Could someone please clarify with me the following.

During 2016, there was a KH concert in which a dialogue between Namine and Terra was revealed.

Namine spoke of Terra coming into contact with Aqua's light (which set the stage for a cutscene between Terra and Aqua in 'Kingdom Hearts 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue 0.2 Birth By Sleep A fragmentary Passage'...damn that was a mouthful)

 

What I don't understand is how can this dialogue occur in the time line.

 

Here is the dialogue

 

 

 

• Will: This place, it's...
• Namine: This is a world of your memories. You're the only one the people of this time don't know the whereabouts of. I made it this far by following the links of those connected to you.
• Will: Who are you?
• Namine: Nice to meet you, I'm Na.. I'm a witch who manipulates memories.
• Will: A witch?
• Namine: Right now, you're bound by two sets of memories. One is your own memories. The other is that of a very dark power.
• Will: Master... Xehanort...
• Namine: Soon you'll be touched by a familiar light. Please guide her, so that she isn't confused by the darkness.
• Will: She... Aqua! But I can't do anything, the way I am now...
• Namine: Everyone is fighting in the the ways they can. I want you, too, to believe in yourself and fight so that your heart doesn't melt into the darkness. We will all make it to the same place, you see.
• Will: Aqua... Ven... Someday, I'll... no matter what, I'll...
• Will: I've never forgotten what happened on that day. I'll make it here and show you, no matter what.

Copied from KHInsider

 

 

 

Lets go through some Logic!!

1. The cutscene between Aqua and Terra occurs shortly before the ending to Kingdom Hearts 1
2. The dialogue between Namine and Terra would have to had occurred before the cutscene stated above

BUT that doesn't make sense because

1. Namine had not met Sora, seen or placed DiZ's data within Sora yet as Sora hadn't visited Castle Oblivion by then AND
2. Wasn't Namine born at Castle oblivion and shortly taken custody/held prisoner by Organisation XIII very shortly after? I highly doubt she'd meet Terra in those circumstances. It doesn't make sense.

That would mean Namine would not have had the chance to connect to Terra (Heck she probably doesn't even known who Terra was by that point in time).

 

Ruling out placement

• The dialogue between Terra and Namine can't have occured after the ending to KH1 or throughout KH2 because Mickey would have already escaped the Realm of Darkness by then (i.e. the cutscene between Aqua and Terra would have already occurred)
• The Dialogue can't have taken place before the Hollow Bastion events in KH1 because Namine would not have come into existed before then
• Which places the dialogue in a very short time frame between the Events at Hollow Bastion in KH1 and the Ending of KH1

 

Possible Hypothesis

• In Namine's Dialogue with Terra, it is implied that the 'light' he would come into contact with would be Aqua's light as Aqua is currently lost in the realm of Darkness.
• However WHAT IF in the event (unlikely) that Namine meant that Terra might feel Aqua's light for a second time in the events post KH1? Might he manifest for a second time before Aqua at the Dark Margin (where she meets DiZ/Black Coat Man)
• Nomura did say that dialogue leads into 0.2.

 

Conclusion

 

 

• Nomura has got some explaining to do.

 

 

Edited February 7, 20178 yr by catmaster0116

Considering Naminé can affect the memories of Sora and those connected to him, including Ventus and thus Terra and Aqua, it's possible she was able to make contact with Terra/Lingering Will after some time she was born in Castle Oblivion. According to the 358/2 Days Timeline, Ansem the Seeker of Darkness was defeated on Day 16, giving quite an amount of time between Naminé's birth and Terra's contact with Aqua.

This is why I hate Nomura, he reveals important plot details everywhere except in the games themselves and only in places that non Japanese people can't legally get to.

Well, if you think about it Kairi lost her heart (who rested inside Sora) at the beginning of KH1 and what was left of Kairi's body was nothing but an empty shell, maybe Namine was born then and not when sora stabbed himself (remember that no one knows how it's even possible that she exists, because kairi's body was not lost). The moment Namine contacts the LW is nearly at the end of KH1 so (and this is just a theory) that would explain how she was able to contact with terra's mind that rests inside the lingering will, because of his (and ven and aqua) connection with sora. 

Sorry if it's not perfect, I actually speak spanish  :tongue:

Well, if you think about it Kairi lost her heart (who rested inside Sora) at the beginning of KH1 and what was left of Kairi's body was nothing but an empty shell, maybe Namine was born then and not when sora stabbed himself (remember that no one knows how it's even possible that she exists, because kairi's body was not lost). The moment Namine contacts the LW is nearly at the end of KH1 so (and this is just a theory) that would explain how she was able to contact with terra's mind that rests inside the lingering will, because of his (and ven and aqua) connection with sora. 

