Double OKP 171 Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, setsugekka said: Hm... Good question. If they lacked mediums, maybe that's what caused the memory loss for them? But then, I feel like the whole thing shouldn't have worked at all if they didn't have a medium like Maleficent did... Weird. Yeah, 'cause they all clearly have bodies(that just sounds so weird to say lol). Nomura certainly has a LOT to explain in the future. 4 hours ago, setsugekka said: Kazusa, his closest friend, was left with a feeling that something was missing. Reminds me of how the Union Leaders held onto a tiny sliver of memory in their amnesiac state. HMMM 4 hours ago, setsugekka said: tbh, the pods strike me as something Kazusa would've come up with. I'm so curious about that machine. I hope we find out who made it. I'm thinking it's the MoM. Like, who would leave those in a data-dream world, let alone ones that work in that kind of world? 4 hours ago, setsugekka said: Remember what Tabata said about Cid Aulstyne? Even though he's what you'd think of as the "villain" of Type-0, he isn't someone you can necessarily call a villain because his actions weren't based on good or evil. From the perspective of the people in Milites, he's their hero. There are no good guys or bad guys in Type-0, just people who are doing what they have to in order to survive and protect the people they care about. Agito XIII and Versus XIII seem like they were going to be stories where there was no true good or evil. Hmm....that's true. (Whenever I see 'Cid', I always think of 'Cid Highwind' from FFVII lol) I just came across this article and it has TONS of hints, from Nomura himself. There's TONS. Like this: Quote What Sora says at the beginning of the game (“they can take your world...”) is said after the end of KH3, and not only that, but it’s supposed to show Sora’s mental state and offer us a hint. This is where Nomura said that that part takes place after KHIII. So....he really won the fight after all????? Quote Q: Are the “ancient keyblade wielders” Xemnas is looking for Marluxia and Larxene? Nomura: I won’t say yet, but it will eventually become clear to the player in KHUx. By the way, the reason Xemnas was looking for the Chamber of Waking in 358/2 Days is because Ventus is an ancient Keyblade wielder too. ??? 'Eventually become clear to the player'. Wait...what??? Quote Q: Maleficent seems to think the Book of Prophecies is inside the box... Nomura: Yes she does. It’s still not clear when she came to think so, but but it will be revealed in KHUx going forward. WHOA. (Now I just got VERY hyped for KHUX lol) Wait a second, that means Maleficent....didn't leave yet???????? Wait....it says that Organization members IX - XII were recruited to search for an ancient Keyblade wielder? Eh? How...how did I not see this article. I don't get it. It came out two years ago but now a lot of what Nomura said is becoming clearer(especially with the KHUX stuff). Edited February 4, 2021 by Double OKP 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Double OKP said: I'm thinking it's the MoM. Like, who would leave those in a data-dream world, let alone ones that work in that kind of world? Hmmm... I'm just not totally convinced it was him. I sort of feel like it could've been there to begin with. Heaven knows we don't know how it was there AND also in Radiant Garden castle in the future. The machine seems like something that's just part of the world by default... But since Darkness knew things about how it was built, that does seem to indicate that he was around to see its construction. That makes me think it could've been the MoM simply due to Darkness's connection to him, but idk... 13 hours ago, Double OKP said: This is where Nomura said that that part takes place after KHIII. So....he really won the fight after all????? God, I keep forgetting about that... That just doesn't make any sense to me, though. If he won the fight, he would've still been in the Final World, right? So then Kairi and Riku should've been able to find him. I feel like the ending where Sora gets crystalized makes more sense as the real ending based on what we've seen. There's also the fact that Yozora says something like "So I guess my powers weren't needed after all" if Sora wins, which just seems like a waste. lol I suppose it's possible that both endings could be true, but I don't know how. Thoughts? If the "Sora wins" ending is also true, how do you think that would work/make sense? Okay, actually, I have another interpretation. Even though the opening scene looks similar to the ending where Sora wins and stands there in the Final World, maybe the part where he actually says/thinks the line came from before that? In other words, it's not part of the Re:Mind ending, just the KH3 ending from before he met Yozora. (The fact that there are two endings is still sus to me, though.) 13 hours ago, Double OKP said: ??? 'Eventually become clear to the player'. Wait...what??? I think we already figured this one out. lol At least where Marluxia and Larxene are concerned, it's because he was looking for his friends. That's why Nomura also mentioned how Xemnas was searching for Ventus inside Castle Oblivion. Aaand I'm sure that had something to do with the hunt for Subject X, too. But Luxord and Demyx remain mysterious... Especially Luxord. I can come up with a number of ways for Xehanort to have stumbled upon Demyx, assuming that he's the MoM, but what about Luxord...? Since Xehanort knew about the fictional world, maybe he knew of a way to access that side... Hm. Until recently, I was thinking that Luxord may have come to their world by his own choice, but if Xehanort chose them solely based on whether he thought they were connected to the age of fairytales, then, uh... ??? Big confusion. On a related note... (I hope I haven't mentioned this one yet. It's wild.) There's a room in The Castle That Never Was that's called "The Hall of Empty Melodies." What a pertinent-sounding name, right? It's the place where you fight Xigbar. It also has this interesting motif on the walls... Those look like white doves on the left and right. Then there are at least six wings in the middle. Not sure what the black symbols are meant to be. They reminded me of Xigbar's arrow guns, but they're the wrong shape. Kingdom Hearts can be seen from this angle. On the other side of the room, it looks like there are some black wing things above the door and some more of those black symbols. Then above that, a very large Nobody emblem is surrounded by three wings on each side like a seraph. The motifs have a wierdly holy vibe to them. I'll admit... I've read many fanfics in my day... There have been a few that portrayed this room as the place where Demyx would play his sitar for the acoustics. It does kinda look like it could've been a stage. Actually, I've even wondered if this room is where we were originally meant to fight Demyx, but I don't know if there's any truth in that idea. So yeah. One of my ideas is that they found Demyx there, and that's why that room is known as the Hall of Empty Melodies. btw, if you wanna explore any area from KH and KH2 from any angle, there's this cool site. 13 hours ago, Double OKP said: WHOA. (Now I just got VERY hyped for KHUX lol) Wait a second, that means Maleficent....didn't leave yet???????? Hm... It seems like she should have left. Last time we saw her, she had just fought off Lauriam and entered the pod. The pod took her out of the data world and brought her to the real world version of the same room. It didn't do any time traveling. Darkness told her that she would need to get into the pod again to return to her own time. Although we didn't SEE her get back in the pod, I assume she did. Darkness hasn't mentioned the box to her at all, right? Sooo... If she actually traveled back to the future, then that means that she must've learned about the box from someone else. I guess it's possible that we'll see another scene that takes place right before she gets back in the pod. Someone else might've come to talk to her...? But I find that kinda unlikely. I feel like Darkness would've waited there to make sure that she was leaving, seeing as how he seemed so determined to control her actions. Anyway, take note of the fact that she had to return to the real world first and then get BACK in the pod to go to the future. That makes me think that the union leaders might've gotten into the pods and accidentally sent themselves to the future without going back to the real world first. Darkness said that the machine wasn't "versatile enough" to handle sending someone to the real world AND the future at the same time. So that's another way the leaders could've lost their memories. By using the machine improperly, it messed them up. Maybe. IN ANY CASE, the gives me the impression that we're going to see how she found out. I sure hope so, since that's something I've really wanted to know. Remember our whole confusion over "the dingbat in black"? lol 13 hours ago, Double OKP said: Wait....it says that Organization members IX - XII were recruited to search for an ancient Keyblade wielder? Eh? How...how did I not see this article. I don't get it. It's probably from the same line Xemnas said in the Japanese version. I think I mentioned it before, but it's unclear whether he meant that he was looking for multiple wielders or just one. The line is totally vague. That's probably why the localization came up with that "keyblade legacy" thing because that sounds equally vague. lol Yeah... I really can't tell... But maybe he really was talking about one specific person. If he DID mean one specific wielder, then... It's not just me, right? My first thought is that he means the MoM. ...But as I've said before, the MoM seems to be the first thought when it comes to most mysteries. lol He's just a mysterious guy! (edit) Man, I forgot what the "I've been having these strange thoughts" line sounded like in Japanese... Quote 俺にはよく分からないんだ この世界が、本当に、本物なのか。 