So judging you all are caught up from every game we all know technically Ventus "dies" since he did why didn't he spawn a heartless or nobody like sora kairi and riku did....also not to get off topic here how'd kairi's heart get into sora's like they showed how ven's did but kairi we were just made to believe it just happened...can somebody help me clear up these two ends or at least make sense of em

When Kairi passed through Sora before the second Darkside battle her heart went inside of him

 

On to your other question, Ven didn't die- his heart just went into someone else, just like when Xehanort moved his heart into Terra's body his old man Xehanort body didn't become a Nobody, because his heart was still around he just moved it into someone else; ergo he wasn't dead

 

But with Nomura logic the first rule is to not use logic

that makes alot of sense i finally understand the importance of that scene with kairi now and alright but i would agree with you if he moved ven's heart he technically partially extracted it right instead of moving it like how xehanort moved his through terras and put pieces of his in saix and xigbar but ven was more or less dealt the same kinda punishment sora put himself in when he extracted his heart to release kairi's right idk maybe im thinking too much i just feel the way ven died and how he justifies the death with none of which sora and kairi went through kinda just put him in an eternal sleep

Seeing as how his heart didn't disappear, but instead went on to someone else, it wasn't the normal circumstances for creating a Nobody. When Sora became a heartless the hearts left him and he had no body, which is what usually happens when a Nobody was created. Three hearts left Sora's body instead of one though, creating Namine and Roxas, and giving them both a similar appearance to Ven, although it's mostly shown in Roxas. Ven's own body is still intact, his heart was just sleeping inside of Sora, so no Nobody was created.

There are many possible explanations.

 

Since Ven's Light was still separate form Vanitas' Darkness, even though they were inhabiting the same body at the time. Since this was the case, Ven's heart was still technically pure light and as such, did not produce a Heartless. As no Heartless was created, the body didn't disappear and therefore no Nobody was born.

 

It could be that since Ven was already connected to Sora so his heart was drawn to the other without begin exposed to Darkness. 

 

It may be like LightChaser said. 

Or maybe it's some combination of these.

oh so ven technically has a full body thought he just had the amor like terra did

Sora did save Ven at the beginning of the game, so his heart may have had the ability to switch between both bodies without any repercussions and without the proper ritual (like Xehanort performed on himself to Terra) and that's why his body is just napping- he didn't really die since his heart went to another body that was linked to it, and since it's still alive and well Ven's body didn't become a Nobody because it can still sense its heart is out there and well

Ventus's heart is made of pure light. Only people with darkness in their hearts can spawn heartless or nobodies.

A Heartless is only created when one loses their heart to darkness. A nobody is only created if a heartless is created. Also when you die you just die. Presumably you return to Kingdom Hearts. Ventus met none of these qualifications so nothing was created.

When Kairi passed through Sora before the second Darkside battle her heart went inside of himOn to your other question, Ven didn't die- his heart just went into someone else, just like when Xehanort moved his heart into Terra's body his old man Xehanort body didn't become a Nobody, because his heart was still around he just moved it into someone else; ergo he wasn't deadBut with Nomura logic the first rule is to not use logic

This too

that makes alot of sense i finally understand the importance of that scene with kairi now and alright but i would agree with you if he moved ven's heart he technically partially extracted it right instead of moving it like how xehanort moved his through terras and put pieces of his in saix and xigbar but ven was more or less dealt the same kinda punishment sora put himself in when he extracted his heart to release kairi's right idk maybe im thinking too much i just feel the way ven died and how he justifies the death with none of which sora and kairi went through kinda just put him in an eternal sleep

but that wouldn't have been possible unless aqua that thing to kairi's necklace

[...] just like when Xehanort moved his heart into Terra's body his old man Xehanort body didn't become a Nobody[...]

We don't know that. The "Guardian" is so blatantly meant to be Master Xehanort's Heartless that I would be surprised if no Nobody was created. I mean, creating a Nobody requires having a strong will, and from what we have seen so far, it seems that if you are a Keyblade wielder, then you automatically have a strong will.

