First off, I'd like to say that this topic is about KH 3D, the reason the prefix isn't used is because for some reason, whether it be the server transfer of simply my computer acting up I cannot choose one.
Here I'd like to clarify the two main points of confusion in KH 3D, that is, the laws of time travel and what Nobodies growing hearts means for Sora
Before we start I'd like to get a few things out of the way, First, everything here is based on my own theories and is unsupported by official statements unless otherwise stated.These theories are, 1 Kingdom Hearts itself is not only sentient (Xigbar hypothesizes this in KH II FM), but omniscient. I see it as a merger of the real world concepts of God and Heaven (it should be noted that I do not practice, nor do I deny the validity of any religion, this is not meant as a religious statement but merely as a comparison). 2 The functions of the heart and soul in KH are flipped from what they are in the real world, whereas IRL the soul is what makes up someone's personality and sense of self and the heart is merely an energy source to power the body, in KH it's the other way around.
Now let's begin.
Time Travel:
Merlin aside, a few people think that Yen Sid broke the rules of time travel laid out by Young Xehanort. Or that Xehanort himself broke these rules this is quite simply untrue. Let's look at these rules.
According to young Xehanort.
1. First, you must leave your body behind to do it. Check. Yen Sid, as a former Master can remove and transfer hearts. He did this with Sora and Riku for their Mark of Mastery exam. Xehanort expelled his own heart.
2.Then there must be a version of you waiting at the destination. Check, Yen Sid sent Sora and Riku's hearts to their past bodies and Ansem traveled to where his younger self was. The rule does not explicitly state that you have to merge with your other self, you just have to be there.
3. Upon arrival you can only move forward as per the laws of time. Check, Sora and Riku arrived the day of the storm (Day 2 of the KH tutorial) and stayed until just before the world was swallowed. Brown Robe arrived while his younger self was in his late teens (lets say 17) Young Xehanort then traveled through time, gathering his other selves stopping to fight TAV, gathering more of his other selves and arriving at the time of 3D to finish the plan before returning to his original point in time. This does not count as moving backwards but merely as returning to the starting point from which you may travel back or forth again. Meanwhile Brown Robe, after setting YX on his path lies in wait for about 80 years until the Islands are swallowed.
4. And you cannot rewrite the events that are destined to happen. Check, Sora and Riku never altered the destinies of the worlds they visited, but merely woke them from their slumber. Furthermore the worlds (Save for DI and TWTNW because they weren't sleeping and Traverse Town because of it's special nature) were in an endless dream loop as the events that the duo witnessed had already transpired just before they fell to darkness Now most people say that Xehanort did alter TAVs destinies, but think about it. The tagline "Destiny is never left to chance". Xehanort saying that he merely guided them to their proper place. If the rule itself is that destiny cannot be changed, then it stands to reason that TAV were supposed to end up there so that when the time came, they would be able to defend Kingdom Hearts from Xehanort for the final time. Also, say for the sake of argument that their destinies where changed, the Xehanort that changed them was not time traveling and so was exempt from this rule, as all rules after #2 only apply to time travelers.
It's possible that Kingdom Hearts itself may have been subtly influencing events to ensure that Xehanort will be defeated once and for all. So the fates of TAV may have been Kingdom Hearts' way of preserving them until they where needed, while Xehanort thought it was his idea.
The Heart
Now the story that Nobodies don't have hearts is only half true. Yes they don't have them when they are born but, As Xemnas later told Sora, they can develop them.He left out this little detail to make the Organization easier to manipulate and tried to stunt the potential development of infant hearts by minimizing the Organization members' contact with others. A lot of people are confused about Nobodies growing hearts and what this means or Sora and others. As Sora said, hearts are made of the people we meet and how we feel about them. And DiZ tells us that each new expiriance shapes this most malleable part of us. So personal experience+memories+bonds with others+feelings=a heart. To make it easier, I will highlight each character this could affect.