そんなの、考えたこともなかった... It's too hard for me to wrap my head around it. Is this world... truly real? I've never thought about that sort of thing before... tfw everything was a video game from the start... Edited February 4, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 4, 2021 15 hours ago, setsugekka said: Heaven knows we don't know how it was there AND also in Radiant Garden castle in the future. HMMM....but they are obviously not the same; the one in Radiant Garden is a 'complete' machine, it can't time-travel people. I'm thinking that Apprentice Xehanort saw it in Subject X's memory and built it. *shrugs* 15 hours ago, setsugekka said: God, I keep forgetting about that... That just doesn't make any sense to me, though. If he won the fight, he would've still been in the Final World, right? So then Kairi and Riku should've been able to find him. I feel like the ending where Sora gets crystalized makes more sense as the real ending based on what we've seen. There's also the fact that Yozora says something like "So I guess my powers weren't needed after all" if Sora wins, which just seems like a waste. lol I suppose it's possible that both endings could be true, but I don't know how. Thoughts? If the "Sora wins" ending is also true, how do you think that would work/make sense? HMMM....in the 'Yozora wins' ending, Yozora is standing in the Final World, then close his eyes, then wakes up in a car. So...that Final World he was standing in couldn't have been the one on the side of reality. In the 'Sora wins' ending, Sora also finds himself standing in the Final World(assuming it's the same one Yozora was standing in in the 'Yozora wins' ending)...but it also ends with Yozora waking up. To me, it doesn't seem like that Final World is the 'real' one, so to speak. I think if the 'Sora wins' ending is true, that Final World he is standing in is the one where dreams take place(which I think is the same place where the Yozora boss fight takes place), so Kairi and Riku wouldn't have been able to find him because the one they can travel to is the one where [people-who-have-died]'s hearts go to, not the one where dreams take place. So....Sora would still be...umm... stuck there. Now I'm thinking of how Yozora said, "I guess my powers aren't needed yet." and Chirithy saying, "Without your powers, you won't be able to return to the world you came from." Sora didn't let Yozora 'save' him, because it didn't seem like he was being saved(though how is crystallizing Sora part of saving him? I don't know). But one question I have: ...How come they're both [apparently] Yozora's dream? There's something really strange about those endings. Like, in the 'Yozora wins' ending, the 'Oath to Return' doesn't happen; it only happens in the 'Sora wins' ending. And also in the 'Yozora wins' ending, the driver isn't introduced. BUT, in the KHIII Vol. 3 novel, Yozora wins...and the driver is still introduced. (Also in the novel, when they say the famous KHI quotes, Yozora [in his thoughts] says he can't tell whose voice it was; his or Sora's. iNtErEsTiNg) I can't think of a way both are true. lol 15 hours ago, setsugekka said: Until recently, I was thinking that Luxord may have come to their world by his own choice, but if Xehanort chose them solely based on whether he thought they were connected to the age of fairytales, then, uh... ??? Big confusion. HMMMM....Xehanort says about the MoM: Quote I never learned who he was, and perhaps I never will. ...It could sound like he was looking for him. And since the MoM has some kind of connection to Quadratum and Luxord is seemingly from there, then maybe the 'ancient Keyblade wielder' that Organization members IX - XII were recruited to look for was indeed the MoM. Could make sense. Kinda 15 hours ago, setsugekka said: Anyway, take note of the fact that she had to return to the real world first and then get BACK in the pod to go to the future. That makes me think that the union leaders might've gotten into the pods and accidentally sent themselves to the future without going back to the real world first. Darkness said that the machine wasn't "versatile enough" to handle sending someone to the real world AND the future at the same time. So that's another way the leaders could've lost their memories. By using the machine improperly, it messed them up. Maybe. Yeah, that's what I was thinking(but what about Brain?). 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: IN ANY CASE, the gives me the impression that we're going to see how she found out. I sure hope so, since that's something I've really wanted to know. Remember our whole confusion over "the dingbat in black"? lol I was like "What the heck does 'dingbat' mean?" I found it's another word for 'idiot'. lol But I'm really curious as to who they are. 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: Man, I forgot what the "I've been having these strange thoughts" line sounded like in Japanese... ?? WHOA......(that sounds so different) 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Double OKP said: I'm thinking that Apprentice Xehanort saw it in Subject X's memory and built it. *shrugs* *nods*... Hmm... Yeah, that is a possibility. But if that were the case, I wish Melody of Memory could've told us that. Apprentice Nort should've said something like "With this machine, which I built from a subject's memories..." lol 3 hours ago, Double OKP said: so Kairi and Riku wouldn't have been able to find him because the one they can travel to is the one where [people-who-have-died]'s hearts go to, not the one where dreams take place. So....Sora would still be...umm... Ohhh... Okay, I can see that making sense. Not sure if true, but satisfies my brain for the moment. 3 hours ago, Double OKP said: ...How come they're both [apparently] Yozora's dream? I don't think we should think of it as "Yozora's dream." When he's asleep, I think he just goes to the dream, like a separate place of its own like a sleeping world. I'm not sure if it's the same as a sleeping world or just a "world of dreams." tbh, it would make sense to me if both the Age of Fairytales (Agito) and Quadratum (Versus) are sleeping worlds because both of those games were "consumed by darkness" so to speak. In any case, it might be impossible for us to correctly figure out the specifics for now, but it seems like a safe bet to assume that it's a place that exists whether Yozora's dreaming or not. 3 hours ago, Double OKP said: (Also in the novel, when they say the famous KHI quotes, Yozora [in his thoughts] says he can't tell whose voice it was; his or Sora's. iNtErEsTiNg) Whoooooooa, whaaaaaaat... Whaaaaaat...? This reminds me of something I've had at the back of my mind... The fact that Rex actually mistook Sora for Yozora despite the fact that he doesn't look like him. What's up with that? Everybody with eyes agrees that Yozora looks more like Riku. So what is it about Sora that made Rex mix them up? How is Sora connected to Yozora in a way that would make Rex think that they're the same? Like you mentioned, Yozora's journal entry said that he was destined to meet Sora... Could it be because they were both made by the same creator...? No thought seems too ridiculous to me anymore. lol The Verum Rex displays in Toy Box actually said "Square-Enix" on them, right? Well, Kingdom Hearts is also a Square-Enix game. Maybe it's like when I saw Terra for the first time and thought "Is that Zack from FF7?" But why would Yozora question if the voice in his head was Sora's...? That almost makes them sound like the same person. It's a bit different, but it's a similar situation to what Xehanort was experiencing with his dreams about Player. Both situations make me wonder if it's reincarnation. Hm... I'm not sure why he looks so much like Riku, but do you think maybe it IS the same type of situation as Xehanort/Player? Yozora seems so different from Sora, though... But I guess that doesn't really matter. Player also seemed different from Xehanort. Hm. That's concerning. lol (edit) Now that I'm thinking about it, I realized that Sora's Ultimate Form looks like Noctis's Armiger where all the swords spin around him... wtf... How many other things are there that are like this? I'm sure I must've noticed that before, but I probably just wrote it off as a similar gameplay idea because they're both by SE. (edit 2) Wait, there IS more! Is this the reason for the "true/false king" stuff? Sora has always had the throne and crown imagery associated with him, but so does Noctis since he was an actual prince... 3 hours ago, Double OKP said: Yeah, that's what I was thinking(but what about Brain?). Maybe when Brain used it, it did the same thing that it did for Maleficent? But just the first step. So it brought him back to the "real world" but didn't travel through time. Maybe. I just get the feeling that the machine went wonky and did something kinda different for everyone. Edited February 5, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 5, 2021 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: *nods*... Hmm... Yeah, that is a possibility. But if that were the case, I wish Melody of Memory could've told us that. Apprentice Nort should've said something like "With this machine, which I built from a subject's memories..." lol Yeah, most KH Youtubers were thinking that would happen too(including me), but I think that was probably saved for a later game when Lea and Isa's acquaintance with Subject X is brought into the spotlight. I wonder if its possible if Ansem the Wise saw her memories. He suddenly stopped the research for some unknown purpose. At the Dark Margin, when Ansem Seeker of Darkness says he believes he saw the girl's memories, Ansem just...avoids the question. He actually acts as if he doesn't know who he's talking about. Later at Twilight Town: Quote Ansem SoD: You know something and that...is why you stopped the experiments. Ansem the Wise: You are completely deluded, Xehanort. ...He's just saying stuff as excuses lol. Hmmm...what does he know? 