 

A nobody is only created if a heartless is created.

Under normal conditions, yes. However, when Terra-Xehanort stabbed himself with MX's Keyblade at the end of BBS, he didn't create a Heartless, and even so, Nomura implied a Nobody was created after that. Therefore, not every Nobody has a Heartless, only those born under normal circumstances. And, as far as the plot is concerned, every relevant thing happens under abnormal circumstances.

Edited January 16, 201411 yr by G-SANtos

We don't know that. The "Guardian" is so blatantly meant to be Master Xehanort's Heartless that I would be surprised if no Nobody was created. I mean, creating a Nobody requires having a strong will, and from what we have seen so far, it seems that if you are a Keyblade wielder, then you automatically have a strong will. Under normal conditions, yes. However, when Terra-Xehanort stabbed himself with MX's Keyblade at the end of BBS, he didn't create a Heartless, and even so, Nomura implied a Nobody was created after that. Therefore, not every Nobody has a Heartless, only those born under normal circumstances. And, as far as the plot is concerned, every relevant thing happens under abnormal circumstances.

For starters the scenario you are refering to no heart was lost to darkness. The only thing that was accomplished at that moment was the locking away of both Xehanorts and Terra's hearts. Also The Guardian is not MX's heartless it's not even a Heartless. Nomura never implied that a nobody was created he just said that is was uncertain owing to the fact that he did not want to reveal who had control of Terra's body at the time. In "KHI" when Sora stabs the "Keyblade of people's hearts" into himself to release his heart and Kairi's, Sora's Heartless and Nobody were born. When Master Xehanort and Terra:Xehanort stab themselves with the Keyblade, were his and Terra's Nobodies not created?Nomura: That is not yet clear. However I will say that the fixed sentiment that remained just after Master Xehanort stabbed himself with the Keyblade was not a Heartless.Point blank a Nobody requires the body and soul of someone whose heart became a Heartless the ONLY exception was Namine who used Sora's body as an intermediary due to Kairi being a PoH. Please show me where Nomura talks about a nobody being created at that time.

That's also what I wanted to get at when terra xehanort stabbed himself there should've been a nobody created or at least a heartless cuz doesn't he have master eraqus heart his heart and xehanorts heart right somebody in his heart had to have perished during this scenario

Also if no heart was his heartless can heartless wield a key blade? Even if its his heartless he serves more like the lingering will than a heartless

Seems*

When Kairi passed through Sora before the second Darkside battle her heart went inside of him

 

On to your other question, Ven didn't die- his heart just went into someone else, just like when Xehanort moved his heart into Terra's body his old man Xehanort body didn't become a Nobody, because his heart was still around he just moved it into someone else; ergo he wasn't dead

 

But with Nomura logic the first rule is to not use logic

Also The Guardian is not MX's heartless it's not even a Heartless.

Wait, wait, wait. What the Donald? The "Guardian" is made of darkness, has glowing yellow eyes, has a heart-shaped hole on its chest, and its first chronological appearance happens after Xehanort cast his heart from his body, which, according to the Ansem Reports, is exactly how Heartless are created. Unless the Reports written by people with knowledge of the secrets of universe are just random, meaningless, nonsensical fantasybabble, how is it not a Heartless?

If it was anything else, it would have been stated, or at least implied, in any game or interview that it isn't. Heck, they even took the time to state the Magic Mirror became an Unversed.

The intention of it being a Heartless is blatantly clear. There's no way SE would have put that thing there and assumed people would think it's not a Heartless, specially when it debuted in a game where, at that in the franchise, there were only Heartless, and since then there has been no attempt, or hint to an attempt, at retconning it to anything else.

 

 

Nomura never implied that a nobody was created he just said that is was uncertain owing to the fact that he did not want to reveal who had control of Terra's body at the time.

