This is an interesting point that our friend Villi1997 raised when he mentioned how he fell of the Kingdom Hearts series

http://kh13.com/forum/topic/81223-im-not-into-kingdom-hearts-anymore-to-be-honest/

 

The fact that the series in terms of story telling almost never attempts to take any sort of risks and that couldn't be any more apparent than the fact that any character that got killed off in the series so far has been brought back to life or strongly hinted at their revival.To sum it up it's like Dragon Ball Z where death means absolutely nothing since you know all those characters who got killed will be revived as soon as the next chapter if not in the same chapter(Krillin being a shining example of this)

 

While I haven't fallen from the series I still have a couple of problems with it that led other stories(both in games and animes) to surpass it in my eye

 

I honestly can't blame people if they thought of Sora as a Mary su happy go lucky character as Nomura spent most of his time focusing on stuffing more nonsense into the plot like the goddamn Tome of Prophecy and spend time on other characters instead of spending any sort of time to develop the main characters itself

 

Aside from DDD,everything so far has been going his way and he never went through trials and tribulations that one can relate to.It seems that Nomura want Sora to be percieved as the perfect character that has no flaws and can make friends on a whim.Which is one of the most unrelatable types of protagonists unfortunately

 

 

Sora has the potential to get character development and be a relatable character it's just this plot condemns his potential and make him seems like a plot device that pushes Xehanort's plan back rather than a hero you root for

 

Since the major theme of Kingdom Hearts seems to be friendship,why not make Sora feels the weight of such a thing by making him feel what it's like to lose a friend either because you were not powerful enough to save himher or because of a mistake you've done.If Sora is always to get aaaaaall of his friends back then why should I care about them or feel emotionally attached to them?

 

And before anyone tells me how this is disney and how family friendly they are.Let me remind you that Disney themselves did kill some of their characters in their movies.Mufasa died in the Lion King which motivated Simba to become a stronger king and defeat Scar.Kerchak died in Tarzan and a couple of other examples that proves even in Disney killing off a character can help the plot

 

I get it.I get that Sora is supposed to be the typical Shonen hero that you'd find in most shonen animes but even that doesn't mean he can't feel any sort of anger and sadness and have things always going as he wants to.

 

If we would pick a shonen character that almost behaves exactly like Sora but was done right,I'd pick Gon from Hunter X Hunter

 

 

He's as happy go lucky and simple-minded as you can get from a shonen hero yet that didn't prevent him from going through character development

 

During his journey to become a hunter and find his father he went through trials and tribulations.He felt anger and sadness,he got friends and also lost others and he made mistakes that he learned from as the series progressed.He's not a perfect character and yet you can relate to someone like Gon more than characters like Sora because he got a decent amount of character development that led the viewer to relate to him

 

I know the KH series isn't done yet and that's why I hope to God in KH3 that Nomura would give Sora a lot more focus and character development.No more emphasis on the supporting cast or overglorifying their role while they did nothing substantial compared to the main character yet Nomura is trying to make them more important than what they actually are(looking at you BBS trio,Eraqus and Yen Sid)

 

Another issue is character motivation.So far all characters has the same goal and motivation of "Save the world",which isn't a bad thing mind you but goals like this have been done to death and in a much better fashion in some other stories than this.Characters should have their own unique motivation for doing what they're doing.A good example of this is Final Fantasy 6.Despite the fact that you're controlling over 14 different characters,almost everyone(with the exception of Mog,Umaro and Gogo) have their own unique personalities and different goals and reasons to fight the tyranny of the Gestahl empire and  Kefka.There was the Pawn of the Empire (Terra),the Samurai who seeks revenge(Cyan),the bounty hunter Ninja(Shadow),the man who sought to improve himself to be of a great help for his brother(Sabin),the abandoned boy who wants to protect his friends (Gau),the general who got betrayed and found her love(Celes),the gampler who turned against the empire for his own personal reasons(Setzer)......etc each of them had their own unique personalities and reasons for why they united together to stop Kefka and I absolutely loved that.You gotta show multiple perspectives motivations rather than having your characters having the same one-dimensional predictable personas.

 

 

Another huge issue is Organization XIII,aside from the fact that they really overstayed their welcome in the plot,some of them either are generic supporting villains or just there for the ride,especially every member in the rank after Axel.Demyx,Luxord,Marluxia and Larxene had any reason to exist in this plot heck we haven't even seen their human selves yet.They felt like they were just there so Nomura can fullfill his wish of having the Number 13 being a prominent number in the series

 

I could go on and on and on but the point is:Believe me I love this series and I myself is a fan of stories that makes me think and try to solves the mysteries,but there is a limit to where you can stretch the convoluted nature of a story and the KH series had definitely crossed that ever since Birth by Sleep and the issue got worse with KH x (chi) and 2.5 secret cutscenes.It's no longer about making the player think and be invested in the plot more so than about stuffing as much bullshit into the mix just so Nomura can see millions of question marks flying in the sky that won't be solved unless you go extremely out of your way to figure it out which is an immersion breaker.Seeking outside knowledge should be something that enrich the lore not a goddamn homework that you have to do in order to understand WTF is going on and the insane retcons that occurs doesn't make the job any easier.