Roxas. While a Nobody can grow a heart that heart takes time to mature. As stated by Nomura, Roxas was borrowing Ven's heart as it never left Sora's body. However it was still dormant so was unable to act as a heart should(i.e. providing a sense of self). Even a Nobody with memories needs time for a heart to grow so even if a Nobody is harboring the heart of another, without memories they have no personalities and therefore no basis for a heart and must build one from scratch Sure Ven's heart could feel, but it could not be used as a replacement for Roxas' own heart. Eventually he began to grow a heart (a process accelerated by Ven's heart being used to supply Roxas with emotions) and, again according to Nomura, the emotional trauma of Xion's demise was awakened Ven's heart enough to allow Roxas to summon Ven's Keyblade in addition to Sora's (much like how Nomura said Axel's sacrifice jerked Roxas out of his slumber from within Sora. Though Ven had no connection to Xion). But as of the beginning of KH II his heart was not yet strong enough to allow him to maintain a physical presence so close to his original self (the same reason Nomura said he passed out in C.O.) much less call a Keyblade of his own. Some may wonder then how Roxas is able to dual wield during his fight with Sora in KHIIFM. Sora's Keyblade can exist in multiple places at once as he and Roxas where both using it before Sora was put to sleep. So of the 3 Keyblades in that battle 2 are Sora's 1 in Ven's and none belong to Roxas. As Sora's Keyblade can exist in multiple places at once Roxas, should he return in KH III should be able to at least temporarily be able to use Sora's
Namine, Much like Roxas, she too is the Nobody of a Keyblade wielder, but prior to her creation Kairi had yet to summon hers. As Kairi had never used hers, Namine was thus unable to wield one for the entirety of her life. Also much like Roxas she had begun to grow a heart, but as she was not harboring the heart of another, the process was not accelerated and her heart was even less developed than Roxas' making her physical form even weaker when Kairi was around. Now that Kairi has used her Keyblade, should Namine return she should be able to use Kairi's Keyblade at least for a time, but will not have her own for quite some time as her heart won't be strong enough.
Xion: The true wildcard. Not only does she not have her own Keyblade, but being a Replica she can't even summon Sora's, According to Nomura the best she can do is summon an imitation. But if Nobodies and Data Constructs can grow hearts, why not an empty puppet? Though she, like Roxas and Namine will not have a strong enough heart to summon a Keyblade of her own or even that of another, she may retain her ability to copy the powers of Roxas and Sora, allowing her to fight along side them should she return.
Riku Replica: In the unlikely event of his return, much like Xion, the Riku Replica will only be able to copy Riku's powers, not summon his own Keyblade or even use Riku's, but merely an imitation.
Sora: If your keeping score, you know that Sora now has 4 hearts within him. If you've paid attention to this theory however, you'll know that only 2 of these are strong enough to wield Keyblades so he can't tri or quad wield. When Sora returns Ven's rapidly awakening heart he will only have 1 heart capable of summoning a Keyblade
Kairi, As Namine's heart is weak, Kairi will be unable to dual wield despite harboring 2 hearts
The Xehanorts; Currently the only known member of the True Organization XIII who can wield a Keyblade is Master Xehanort. Nomura said that the Keyblade YX used was not his own, but actually MX's with a different Keychain. Obviously he has the power to transfer his consciousness to any one of his vessels but only that vessel may wield. In addition, as he consumed Terra's heart rather than harboring it, he cannot dual wield as a heart must be awake to summon a Keyblade. This is why Sora is unable to dual wield before KH II, because Ven's heart is asleep. Because he is suppressing Terra's heart, Xehanort is unable to use Terra's Keyblade, leaving him with only his own
Lea: According to Yen Sid a person's Heartless carries it's former self's heart. It's possible that whatever heart a Nobody manages to grow, if too weak, vanishes upon said Nobody's destruction. The heart freed from a person's Heartless will then seek out whatever is left of the Nobody and join to re-form the original being, leaving the reconstruction with only the original's heart. And so Lea only has one heart, not two. Alternately unless extracted by a Master, when a heart is consumed by darkness, it ceases to be a heart and becomes a Heartless. Heartless may not carry their original personas' hearts, merely the darkness within. If light is somehow returned to the Heartless without the Nobody, they will take on their original form albeit at half power. When a Heartless and Nobody are both destroyed they reunite and the light of whatever heart the Nobody had managed to create joins with the former heart's darkness creating one complete heart. Either way, a reconstructed somebody has only one heart.
Ventus&Vanitas As hinted by his image appearing next to YX in LCDC Vanitas' existence has not been completely extinguished, much like Roxas and Namine, he yet lurks somewhere deep within Ven's heart. Upon Ven's heart returning to his body one of two things will happen. Either the two hearts will merge permanently, or Vanitas will be reborn, either way Ven will only be able to wield one Keyblade, as will Vanitas should he return. They will not gain the ability to dual wield
Now it should be noted that even though they will not initially be able to call upon Keyblades of their own it does not mean that, should they return, Roxas, Xion, Namine and Riku Replica will never gain the ability. Their hearts may eventually become strong enough to do so, but likely not during the course of KH III
Sorry this thread is so long but I felt it necessary if I were to be as clear as possible. I hope this helps to clear the confusion and misunderstanding brought forth by 3D's rather shocking revelations
First off, I'd like to say that this topic is about KH 3D, the reason the prefix isn't used is because for some reason, whether it be the server transfer of simply my computer acting up I cannot choose one.