 

 

In "KHI" when Sora stabs the "Keyblade of people's hearts" into himself to release his heart and Kairi's, Sora's Heartless and Nobody were born. When Master Xehanort and Terra:Xehanort stab themselves with the Keyblade, were his and Terra's Nobodies not created?

 

Nomura: That is not yet clear. However I will say that the fixed sentiment that remained just after Master Xehanort stabbed himself with the Keyblade was not a Heartless.

 

 

Point blank a Nobody requires the body and soul of someone whose heart became a Heartless the ONLY exception was Namine who used Sora's body as an intermediary due to Kairi being a PoH. Please show me where Nomura talks about a nobody being created at that time.

Okay, I admit not remembering the exact wording. However, the way he said "That is not yet clear" instead of "no Nobody was created", or anything in that sense, seems like "I'm not ruling out the possibility" and appears reminiscent of his "I can't discuss the details now" or "please look forward to finding it out" that he says all the time.

Furthermore, what is a Nobody? It is a being born from the body and soul left behind after the heart casts them away. Now pay attention to one thing: When Sora stabbed himself, his body

. If you look at the scene where Xehanort released his heart, you can see that

, and the same thing happened to

.

 

You can see that all three cases include a heart casting a body away and going to another body, and we know Naminé was born in Sora's case. It seems to me, that creating a Nobody doesn't require creating a Heartless, it only requires releasing a heart from a body, and that creation of Heartless only always happened because that's what usually happens, when you don't bring body transference to the table. If I'm not mistaken, the only one who explicitly (or almost) said "every Nobody has a Heartless" was Ansem the Wise in his Secret Reports, however, as wise as he may be, he isn't all-knowing. Ansem the Wise didn't know everything about the Keyblade, and possibly didn't know it was possible for one to willingly transfer their heart to another vessel. Ansem even admitted that Sora, Kairi and Riku blew away every theory posited by him.

And Yen Sid, whose explanation for Nobodies said "when someone with a strong heart and will [...] becomes a Heartless", even though he has more knowledge about the secrets of the universe than Ansem, he's not all-knowing, as seen when he said Nobodies can't have emotions.

 

Even if you don't believe in anything of what I'm saying about the possibility of Heartless-less Nobodies, well, let's go back to what happened with Kairi. Kairi didn't have darkness in heart, therefore she couldn't produce a Heartless. Then, her heart went into Sora, and her body still didn't leave the Realm of Light, and, thus, didn't produce a Nobody. Again, her heart left her body, went into another person's body, but her body couldn't leave the Realm of Light because her heart didn't have darkness. Now, what would have happened if she wasn't a Princess of Heart and her heart still went into Sora? The closest we have to the answer is Eraqus, whose heart entered Terra's body literally the same way Kairi's heart entered Sora's body, and yet, his body faded away, literally the same way Sora's did, and also did Xehanort's. Think about it.

Wait, wait, wait. What the Donald? The "Guardian" is made of darkness, has glowing yellow eyes, has a heart-shaped hole on its chest, and its first chronological appearance happens after Xehanort cast his heart from his body, which, according to the Ansem Reports, is exactly how Heartless are created. Unless the Reports written by people with knowledge of the secrets of universe are just random, meaningless, nonsensical fantasybabble, how is it not a Heartless?If it was anything else, it would have been stated, or at least implied, in any game or interview that it isn't. Heck, they even took the time to state the Magic Mirror became an Unversed.The intention of it being a Heartless is blatantly clear. There's no way SE would have put that thing there and assumed people would think it's not a Heartless, specially when it debuted in a game where, at that in the franchise, there were only Heartless, and since then there has been no attempt, or hint to an attempt, at retconning it to anything else.

