Charles Matthews

When I mean the Norts. I mean the ones who didn't time travel like Master Xehanort, Braig/Xigbar, and Isa/Saix. I could assume MX probably went back to Keyblade Graveyard since it seemed like his hideout in BBS or where he spent the most time talking to himself like what every senile old man would do jk. But what about Braig and Isa? Where could they have gone? Back to Radiant Garden? Or... maybe somewhere else. Goofy did say Lea rushed back to Radiant Garden in a hurry which has to do with a topic I'll post about in a couple of days. So maybe Braig and Isa went back there And as for Terranort or simply Terra, we know that MX and Terra are now most likely separate beings now thanks to the recompletion and as Ienzo said, when the Heartless and Nobody are slain, the original person is recompleted and said recompletion occurs in the place where the split happened in the first place. Which is why we saw Lea, Dilain, Even, Aeleus, Ienzo, and even Braig and Isa being recompleted in Radiant Garden as that's where they all became Heartless and Nobodies the KH 2.5 secret ending showed us. Terra should be no different and it may be the case as Braig and YX implied in the Secret Ending with the whole "Lord Xemnas is nowhere to be seen" comment meaning he must have awakened first and left somewhere or YX just picked him up first before picking up Braig and Isa or both scenarios really since it was implied either way Terra was in the gathering room with the other Norts going by MX's comments. So with the whole scenario with 3D over with, could Terra have been cast back to Radiant Garden along with Braig and Isa? Maybe he's chillin with Leon's gang for all we know. Not like they know he's got MX' and Xemnas' hypothetical heart inside him jk KH3 will obviously reveal where they went but just a little thought on where Terra, Braig and Isa might have went after the 3D meeting since they're the only known Norts who didn't Time Travel excluding Master Xehanort.

Frozen's popularity kinda makes it a lock for a slot for KH3 I'd love to see Jungle Book in as well since it was robbed an appearance in BBS And Pochantas too....... like the fact that world hasn't made an appearance yet is saddening. Putting in Lilo and Stitch's world would be effing sweet too And Mary Poppins too *shot*

Ok Nomura mentioned before that Leon, Aerith, Yuffie, Cloud, Tifa, and Cid were all going to appear in Birth By Sleep but were cut because "too many plots were going on and it would have gotten more complicated". So assuming they did make the cut, how would their interactions with the BBS Trio go since they were intended to atleast meet them seeing how BBS was about Terra, Aqua and Ven.

If they have a better group of people working on new and improved AI for KH3 compared to KH2... I'd be willing to wait a little longer. Don't need Donald and Goofy dying every 5 seconds on me or Donald wasting good magic spells on useless enemies and vice versa </3

Lol pretty much what Flaming Lea said summed up the similarities between Roxas and Xemnas and how Ven's heart stayed in Sora's physical body, maybe Terra's heart somehow split away from MX's heart and stayed inside his body which at this point was Xemnas, Terranort's nobody. Since Terra and MX's heart were basically joined for the most part fighting for control vs Sora and Ven's hearts being possible, it could also help to explain why Terra and MX split into individual entities after Ansem and Xemnas were destroyed. So like how Ven's heart stayed with Sora's physical body(Roxas), Xemnas' new heart most likely would have stayed with Terranort's physical body(Terra) keeping Terra as "half Xehanort" and under MX's control as he plainly said in 3D. Thus eliminating a reason to go fetch a defiant and harder to control Terranort from the past when you have a perfectly seeded Terranort in the present thanks to Xemnas' probable heart and maybe another extra servings of MX heart on a platter.

Why would he need the past version when he has control of the present version? It saves YX the hassle on going to have to fetch him at an earlier point with him having to go fetch others like Ansem and Xemnas as well.

It was pretty much confirmed at this point that Terra indeed has returned in body and flesh just like MX in the present following Ansem and Xemnas' destruction. We just don't know specifically where he is at the moment with the implication from MX that he still has control over Terra as one of his vessels.