Here I'd like to clarify the two main points of confusion in KH 3D, that is, the laws of time travel and what Nobodies growing hearts means for Sora
Before we start I'd like to get a few things out of the way, First, everything here is based on my own theories and is unsupported by official statements unless otherwise stated.These theories are, 1 Kingdom Hearts itself is not only sentient (Xigbar hypothesizes this in KH II FM), but omniscient. I see it as a merger of the real world concepts of God and Heaven (it should be noted that I do not practice, nor do I deny the validity of any religion, this is not meant as a religious statement but merely as a comparison). 2 The functions of the heart and soul in KH are flipped from what they are in the real world, whereas IRL the soul is what makes up someone's personality and sense of self and the heart is merely an energy source to power the body, in KH it's the other way around.
Now let's begin.
Time Travel:
Merlin aside, a few people think that Yen Sid broke the rules of time travel laid out by Young Xehanort. Or that Xehanort himself broke these rules this is quite simply untrue. Let's look at these rules.
According to young Xehanort.
1. First, you must leave your body behind to do it. Check. Yen Sid, as a former Master can remove and transfer hearts. He did this with Sora and Riku for their Mark of Mastery exam. Xehanort expelled his own heart.
2.Then there must be a version of you waiting at the destination. Check, Yen Sid sent Sora and Riku's hearts to their past bodies and Ansem traveled to where his younger self was. The rule does not explicitly state that you have to merge with your other self, you just have to be there.
3. Upon arrival you can only move forward as per the laws of time. Check, Sora and Riku arrived the day of the storm (Day 2 of the KH tutorial) and stayed until just before the world was swallowed. Brown Robe arrived while his younger self was in his late teens (lets say 17) Young Xehanort then traveled through time, gathering his other selves stopping to fight TAV, gathering more of his other selves and arriving at the time of 3D to finish the plan before returning to his original point in time. This does not count as moving backwards but merely as returning to the starting point from which you may travel back or forth again. Meanwhile Brown Robe, after setting YX on his path lies in wait for about 80 years until the Islands are swallowed.
4. And you cannot rewrite the events that are destined to happen. Check, Sora and Riku never altered the destinies of the worlds they visited, but merely woke them from their slumber. Furthermore the worlds (Save for DI and TWTNW because they weren't sleeping and Traverse Town because of it's special nature) were in an endless dream loop as the events that the duo witnessed had already transpired just before they fell to darkness Now most people say that Xehanort did alter TAVs destinies, but think about it. The tagline "Destiny is never left to chance". Xehanort saying that he merely guided them to their proper place. If the rule itself is that destiny cannot be changed, then it stands to reason that TAV were supposed to end up there so that when the time came, they would be able to defend Kingdom Hearts from Xehanort for the final time. Also, say for the sake of argument that their destinies where changed, the Xehanort that changed them was not time traveling and so was exempt from this rule, as all rules after #2 only apply to time travelers.
It's possible that Kingdom Hearts itself may have been subtly influencing events to ensure that Xehanort will be defeated once and for all. So the fates of TAV may have been Kingdom Hearts' way of preserving them until they where needed, while Xehanort thought it was his idea.
The Heart
Now the story that Nobodies don't have hearts is only half true. Yes they don't have them when they are born but, As Xemnas later told Sora, they can develop them.He left out this little detail to make the Organization easier to manipulate and tried to stunt the potential development of infant hearts by minimizing the Organization members' contact with others. A lot of people are confused about Nobodies growing hearts and what this means or Sora and others. As Sora said, hearts are made of the people we meet and how we feel about them. And DiZ tells us that each new expiriance shapes this most malleable part of us. So personal experience+memories+bonds with others+feelings=a heart. To make it easier, I will highlight each character this could affect.