In "KHI" when Sora stabs the "Keyblade of people's hearts" into himself to release his heart and Kairi's, Sora's Heartless and Nobody were born. When Master Xehanort and Terra:Xehanort stab themselves with the Keyblade, were his and Terra's Nobodies not created?Nomura: That is not yet clear. However I will say that the fixed sentiment that remained just after Master Xehanort stabbed himself with the Keyblade was not a Heartless.Nomura words are canon dude the Guardian is not a heartless you can't argue with the creators own words. Master Xehanort did not lose his heart to darkness he transferred it into someone else. Therefore it is impossible for The Guardian to be MXs heartless because his heart is still intact.

Okay, I admit not remembering the exact wording. However, the way he said "That is not yet clear" instead of "no Nobody was created", or anything in that sense, seems like "I'm not ruling out the possibility" and appears reminiscent of his "I can't discuss the details now" or "please look forward to finding it out" that he says all the time.

You admit at not knowing the exact wording of things but come on here trying to correct me on something I did k ow the wording of. That's my first indicator to not take you serious. But anyway I already pointed out that his reason was he did not want to reveal who had won the battle for Terra's body. Leaving things open for later plot points is not the same thing as confirm truth or implying an event took place. It simply allows Nomura wiggle too. to retcon later down the road something he often does.

Furthermore, what is a Nobody? It is a being born from the body and soul left behind after the heart cast away.

The definition is very clear when a person with a strong heart becomes a heartless the body that is left behind develops a will of its own and begins acting accordingly. Also suggesting that Yen Said doesn't know what he's talking about does not make your theory valid. Especially considering Yen Sid's vast knowledge and the extensive research that Ansem the Wise did on the heartless and nobodies. Just because they don't know everything doesn't make what they do know any less valid.

You can see that all three cases include a heart casting a body away and going to another body, and we know Naminé was born in Sora's case. It seems to me, that creating a Nobody doesn't require creating a Heartless, it only requires releasing a heart from a body, and that creation of Heartless only always happened because that's what usually happens, when you don't bring body transference to the table. If I'm not mistaken, the only one who explicitly (or almost) said "every Nobody has a Heartless" was Ansem the Wise in his Secret Reports, however, as wise as he may be, he isn't all-knowing. Ansem the Wise didn't know everything about the Keyblade, and possibly didn't know it was possible for one to willingly transfer their heart to another vessel. Ansem even admitted that Sora, Kairi and Riku blew away every theory posited by him.And Yen Sid, whose explanation for Nobodies said "when someone with a strong heart and will [...] becomes a Heartless", even though he has more knowledge about the secrets of the universe than Ansem, he's not all-knowing, as seen when he said Nobodies can't have emotions.Even if you don't believe in anything of what I'm saying about the possibility of Heartless-less Nobodies, well, let's go back to what happened with Kairi. Kairi didn't have darkness in heart, therefore she couldn't produce a Heartless. Then, her heart went into Sora, and her body still didn't leave the Realm of Light, and, thus, didn't produce a Nobody. Again, her heart left her body, went into another person's body, but her body couldn't leave the Realm of Light because her heart didn't have darkness. Now, what would have happened if she wasn't a Princess of Heart and her heart still went into Sora? The closest we have to the answer is Eraqus, whose heart entered Terra's body literally the same way Kairi's heart entered Sora's body, and yet, his body faded away, literally the same way Sora's did, and also did Xehanort's. Think about it.

The three examples you've chosen are three completely separate and and unique scenarios. Out of the three scenarios only Sora applies to what your saying and it doesn't even back up your point. For starters Master Xehanort did not lose his heart. He willingly transferred his heart into someone else. The scenario does not involve the principles that spawn heartless and nobodies. Unless Nomura goes back and changes it we assume the old body was destroyed. Eraqus's is the same situation the difference was he did not willingly relinquish his life. Master Xehanort stabbed him in the back literally. He delivered the final blow intending for Eraqus to end him...permanently. Eraqus would have been dead had he not entered Terra. Again none of the qualifications to spawn heartless or nobodies are met.Kairi is an anomaly as I specifically said before she is the ONLY known exception to the rule. Because her heart has no darkness and is tied the RoL she cannot spawn a heartless. Once inside Sora Kairi's heart was able to use Sora's darkness as an intermediary to form a nobody. There was a reason why Namine was classified as special nobody because she truly was never supposed to exist. She was not composed of Kari's body and is technically not a nobody of standard definition.