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: I don't think we should think of it as "Yozora's dream." When he's asleep, I think he just goes to the dream, like a separate place of its own like a sleeping world. I'm not sure if it's the same as a sleeping world or just a "world of dreams." tbh, it would make sense to me if both the Age of Fairytales (Agito) and Quadratum (Versus) are sleeping worlds because both of those games were "consumed by darkness" so to speak. In any case, it might be impossible for us to correctly figure out the specifics for now, but it seems like a safe bet to assume that it's a place that exists whether Yozora's dreaming or not. Ah I see...yeah, that makes sense. I think it would be a 'world of dreams' 'cause if it was a sleeping world, then...well, it doesn't really make sense that way. 3 hours ago, setsugekka said: This reminds me of something I've had at the back of my mind... The fact that Rex actually mistook Sora for Yozora despite the fact that he doesn't look like him. What's up with that? Everybody with eyes agrees that Yozora looks more like Riku. So what is it about Sora that made Rex mix them up? How is Sora connected to Yozora in a way that would make Rex think that they're the same? Like you mentioned, Yozora's journal entry said that he was destined to meet Sora... ...I have absolutely no clue. HMMMMMMMMM....Yozora wouldn't happen to look like Sora at a certain point in Verum Rex, right...? Quote Rex: Wait! Ah - Ah - You look familiar! I know this. You're, uh, you're, uhhh... Hamm: Yozora! I find that strange. Rex has been playing Verum Rex for months, he was literally just watching a commercial of it, but he can't recall Yozora's name? Was he trying to recall someone else...? YMX tells Sora: Quote Haven't you heard? In this world, you come from a video game. In the other Disney worlds, Sora, Donald, and Goofy aren't from anywhere, just someplace 'far away'. Toy Story is the only world so far that they actually come from somewhere that...they don't come from. But...why? Oh wait...there's this other line: Quote Buzz: Oh! That's right, you're from a video game. Well, maybe in your game, that's how things work...but here in reality, you can't "split worlds." This is ridiculous. ? 'Here in reality'...we can never catch onto Nomura's hints lol. 4 hours ago, setsugekka said: Hm... I'm not sure why he looks so much like Riku, but do you think maybe it IS the same type of situation as Xehanort/Player? Yozora seems so different from Sora, though... But I guess that doesn't really matter. Player also seemed different from Xehanort. Hm. That's concerning. lol Gosh, I really don't know. We hardly know anything about their connections so it's hard to say... 'Sora' means 'sky' in Japanese and 'Yozora' means 'night sky'. In the secret boss fight in Re:Mind, the Final World is in a nighttime version. After one of them wins, the Final World returns to the version we're familiar with; the daytime version. But...why? What's the symbolism supposed to mean? Also, Yozora says, "Why are you using Sora's name?", implying that he knows someone else named Sora(unless the Japanese is different). Reminds me of Xemnas asking Sora if he's sure that his heart and feelings are his... 4 hours ago, setsugekka said: (edit) Now that I'm thinking about it, I realized that Sora's Ultimate Form looks like Noctis's Armiger where all the swords spin around him... wtf... How many other things are there that are like this? I'm sure I must've noticed that before, but I probably just wrote it off as a similar gameplay idea because they're both by SE. Speaking of Ultima, when Yozora steals Sora's Keyblade in the Re:Mind boss fight, his Keyblade looks like the Ultima. Wonder why... 4 hours ago, setsugekka said: (edit 2) Wait, there IS more! Is this the reason for the "true/false king" stuff? Sora has always had the throne and crown imagery associated with him, but so does Noctis since he was an actual prince... HMMMM....speaking of which, I realized that Sora has been the only character who is portrayed on a throne...until KHMoM. Why's Kairi sitting on the throne now? 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: ...He's just saying stuff as excuses lol. Hmmm...what does he know? Ansem the Wise is the one who was quickly able to conclude that Sora must have been sent to the fictional world... Maybe something like that was at the back of his mind because of whatever he saw in Subject X's memories? Based on the way he acted, it gave me the feeling that he learned something that he thought the world would be better off not knowing. 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: ...I have absolutely no clue. HMMMMMMMMM....Yozora wouldn't happen to look like Sora at a certain point in Verum Rex, right...? Oh, that's a good question... RIIIGHT... Yozora said that his current appearance isn't normally how he looks, too... Hmmmm... Ugh, it feels like we're so close to something here. If Yozora had originally looked more like Sora, though, wouldn't he have acted surprised by how Sora looks? Hm. I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Yozora's "original form" looked a bit more like Sora. Maybe he ended up looking more like Riku because of Sora's connection to him somehow...? 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: I find that strange. Rex has been playing Verum Rex for months, he was literally just watching a commercial of it, but he can't recall Yozora's name? Was he trying to recall someone else...? Oh riiight, it was Hamm who said he looked like Yozora first... I think I figured out the thought process here. Rex had trouble coming up with Yozora's name because Sora doesn't look like him. Hamm apparently saw something about him that made him think of Yozora, so then Rex saw it, too. Whatever that similarity was, it might've been SO strong that it caused Rex to think of Sora as Yozora. Depending on how this whole thing works, maybe he even literally saw him as Yozora. 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: In the other Disney worlds, Sora, Donald, and Goofy aren't from anywhere, just someplace 'far away'. Toy Story is the only world so far that they actually come from somewhere that...they don't come from. But...why? Oh wait...there's this other line: It's hard to wrap my brain around it since it seems like all these worlds - including Toy Box - should be part of the same universe. But I think the world of Toy Story is supposed to take place in OUR world, or, at least, a version of our world where toys can come to life when people aren't looking. lol Point is, it's the closest thing to our REAL reality. 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: 'Sora' means 'sky' in Japanese and 'Yozora' means 'night sky'. In the secret boss fight in Re:Mind, the Final World is in a nighttime version. After one of them wins, the Final World returns to the version we're familiar with; the daytime version. But...why? What's the symbolism supposed to mean? Ha, I hadn't thought about that... I think it's just meant to visually represent the characters. Sora meets Yozora at night... It's just fitting. There's ways you could read into it, but there's no way to prove that my reading would be correct. For instance, as Sora walks deeper into the night, you could say that he's walking into Yozora's territory and leaving his own (the daytime). Day and night are always separate... How could they ever exist at the same time? What would happen? Kinda poetic. A little spooky, even. It's like Sora's figuratively encountering a side of himself (or maybe literally another version of him) that he didn't know existed. With a name like "Yozora", it's hard not to think about how he's supposed to be like and unlike Sora. 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: Also, Yozora says, "Why are you using Sora's name?", implying that he knows someone else named Sora(unless the Japanese is different). Reminds me of Xemnas asking Sora if he's sure that his heart and feelings are his... I listened to it again in Japanese... "This isn't what I really look like, so why did you call me Yozora? Why did you call yourself Sora?" Wow, that sure gives a different impression. kfhgdfk THEY GOTTA STOP DOING THIS. Yozora said ソラを名を乗っている NOT ソラの名!! Is this like what happened with Rex and Hamm...? Apparently Yozora doesn't look like himself, yet Sora was able to call him by what seems to be the correct name. I think he must've asked about Sora's name for a similar reason. Maybe he expected Sora to look different... D........ Do you think their appearances are switched around? So Yozora should look like Sora and Sora should look like Yozora? In that case... Hamm and Rex would've been correct... That sounds so weird, but... Considering the fact that these two were "destined to meet" and how their names make them sound like mirror images of each other... Uhhhhhh... idk, I just feel like we're close. These two are connected. Somehow. (edit) I just saw this thread on twitter about Yozora's appearance which kind of goes in the same direction my thoughts were going in, but they make some bolder assertions. 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: HMMMM....speaking of which, I realized that Sora has been the only character who is portrayed on a throne...until KHMoM. Why's Kairi sitting on the throne now? I hadn't thought about it until now. lol But it could be because Luna was sitting together with Noctis on the throne at the end of FFXV. At the last moment, they share a kiss and then close their eyes: This whole time, the throne was the world's most obvious Noctis reference and I was just like Huh, I Guess That's Neat! smh... I'm dense sometimes. I don't know if this is going to be important, but it's good to consider everything! Lightning is also shown in a similar pose as Noctis in the old marketing for the XIII series. Then, from FFXIII-2... Here she is, crystalized on Etro's throne in Valhalla. So, idk if Nomura just wanted to reuse the idea of two similar characters who belong on thrones... Or if we should expect to see Lightning show up. lol Their encounter in Dissidia NT was pretty amusing. (Aaand I'm still thinking about the NT display in Toy Box...) Edited February 5, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 5, 2021 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: Ansem the Wise is the one who was quickly able to conclude that Sora must have been sent to the fictional world... Maybe something like that was at the back of his mind because of whatever he saw in Subject X's memories? Based on the way he acted, it gave me the feeling that he learned something that he thought the world would be better off not knowing. HUH oh wait...Apprentice Xehanort told Kairi that she could end up in unreality...but what made him think that the pods were capable of crossing over reality to unreality??? Huh??? 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: Oh riiight, it was Hamm who said he looked like Yozora first... I think I figured out the thought process here. Rex had trouble coming up with Yozora's name because Sora doesn't look like him. Hamm apparently saw something about him that made him think of Yozora, so then Rex saw it, too. Whatever that similarity was, it might've been SO strong that it caused Rex to think of Sora as Yozora. Depending on how this whole thing works, maybe he even literally saw him as Yozora. ...I don't know why, but reminds me of how people saw Xion as someone else who is associated with them. She's a Replica referred to as a puppet, Larxene calls Riku Replica a toy, in Toy Box Sora, Donald, and Goofy are toys, Buzz is a toy who's taken over at one point becoming a puppet....no no no that's not...well....i don't know...Nomura wouldn't do THAT...right??? 