So, I have just completed KH1 again and this time playing I realised something. BBS and DDD get often criticized for their lack of enemy staggering. And that's true, it's a great flaw of these 2 games. But KH1 is no different sometimes, especially with some bossfights. I noticed this with 2 of them in particular: Sephiroth and Xemnas (or Unknown, whatever). They kept getting out of my combos before my finisher for no apparent reason, even without combo plus, and so I kept getting hit. It seems that only KH2 got this right. Let's hope that revenge value comes back in KH3

So, I have just completed KH1 again and this time playing I realised something. BBS and DDD get often criticized for their lack of enemy staggering. And that's true, it's a great flaw of these 2 games. But KH1 is no different sometimes, especially with some bossfights. I noticed this with 2 of them in particular: Sephiroth and Xemnas (or Unknown, whatever). They kept getting out of my combos before my finisher for no apparent reason, even without combo plus, and so I kept getting hit. It seems that only KH2 got this right. Let's hope that revenge value comes back in KH3

Difference is that aerial combat isn't a thing in KH1, there's no aerial recovery, and you drop during aerial combos, so the main fight is fought on the ground, you're always able to block and dodge attacks, there's no need for enemies to stagger for you to be fine. Plus, they do stagger, at least those two, especialy Spehiroth, Ansem's final fight, Ice Titan and many other bosses don't stagger, so that wasn't your best example I don't think

Difference is that aerial combat isn't a thing in KH1, there's no aerial recovery, and you drop during aerial combos, so the main fight is fought on the ground, you're always able to block and dodge attacks, there's no need for enemies to stagger for you to be fine. Plus, they do stagger, at least those two, especialy Spehiroth, Ansem's final fight, Ice Titan and many other bosses don't stagger, so that wasn't your best example I don't think

Well... I don't know... 70% of the time I couldn't finish my combos (ground combos), and if the boss attacks during my attack, well, I'm gonna get hit. They stagger, yes, but I can't FINISH the combos. And I had trouble with those 2 bosses because of this (or at least in part because of this)

Well... I don't know... 70% of the time I couldn't finish my combos (ground combos), and if the boss attacks during my attack, well, I'm gonna get hit. They stagger, yes, but I can't FINISH the combos. And I had trouble with those 2 bosses because of this (or at least in part because of this)

I didn't have that problem at all, and if I couldn't finish my combo it was normaly because they teleported, not because they attacked me. Well, I haven't faced them in like 4-5 years, so you would know better than me

So, I have just completed KH1 again and this time playing I realised something. BBS and DDD get often criticized for their lack of enemy staggering. And that's true, it's a great flaw of these 2 games. But KH1 is no different sometimes, especially with some bossfights. I noticed this with 2 of them in particular: Sephiroth and Xemnas (or Unknown, whatever). They kept getting out of my combos before my finisher for no apparent reason, even without combo plus, and so I kept getting hit. It seems that only KH2 got this right. Let's hope that revenge value comes back in KH3

They are secret bosses, they weren't really supposed to stagger. That is one of the reasons that made them hard, because they were different from the other bosses.

They are secret bosses, they weren't really supposed to stagger. That is one of the reasons that made them hard, because they were different from the other bosses.

Well, that's not a good kind of difficulty... that's the reason why misterious figure in BBS is such a bad bossfight (much worse than the ones i mentioned for KH1)

I haven't played KH1 in a long time, but 2 things:

1. I do remember that Sephiroth does stagger, especially if air combos are used.

2. Sephiroth teleports after 4 hits, so make sure your finisher is the 4th one for more damage and in order to finish your combos, so Sephiroth won't catch you off-guard.

Sephiroth always auto-counters every 7 hits if they're not consecutive hits and every 4 hits if they're consecutive hits, which the same thing applies to some bosses as well like Riku, Leon, and Ansem. As Ansem and Riku (Hollow Bastion) will stop flinching and auto-counter after 3 hits while Leon, Riku (Destiny Islands), & Riku/Ansem will stop flinching and auto-counter after 4 hits.