I'm well aware of that though. I never argued that Ansem solely got his traits from MX since his appearance is similar to Terra since he was based on Terranort's design. The theory was mostly on how both Ansem and Xemnas'destructions caused the recompletion of MX and Terra separately for some reason. MX/Terra's situation is indeed different than Sora/Ven's but similar at the same time Since Roxas' heart went to Sora since it was the origin of his body and his original self. Xemnas' hypothetical heart most likely stayed within Terra during the recompletion since it's literally the same body after all which keeps him being Terranort and also keeps him under MX's thumb.

I'm well aware of what he said and that old interview. What I was presenting was just a theory after all...

Well here I am with another post of discussion and it's one that's been mentioned many times. What happened to Terra/Terranort after the whole recompletion process happened when Ansem and Xemnas were destroyed? Why did Master Xehanort return instead of Terranort in 3D? Where could Terra's body be then? Well it's mostly just theories but IIRC Flaming Lea made a prediction on what happened to Terra's body overall and I can't help but agree with her. It makes sense. Master Xehanort was most likely kicked out of Terra's body as the recompletion was happening. Whether it was intentional or not is unknown but the proof that he's back in his original body is enough to say such a claim and it was even outright confirmed by Nomura and in the game. Where does this leave Terra? He's most likely still in his body or atleast his heart is. It never left. I'm even assuming it never even left even when Terranort separated into Ansem and Xemnas.....which means he was still inside the latter and most likely the reason why Xemnas seemed to take after Terra a bit more than he took after MX IMO(even if he was more loyal with MX) I mean it's essentially Terra's body after all just aged from the years that passed between BBS and KH2 meaning Xemnas must have started growing a heart seeing how he seemed very aware that Nobodies could grow hearts(could have been from his research and all but it could have been from first hand knowledge of his own) Maybe the many "conversations" with Aqua's armor and his search of Ven helped him in growing a heart lol jk. But anyways we could assume he may have grown a heart seeing how Nomura also said that Xemnas might have been able to wield a Keyblade but preferred not to most likely so he wouldn't look suspicious to the other members since they were lead to believe only Roxas and Xion could help them collect hearts for Kingdom Hearts since they both used Keyblades or more like the same one. And to use a Keyblade, you generally need to have a Heart. So when Xemnas was destroyed along with Ansem, Terra and Master Xehanort returned but separately for reasons unknown but popular theory since MX wasn't the original owner of Terra's heart and body, he was kicked out into his old body. But MX being the all seeing God Villain Sue that he pretty much is, probably had this all planned out to as his quote "All of this has been decided." when he first returns in KH3D seems to indicate he knew he'd be back in his original body eventually basically BBS' plot with MX and Terra was rendered pointless somewhat Even despite all this, MX still says he has Terra under his control as one of the 13 Darknesses. Why would he say such a thing? Well Roxas apparently grew his own heart and when he merged with Sora again, his heart and his memories went inside him too. Same with Xion who most likely grew her own heart as well since Ansem The Wise did say in his research that even puppets can grow heart. Hell even data could grow hearts if they want too. It's Kingdom Hearts! So Roxas and Xion's new hearts went inside Sora and were in a deep slumber but 3D clearly showed them reacting a bit hence all the hallucinations and memories Sora was going through when the New Org 13 were fu*king with his mind with sleep. My point is, Roxas and Xion had hearts they most likely grew and went to Sora when Xion merged with Roxas, who merged with Sora... if Xemnas really did grow his own heart as well(since he seems to be a special Nobody like Roxas anyways), couldn't he have passed his heart along to Terra when the recompletion happened? I mean he is Terra's body after all, only aged. Plus going by what Braig said to Young Xehanort in the 2.5 Secret Ending aka Destiny With Young Xehanort giving him the "yes" and then proceeds to Braig going on and on about how old man Xehanort is a boss and bla bla bla. Basically he clearly separates Xemnas and Master Xehanort from the other and was expecting Xemnas to be revived in Radiant Garden and YX didn't seem to dismiss this notion. Hell even Lea thought Xemnas would be brought back here. Xemnas is literally Terranort's body so Terra was most likely brought back in Radiant Garden since that's where Terranort/AX lost his heart and body after he went loco on the other apprentices, Lea and Isa and took their hearts as well which their Heartless and Nobodies were formed there which is why they were all revived there as well. Terra should be no exception and we should have Terra walking around the streets of Radiant Garden somewhere at the moment but he most likely has Xemnas' heart and maybe some remnant of MX's heart inside him automatically "Norting" him from the getco and being placed under MX's control once again and for YX to most likely pick him up and have him gather with the rest of the group in TWTNW to wait for MX's true restoration since for some reason, MX's restoration took longer to happen than Terranort's(probably because he was sent back to his original body and said body hasn't been in use for so many years or so) That's just speculation on my part. Overall, that's my basic concept on what happened with Terra and why he and MX are now separate. Flaming Lea's theory on Terra's body situation was what pretty much inspired me to look deeper into it and add more to it. But yeah hope it makes some sense. P.S. Terranort's probably back over at Radiant Garden trying to fight off Xemnas' heart/MX's heart within him with Eraqus' help but to no avail kinda pathetic. Aerith comes by picking up flowers and sees the young man(depending if Terra aged which he should have) and saying he has pretty eyes. It reminds her of the radiant sun. and then a brand new ship was born lol jk don't take this seriously pls