Nomura words are canon dude the Guardian is not a heartless you can't argue with the creators own words. Master Xehanort did not lose his heart to darkness he transferred it into someone else. Therefore it is impossible for The Guardian to be MXs heartless because his heart is still intact.

Isn't he talking about the Lingering Will? I mean, "sentiment" was the word used to translate "Shinen" before someone found the English name "Will's Cage" in BBS's files.

 

 

You admit at not knowing the exact wording of things but come on here trying to correct me on something I did k ow the wording of. That's my first indicator to not take you serious. But anyway I already pointed out that his reason was he did not want to reveal who had won the battle for Terra's body. Leaving things open for later plot points is not the same thing as confirm truth or implying an event took place. It simply allows Nomura wiggle too. to retcon later down the road something he often does.

Unlike Flaming Lea, I haven't memorized every word Nomura said. I misremembered and thought he said "I can't say it yet". Also, pay attention to the question and answer; the question made in the interview is basically "were Nobodies created?" and Nomura answered with "That is not yet clear" instead of "No, what happened there is not how Nobodies are created". That seems like he didn't rule out the possibility of a Nobody being created at that moment, and if no Nobody was created, he would have said "No Nobody was created", just like how he said that the Key to Return Hearts something like "maybe not a Keyblade", if I'm remembering this right.

 

 

The definition is very clear when a person with a strong heart becomes a heartless the body that is left behind develops a will of its own and begins acting accordingly. Also suggesting that Yen Said doesn't know what he's talking about does not make your theory valid. Especially considering Yen Sid's vast knowledge and the extensive research that Ansem the Wise did on the heartless and nobodies. Just because they don't know everything doesn't make what they do know any less valid.

I didn't say he doesn't know what he's talking about, I meant that he only knows the normal circumstances that cause a Nobody's creation. I mean, for all we know, he may not even know how Naminé was born or who she even is (although I think he is aware of Naminé's existence, since Mickey would probably have thought Yen Sid about someone able to manipulate Sora's memories).

 

 

The three examples you've chosen are three completely separate and and unique scenarios. Out of the three scenarios only Sora applies to what your saying and it doesn't even back up your point.

 

For starters Master Xehanort did not lose his heart. He willingly transferred his heart into someone else. The scenario does not involve the principles that spawn heartless and nobodies. Unless Nomura goes back and changes it we assume the old body was destroyed. Eraqus's is the same situation the difference was he did not willingly relinquish his life. Master Xehanort stabbed him in the back literally. He delivered the final blow intending for Eraqus to end him...permanently. Eraqus would have been dead had he not entered Terra. Again none of the qualifications to spawn heartless or nobodies are met.

 

Kairi is an anomaly as I specifically said before she is the ONLY known exception to the rule. Because her heart has no darkness and is tied the RoL she cannot spawn a heartless. Once inside Sora Kairi's heart was able to use Sora's darkness as an intermediary to form a nobody. There was a reason why Namine was classified as special nobody because she truly was never supposed to exist. She was not composed of Kari's body and is technically not a nobody of standard definition.

All three scenarios have body transference in common. Let's see:

-Eraqus transferred his heart to Terra's body

-Xehanort transferred his heart to Terra's body

-Kairi transfered her heart to Sora's body

-Unlike the other two, Kairi's body couldn't fade from the Realm of Light because her heart has no darkness in it

-Eraqus and Xehanort's bodies faded away literally the same way Sora's did

 

Now, let's pay attention at one thing: Naminé was created when Sora transfered Kairi's heart back to her body. Now, what would have happened to the heart if Kairi's body wasn't near? If it was a normal heart it would have turned into a Heartless. And if the body was near, and the heart was a normal one, it would have gone back to the body, and theoretically a Nobody would still been created from the process.