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: I listened to it again in Japanese... "This isn't what I really look like, so why did you call me Yozora? Why did you call yourself Sora?" Wow, that sure gives a different impression. kfhgdfk THEY GOTTA STOP DOING THIS. Yozora said ソラを名を乗っている NOT ソラの名!! Is this like what happened with Rex and Hamm...? Apparently Yozora doesn't look like himself, yet Sora was able to call him by what seems to be the correct name. I think he must've asked about Sora's name for a similar reason. Maybe he expected Sora to look different... ? WHooooooooaaaaaaaa that's so different! HMMMMMMM it could sound like he was expecting Sora to look different, but that would mean he's familiar with someone whose called...Sora? If Sora was just some random stranger, Yozora wouldn't know what to expect him to look like....huh??? But wait, Yozora says, "Sora? You're Sora?". Wait.....he says "Sure, I've heard of you." In other words he's saying "Sure I've heard of Sora, who is you." But then...suddenly not long after he says "Why did you call yourself Sora?". Wait...whaa??? I'm so confused... 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: D........ Do you think their appearances are switched around? So Yozora should look like Sora and Sora should look like Yozora? In that case... Hamm and Rex would've been correct... That sounds so weird, but... Considering the fact that these two were "destined to meet" and how their names make them sound like mirror images of each other... Uhhhhhh... idk, I just feel like we're close. These two are connected. Somehow. HMMMMMMM......but he says that what he looks like now isn't what he really looks like. So...would it even be possible for their appearances are switched around? because that's not how Yozora really looks. Hmmmmmm.....what ARE their connections??? Why does Yozora's fake form look like Riku(more specifically, why Riku's appearance in present time)??? ...The Nameless Star says his heart was replaced by another's. But...what is that exactly supposed to mean? Like, literally his heart was replaced? or he just became a totally different person? He confirms he's Yozora, which is the name the Nameless Star is familiar with as her friend...so that has to mean that Yozora's original heart is in control. Right...? Then what did she mean by "his heart replaced by another's"...? 16 hours ago, setsugekka said: I don't know if this is going to be important, but it's good to consider everything! Lightning is also shown in a similar pose as Noctis in the old marketing for the XIII series. iNtErEsTiNg....HMMMM....Kingdom Hearts, Verum Rex, characters on thrones....wonder what Nomura is planning... 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: HUH oh wait...Apprentice Xehanort told Kairi that she could end up in unreality...but what made him think that the pods were capable of crossing over reality to unreality??? Huh??? Dang, good question... I really wanna find out what's going to happen with Player. Some of the things Xehanort knows could've come from his dreams, but some could've been things the MoM told him. I'm not sure if/how he could've had personal experience with the fictional world unless he realized that that's what Game Central Station was from his dreams. GCS was connected to Daybreak Town "from the outside", so maybe he realized that there are places outside that the pod could theoretically reach if it went too far...? 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: no no no that's not...well....i don't know...Nomura wouldn't do THAT...right??? I told you, I'm dense sometimes, so I'm not sure I know what you're getting at. lol Are you suggesting that Sora could be a replica of Yozora or something? ...Wait, that is what you mean, isn't it? Hmmmmm... But I'm not sure it would explain everything. Regardless, it's a thought worth having. 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Then what did she mean by "his heart replaced by another's"...? I just thought about this so hard and I'm still so confused... I think it might benefit us if we try to go back to thinking of Verum Rex as being some kind of metaphor for Versus XIII. Versus XIII was turned into FFXV. The Noctis of FFXV is very different from the one in Versus. In a way, you could say that Noctis's heart was replaced by that of another. The Nameless Star says that her name and form were taken from her, and that's what happened to Stella when she was completely replaced by Luna. idk if it makes it any clearer, but in Japanese, the Nameless Star says "His form was taken from him, too. The one who exists now houses a different heart." The way that Sora sees Yozora might be correct. In other words, we see what's right. That would explain why he still looks the same as what's on the Verum Rex boxart. Sora doesn't seem like the one who took Yozora's place, right? I'm not sure how that would make sense. But Hamm and Rex think he looks like Yozora!! So what's up with that? HRRRRRNGH, MY BRAIN IS TRYING SO HARD... It certainly seems possible that Sora could have unknowingly replaced someone... *stares at Demyx* ...How are we supposed to balance the similarities that Sora has with MoM-Demyx and Yozora??? Remember how I said that it felt like Demyx could've been the main character of his own story during the first visit to the Underworld in KH2? I can actually see him being the REAL Sora. But then that doesn't explain why Hamm and Rex saw Sora as Yozora at all. So either I'm really wrong somewhere or I'm not looking at something the right way... The visual parallels between Sora and Yozora are the strongest, so idk if I should be thinking about the MoM at all. (edit) Yeah, maybe I should just ignore MoM. That line from the novel where Yozora was wondering if his thoughts actually belonged to Sora is... strong. idk exactly what it means, but that sounds like some seriously strong evidence of SOMETHING connecting them as people. Edited February 6, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, setsugekka said: Some of the things Xehanort knows could've come from his dreams, but some could've been things the MoM told him. I'm not sure if/how he could've had personal experience with the fictional world unless he realized that that's what Game Central Station was from his dreams. GCS was connected to Daybreak Town "from the outside", so maybe he realized that there are places outside that the pod could theoretically reach if it went too far...? Hmm...that could be possible. (Dream...that word AGAIN) Xehanort has dreams of times long past, right? If Xehanort is [Player] reincarnated, then, how come he has dreams of moments that [Player] never experienced...? 1 hour ago, setsugekka said: I told you, I'm dense sometimes, so I'm not sure I know what you're getting at. lol Are you suggesting that Sora could be a replica of Yozora or something? ...Wait, that is what you mean, isn't it? Hmmmmm... But I'm not sure it would explain everything. Regardless, it's a thought worth having. Oh no no, I was saying the Toy Box people might see Sora as someone else(Yozora) because in that world, Sora and his friends are toys....you know what, what I was suggesting doesn't make that much sense lol. But...the idea of Sora being a replica of Yozora is reminding me of that Xemnas line... There is one possibility with this whole Toy Box situation. And it could be because of Donald. I'm not joking. Donald Duck. Quote Sora: Donald, I thought your magic decided how I look. Explain. Donald: Simple, that's not you. ... ...Donald's magic...could've altered how the inhabitants' saw Sora to keep the world order. IF THIS IS ACTUALLY THE WHOLE SITUATION I'M GONNA LOL and if this is the situation, then they made it TERRIBLY vague. TERRRRRRRIBLY 1 hour ago, setsugekka said: idk if it makes it any clearer, but in Japanese, the Nameless Star says "His form was taken from him, too. The one who exists now houses a different heart." The way that Sora sees Yozora might be correct. In other words, we see what's right. That would explain why he still looks the same as what's on the Verum Rex boxart. WAAIIIITTT......his form was taken...waitt...the way that Sora sees him would be correct...ohhhhhh, so Yozora's true form was taken by someone else; someone else is using it, which explains why Yozora doesn't look the way he does. I see. 1 hour ago, setsugekka said: That line from the novel where Yozora was wondering if his thoughts actually belonged to Sora is... strong. idk exactly what it means, but that sounds like some seriously strong evidence of SOMETHING connecting them as people. I wonder what Yozora truly looks like. Whatever he looks like, when his form was taken, why did he take on the form of someone who looks very much like KHIII Riku? Wait...since it is KHIII Riku, then wouldn't that mean his form being taken away and stuff happened after Riku attained his new attire, so during KHIII(of course there's the possibility of time not moving the same but still...)? I wonder if the one who took Yozora's form is someone we know...? Nah, probably not. Makes me wonder...why they said this: Quote Goofy: Say, Riku would make a great action figure! Donald: Must be him! Sora: No! It's me. I've got the black clothes and, uh... ...Why would they say that? Of course Riku isn't a video game character [to them]! It would have done them good to take a second thought as to what they were just saying. I mean, wouldn't they be surprised that someone they know nothing about looks like their friend??? And why would Sora insist he is Yozora when he looks nothing like him??? I seriously hope Donald and Goofy recall Verum Rex... There's also a Gummiphone Kingstagram tweet: Quote Sora: This game right here! Yozora looks so much like Riku. I have GOT to play this someday! #verumrex #yozora #actionrpg #riku #galaxy toys Funny how Sora knows what an actionrpg is... 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: then, how come he has dreams of moments that [Player] never experienced...? Which moments are you thinking of? I thought his dream flashbacks only showed scenes that included Player. 