Because they were assembled with Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Braig and Isa to wait for Master Xehanort at TWTNW....? MX even referred to them as his "13 Darknesses?" YX called them the "New Organzation 13?" I have no idea why this is even a debate when 3D threw the scene at us flat out. All we don't know about is who they are hence one of the many mysteries of KH that will be revealed in KH3.

Unknown in the sense that we don't know who they are underneath the hood. Otherwise, seeing how they've already taken up those chairs, the seats have literally been...... filled.

Haha I know and it sucks. It's like I feel like our theories get us closer to knowing who the new Org 13 are but some other stuff and Nomura's trolling statements send us back to square one which is why I usually don't debate about the new group as much as I did before Once again, Terra and Vantias seem to be the only ones at the moment who fit those requirements since both have great darkness within them, both have yellow/golden eyes, both were closely connected to Master Xehanort(Vantias being his pupil for 4 years and going and Terra "sort" of being his new pupil after his distrust with Ven, Aqua and Eraqus continued growing thanks to MX's manipulations who really just wanted a new vessel) Terra even had the pointy ears when MX turned him into his vessel and we don't know if Vanitas has the same ears due to that damn helmet. But overall, I still don't think Vantias is in the group atm and will probably be saved for as the 13th member but idk, we'd have to wait and see when KH3 rolls on by. It's also why I don't see why people usually include Riku Replica in it as well... probably for that Monstro scene from KH3D which was just the implication of the Dream World showing off memories of Riku's "dark side" only taken form. Just a reminder of what he used to be and nothing more. The Norts wanted Riku originally and even still made some grab on trying to get him onboard(hence Ansem still bugging him on surrendering to the dark once again) so it wouldn't make much sense to have some "Replica" of him in his place. It would just feel cheap. Plus if they wanted to have Terra not have the "White Hair" since he's apparently has his body back, he could easily just have what he had back in that KH2 FM Secret Ending. I know it was just a concept still being worked on back then but still...

Yeah I'm honestly expecting my "seeding theory" to be wrong in all honesty but... Nomura just made it seem like we would be able to figure it out just by how they were seated and all since it was done "properly" so there must be some pattern but... it doesn't help that nobody existing seems to have shown signs of being a Darkness besides Terra and Vantias. Xaldin/Dilan has the ears but... he's already been restored back and wasn't taken AND his seat's been taken already so it kinda kills his chances. The "unstable" part is probably just him trying to get a grasp of reality once more and maybe regaining his memories. i have a feeling Xchi's being thrown into the equation as an excuse not only to give Xehanort more credibility as a "God" villain with the Foretellers thing, but so they could find some people there who could fill in some of the ranks of the new Org 13. That Black Coat guy who talked with the Foretellers does seem suspicious indeed. Black coats are typically associated with Xehanort since he apparently came up with the idea of the coats..... question is why is that Black Coat being used in such a distant time before the Keyblade War? Could it have been the 6th Forteller? If so, does this hammer in further the obvious connection Xehanort has with said Foreteller besides possibly wielding his Keyblade? I have a theory on this but.... I'll have to wait until Xchi is over since I'm sure a lot of people have come to the same conclusion and I don't want to derail the post any further.