One thing you must pay attention is that Sora and Xehanort did literally the same thing. Sure, it was for different purposes, and in Sora's case it wasn't his heart, but at the end of the day, it's still them transfering a heart from inside their bodies to another body.

Now, let's look at a quote from the Secret Ansem Reports:

 

When a person's heart is stolen' date=' a Heartless is born with no sense of self, and the body and soul left behind give rise to a Nobody.

But what if one willingly releases one's heart from one's body?

[...']

Kairi was exceptional for having had no darkness within her heart. Also exceptional was that her heart, once freed, migrated to a new vessel—Sora.

Okay, first, let's look at the first two lines. According to this, the condition to create a Heartless is releasing a heart from a body, exactly what Sora did, and we know Roxas and Naminé were created at that point.

Now at the last line, a heart transfering into a new vessel is an anomaly.

Now the question, what happens when a strong, normal heart is released from a body and goes to another? We have seen that Eraqus's and Xehanort's bodies faded just like Sora's, and we have never been told they didn't get Nobodies nor that it was impossible for Nobodies to have been created at that point. Yen Sid's explanation for Nobodies didn't account for anomalies like Naminé's case, and we have never been told that a Nobody can't be created during a heart transference. In fact, Naminé was created in a heart transference, even if it was a special case.

I'm not sying they definitely got Nobodies on that day, I'm just saying that until KHIII, or until Nomura states "Nobodies can only be created if a Heartless is created. No exception, besides Princesses of Heart, even with body transference", we can't rule out the possibility of then have Nobodies.

 

Also, about your claim that Xehanort's heart wasn't lost to darkness. I'm not sure if this is important or not, but the first thing Terra-Xehanort says is "This heart once again belongs to darkness" and Eraqus's last words are "My own heart is darkness".

Isn't he talking about the Lingering Will? I mean, "sentiment" was the word used to translate "Shinen" before someone found the English name "Will's Cage" in BBS's files.

The Lingering Will only appeared after Terra was taken over. The question specifically addresses the moment when Terranort stabbed himself with his keyblade. The only thing that remained at that moment was The Guardian. Unless you show me where it specifically says or states otherwise I am not addressing that point again.

Unlike Flaming Lea, I haven't memorized every word Nomura said. I misremembered and thought he said "I can't say it yet". Also, pay attention to the question and answer; the question made in the interview is basically "were Nobodies created?" and Nomura answered with "That is not yet clear" instead of "No, what happened there is not how Nobodies are created". That seems like he didn't rule out the possibility of a Nobody being created at that moment, and if no Nobody was created, he would have said "No Nobody was created

For starters leave Flaming Lea out of this she's not here and has nothing to do with this discussion. My point was that you did not know all the details but proceeded to correct me on something that I knew the details about assuming I was wrong and you were right. Not only that you proceeded to correct me with information that did not even apply to the situation I was referring to.As I have acknowledged Nomura left it open as he always does. It does not confirm the possibility rather it allows Nomura to add that possibilty in later games without fear of retcon.

I didn't say he doesn't know what he's talking about, I meant that he only knows the normal circumstances that cause a Nobody's creation.

It's an expression dude. However you did imply that by not knowing every example of the circumstances the information they gave was invalid. For the record Ansem did know and acknowledge Namine as a special case.Not only that he gave a specific reason and set of circumstances on how she could even exist.Secret Ansem's Report 12It would seem Roxas is much like Naminé. Naminé is Kairi's Nobody, but came into being via Sora's body and soul.Kairi as PoH was an anomaly that was never supposed to occur. What happened to her is completely unique and is the only exception. Even Ansem did not refer Namine as a true nobody but rather called her a witch emphasizing the unique conditions of her birth.