Sephiroth always auto-counters every 7 hits if they're not consecutive hits and every 4 hits if they're consecutive hits, which the same thing applies to some bosses as well like Riku, Leon, and Ansem. As Ansem and Riku (Hollow Bastion) will stop flinching and auto-counter after 3 hits while Leon, Riku (Destiny Islands), & Riku/Ansem will stop flinching and auto-counter after 4 hits.

Mh I see thanks. Managed to beat them after levelling up a bit while farming for the ultima weapon

Just because you know a boss's weakness, doesn't mean the game designers have to let you get a whole combo in. Battles wouldn't be fun that way. That's why there's abilities like second chance, and once more.

Just because you know a boss's weakness, doesn't mean the game designers have to let you get a whole combo in. Battles wouldn't be fun that way. That's why there's abilities like second chance, and once more.

Well in KH2 you can, that's why I think revenge value is so good, because it creates a fair challenge 

Sephiroth flinches like crazy, but as stated already, he counters with a random attack after every 7th hit, so it's best not to have Combo Plus or certain finishers like the Gravity Finisher (Don't remember the name) or Zantetsuken. Blitz works quite well though.

 

As for Xemnas, Aerial Attacks cause him to flinch, the aforementioned Gravity Finisher I Don't Know The Name Of () stuns him for a few moments, with Graviga having the same effect, plus he counters frequently. He and Sephiroth I'd consider to be fair challenges so I let them off with their occasional moments, not so occasional for Xemnas, of no stagger/Brick Wall from Days.

 

Mysterious Figure and a LOT of other bosses from DDD and BBS stagger very infrequently and they have a seemingly random attack pattern. Fun to fight, but damned frustrating. And considering the Team making KH3 (Osaka) , I doubt we'll see Revenge Value or even a fair challenge return. That's just me being skeptical though.

Well, that's not a good kind of difficulty... that's the reason why misterious figure in BBS is such a bad bossfight (much worse than the ones i mentioned for KH1)

No, the reason why he was a bad fight was because he won't let you breath, everything he does will kill you, his attacks are cheap, and the only way to fight him is using doge and thunder surge. It's fine if a secret boss doesn't stagger as much as normal bosses because you should feel a bit intimidated and scared by it, not annoyed and unhappy.

Well, that's not a good kind of difficulty... that's the reason why misterious figure in BBS is such a bad bossfight (much worse than the ones i mentioned for KH1)

MF wasn't a bad boss because he didn't flinch, on fact, Vanitas and Terranort flinch less often than him. He's a bad boss because of how he can only be beaten with thunder surge, it means you can't really use your favourite commands against him and have to rely only on that one command. Plus, he's just too OP, it's not enjoyable.

MF wasn't a bad boss because he didn't flinch, on fact, Vanitas and Terranort flinch less often than him. He's a bad boss because of how he can only be beaten with thunder surge, it means you can't really use your favourite commands against him and have to rely only on that one command. Plus, he's just too OP, it's not enjoyable.

 

Not only that but the fight punishes you for using combos & gives off the illusion that it's "difficult" since it is more drawn out than an actual boss fight.

 

At least with Lingering Will he was a difficult yet at the same time fair. You learned something new every time you fought the stupid armor & you, the player, felt better each time you properly got a combo or reflect in.

 

The MF boss fight just involves a whole lot of mashing square, thunder surge, with MAYBE an occasional block here or there.

Staggering in KH1 wasn't completely necessary due to the primitive combat system. Even if the enemy doesn't stagger, you won't be affected much since you can't be combo'd like in other KH games. However, I think I know what you're talking about by "non-staggering" and it really doesn't even come close to BBS and DDD's level of unstaggerable (that's not a word lmao) enemies.

 

KH1 enemies definitely stagger. Sephiroth staggers and teleports immediately after you deal 4 hits to him consecutively. Unknown staggers when he is open or when you stun him with something like Gravity. These bosses stagger; it's just not as obvious since you most likely attempted to hit them when they were attacking you, which obviously means that they won't stagger.