KH3D I have (finally) accepted time travel but . . . [spoilers]

[atheist123 583]

My question(s) are . . . if people can only time travel if they have "cast aside" their body then how can Xemnas time travel?

 

Does his "stub" of a heart just leave his body behind then return afterwards to the time he left?

 

You must have to be only a partial being as it is said that all the 13 darknesses returned to their own time stream, even though Xemnas has a body.

 

How can Master Xehanort time travel? He must come from the time when he was just a heart before he possessed Terra.

 

Is AX actually revived and the one which is allowing the other Xehanorts to travel this far into the future or does it appear to be MX in a fully taken over Terra body?

 

YMX must only be a heart or else he couldn't time travel. What happened to his body? Does he just re-possess his body once he has finished time traveling?

 

I always thought "Casting aside your flesh" meant that you could not return to your body, as in, turn into a heartless/heart and nobody/body. So does "cast aside your flesh" mean temporarily turn into a heart that can time travel and change its physical shape? Because this seems cheap to me . . . I always thought that although Keyblades can unlock peoples hearts the heart must immediately migrate into a host or else it turns into a heartless and nobody. And MX says that he is going to split his heart amongst his new vessels and that this will keep them in this time without needing to return to their time, but how does this work if they are just hearts?

 

 

 

SO: SUMMARY QUESTION

Is it the heart or the body that time travels?

 

If it is the heart, then how will giving the "vessels" (which are just hearts) a 1/13 th of MX's heart keep them in the present?

If it is the body, then how can a heartless like ASoD time travel?

[Skai 3,961]

The heart travels and can only travel in one direction. So the Ansem: Seeker of Darkness that travels can't travel back and so he took refuge in Riku's body.

 

Xehanort said he split his heart into 13 people but Xemnas also stated that some people/nobodies have the capacity to cultivate their own heart and since Xehanort is so strong, I'm pretty sure the 1/13 piece eventually turns into a whole heart.

[Kinode 3,056]

1:The other norts time traveled along YX. Xemnas and Oldnort were both taking a ride with YX, along with Xehanort's Heartless.

So basically, one heart travels, but you can take other things with you along the way. He took the other Xehanorts.

2: The vessels weren't exactly for keeping them in the present. The original vessels were Nobodies. They were supposed to be completely filled with Darkness after Xemnas acquired Kingdom Hearts but that ends up going wrong.

In this game, they only needed a few vessels, this "new" organization and one more(Sora) for again, making 13 darknesses. Xehanort just wants to split his heart in 13 and scatter it on others for the Keyblade War.

[atheist123 583]

But how can all the 13 Norts be vessels if they are just hearts! Hearts are the only ones that can time travel and I thought the whole point was to have a physical vessel for MX's heart. But they can obviously travel in both directions as ASoD is in KH3D which is after BBS and KH1 . . . and all the Xehanorts returned to their own time stream at the end of KH3D.

 

EDIT: Okay, so it just is. I'm happy with this. I will stop trying to rationilise time travel.

Edited April 2, 2012 by atheist123

[Skai 3,961]

But how can all the 13 Norts be vessels if they are just hearts! Hearts are the only ones that can time travel and I thought the whole point was to have a physical vessel for MX's heart. But they can obviously travel in both directions as ASoD is in KH3D which is after BBS and KH1 . . . and all the Xehanorts returned to their own time stream at the end of KH3D.

 

EDIT: Okay, so it just is. I'm happy with this. I will stop trying to rationilise time travel.

 

The hearts need vessels and so Xehanort had accounted for the missing vessels by getting other vessels. They haven't explained which bodies were used but they had back ups other than the original Organization 13.

[wayfinder823 477]

Okay--if you can time travel, I can only assume you can go FORWARD in time as well.

 

So either the principal of fate doesn't apply, or MX knows he's going to win.

[atheist123 583]

So YMX can piggyback anyone . . .he collected ASoD once he had possessed Riku (but before he was destroyed), he gathered Xemnas (before he died), MX (before he possessed Terra), AX is the one letting them time travel by existing in the present, Isa/Braig from before they were eliminated and the rest are just replica's/clones/random nobodies.