All three scenarios have body transference in common. Let's see:-Eraqus transferred his heart to Terra's body-Xehanort transferred his heart to Terra's body-Kairi transfered her heart to Sora's body-Unlike the other two, Kairi's body couldn't fade from the Realm of Light because her heart has no darkness in it-Eraqus and Xehanort's bodies faded away literally the same way Sora's did

Common denominators different equations. The only comparitive scenarios are Eraqus and Xehanort im the fact that they willing transferred themselves into another vessel. Eraqus's body was destroyed the only thing that saved his existence was the fact he transferred his heart into another vessel.The circumstances around Master Xehanort's body is left unclear however until Nomura elaborates further in that circumstance I can't ignore previously given rules and say it became a nobody. You can say its a possibility but without evidence to back it up its very hard to argue that case. Xion's body dissapeared into the light as did Vanitas does that mean they produced nobodies. You have to give me a little more to go on then the possibilities.

Now, let's pay attention at one thing: Naminé was created when Sora transfered Kairi's heart back to her body. Now, what would have happened to the heart if Kairi's body wasn't near? If it was a normal heart it would have turned into a Heartless. And if the body was near, and the heart was a normal one, it would have gone back to the body, and theoretically a Nobody would still been created from the process.

This doesn't even make sense and there is two reasons why. One you are manipulating the scenario to match your theory. The scenario you suggest did not occur and does not apply.Two the body does not have to be reunited with the heart. Case in point none of the nobodies were anywhere near their hearts when they were recompleted. Even if for some reason the heart was unable to join with the body it would remain suspended within Kingdom Hearts until the body became available. In the event that the body is destroyed before that can occur then then it is implied that the heart will be lost also.

One thing you must pay attention is that Sora and Xehanort did literally the same thing.Sure, it was for different purposes, and in Sora's case it wasn't his heart, but at the end of the day, it's still them transfering a heart from inside their bodies to another body.

No they didn't the only thing Sora and Xehanort ever did the same was willingly become a heartless. Sora cannot transfer his hearts into other vessels. Only masters can accomplish this feat. He simply stabbed himself and became a heartless. His body dissapeared to be reborn as a nobody releasing Kairis heart which returned to its body on its own accord. Sora's actions allowed it to do so but he himself however did not physically make it happen. That is a fine difference.

Edited January 18, 201411 yr by devereauxr

 

Okay, first, let's look at the first two lines. According to this, the condition to create a Heartless is releasing a heart from a body, exactly what Sora did, and we know Roxas and Naminé were created at that point.

Now at the last line, a heart transfering into a new vessel is an anomaly.

Where did you get this from if you could provide a link that would be great. That passage clearly refers to the heartless stealing hearts.They do this by attacking the darkness in peoples hearts until they lose them to darkness.Once the heartless turns another heart into a heartless a nobody is born provide the will of that individual is strong enough.

 

Again Kairi as a PoH is an anomaly everything that was never supposed to occur she is unique.

Yet I've shown you Ansem saying pretty much that. Even with the Kiari anomaly Ansem did not acknowledge Namine as a true nobody rather gave her that title because she truly did not exist.

Secret Ansem's Report 9

 

Naminé was a witch who controlled the memories of others.

Most likely these powers were achieved through a special process when she was born.

Naminé is a Nobody, created when a young girl's heart left her body.

Yet she has no corresponding Heartless.

This is because the "young girl" in this case was a princess.

Kairi, a resident of Radiant Garden over which I had ruled, was one of the Seven Princesses that uphold the realm of light.

With no darkness in her heart, Kairi produced no Heartless, and instead of vanishing, her body remained in the realm of light.

In other words, both the Nobody called Naminé and the Heartless—proof of a lost heart—are extremely unstable beings who lack the bodies needed to produce a Nobody. Therefore, they also lack Kairi's memories. One reason for this maybe that Kairi's heart did not return to the darkness when separated from her body, but rather migrated to another vessel...deep within Sora's heart.

That is, Naminé is an alter ego of the Kairi who has directly interfered with Sora's heart. Could this be why Sora and those hearts are connected to him were able to have their memories controlled?

