Hello guys, once again I am posting a somewhat controversial post to some, but I believe it raises some points and it's really good to see people having a proper discussion.

Alright before I start I'd like to make clear that I am a Catholic and attend a Catholic Boys High School so I'm not picking on the Catholic/Christian religion, I am simply expressing my curiosity.

 

Alrighty let's begin. I've come to the understanding and knowledge that not many priests or holy figures of the church believe in exorcisms anymore as the idea of a demon possessing someone is now thought of as untrue/impossible/etc etc. Now I am sure that the bible is very clear on the fact that Satan and demons are just as real as God and Jesus are. So why is that they (religious figures) and we (christians) in the vast majority to do not believe in demons?

Now as stupid as it sounds I've seen a lot of movies that depict South American Christians as very strong believers in demonic possession, but I have absolutely no direct knowledge on that idea so I can't say anything for sure, so if anyway would like to enlighten me on the subject it would be much appreciated.

Anyway, does anybody find this strange, that we believe in one side of 'greater beings' but not the other?

 

I also know from personal experience that the Church's stance on the Bible and it's stories is leaning more and more towards that they are metaphorical and are meant to convey a message rather than be directly true. Btw I'm not talking about Jesus and disciples here, I mean smaller stories, parables, and generally things that sound far fetched these days. I think the Church has come to realise that although it is gaining members due to children following their parents religions, these children have a real hard time believing in what they may see as fairytales almost.The Church has had to, and is, changing their attitude as to how they convey their messages.

 

Our beloved College Chaplain, Father John Carney, passed away last year after 50 years of service at the school. A funeral was held at St. Patrick's Cathedral in Melbourne (the largest church in Melbourne) and almost 3000 people (students, teachers, past students, friends) came to farewell the great man.

 

Although my Catholic beliefs may be wavering, I know that Fr John not only spread the message of God and Marcellin Champagnat (the saint whom my school is named after), he got a message across to the boys every week on how we could be better people; live with the values that the church teaches us; go out of our way to assist others; and to basically be respectable, honourable and good people. I am deeply saddened at regretful that I did not spend more time with him. He would go out of his way each year to talk individually to each of the 1200 or so students.

 

Sorry for getting off topic there, but I'm trying to get the message across that religion doesn't have to be worshiping a deity. It can just help you in your life to be a better person. I think that is what the Catholic Church is trying to do at the moment.

Catholic = cat-holic

Hmmm... Before I begin, I'm not Catholic, so I can't say I know much about the Catholic church or what it's moving toward as far as doctrine, but I'll offer my view on the topic of demons. I believe that absolutely demons exist. They are everywhere, and they try to attack people all the time (no matter what their spirituality is like).

 

As for demons possessing people, I've never seen it for myself but I believe it's still possible today. But I don't think they can possess a person unless the person allows it. By that, I don't mean a person would intentionally let a demon take over and consciously allow it to mutilate his/her body or whatever. It would probably be more subtle at first, like maybe someone who tries to communicate with the dead and encounters a demon posing as the spirit of a deceased person and lets the spirit "speak" through him/her, then the demon gets closer and closer to the person's heart until s/he is completely possessed. That's just one example, of course. I'm not saying this happens all the time--I really don't know for sure that it actually does happen, but I think it's possible.

 

With that, exorcisms are a grey area for me. I don't know if they actually work. I think back to the fact that Jesus gave His disciples the authority to rid possessed people of demons, as well as to heal by touch. If I remember correctly, nobody was given that kind of authority after the disciples, so why would certain people have that authority today? And if they did, couldn't some heal by touch as well? So I just don't know. It's something I'd like to do more research on, to be sure.

As a Catholic, I've always thought most of the stories were meant to be seen in a metaphorical way as opposed to literally. Like, sort of a way to get certain messages across in a way most people would understand.

 

As for demons possessing people, I've never seen it for myself but I believe it's still possible today. But I don't think they can possess a person unless the person allows it. By that, I don't mean a person would intentionally let a demon take over and consciously allow it to mutilate his/her body or whatever. It would probably be more subtle at first, like maybe someone who tries to communicate with the dead and encounters a demon posing as the spirit of a deceased person and lets the spirit "speak" through him/her, then the demon gets closer and closer to the person's heart until s/he is completely possessed. That's just one example, of course. I'm not saying this happens all the time--I really don't know for sure that it actually does happen, but I think it's possible.