IIRC Vanitas' eyes were originally red when he was first born or atleast that's what the BBS novels said(I know novels aren't really canon but apparently some events there do end up being canon if the KH2 FM scene with Xiggy and Zexy was any indicator) Plus it's just strange. Riku when he was basically at the edge of complete darkness in KH1, his eyes remained the same along with others who have had their eyes close to the darkness at some point. The ones who's eyes turn yellow/gold(Braig, Terra and Isa) along with with having darkness invade their body were all explained to have a seed of MX inside them. Vantias(if the novels are correct) pretty much fall into the same category plus he was with alone training with Xehanort for four years. i wouldn't put it past MX to place a piece of his heart inside Vantias just like Sora did for Ventus. Even with all that, I still don't think he's presently one of the members atm. I know we got that whole scene with YX but Nomura's interview about Vanitas not having a body but being sort of "alive" in a sense sort of supports it. I would think that's just a foreshadowing for his revival in KH3 when Ventus wakes up, then he'd join the group as it's 13th member. I couldn't see anybody more fitting than him and it saves us the trouble of having more unnecessary new characters appear out of nowhere. If he was there, we'd have seen him when the Org 13 met up in the TWTNW or been mentioned. He's around but for some reason, wasn't collected from the past like Ansem and Xemnas was. It would have been easy for YX to do so unless Vanitas' situation is a bit more complicated than we thought. @Keysmith Wow man I never really thought of it like that though. Nice theory THOUGH it sort of sounds similar to the my theory on the group being chosen from when Xehanort first seeded them. Well except YX. That was pretty elaborate actually but has more meat on it than my theory on why he's 12th

Well no but she did meet them specifically the HBC back in KH1 when they went back to Traverse Town after escaping Hollow Bastion. She met Leon, Yuffie and Aerith so it counts. Riku hasn't met anybody from Final Fantasy -_-

^Hahaha for those reasons alone I want them to meet especially Riku and Cloud. Riku- "I was once a prisoner of the darkness but I conquered it. You could too!" Cloud- "You don't know me." Riku- "Hmph." Cloud- "Hmph." The end.

Am I the only one who's kinda stumped that Riku hasn't interacted with any FF characters and is hoping he does in KH3 regardless of his mission with Mickey? I get back then he probably wouldn't have interacted with a lot of them due to the whole "darker than thou" drama he had going on, but... now he should be fine. IIRC he's like the only one out of the Destiny Trio who hasn't met any of the members of the Hollow Bastion Restoration Committee. I'm hoping he'll meet them eventually since I need those Riku/Leon and Riku/Cloud interactions or Riku/FF characters in general. ^.^ Probably a pointless and unnecessary nitpick but doesn't hurt to dream.

Yeah YX is definitely one of the 13 I do like your theory and it does seem plausible especially if to get Terra with the GoL but.... Terra could still be saved during the clash of the 7 vs 13 fight and finally be able to turn on Xehanort. I mean I'm betting a good selection of Norts aren't truly loyal to MX or being forced to fight with him against their wills(Whether this is Saix is unknown) And as for Terra's heartless, it certainly is a possibility actually but IIRC, Terra's heart was never stolen by the darkness well under normal circumstances and I'd like to think that maybe... Apprentice Xehanort's heart was the combo of both of both Terra and MX's fighting and when the Heartless came, it took his heart meaning Terra/MX simultaneously and they spread off into different forms(MX going to Ansem and Terra possibly going to Xemnas) BUT......Xehanort's "special Nobody" should be out there somewhere. But knowing I could be wrong, you may be onto something with the Terra's Heartless bit