She is a "non-being" in the truest sense of the word; having not even become a Nobody and with nowhere left to go, she is but the most fleeting of shadows.

 

 

Now, let's look at a quote from the Secret Ansem Reports:

 

When a person's heart is stolen, a Heartless is born with no sense of self, and the body and soul left behind give rise to a Nobody.

But what if one willingly releases one's heart from one's body?

 

Kairi was exceptional for having had no darkness within her heart. Also exceptional was that her heart, once freed, migrated to a new vessel—Sora.

Okay, first, let's look at the first two lines. According to this, the condition to create a Heartless is releasing a heart from a body, exactly what Sora did, and we know Roxas and Naminé were created at that point.

Now at the last line, a heart transfering into a new vessel is an anomaly. Where did you get this from if you could provide a link that would be great. That passage clearly refers to the heartless stealing hearts.They do this by attacking the darkness in peoples hearts until they lose them to darkness.Once the heartless turns another heart into a heartless a nobody is born provide the will of that individual is strong enough.

 

Again Kairi as a PoH is an anomaly everything that was never supposed to occur she is unique.

 

 

Now the question, what happens when a strong, normal heart is released from a body and goes to another? We have seen that Eraqus's and Xehanort's bodies faded just like Sora's, and we have never been told they didn't get Nobodies nor that it was impossible for Nobodies to have been created at that point. Yen Sid's explanation for Nobodies didn't account for anomalies like Naminé's case, and we have never been told that a Nobody can't be created during a heart transference. In fact, Naminé was created in a heart transference, even if it was a special case.

I'm not sying they definitely got Nobodies on that day, I'm just saying that until KHIII, or until Nomura states "Nobodies can only be created if a Heartless is created. No exception, besides Princesses of Heart, even with body transference", we can't rule out the possibility of then have Nobodies.

Yet I've shown you Ansem saying pretty much that. Even with the Kiari anomaly Ansem did not acknowledge Namine as a true nobody rather gave her that title because she truly did not exist.

Secret Ansem's Report 9

 

Naminé was a witch who controlled the memories of others.

Most likely these powers were achieved through a special process when she was born.

Naminé is a Nobody, created when a young girl's heart left her body.

Yet she has no corresponding Heartless.

This is because the "young girl" in this case was a princess.

Kairi, a resident of Radiant Garden over which I had ruled, was one of the Seven Princesses that uphold the realm of light.

With no darkness in her heart, Kairi produced no Heartless, and instead of vanishing, her body remained in the realm of light.

In other words, both the Nobody called Naminé and the Heartless—proof of a lost heart—are extremely unstable beings who lack the bodies needed to produce a Nobody. Therefore, they also lack Kairi's memories. One reason for this maybe that Kairi's heart did not return to the darkness when separated from her body, but rather migrated to another vessel...deep within Sora's heart.

That is, Naminé is an alter ego of the Kairi who has directly interfered with Sora's heart. Could this be why Sora and those hearts are connected to him were able to have their memories controlled?

She is a "non-being" in the truest sense of the word; having not even become a Nobody and with nowhere left to go, she is but the most fleeting of shadows.

 

 

 

Also, about your claim that Xehanort's heart wasn't lost to darkness. I'm not sure if this is important or not, but the first thing Terra-Xehanort says is "This heart once again belongs to darkness" and Eraqus's last words are "My own heart is darkness".

This is really grasping at straws. When I say lose their heart to darkness I mean that the heart literally falls to darkness and separates from the body. Eraqus was merely commenting that his abosultion in the light led to himself being clouded by darkness. Master Xehanort is referring to the fact that Terra submitted to the darkness allowing to control his body and supress his heart as was Ansem did when Riku did the same thing.

 

The original poster asked if Ventus creates a nobody and a heartless at the end of DDD. I gave a specific answer based on that scenario. Unless you can price to me otherwise the initial answer I gave remains correct. Do not bother me unless you can provide me with proof to back up what you're saying.

Edited January 18, 201411 yr by devereauxr