on this plan before the org was ever made in BBS . We were shown this. There is no proof however Saix was .

But there's no proof that he's forced in this, either. Any doubt if his control over his actions could be justified as Xemnas scamming Saix.

 

Like I said, these are possibilities, and in no way evidence. However, possibilities define what can/can't be considered "confirmed canon," so long as they retain a certain level of plausibility.

Edited June 25, 201312 yr by Gogo