Sorry if it's not perfect, I actually speak spanish  :tongue:

No, no, your English is great!! ^^

 

I'm not sure how accurate the information is on Kingdom Hearts Wiki, but the page on Namine says 'Naminé was born when Sora became a Heartless in order to free Kairi's heart during Kingdom Hearts.'. Which means Namine can only be born after Sora stabbed himself with the Keyblade of Hearts.

 

And even if Namine was born at the start of KH1, Namine could have only learned of the 'pain' within Sora during the time she had to put Sora to sleep and unscramble his memories at the end of CoM. Which still means she would not have had the knowledge of the BBS trio before the ending to CoM.

 

This is why I hate Nomura, he reveals important plot details everywhere except in the games themselves and only in places that non Japanese people can't legally get to.

 

I think its just poor planning.

 

Nomura feels like he came up with an amazing jaw dropping dialogue only to realise it can't fit into the timeline. Thats probably why he didn't turn the dialogue into a proper cutscene. Instead the purpose of that dialogue between Namine and Terra is to hype the fans and act as a pseudo advertisement for KH2.8FCP.

 

The only way I can see this dialogue working out to fit into the timeline is through Time Travel.

If the Namine that exists after KHCoM (and therefore has the knowledge of Terra and gang) can somehow project her consciousness into the past, between around the time Sora became a heartless and the end to KH1 - it might work. But that is still a bit of a stretch.

 

 

Considering Naminé can affect the memories of Sora and those connected to him, including Ventus and thus Terra and Aqua, it's possible she was able to make contact with Terra/Lingering Will after some time she was born in Castle Oblivion. According to the 358/2 Days Timeline, Ansem the Seeker of Darkness was defeated on Day 16, giving quite an amount of time between Naminé's birth and Terra's contact with Aqua.

 

If Ansem was defeated at the end of Day 16, that means Namine's birth could coincide between Days 0-16 on KH358/2Days. At that point it would still be around the late half of KH1's story.

 

The problem is that we don't know what is the extent of Namine's influence on Sora's Memories. If Namine was born during the events of KH1 Hollow Bastion, then has she been tampering or peeking into Sora's mind since then? Do her powers work outside of Castle Oblivion? How far can her powers work (i.e. She was in Castle oblivion, is she able to tamper with Sora when he was in say 'End of the World', 'traverse town'..etc)

 

I was under the impression that Namine only learned of Terra/Aqua/Ven after the events of Chain of Memories (which as you know occurs after KH1) when she had to unscramble Sora's memories and put him to sleep. If this is taken to be fact then she would not have had any knowledge of Terra and gang prior.

 

In the dialogue, she also states 'Everyone is Fighting'. Who is 'Everyone?'. The Namine who exists Pre-CoM would not have had the knowledge of the BBS trio, and she would have begun to just gain knowledge of the Days trio (of whom were still working under Xemnas rather than against him).

Edited February 8, 20178 yr by catmaster0116

Huh, well this is definitely a jumbo jigsaw puzzle of a mess! I think that maybe Nomura didn't think of what was the most appropriate time to have Namine and Terra speak to each other this way.  This definitely causes a bit of confusion when it comes to the timeline and when this happened.  Heck, even a Master such as I can find this confusing!

 

But maybe, ever since Sora entered Castle Oblivion, or maybe even a bit before that, Namine was already peeking into his memories, and I'm guessing she starts to find out about the people in his heart by probably feeling Ventus's heart within Sora's, and therefore maybe even sensing his presence in Castle Oblivion! Maybe that's when she drew the dots and found herself being able to speak to Terra, due to Ven's heart having a connection to Terra's! And I'm assuming she means everyone is fighting in the sense that the people she might have found in Sora's heart, which would be Terra, Aqua and Ventus, are fighting for their lives! She probably wouldn't have found out about Roxas, Axel and Xion yet! Remember, Namine can access Sora's memories, so maybe her powers dig even deeper into that, since she can tamper with his heart. But hey, this is all just serving to probably confuse you even more, so I'll stop deducing!

Huh, well this is definitely a jumbo jigsaw puzzle of a mess! I think that maybe Nomura didn't think of what was the most appropriate time to have Namine and Terra speak to each other this way.  This definitely causes a bit of confusion when it comes to the timeline and when this happened.  Heck, even a Master such as I can find this confusing!