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: ... ...Donald's magic...could've altered how the inhabitants' saw Sora to keep the world order. IF THIS IS ACTUALLY THE WHOLE SITUATION I'M GONNA LOL and if this is the situation, then they made it TERRIBLY vague. TERRRRRRRIBLY ..................As crazy as that sounds, I wonder if you're right. Here's the original: Quote Sora: Donald, the way I look is the doing of your magic, isn't it? What's going on?Donald: Like I said, you don't look alike.Goofy: Looks more like Riku than Sora, don'cha think?Donald: He's cooler-looking than Sora!Sora: Hey, I look like him plenty! ...Like the mostly-black outfit.Donald: That all? Here, Goofy straight-up says that Yozora looks like Riku. lol So the trio definitely all agree that Sora doesn't look like Yozora... The wording is still just vague enough where I'm not sure if they meant that the others see him differently because of Donald's magic, though. The important thing is that the toys do seem to see Sora as looking like Yozora, not just similar. 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: And why would Sora insist he is Yozora when he looks nothing like him??? I don't know if we're supposed to read more into it, but I assumed that he was acting like that because he thought Yozora looked cool and he enjoyed the fact that the others thought he looked like that kind of guy. But what if it is deeper than that...? 1 hour ago, Double OKP said: I wonder what Yozora truly looks like. Whatever he looks like, when his form was taken, why did he take on the form of someone who looks very much like KHIII Riku? What is Riku's connection to Yozora...? He was the one Yozora was watching from a distance in his dreams. I've seen people say that they think the Star Girl looks like an older version of Namine in the Verum Rex commercial. I dunno if Namine is going to end up being Riku's love interest or anything, but he was the one who went to pick her up at the end of KH3, so maybe there's a connection there... Namine was a star in the Final World like that Star Girl, too... Wait, who took the Star Girl's form? ......We never found out why Namine looks different from Kairi, did we? Wuh-oh. One of the things that confuses me the most is... If the real Yozora doesn't look the way he's supposed to, then why does the version of him on the Verum Rex boxart look the same way he does? Is it just a matter of perception? Did the boxart also change to look the way he currently does? I wonder if Sora and Riku are swapped around somehow. We already know that Riku was the one who was actually destined to receive the keyblade, but it went to Sora instead because Riku fell to darkness at the beginning of KH1. That's one of the things Xemnas even reiterated in that scene in The Grid... (edit) As I sit and think about this, the less sense it makes. lol Does it even feel fair to think that Namine "took everything" from the Star Girl? I know it would've been beyond her control if something like that happened, but does the girl really deserve more pressure like that after everything she's already been through? kjhgjgh Hopefully that's not right. Edited February 6, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, setsugekka said: Which moments are you thinking of? I thought his dream flashbacks only showed scenes that included Player. There's one scene when the Dark Road team are at Wonderland after defeating the Reaper-looking Heartless. They were discussing about darkness. Xehanort recalled the scene where Brain reveals that Ven's name wasn't on the list, then he and Eraqus repeated what Brain had said("Darkness can hide anywhere. Even inside someone."). But...[Player] wasn't present at that scene. They were in the Wreck-it-Ralph world at that time... 2 hours ago, setsugekka said: So the trio definitely all agree that Sora doesn't look like Yozora... The wording is still just vague enough where I'm not sure if they meant that the others see him differently because of Donald's magic, though. The important thing is that the toys do seem to see Sora as looking like Yozora, not just similar. Yeah.......aaah, but if it actually is just Donald's magic...?? It actually wouldn't be the first time Donald's done that before. His magic effects how they look so as to not make them suspicious. In this case, it would be to prevent suspicion that Andy's mom didn't buy them. I think. But then...how come Donald, Goofy, Sora, and us see Sora as normal? HMMMMM 2 hours ago, setsugekka said: I don't know if we're supposed to read more into it, but I assumed that he was acting like that because he thought Yozora looked cool and he enjoyed the fact that the others thought he looked like that kind of guy. But what if it is deeper than that...? That's the initial impression I got but...I just find it really weird for him to do that. Yozora looks absolutely nothing like Sora. I mean, if I were in Sora's situation, I would be like: "Wait...THAT's how Woody and the others see me? I don't even look like him! Weird." I don't know... 2 hours ago, setsugekka said: I dunno if Namine is going to end up being Riku's love interest or anything, but he was the one who went to pick her up at the end of KH3, so maybe there's a connection there... Nomura said that in picking up Naminé from Radiant Garden, Riku was acting on Replica Riku’s wishes, and that the bond between Naminé and Replica Riku can be strongly felt. 2 hours ago, setsugekka said: One of the things that confuses me the most is... If the real Yozora doesn't look the way he's supposed to, then why does the version of him on the Verum Rex boxart look the same way he does? Is it just a matter of perception? Did the boxart also change to look the way he currently does? Hmmm....HMMMM....now I just got confused lol. ...Whoa, I never thought about that. I honestly have no clue. Unless, unreality is actually unreality and someone imagined up the story of Verum Rex and imagined up someone taking Yozora's form......but that doesn't sound like something that would happen. 2 hours ago, setsugekka said: Does it even feel fair to think that Namine "took everything" from the Star Girl? I know it would've been beyond her control if something like that happened, but does the girl really deserve more pressure like that after everything she's already been through? kjhgjgh Hopefully that's not right. ...Is that even possible? In KHMoM, the Fairy Godmother explains that the Nameless Star's form was taken, then she managed to make her way to the Final World, which would mean that the event where her form was taken took place in unreality. Also, Naminé can't travel between reality and unreality(at least I don't think so...). I find it highly unlikely she would do such a thing. Edited February 6, 2021 by Double OKP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 6, 2021 21 minutes ago, Double OKP said: Xehanort recalled the scene where Brain reveals that Ven's name wasn't on the list, then he and Eraqus repeated what Brain had said("Darkness can hide anywhere. Even inside someone."). But...[Player] wasn't present at that scene. They were in the Wreck-it-Ralph world at that time... Ohhhhh... idk, maybe he heard about it from them later? I actually took that to be a flashback for our benefit, not necessarily a memory he was having. lol I seriously didn't even think about it. But you could be right. 23 minutes ago, Double OKP said: But then...how come Donald, Goofy, Sora, and us see Sora as normal? HMMMMM Maybe we don't. Maybe there is no "normal." As a wise man once said... Maybe everyone's appearances are like the black box. The way Xigbar described it, it made it sound like it could look different to everyone who sees it. So maybe that's an idea that applies to more than just the box. I'd be kind of annoyed by that, though... I feel like that could be used as an excuse to change anyone's appearances and/or identities without explanation. ? 30 minutes ago, Double OKP said: I mean, if I were in Sora's situation, I would be like: "Wait...THAT's how Woody and the others see me? I don't even look like him! Weird." I don't know... Well, I think Sora was trying to be a little careful to protect the world order. That's why he quietly asked Donald about his magic. Even though he didn't think he looked like Yozora, he didn't want the toys to get too suspicious. If he kept insisting that he didn't look like him, that would've made things more difficult than they needed to be, so it was to his benefit to let them believe what they wanted. 32 minutes ago, Double OKP said: Nomura said that in picking up Naminé from Radiant Garden, Riku was acting on Replica Riku’s wishes, and that the bond between Naminé and Replica Riku can be strongly felt. Oh yeah... ...Is Repliku just plain gone now? Has Riku taken his place? I kinda hate that. lol I think that might be what's going on, though... It's not like I expect KH to ever turn into an in-depth love story or anything, but I think some feelings could be implied. In this case, I feel like Repliku/Namine is what we were meant to expect, so it just feels WEIRD AND WRONG if Riku were to end up with Namine. Just when Repliku was seen as his own person... The real Riku steps in to take his place. Feels bad. Nomura probably doesn't have any further ideas for Repliku, though. But ugh, I'm like... Just give him his own replica body and then let him hang out at the Radiant Garden castle or something. He doesn't have to be in any scenes. lmao Just let him be a separate guy. ...But the way he faded away makes me think that he's dead now. RIP. ? I just really hate that trope where it's like "the girl's former love gave his blessing to the new guy before he died, so now it's fine if he dates her, so you shouldn't have any problem with it either, viewer! See, it's HONORABLE!" 