 

YMX must be just a heart (as he can time travel and bring people to the present) and when he is defeated he will return to his body and forget everthing that has happened to him? Yeah, this is good enough for me.

[legendkiller222 22]

If YMX takes anyone from the past to the present then the future is altered. What the firetruck happens in KH1 or KH2 then if the main bosses are just taken and wait you can't travel to the future so how can you even collect someone from the past?

[atheist123 583]

If YMX takes anyone from the past to the present then the future is altered. What the firetruck happens in KH1 or KH2 then if the main bosses are just taken and wait you can't travel to the future so how can you even collect someone from the past?

 

When you time travel you either go foward or back. ASoD is the newest Xehanort incarnation so went back to his early self. YMX is the youngest so went foward to gather everyone. When people are taken out of their time stream they remain in the new time until they are defeated/ choose to go back, then they return to the point they were taken from with none of their new knowledge. The future isn't altered because the people he takes are not taken permanently; they eventually return and continue to live out their pre-destined lives, they can just alter the future which hasn't been decided yet (KH3 etc) until Xehanort is completely dead at which point nothing they do can change anything. The Universe allows the future to be changed, but not the life of anyone during the "backwards" time travel.

Edited April 2, 2012 by atheist123

[Queen Tery 4,591]

um, are you guys forgetting that Master Xehanort himself didn't need to time travel in the first place. he was reborn when xemnas and ansem: seeker of darkness were defeated. there was no reason for them to bring him to the future. also, ansem seeker of darkness and young xehanort are the only ones who can time travel. xemnas just traveled with young xehanort and young xehanort went and took ansem to the future, before he died. ansem and xehanort leaving the timeline, split the timeline into an alternate timeline. they do not need to return to their pre-destined lives, because in this current timeline, they already have lived out their lives.

[thekh13 10]

ok if any one can do this for me it will be great can anyone explan to me who the MF is from bbs aka YMX what role does he have in this game im just getting confused i need to get this game and beat it to understand it

[atheist123 583]

um, are you guys forgetting that Master Xehanort himself didn't need to time travel in the first place. he was reborn when xemnas and ansem: seeker of darkness were defeated. there was no reason for them to bring him to the future. also, ansem seeker of darkness and young xehanort are the only ones who can time travel. xemnas just traveled with young xehanort and young xehanort went and took ansem to the future, before he died. ansem and xehanort leaving the timeline, split the timeline into an alternate timeline. they do not need to return to their pre-destined lives, because in this current timeline, they already have lived out their lives.

 

I've accepted the Time travel idea but I am never accepting this "alternative reality" bs . . .MX said that each Xehanort is returning to his timestream until the 7 lights are prepared to fight them. I take this as each Xehanort can freely return to the place they travelled from, they just are unable to alter their destiny in any way. Idk if MX or AX is the form revived, but it doesn't really matter; one form of Xehanort has been revived and is allowing all the others to come to the present and it probably is both of them but just with MX more in control than the last time we saw AX. The whole point of KH time travel is to restrict what Xehanorts can do; they cannot alter their pasts and change the present (like kill Sora/Riku before the "present" time), they can only move in one direction per entity, and there needs to be a Xehanort in the time they travel to.

 

If your idea about not returning was true then a paradox would occur. The life of the time travelling person can be considered to have happened but if, say, ASoD is not defeated by Sora, then Riku would never be saved and the whole series would be firetrucked. ASoD needs to be defeated so that he can time travel to a point in time where an incarnation of Xehanort exists. They need to return to keep the Universe in balance, if they want to or not this is what is going to happen to the forms of Xehanort from the past. . . returning to their natural time is the only way to a) time travel and b ) kill Xehanort eventually

Edited April 2, 2012 by atheist123

[Queen Tery 4,591]

I've accepted the Time travel idea but I am never accepting this "alternative reality" bs . . .MX said that each Xehanort is returning to his timestream until the 7 lights are prepared to fight them. I take this as each Xehanort can freely return to the place they travelled from, they just are unable to alter their destiny in any way. Idk if MX or AX is the form revived, but it doesn't really matter; one form of Xehanort has been revived and is allowing all the others to come to the present and it probably is both of them but just with MX more in control than the last time we saw AX. The whole point of KH time travel is to restrict what Xehanorts can do; they cannot alter their pasts and change the present (like kill Sora/Riku before the "present" time), they can only move in one direction per entity, and there needs to be a Xehanort in the time they travel to.