 

But maybe, ever since Sora entered Castle Oblivion, or maybe even a bit before that, Namine was already peeking into his memories, and I'm guessing she starts to find out about the people in his heart by probably feeling Ventus's heart within Sora's, and therefore maybe even sensing his presence in Castle Oblivion! Maybe that's when she drew the dots and found herself being able to speak to Terra, due to Ven's heart having a connection to Terra's! And I'm assuming she means everyone is fighting in the sense that the people she might have found in Sora's heart, which would be Terra, Aqua and Ventus, are fighting for their lives! She probably wouldn't have found out about Roxas, Axel and Xion yet! Remember, Namine can access Sora's memories, so maybe her powers dig even deeper into that, since she can tamper with his heart. But hey, this is all just serving to probably confuse you even more, so I'll stop deducing!

 

I like they way you think ^^

we can never be sure unless Nomura paints it out clearly for us

 

 

 

I'm so done with this series.

Kingdom Hearts is a great series if we take it for it is (without all the crazy theories/hypothesis and trying to connect the dots). I think we'd lose a lot of sleep if we try to make sense of it all

 

 

 

We should just enjoy the series for all the stress-relieving-button-mashing-heartless-bashing-square-button-breaking moments

I like they way you think ^^

we can never be sure unless Nomura paints it out clearly for us

 

 

 

I'm so done with this series.

Kingdom Hearts is a great series if we take it for it is (without all the crazy theories/hypothesis and trying to connect the dots). I think we'd lose a lot of sleep if we try to make sense of it all

 

 

 

We should just enjoy the series for all the stress-relieving-button-mashing-heartless-bashing-square-button-breaking moments

 

Thanks, much obliged, Master Of Cats!

And yes, Nomura definitely needs to make things clear for us! X3

 

And well hey, sure, this series can be chock full of brain racking mysteries and that makes us want to theorize, which is okay! I think it's fascinating that it makes us think so much!

 

And yes, let's toast to all that button mashing goodness!

 

I'm not sure how accurate the information is on Kingdom Hearts Wiki, but the page on Namine says 'Naminé was born when Sora became a Heartless in order to free Kairi's heart during Kingdom Hearts.'. Which means Namine can only be born after Sora stabbed himself with the Keyblade of Hearts.

 

And even if Namine was born at the start of KH1, Namine could have only learned of the 'pain' within Sora during the time she had to put Sora to sleep and unscramble his memories at the end of CoM. Which still means she would not have had the knowledge of the BBS trio before the ending to CoM.

 

It was never officially said that she was born when sora used the keyblade of hearts so it probably was just taken as fact by everyone, we only know for sure that Roxas was created then. Although you still have a point that she knew about the hurting when repairing sora's memories. Maybe she reached terra's mind when being born somehow (if we make a timeline, by the time aqua finds terra in the realm of darkness, that it's after he spoke to namine, it would be almost on the same time period) but it wouldn't explain how she knew that help was coming. What it's certain is that Namine can make contact with anyone who has connection with Sora (she saved riku by entering his mind when he was being swallowed by the light in CoM for ex.), but until they explain how is it possible, we can just speculate.

 

 

 

The problem is that we don't know what is the extent of Namine's influence on Sora's Memories. If Namine was born during the events of KH1 Hollow Bastion, then has she been tampering or peeking into Sora's mind since then? Do her powers work outside of Castle Oblivion? How far can her powers work (i.e. She was in Castle oblivion, is she able to tamper with Sora when he was in say 'End of the World', 'traverse town'..etc)

 

Well she said that she has been alone for a long time, weeks, maybe months if my theory of her being born in the beggining is correct and we also know that she started messing with Sora's mind when Marluxia obligated her.

The answer is yes, after the events of CoM she stayed for little to no time in Castle Oblivion, then she along with DiZ moved Sora, Donald and Goofy to the basement of Twilight Town Mansion so they will be safe of being found.

 

 

 

I'm guessing she starts to find out about the people in his heart by probably feeling Ventus's heart within Sora's, and therefore maybe even sensing his presence in Castle Oblivion!

 

For me it's very unlikely, since at that time Ventus's heart was residing inside Roxas.

 

So to conclude, yeah, Nomura has a lot of things to aswer about  :tongue:

It was never officially said that she was born when sora used the keyblade of hearts so it probably was just taken as fact by everyone, we only know for sure that Roxas was created then.

Namine' was in fact born on the same day that Roxas was born, which was when Sora stabbed himself.

 

Here's a quote from the 358/2 Days ultimania timeline:

 

Day1:

• Sora's Nobody is born in Twilight Town and given a name before joining the Organization.
• Namine' is born in Castle Oblivion, where Organization XIII appears.
• Sora is revived from becoming a Heartless.