46 minutes ago, Double OKP said: ...Is that even possible? In KHMoM, the Fairy Godmother explains that the Nameless Star's form was taken, then she managed to make her way to the Final World, which would mean that the event where her form was taken took place in unreality. Also, Naminé can't travel between reality and unreality(at least I don't think so...). I find it highly unlikely she would do such a thing. I'm not saying that she did it consciously or intentionally. More like, her coming into existence is what stole the Star Girl's appearance from her. But the Star Girl lost everything, even her name, so would that make her name "Namine"? lol Yeeeah, this feels unlikely... I think I was closer when I was assuming that there's another new girl who's supposed to be "Luna" who took her place. Still, the visual similarity between Riku/Namine and Noctis/Stella makes me raise an eyebrow... I wonder how "dreams" are supposed to factor into this. What if Yozora was "dreaming" of Sora in the same way that Xehanort was dreaming of Player, except Yozora actually had the ability to go into his dream to meet Sora...? That would give them a connection and possibly explain why Yozora ended up looking like someone Sora knows. Like, Yozora had his own appearance, but then that connection made him look like Riku when his form was stolen. So it's like how Zell, Roche, Gippal, Jack, Demyx, and MoM all look and feel similar, but they come from different games/worlds. They could be like parallel world versions of each other. Could still be like reincarnation in a way if the life experiences from one world get carried over to the next, like in Xehanort's case. 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, setsugekka said: As a wise man once said... ? That actually could be the case...but that's a little too confusing. For me, at least. lol 22 minutes ago, setsugekka said: Oh yeah... ...Is Repliku just plain gone now? Has Riku taken his place? I kinda hate that. lol I think that might be what's going on, though... Oh I forgot! In the novel, there's this line after he vanishes: Quote She was special to me. And now I can finally be my own person. Me, and no one else. The two boys couldn't hear the words, but they could feel them. ? Though, I wonder what he means by this...? 22 minutes ago, setsugekka said: What if Yozora was "dreaming" of Sora in the same way that Xehanort was dreaming of Player, except Yozora actually had the ability to go into his dream to meet Sora...? That would give them a connection and possibly explain why Yozora ended up looking like someone Sora knows. Like, Yozora had his own appearance, but then that connection made him look like Riku when his form was stolen. So it's like how Zell, Roche, Gippal, Jack, Demyx, and MoM all look and feel similar, but they come from different games/worlds. They could be like parallel world versions of each other. Could still be like reincarnation in a way if the life experiences from one world get carried over to the next, like in Xehanort's case. That would make sense....all this Yozora stuff is very confusing lol Edit: The MoM says the Keyblade War started when he was a boy. Then he says it was still going on right at that very moment. But...the wielders of Daybreak Town weren't fighting the actual darkness. What did he mean...? Edited February 6, 2021 by Double OKP 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Double OKP said: Though, I wonder what he means by this...? Yeeeeah... You mean, why does he say that he can finally be his own person? Hmm... I take it to mean that the choice he made to give the replica to Namine was a choice that only he could've made, so that makes him unique as a person. And then he died. xfkjhgflk That's kind of a common trope. I've seen it, like, four or five times in FFIV. "I have to do this..." "But you're going to die!" "There's no other way. I'm the only one who can do it. Remember my sacrifice..." Bruh, they could've just made another replica... Come on... 13 hours ago, Double OKP said: The MoM says the Keyblade War started when he was a boy. Then he says it was still going on right at that very moment. But...the wielders of Daybreak Town weren't fighting the actual darkness. What did he mean...? I assume it's because of non-linear time. There could have been another world line (or many world lines) where the war was currently taking place. It reminds me of how, in what was supposed to be the THIRD cycle of Agito, Arecia speaks as though she's already seen the Spiral repeat millions of times. Quote Arecia: It looks like the cadets have begun the final battle for their survival. Arecia: Struggle until you can struggle no more. And then, this time… Rise up to Agito. Miyu: Mother. Isn’t it a little too early for Tempus Finis to be awoken? Arecia: There should be enough vessels to withstand the trials. Arecia: The battle between humans is over. If Agito still doesn’t appear, then my experiment will end here. Arecia: This time, the world will end. Miyu: Not the Spiral, but… the world itself? Is this your will as the Mother Creator? Arecia: If an experiment fails no matter how many millions of times it’s repeated, then it’s time to abandon the experiment itself. Arecia: This might just be that time. Arecia: I wonder if it could be said that a possibility still exists in Orience. Miyu: …Then, with my own hands, I’ll be the one who determines whether Agito was born in the world this time.>The surroundings rumble and it sounds like something is activated. Arecia: …Indeed, that was your role this time, wasn’t it. Rursan l'Cie, the Judge. Arecia: I wonder when exactly you began cooperating with me…?>Miyu’s eyes turn purple and the purple l'Cie brand appears over one of her eyes. Judge Myuria: I believe… in the people who lived with me in this world. Arecia: Is that so? I hope the souls of the humans in this cycle can fulfill those expectations. Also, gotta love the whole "If y'all fail this time, I'm just straight-up ending the world for good" attitude. After that ending, that's when Tohno and Lean were sent off to basically do the same thing as Luxu. It sounds like Arecia had already seen ALL of the cycles, but she let Tohno and Lean traverse them in the hope of finding Agito in one of them. Unlike her, they're human, so they had the ability to notice things that she might've otherwise overlooked. I translated this one interview a while back. I think it's worth seeing: Quote Interviewer: Before, you were talking about “one arc” and “two arcs”, but if Agito has a regular release where the story progresses toward the ending, it has to loop around from the beginning each time, doesn’t it? So, from the beginning to the end, that’s one arc. Could you tell us more about that? Nishida: The story is released in chapters. In about three months in our time, one arc of Agito will be complete. As everyone who’s played Type-0 knows, from the beginning to the end when the world is destroyed, that’s one arc of history. During that time, the story changes depending on the choices of the player. In Agito, when the players’ “will” is introduced, history will change from Type-0 and Agito will arise. Tabata: Yeah, that’s right. (laughs) In Type-0, it was said that Agito would be born, but Agito never appeared, did they? Even after the cycle repeated hundreds of millions of times, the Spiral ended without Agito being born. I thought… Wouldn’t it be bad if it stays that way? So, I want Agito to properly be created. (laughs) Tabata: Going forward, history will change somewhere in the future and we’ll head toward a history where Agito was born. Nishida: This is an experiment to find Agito from out of all of the players, and to place them into the history of Type-0. Interviewer: Very interesting. So then, Agito isn’t born from one of the characters from Type-0, but from the players of Agito. Tabata: Rather, it feels like every player of Agito is doing their best to become Agito. Interviewer: What does it mean to become Agito? They’re referred to as a “savior”… Nishida: As a game mechanic, it might be a spoiler if I talk about it. (laughs) Interviewer: Well then, out of all of the players, how many will be able to become Agito? Nishida: Only one. Eventually, out of all of the players, only one Agito will be born to rescue the world from its repeating history. This is how we know that the Agito Player was going to become the true Agito, but the game was shut down before we got to see that happen. When they became Agito, it was going to change the future and overwrite the ending of Type-0 where Class Zero died. But it's hard to wrap my head around how that was going to work, exactly... The "light of the past" might be how KH interpreted it. In summary... Everything is still confusing. But at least having info like this makes me feel like I have an idea of what's going on. lol Edited February 6, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, setsugekka said: Yeeeeah... You mean, why does he say that he can finally be his own person? Hmm... I take it to mean that the choice he made to give the replica to Namine was a choice that only he could've made, so that makes him unique as a person. And then he died. xfkjhgflk That's kind of a common trope. I've seen it, like, four or five times in FFIV. "I have to do this..." "But you're going to die!" "There's no other way. I'm the only one who can do it. Remember my sacrifice..." Bruh, they could've just made another replica... Come on... Ah I see. That would make sense. ...But, it'd be kinda weird having two Rikus on the same side...kinda...(but now there's Yozora. I guess they really like having multiple 'Rikus'. In that case, how come they didn't keep Riku Replica?) 1 hour ago, setsugekka said: I assume it's because of non-linear time. There could have been another world line (or many world lines) where the war was currently taking place. It reminds me of how, in what was supposed to be the THIRD cycle of Agito, Arecia speaks as though she's already seen the Spiral repeat millions of times. InTeReStInG...tbh, the Agito stuff is still a little confusing to me lol. According to someone on the KH General Chat, the script for KHMoM goes more along the lines "Quadratum does not exist within light or darkness". I went and turned on auto translate for that scene(I know those auto translators/Google translate aren't exactly reliable, but just wanted to see) and it came out as: "If it was the world behind, not the light or darkness on this side." Hmmm...so that wouldn't necessarily mean that unreality is void of light and darkness... Then, the emptiness that Xehanort talks about is just something else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Double OKP said: (but now there's Yozora. I guess they really like having multiple 'Rikus'. In that case, how come they didn't keep Riku Replica?) Well, like I said, Nomura probably just didn't have anything else to do with him, so he let him go. I wish Repliku could've stayed somewhere in the background, but getting rid of him would certainly mitigate the fans' demand to see more from him. I don't like it, but I get it. (But who knows, any character could reappear if Nomura wanted. It's that kind of series.) This actually just made me wonder if we're ever going to get to see what Yozora originally looked like... I can't imagine him looking any other way now. That's Yozora to me. lol But it seems like there must be someone else out there masquerading as him, right? So maybe Yozora will stay looking that way and the other person will be a villain...? I don't think it would be the MoM. Star Girl's appearance was also stolen, so there's gotta be another girl, too, right? idk, this is just what I imagine... The Foretellers reeeally don't strike me as villains. They seem like good guys who will come into conflict with Sora & Pals because their ideals will clash with each other. ("I'm right!" "No, I'M right!" That sort of thing.) If somebody actually STOLE Yozora's appearance, I don't think they could spin that as being "for the greater good" or anything. That sounds like some villainous stuff to me. lol There's probably a lot of new characters we haven't seen yet. That's kinda exciting, but it also makes me anxious because it just means that there's a lot we don't know and probably can't even guess about yet. 8 hours ago, Double OKP said: InTeReStInG...tbh, the Agito stuff is still a little confusing to me lol. Oh, don't worry. It's confusing to the people who only care about Agito and Type-0, too. lol The stuff involving the timeline didn't get explained really well in the games, so everybody's like "Uh... We think this is how it works...?" We pretend like we understand so we can sleep at night. 