 

If your idea about not returning was true then a paradox would occur. The life of the time travelling person can be considered to have happened but if, say, ASoD is not defeated by Sora, then Riku would never be saved and the whole series would be firetrucked. ASoD needs to be defeated so that he can time travel to a point in time where an incarnation of Xehanort exists. They need to return to keep the Universe in balance, if they want to or not this is what is going to happen to the forms of Xehanort from the past. . . returning to their natural time is the only way to a) time travel and b ) kill Xehanort eventually

 

yes, i know what a paradox is, but there are other time travel theories. such as if young xehanort left his timeline, then the timeline would split off. one where xehanort stopped "existing" and one where xehanort continues on to become the master xehanort that we all know. the timeline we are still watching would be the one we have been following all along. this young xehanort would technically be from the alternate timeline, therefore not affecting anything in this timeline. also, if xehanort did say they would return to their respective times, then i'm sorry, i don't remember him saying that. but, if he did then you are right and this game would not be following this theory.

[Bizarro 10]

We still have no clue how YMX cast aside his flesh or if he did so at all, but the "alternate reality" thing is indeed false. Both YMX and MX have made it clear that YMX would return to his own time once his job was finished in 3D (which is precisely what the secret ending confirmed), meaning he would grow up to become the MX we're familiar with. They're pretty much just the same person from different times.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Bizarro

[Master Xehanort1690 39]

We still have no clue how YMX cast aside his flesh or if he did so at all, but the "alternate reality" thing is indeed false. Both YMX and MX have made it clear that YMX would return to his own time once his job was finished in 3D (which is precisely what the secret ending confirmed), meaning he would grow up to become the MX we're familiar with. They're pretty much just the same person from different times.

 

Actually YMX should be coming back for KH3 since he's part of the 13 darknesses. During the ending MX said we'e all returning to our place because light and dark are still short meaning they're all returning because the 7 lights and 13 darknesses have yet to be completed, but when they are they'all return and clash against one another.

[atheist123 583]

Actually YMX should be coming back for KH3 since he's part of the 13 darknesses. During the ending MX said we'e all returning to our place because light and dark are still short meaning they're all returning because the 7 lights and 13 darknesses have yet to be completed, but when they are they'all return and clash against one another.

 

Exactly. . . but they are from the same timeline nevertheless and they have all temporarily gone back to their own time until a) the lights are stronger b ) a 13th member is found. Just as long as no-one suggests an alternative reality then I'm happy with anything that can be said about time travel : P

[Bizarro 10]

Actually YMX should be coming back for KH3 since he's part of the 13 darknesses. During the ending MX said we'e all returning to our place because light and dark are still short meaning they're all returning because the 7 lights and 13 darknesses have yet to be completed, but when they are they'all return and clash against one another.

 

While this may be true, my point is that it was clarified that the Xehanorts can't simply hang around until the time is nigh. They must all return to their original eras so that the general time flow isn't screwed up, meaning that Master Xehanort basically keeps them in reserve and pulls them out of their times when he requires their assistance. This leads me to believe that once they're defeated in KH3, they'll be forced to return to their original times rather than just die off.

 

There are some Organization members, however, like Braig and Isa, who would belong in the present and thus have no need to return to a different time.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Bizarro

[Remains of Old 117]

No clue why YMX has his body if he traveled back in time yet.

I bet Mysterious Figure from BBS is not Young Master Xehanort, they will probably each one a vessel, not just a single one.

Ansem was a emblem heartless, so he did had a heart.