 

And finally,and I know I went for faaaaar too long,is the issue with us fans.Most of us are afraid to point out what's wrong with what they see in the series either because they haven't played other RPGs or haven't watched or read more stories or because they're afraid it would ruin the image of something the love and cherish.Look I can understand that and I won't deny that I haven't suffered from the same issue but we have to open our minds and learn more about how the structure of a good well-written plot is by seeking other forms of story telling.It doesn't have to be games that you spend too much money on.How about reading manga,comics novels....etc.Watching animes,movies,TV shows....etc.try to diverse your knowledge about storytelling rather than limiting it to just Kingdom Hearts and you can discover things that the KH series can learn something or two from.

 

I would've listed examples here but I've been talking too much.And with little hope I hope what I've said would be percieved with civil thinking without flame wars..........pfffft yeah right.

Edited November 3, 201410 yr by Smash Mega Koopa

Remember,he needs a total of seven lights and thirteen darknesses so going after Sora is a possible choice since Sora kind of filling the role of both a light and a darkness.Think of it like Terra but more leaning towards the light

 

Both Sora and Terra failed to be masters and the only difference is that one is leaning towards the light (Sora) and one leaning towards the darkness because of Xehanort(Terra).Other than that both Sora and Terra are kinda in the same rank when it comes to the upcoming war

 

 

Both Sora and Terra are major pieces in this conflict and Xehanort would definitely seek them out one way or another

 

But he already failed to get Sora. Xehanort doesn't try the same thing twice.

But he already failed to get Sora. Xehanort doesn't try the same thing twice.

He'll need to get one of them eventually.And Xehanort can be unpredictable y'know.Heck I doubt any of us expected he would use freakin time travel when he became a heartless(I know it's Ansem SoD but he was an emblem heartless holding Master Xehanort's heart)

He'll need to get one of them eventually.And Xehanort can be unpredictable y'know.Heck I doubt any of us expected he would use freakin time travel when he became a heartless(I know it's Ansem SoD but he was an emblem heartless holding Master Xehanort's heart)

 

I think we're better off with him doing something else. Sora being sought by the Organization is old news now. Let's just let him develop in a way where we don't have to sit through the same thing over again.

I think we're better off with him doing something else. Sora being sought by the Organization is old news now. Let's just let him develop in a way where we don't have to sit through the same thing over again.

Well they were seeking Sora ever since they let Roxas join their ranks and created Xion specifically to be a Sora clone,they sought him twice and if they don't have another plan it's still possible to seek him a third time

 

I'd rather them seeking Sora than just having Xehanort being defeated the exact same way Ansem SoD and Xemnas has Fallen.It would be boring if the happily ever after ending was achieved the same way as before without Xehanort trying everything and going all out.

 

 

But I think we should wait at this point.Who knows what the master of zippers would be cookin for us :tongue:

Edited November 5, 201410 yr by Smash Mega Koopa

Well they were seeking Sora ever since they let Roxas join their ranks and created Xion specifically to be a Sora clone,they sought him twice and if they don't have another plan it's still possible to seek him a third time

 

I'd rather them seeking Sora than just having Xehanort being defeated the exact same way Ansem SoD and Xemnas has Fallen.It would be boring if the happily ever after ending was achieved the same way as before without Xehanort trying everything and going all out.

 

 

But I think we should wait at this point.Who knows what the master of zippers would be cookin for us :tongue:

 

It would also boring if we went through the same character arc that Sora experienced in COM and KHII thanks to the Organization instead of trying something new with him, something a little less angst-y too.

 

But still, you're right. Nomura's the one pulling strings and at the end of the day, he decides what happens.

It would also boring if we went through the same character arc that Sora experienced in COM and KHII thanks to the Organization instead of trying something new with him, something a little less angst-y too.

 

But still, you're right. Nomura's the one pulling strings and at the end of the day, he decides what happens.

Well it doesn't have to be angsty y'know,something like doubt would be interesting to see as we've never seen Sora ever doubting how Strong his light can be and that would put him to a good test......anyway I want anything that would make sure we'll never see Organization XIII ever again after KH3

 

 

And yeah,I think waiting is the best option at this point.I made too many theories in my head already and I can't think of any more than the hundreds already floating in my head

Well it doesn't have to be angsty y'know,something like doubt would be interesting to see as we've never seen Sora ever doubting how Strong his light can be and that would put him to a good test......anyway I want anything that would make sure we'll never see Organization XIII ever again after KH3

 

 

And yeah,I think waiting is the best option at this point.I made too many theories in my head already and I can't think of any more than the hundreds already floating in my head

 

As long as its not the same as it was in past games, I'll be fine with it.

My main beef with the series is the way is not so much the plot itself or the unwillingness to take risks (no one has yet to convince my why someone needs to die without it feeling gratuitous), but by the way the story's been unfolding. I'm sure the plot makes perfect sense when you take a step back to look at it all from a wide (and I do mean wide) lens, and view it chronologically. But with the way the plot's been unfolding game-to-game, it's like you can't be complacent for too long because each game introduces a new element that changes our view on a previously established element, feeling like a retcon. Again, it's not so bad looking at the big picture, but you can definitely tell Nomura's writing by the seat of his pants and that's a dangerous way to go about storytelling.

The story has problems when you have to know what is in the Ultimanias to understand it all

Adult thinking can be scary in this aspect. Why not think like that about real world issues? When it comes to this stuff why does it even matter?

 

If you enjoy the story and game that's all that should matter. Maybe it's because I'm still a kid, but I just see the fun in it, yes it has flaws, but I don't dwell on them and just enjoy it.

 

I feel like you guys are asking questions instead of getting into the spirit. When we were small, all we cared about was having fun with the games, why can't it still be like that?

Edited November 6, 201410 yr by KittensOnFire