8 hours ago, Double OKP said: According to someone on the KH General Chat, the script for KHMoM goes more along the lines "Quadratum does not exist within light or darkness". I went and turned on auto translate for that scene(I know those auto translators/Google translate aren't exactly reliable, but just wanted to see) and it came out as: "If it was the world behind, not the light or darkness on this side." Hmmm...so that wouldn't necessarily mean that unreality is void of light and darkness... Then, the emptiness that Xehanort talks about is just something else... I'm trying to figure out which line you mean. Ienzo says, "If it's not the light nor darkness on our side (our world), but rather a world on the other side--" I think he was quoting what Kairi heard from Xehanort, so it might sound a little weird out of context. "Uragawa" means reverse, other side, something's back side, behind, etc. You might have a point. The wording does make me feel a little differently about the meaning. Still, the implication is that the fictional world is something other than the realms of light and darkness that they're familiar with, so I think the localization had the right idea. It might not be the same as the emptiness, but it's definitely something new that may not adhere to light and darkness. (edit) I just thought about this word so hard and made myself wonder if this has anything to do with why "Back Cover" is called that... If I wanted someone to show me the back side of a book, I'd ask to see the "uragawa." (edit 2) The clock tower is literally on the "uragawa" of Scala ad Caelum. ...Now I'm just making jokes. lol Or am I? Edited February 7, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 7, 2021 18 minutes ago, setsugekka said: Star Girl's appearance was also stolen, so there's gotta be another girl, too, right? Oh no, I just thought of Ava...she wouldn't do THAT, right??? 19 minutes ago, setsugekka said: idk, this is just what I imagine... The Foretellers reeeally don't strike me as villains. They seem like good guys who will come into conflict with Sora & Pals because their ideals will clash with each other. ("I'm right!" "No, I'M right!" That sort of thing.) If somebody actually STOLE Yozora's appearance, I don't think they could spin that as being "for the greater good" or anything. That sounds like some villainous stuff to me. lol Yeah, that would make the most sense(like, I can't think how the Foretellers are villains. They wanted to save the world.). I'm so hyped for this next story arc lol. 22 minutes ago, setsugekka said: I'm trying to figure out which line you mean. Ienzo says, "If it's not the light nor darkness on our side (our world), but rather a world on the other side--" Oh, it's the line where Dream Apprentice Xehanort repeats his words in the Final World. ...I'm thinking about the KHIII secret ending again. Why did the MoM make a heart-shape at the moon? What was Nomura trying to tell us? He did say there hasn't been enough information revealed for us to understand but still....I'm super duper curious! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, Double OKP said: Oh no, I just thought of Ava...she wouldn't do THAT, right??? I thought about it, but no... Probably not, especially if she ignored Luxu's call. Cuz if that's right, then it seems like she's sticking to her own principles. Besides, unless there's a situation we're just totally unaware of, I don't know why she'd need to steal someone's whole identity. (I guess someone else could've forced it onto her, but that sounds a little too dark...) 6 minutes ago, Double OKP said: ...I'm thinking about the KHIII secret ending again. Why did the MoM make a heart-shape at the moon? What was Nomura trying to tell us? He did say there hasn't been enough information revealed for us to understand but still....I'm super duper curious! Ha... HA, I say! That can't stop me! I already feel pretty confident about Kingdom Hearts being like Etro's Gate. The unseen, far side of the moon is called "tsuki no uragawa." So when Kingdom Hearts appeared, he was looking at it from the other side! ......Maybe! 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 9, 2021 ...There was this line in one of the KHIII trailers: Quote Don’t assume your dreams are just fantasy. If you can imagine a world, believe in it...and dive in. ...Nomura, you will never cease to amaze me. Reminds me of that line in the novel of Sora possibly seeing Quadratum in a dream.... 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Double OKP said: ...Nomura, you will never cease to amaze me. Reminds me of that line in the novel of Sora possibly seeing Quadratum in a dream.... Oh god! All of these keywords! TOGETHER!! There's so much going on here... Because of the fact that it uses the word "dive", a word we've seen associated with dreams in KH, this sounds like they're saying that fiction and dreams are the same thing - or at least something similar/related, like we've been assuming. Dreams aren't just things you have when you're asleep. Dreams can also be your aspirations and fantasies. It sounds like this is saying that you can also dive into those types of dreams and find new worlds, such as Quadratum. Alternatively: Cool. Final Fantasy worlds! 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 9, 2021 HUH that line in the Versus XIII trailer: Quote This is a fantasy based on reality. Kinda works as a description for Quadratum(at least to us, not the KH characters lol). A fictional world based on our reality. Speaking of Versus XIII, I was watching trailers of it and there was one line: Quote The true figure is still hidden in the sleep. mYsTeRiOuS After seeing these trailers I am now curious as to what it would've turned out to be lol. I forgot there's a game mechanic in Dream Drop Distance called 'Reality Shift' ? I did some research on the Joker card, or the wild card(though the Joker card isn't just a wild card). The wild card is used to represent other cards. The Joker is a trump card in the game of Euchre(whatever the heck that is lol). Not to mention that Axel says 'trump card' in the additional Re:Mind cutscene for the Xion, Saïx, and Xemnas fight. In the game of Poker, it can be wild, or a "bug", a limited version of the wild card. The Joker can be extremely beneficial or extremely harmful...iNtErEsTiNg. I also searched up what the symbol in the Re:Mind(it's not even Re:Mind, it's actually Re?Mind) logo was(the ?). It is used to represent a coda(oh wait...is that why the last chapter of the KHIII Vol. 3 novel is called Coda???). And coda has to do with... music. Quote In music notation, the coda symbol, which resembles a set of crosshairs, is used as a navigation marker, similar to the dal segno sign. It is used where the exit from a repeated section is within that section rather than at the end. The instruction "To Coda" indicates that, upon reaching that point during the final repetition, the performer is to jump immediately to the separate section headed with the coda symbol. For example, this can be used to provide a special ending for the final verse of a song. I've seen that symbol in music before. How did I not recognize it? 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, Double OKP said: I've seen that symbol in music before. How did I not recognize it? I thought about mentioning it before, but I thought you would've already heard about it. lol Remember my interpretation of KH:MoM being like a representation of the series as a whole piece composed by the MoM? I thought of Re:Mind being named that for a similar reason, like the coda was his direction to start over from that one place. Since we know that the MoM is, uh, familiar with the titles of the KH games for some reason, it kinda makes sense in a meta way. lol Who knows, maybe he literally came up with these titles and "KH:MoM" is actually supposed to be his signature. He placed his own name in the title... The sneaky bastard... I think I kind of suggested it when I mentioned the riplai preview book, but the title of that book "Re: [riplai]" is prooobably where the idea for Re:Mind's title came from? Since the book was focused on Versus XIII and Agito XIII at the very front of the book, I imagine "Re:Mind" was also a sneaky reference to the Fabula Nova Crystallis. It sounds like a weird stretch, but it also feels like the kind of weird stretch Nomura would make. lol 32 minutes ago, Double OKP said: HUH that line in the Versus XIII trailer: I think there might've been something about that in the riplai book. I'll have to take a look tomorrow. (But I think somebody might've already translated the Versus XIII pages somewhere, so you can try to find that if you're really curious.) 