 

Ansem, a Heartless had a heart.

Xemnas, a Nobody, had just a body (Now he cultivated a heart of his own, though)

So Ansem casted away his Heartless body, went back in time, explained stuff to YMX, then more stuff happened, he used Riku, and got a body of his own.

I think Young Master Xehanort found a better way, or is somehow special in this Time Travel subject, since he didn't had so much problems with his body.

 

Don't forget one can only time travel to places that he existed, and cannot change things that has happened, so the ''kill MX when he was a baby'' wouldn't work if a hero got to time travel.

So, yeah, i think YMX is able to go both back and forth trough time, and with freedom.

[atheist123 583]

While this may be true, my point is that it was clarified that the Xehanorts can't simply hang around until the time is nigh. They must all return to their original eras so that the general time flow isn't screwed up, meaning that Master Xehanort basically keeps them in reserve and pulls them out of their times when he requires their assistance. This leads me to believe that once they're defeated in KH3, they'll be forced to return to their original times rather than just die off.

 

There are some Organization members, however, like Braig and Isa, who would belong in the present and thus have no need to return to a different time.

 

I think we both mean the same thing ;p I dont spend any time making sure my grammar/point gets across properly so my meaning can be lost in translation.

 

Your post pretty much sums up my view . . . that although the new Norts can time travel forward they are bound by their destiny's and must eventually live out their lives as per usual. YMX is the only one who can time travel so, for him, there may be no time between KH3D and when the Norts are needed so YMX has actually just brought the Norts to the future not back to their own time (yet) since he can just travel to the future more. They may have all returned to their normal lives, but I think that they could be considered as in "stasis" until they are needed which YMX would know/ find out.

[atheist123 583]

No clue why YMX has his body if he traveled back in time yet.

I bet Mysterious Figure from BBS is not Young Master Xehanort, they will probably each one a vessel, not just a single one.

Ansem was a emblem heartless, so he did had a heart.

 

Ansem, a Heartless had a heart.

Xemnas, a Nobody, had just a body (Now he cultivated a heart of his own, though)

So Ansem casted away his Heartless body, went back in time, explained stuff to YMX, then more stuff happened, he used Riku, and got a body of his own.

I think Young Master Xehanort found a better way, or is somehow special in this Time Travel subject, since he didn't had so much problems with his body.

 

Don't forget one can only time travel to places that he existed, and cannot change things that has happened, so the ''kill MX when he was a baby'' wouldn't work if a hero got to time travel.

So, yeah, i think YMX is able to go both back and forth trough time, and with freedom.

 

YMX is only able to go foward from the time he first learned how to time travel . . . unless they bring in a baby/toddler Nort. There is currently no evidence that YMX can travel back in time from his home time state. It may appear he travels back in time but this isn't true. He is special in that he is the earliest time frame for the Norts, nothing else. I think that when a heart time travels it returns to its body afterwards, but since ASoD did not have a body then it returned to the brown cloak figure instead.

 

YMX does not have a body; just something that resembles a body. His body hasn't started to act on its own (in his time stream) since he will return to the exact moment his heart left his body. YMX is like Sora at the end of KH1 in that he has a human form even though he has no true body.

[Remains of Old 117]

YMX is only able to go foward from the time he first learned how to time travel . . . unless they bring in a baby/toddler Nort. There is currently no evidence that YMX can travel back in time from his home time state. It may appear he travels back in time but this isn't true. He is special in that he is the earliest time frame for the Norts, nothing else. I think that when a heart time travels it returns to its body afterwards, but since ASoD did not have a body then it returned to the brown cloak figure instead.

 

YMX does not have a body; just something that resembles a body. His body hasn't started to act on its own (in his time stream) since he will return to the exact moment his heart left his body. YMX is like Sora at the end of KH1 in that he has a human form even though he has no true body.

 

How do you know all of that? It's preety interesting.

[atheist123 583]

How do you know all of that? It's preety interesting.

 

It's all bull (random theories unsupported by evidence but that makes some logical sense in that it isn't in direct opposition to KH canon).