Roxas. While a Nobody can grow a heart that heart takes time to mature. As stated by Nomura, Roxas was borrowing Ven's heart as it never left Sora's body. However it was still dormant so was unable to act as a heart should(i.e. providing a sense of self). Even a Nobody with memories needs time for a heart to grow so even if a Nobody is harboring the heart of another, without memories they have no personalities and therefore no basis for a heart and must build one from scratch Sure Ven's heart could feel, but it could not be used as a replacement for Roxas' own heart. Eventually he began to grow a heart (a process accelerated by Ven's heart being used to supply Roxas with emotions) and, again according to Nomura, the emotional trauma of Xion's demise was awakened Ven's heart enough to allow Roxas to summon Ven's Keyblade in addition to Sora's (much like how Nomura said Axel's sacrifice jerked Roxas out of his slumber from within Sora. Though Ven had no connection to Xion). But as of the beginning of KH II his heart was not yet strong enough to allow him to maintain a physical presence so close to his original self (the same reason Nomura said he passed out in C.O.) much less call a Keyblade of his own. Some may wonder then how Roxas is able to dual wield during his fight with Sora in KHIIFM. Sora's Keyblade can exist in multiple places at once as he and Roxas where both using it before Sora was put to sleep. So of the 3 Keyblades in that battle 2 are Sora's 1 in Ven's and none belong to Roxas. As Sora's Keyblade can exist in multiple places at once Roxas, should he return in KH III should be able to at least temporarily be able to use Sora's
Namine, Much like Roxas, she too is the Nobody of a Keyblade wielder, but prior to her creation Kairi had yet to summon hers. As Kairi had never used hers, Namine was thus unable to wield one for the entirety of her life. Also much like Roxas she had begun to grow a heart, but as she was not harboring the heart of another, the process was not accelerated and her heart was even less developed than Roxas' making her physical form even weaker when Kairi was around. Now that Kairi has used her Keyblade, should Namine return she should be able to use Kairi's Keyblade at least for a time, but will not have her own for quite some time as her heart won't be strong enough.
Xion: The true wildcard. Not only does she not have her own Keyblade, but being a Replica she can't even summon Sora's, According to Nomura the best she can do is summon an imitation. But if Nobodies and Data Constructs can grow hearts, why not an empty puppet? Though she, like Roxas and Namine will not have a strong enough heart to summon a Keyblade of her own or even that of another, she may retain her ability to copy the powers of Roxas and Sora, allowing her to fight along side them should she return.
Riku Replica: In the unlikely event of his return, much like Xion, the Riku Replica will only be able to copy Riku's powers, not summon his own Keyblade or even use Riku's, but merely an imitation.
Sora: If your keeping score, you know that Sora now has 4 hearts within him. If you've paid attention to this theory however, you'll know that only 2 of these are strong enough to wield Keyblades so he can't tri or quad wield. When Sora returns Ven's rapidly awakening heart he will only have 1 heart capable of summoning a Keyblade
Kairi, As Namine's heart is weak, Kairi will be unable to dual wield despite harboring 2 hearts
The Xehanorts; Currently the only known member of the True Organization XIII who can wield a Keyblade is Master Xehanort. Nomura said that the Keyblade YX used was not his own, but actually MX's with a different Keychain. Obviously he has the power to transfer his consciousness to any one of his vessels but only that vessel may wield. In addition, as he consumed Terra's heart rather than harboring it, he cannot dual wield as a heart must be awake to summon a Keyblade. This is why Sora is unable to dual wield before KH II, because Ven's heart is asleep. Because he is suppressing Terra's heart, Xehanort is unable to use Terra's Keyblade, leaving him with only his own
Lea: According to Yen Sid a person's Heartless carries it's former self's heart. It's possible that whatever heart a Nobody manages to grow, if too weak, vanishes upon said Nobody's destruction. The heart freed from a person's Heartless will then seek out whatever is left of the Nobody and join to re-form the original being, leaving the reconstruction with only the original's heart. And so Lea only has one heart, not two. Alternately unless extracted by a Master, when a heart is consumed by darkness, it ceases to be a heart and becomes a Heartless. Heartless may not carry their original personas' hearts, merely the darkness within. If light is somehow returned to the Heartless without the Nobody, they will take on their original form albeit at half power. When a Heartless and Nobody are both destroyed they reunite and the light of whatever heart the Nobody had managed to create joins with the former heart's darkness creating one complete heart. Either way, a reconstructed somebody has only one heart.
Ventus&Vanitas As hinted by his image appearing next to YX in LCDC Vanitas' existence has not been completely extinguished, much like Roxas and Namine, he yet lurks somewhere deep within Ven's heart. Upon Ven's heart returning to his body one of two things will happen. Either the two hearts will merge permanently, or Vanitas will be reborn, either way Ven will only be able to wield one Keyblade, as will Vanitas should he return. They will not gain the ability to dual wield
Now it should be noted that even though they will not initially be able to call upon Keyblades of their own it does not mean that, should they return, Roxas, Xion, Namine and Riku Replica will never gain the ability. Their hearts may eventually become strong enough to do so, but likely not during the course of KH III
Sorry this thread is so long but I felt it necessary if I were to be as clear as possible. I hope this helps to clear the confusion and misunderstanding brought forth by 3D's rather shocking revelations
Edited by Isamu_Kuno