Hey guys I'm Charles but I go by KeyToDestiny on Deviantart and KhInsider(had an account there years ago but I forgot the password #fml) so I wanted to kinda talk about a little theory of mine that I'm sure others have come up with as well and the subject's probably been beaten to death at this point but just wanted to share a little theory. Nomura has said the Seekers are all "seated properly" which had me confused for the longest time but.... something sort of clicked Like remember how the old Org 13 were all seated from when they first joined and all? The new Org 13's seating order could work in a somewhat similar way but more like when the first got Norted instead. Why else would Saix still be seated as No. 7 in the new group? So we have the main Xehanorts(Master Xehanort, Xemnas and Ansem) take up the first 3 seats and since MX is now taking Xemnas' seat, Xemnas' rank went down to No. 2 and now takes Xigbar's seat who know takes No. 4 which is Vexen's old seat(eliminating his chances of being in the group) And Braig/Xigbar's seat in the new group fits perfectly as well. If proved otherwise, he was the first vessel who was seeded by Xehanort dating way back in BBS as Braig and has been working with Xehanort for years so him getting No. 4 makes sense. Now who could be No.5 and No. 6? Well who was norted right after Braig in BBS? Terra. And didn't MX go on and on about Terra being made into a vessel for him and him belonging to him(It wasn't confirmed but was certainly implied. No. 6? Well when Terra was first possessed by Xehanort, Nomura mentioned some time ago that Xehanort left "something behind" and that something wasn't a Heartless. Whatever that "something" is could be what Xehanort had planned to being one of his vessels as a bonus with getting Terra as well. I know it's a long stretch since Nomura's one to retcon and forget stuff(if DDD was any indication) but it would be a perfect excuse to just throw someone in there I always wondered why Saix/Isa's rank didn't change and if this theory is correct(which it probably won't) then it would make sense for Saix to stay where he is. We don't know when, but it's implied that Xehanort(or Xemnas) somehow norted Isa/Saix right before the destruction of Radiant Garden or once Isa began his new life as Saix. Xehanort had amnesia(or could have been feigning some of it) from the end of BBS to the destruction of Radiant Garden and his separation into Ansem and Xemnas so.... I don't think he'd have norted anyone else during that time or even remembered to do so unless Braig told him some things. So now that we got No.4-7 down, where does that leave No. 8-11? Honestly that's where I'm stumped at the moment. No. 12 is Young Xehanort and why he's No. 12 is not only is he the "youngest Xehanort" but he's literally the guy who acts as the "portal" to get everyone together. Basically it's a scenario of "letting everyone take a seat at dinner before you take your own seat." and that's basically what happened. When Riku went to their headquarters to save Sora, YX basically got everyone together to symbolize the formation of the new group and they all took up their seats before YX finally got to take his own as 12, which would technically be the official time he joins. No. 13 is still up for grabs, but I'm assuming it's Vantias because 1. Yellow eyes and close connection to Xehanort along with 4 years with Xehanort means he had to have been Norted back then.Why he's not in the group yet is because presently he doesn't have a body. Yes I know YX could easily pick him up through time travel like he did with Xemnas and Ansem but.. for some reason, he didn't or else that scene at La Cite Des Cloches with him and YX wouldn't have happened. Nomura pretty much said that scene was just to show Ven's heart was starting to react within Sora which is why he saw Vanitas in the first place... but at the same time, that scene could just be a foreshadowing for Vantias' return in KH3 when Ven wakes up since I have a feeling when he's active again, so will Vantias in a way and he may even regain his body which then MX would obviously take him so he could join the new group since... he was the original choice for a Darkness to create the X-blade in the first place. I don't see why MX would toss away a valuable asset to his plans for the X-blade. So with that, this is my speculation for the seats of the new Org 13 for the time being. 1. Master Xehanort 2. Xemnas 3. Ansem 4. Xigbar/Braig 5. Terra 6. Whatever the hell MX left behind 7. Saix/Isa 8-11. Unknown for now 12. Young Xehanort 13. Vanitas. If the 2.5 Secret Ending really does imply Braig/Xigbar being separate along with Saix/Isa then my theory could be thrown off a good chunk. Well feel free to comment on it. Hope it makes some sense!