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 10, 2021 19 hours ago, setsugekka said: He placed his own name in the title... The sneaky bastard... ? That'd be super hilarious 19 hours ago, setsugekka said: (But I think somebody might've already translated the Versus XIII pages somewhere, so you can try to find that if you're really curious.) Unfortunately, I couldn't find any translations. So I kinda just realized something. In the KHIII epliogue, Eraqus places seven black chess pieces on Xehanort's side of the board which represent the Lost Masters. But I noticed that instead of the MoM, the goat piece is the king piece. I'd expect the MoM to be the king piece, because he's the Foretellers and Luxu's Master, but it's the...the goat(which is probably Luxu). But...why? I also noticed some things about the MoM's symbol. There's a heart with two wings. But the wings aren't actually the same. One looks feathery and one looks kinda like the wing from the blade of Soul Eater. And: The five crystals(I'll just call them that 'cause that's how they look like to me lol) at the bottom of the symbol plus the wings form...the shape of the number seven...in the Scala language. The Scala number seven seems to be significant to Scala as it appears on flags throughout the town. The most noticeable(no, it's totally not noticeable) and most notable place is on the Clock of the Scala Clock Tower itself. And you know the significance of seven in KH.... And the three crystals that are connected...those parts are also connected on the Clock... The numbers 2 and 3 in the Scala language is the exact same as the numbered KH titles: II and III(it's also in the exact same font...). Number 4 is X. Wait...we shouldn't be expecting KHIV to be called KHX(with the specific font)...no, no way, well...*shrug* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
setsugekka 162 Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: Unfortunately, I couldn't find any translations. It's getting late again and I had a doozy of a day, so I'm gonna have to remember to look into that again some other time. Whoops. 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: So I kinda just realized something. In the KHIII epliogue, Eraqus places seven black chess pieces on Xehanort's side of the board which represent the Lost Masters. But I noticed that instead of the MoM, the goat piece is the king piece. I'd expect the MoM to be the king piece, because he's the Foretellers and Luxu's Master, but it's the...the goat(which is probably Luxu). But...why? Ah, this is something I've thought about with a friend. Put simply... We think that Xigbar is the new active leader. I mean, consider it... If Demyx is the MoM, how much work and fighting do you think he actually wants to do? None, right? The MoM has already shoved off most of the work onto other people. He might not even technically be a keyblade master anymore. (..........Was he ever, really? I have suspicions. lol How does someone who didn't have a master declare themselves to be one? That's sketchy.) Anyway, I think about this song every time I think about MoM and Luxu. Make sure the subs are on and enjoy. lol That it. That's their dynamic! 2 hours ago, Double OKP said: I also noticed some things about the MoM's symbol. There's a heart with two wings. But the wings aren't actually the same. One looks feathery and one looks kinda like the wing from the blade of Soul Eater. Have I ever said what the emblem looks like to me? The Vermilion Bird emblem. I wandered around Scala ad Caelum for a long time looking for any symbols that looked familiar. This is the closest thing I saw to the Vermilion Bird. Could just be a coincidence. That might not even be a bird. lol But I think that's part of the same area where the Foretellers' emblems can be seen underneath during the fight with Xehanort. So that's a little sus. Also, just for fun... This is the Type-0 HD soundtrack. It's shaped like a book for no apparent reason. There's only one bluray disc in there. Very strong Book of Prophecies vibes, imo. Probably also a coincidence, but I enjoy it nonetheless. It's very cool looking. Speaking of the soundtrack... I know that Takeharu Ishimoto is the one who composed Vanitas's themes, but I can't listen to War: That Which Stands in the Way (the song from the first Agito XIII trailer) without also thinking of Vanitas. I love how the piano starts out sounding calm and then starts to become more chaotic. It never gets as chaotic as the piano in the MoM's theme, but you know I'm thinking about it. If we get to hear one Type-0 song recreated in KH, I hope it's Divine Fire. (It's just the shorter, more climactic arrangement of the theme, We Have Arrived.) The lyrics of Zero sound more relevant to KH, but I doubt that we'll ever hear that again. lol The rights are owned by Bump of Chicken's record label. ...Have I ever mentioned the lyrics to Zero, though? Ace's profile in Theatrhythm refers to Zero as a "lullaby": Quote In the Dominion of Rubrum, there exists a legendary class of cadets: Class Zero... This young man stands at the helm of the twelve chosen ones; on a field of violence and horror, he hums a comforting lullaby... You know what a lullaby is. It's a song to put someone to sleep. He learned the song from Arecia. The part he sings in the game is this: Quote Walk on wandering souls For your respite we pray Let our humble song clear your hearts of dismay, Rekindle the flame in your souls and set you free So walk on and become the light that guides the way Utakata (Ephemeral/Transience), the theme song for the cancelled sequel, had an allusion to Zero in its lyrics. ...Did I really never share this? I'll just give you my whole translation of it because there are some parts of it that really make me go "WAIT, HOLD ON. IS THIS ABOUT KINGDOM HEARTS NOW??" Apparently it was specifically written in archaic Japanese to have an "ancient" feeling. Quote A wish for everlasting enlightenment After countless years, it remains unanswered A wild blaze rages, Lighting aflame this unstoppable pulse A flurry of sakura petals fall and scatter as if dancing A voice spun in defiance fails to rise In the face of this blazing anguish which endlessly repeats, Our battle prayer is merely transient The endless sky, the full moon Beckon the winds of history Deceiving even God's will, I extend my hand Toward that nostalgic figure Which seems to be slumbering Ephemeral souls, memories of the ancient past Are reborn in transience Knowing it's unforgiven, this body seeks out The oath of specks of guiding lights The love song I play I devote to the place beside you Where I wish to continue sleeping This whole time, I wished that this moment Could continue forever I am guided by the cycle of life and death Ephemeral souls, memories of the ancient past Are reborn in transience In the face of this blazing anguish which endlessly repeats, Our battle prayer is merely transient In specific, I believe that the line "The love song I play / I devote to the place beside you / Where I wish to continue sleeping" is referring to the ending of Type-0. Ace sings some of Zero to calm everyone down as they realize that they're going to die. Moments later, as Zero begins to play, Machina and Rem arrive too late and find everyone laying together... So, in this case, sleep was... a metaphor for death... JACK IS JUST HAVING A NICE NAP HERE WITH HIS FRIENDS. I feel like noting that FFXV and Type-0 end in a similar way with the main characters dying. (Well, just Noctis and Luna for FFXV. The others were fine. But we know how Yozora and Star Girl are doing. Not good.) Edited February 10, 2021 by setsugekka 1 Double OKP reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double OKP 171 Posted February 11, 2021 19 hours ago, setsugekka said: Ah, this is something I've thought about with a friend. Put simply... We think that Xigbar is the new active leader. I mean, consider it... If Demyx is the MoM, how much work and fighting do you think he actually wants to do? None, right? The MoM has already shoved off most of the work onto other people. He might not even technically be a keyblade master anymore. (..........Was he ever, really? I have suspicions. lol How does someone who didn't have a master declare themselves to be one? That's sketchy.) Hmmm...that makes sense. Wait...the MoM is the one who forged the Keyblades after all, so it would be impossible for him to have a Master(at least a Keyblade Master). But yeah.....how can he declare himself a Master himself? HMMMM (that dude is too mysterious we need to know more) 20 hours ago, setsugekka said: Anyway, I think about this song every time I think about MoM and Luxu. Make sure the subs are on and enjoy. lol That it. That's their dynamic! ??Yes, it definitely is lol 20 hours ago, setsugekka said: This is the Type-0 HD soundtrack. It's shaped like a book for no apparent reason. There's only one bluray disc in there. Very strong Book of Prophecies vibes, imo. Probably also a coincidence, but I enjoy it nonetheless. It's very cool looking. ...Whoa, I totally mistook that for an actual book lol 20 hours ago, setsugekka said: I'll just give you my whole translation of it because there are some parts of it that really make me go "WAIT, HOLD ON. IS THIS ABOUT KINGDOM HEARTS NOW??" Apparently it was specifically written in archaic Japanese to have an "ancient" feeling. WHOA WHOA WHOA, "Ephemeral souls, memories of the ancient past..."..........totally KH vibes. And the "The endless sky, the full moon Beckon the winds of history"...reminds me of the Final World... In Toy Box, YMX uses some kind of red force to blast Sora into the Verum Rex game. That red force reminds me of the Reality Stone. (So in the Marvel universe, there are seven stones, called the Infinity Stones, that make up the universe. One of them is the Reality Stone, which represents the fabric of reality.) And...that red force happens to be the same color as the Reality Stone. I don't know if that's a coincidence but...*glances at Nomura* At the end of KHIII, Eraqus and MX depart to Kingdom Hearts. But...that takes place in a Scala Ad Caelum that's...not real(isn't it like a dream version of it since Sora used a pink dream portal to get there? Like what the heck is that world I don't know lol). So...how were Eraqus and MX able to depart...when that world and that Kingdom Hearts wasn't even real??? Oh my gosh, in that scene Riku says: Quote Kingdom Hearts is closing on the other side. "On the other side"...and if that world is a dream world...........NOMURA!!!! I also noticed something else. In the Scala language, 'X' is the number 4. 'χ' means death, and...the number 4....symbolizes death...? 1 setsugekka reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