 

With that, exorcisms are a grey area for me. I don't know if they actually work. I think back to the fact that Jesus gave His disciples the authority to rid possessed people of demons, as well as to heal by touch. If I remember correctly, nobody was given that kind of authority after the disciples, so why would certain people have that authority today? And if they did, couldn't some heal by touch as well? So I just don't know. It's something I'd like to do more research on, to be sure.

 

in regards to demons/exorcisms, I agree 100% with this.

I'm sorry that your college chaplain, Father Carney passed. He sounded like a wonderful preist and a great man. I wish you had gotten to spend more time with him.

 

 

 

 

I'm a Catholic too. I understand where you're coming from about the stories from the Bible.

 

What I have always thought, personally (I have never really discussed this with anyone else, and these are just my humble opinions), is that most if not all of the stories actually did happen. I believe them to be true.

 

It's just that today, we interperet them so that their meanings have relavance to our modern lives.

 

Take for instance the story of Noah and the Ark. The whole entire world probably didn't flood with water, but what they (the people who lived through it) KNEW to be the entire world, as in much of the Middle-East. I think that back then God worked on much grander scales. So then I think it's possible that it actually happened.

 

But for a priest to give the story modern relevance in say, their homily, they interperet the story into a metaphor so that it's easier for people to relate to.

 

Many of the stories in the Bible weren't written down as they were happening. They would be told by many different people, passed along by word of mouth, and down through families, so it's natural for some of these stories to become a bit embelished over time, with each re-telling of the story.

 

 

 

On the subject of demons, I have seen spirits before, so yes, I believe in demons.

 

I honestly don't have an answer for why people don't believe in demons, though.

I'm sorry that your college chaplain, Father Carney passed. He sounded like a wonderful preist and a great man. I wish you had gotten to spend more time with him.

 

 

 

 

I'm a Catholic too. I understand where you're coming from about the stories from the Bible.

 

What I have always thought, personally (I have never really discussed this with anyone else, and these are just my humble opinions), is that most if not all of the stories actually did happen. I believe them to be true.

 

It's just that today, we interperet them so that their meanings have relavance to our modern lives.

 

Take for instance the story of Noah and the Ark. The whole entire world probably didn't flood with water, but what they (the people who lived through it) KNEW to be the entire world, as in much of the Middle-East. I think that back then God worked on much grander scales. So then I think it's possible that it actually happened.

 

But for a priest to give the story modern relevance in say, their homily, they interperet the story into a metaphor so that it's easier for people to relate to.

 

Many of the stories in the Bible weren't written down as they were happening. They would be told by many different people, passed along by word of mouth, and down through families, so it's natural for some of these stories to become a bit embelished over time, with each re-telling of the story.

 

 

 

On the subject of demons, I have seen spirits before, so yes, I believe in demons.

 

I honestly don't have an answer for why people don't believe in demons, though.

 

That is a very good point about the interpretation of the stories and how the world was different back then.

 

Although I myself have had no experience with spirits and such, I respect your experiences and opinions, and to be honest I myself am not ruling out that they don't exist, I guess I'm just not too sure on the topic.

That is a very good point about the interpretation of the stories and how the world was different back then.

 

Although I myself have had no experience with spirits and such, I respect your experiences and opinions, and to be honest I myself am not ruling out that they don't exist, I guess I'm just not too sure on the topic.

 

Thank you for respecting my belief of ghosts! I rarely ever tell people what I've experienced, because they'l think I'm lying or think I'm crazy, I told you because it related to this. I have only ever had two close friends who I trusted and trusted me that I told and that believed me. I haven't really even told my family. Trust me I never believed in ghosts before I saw them myself, and now I am the biggest skeptic towards people who claim to have seen ghosts.

 

But now that I've seen them, I believe that the supernatural does exist.

 

If you think about it, how do we know what angels and demons look like? Does it ever say in the Bible that an angel has the most beautiful face, a flowing gown, wings, and a halo? Not that I know of. Does it ever say that a demon has forked tail, red skin, horns, and hooves? No, I don't think so. These are just Artist's interpretations. For all we know that could look like ordinary people. This is just a theory of course.

 

If you think about it, how do we know what angels and demons look like? Does it ever say in the Bible that an angel has the most beautiful face, a flowing gown, wings, and a halo? Not that I know of. Does it ever say that a demon has forked tail, red skin, horns, and hooves? No, I don't think so. These are just Artist's interpretations. For all we know that could look like ordinary people. This is just a theory of course.

 

That's very true, it would probably make more sense if it was like that.

 

That's very true, it would probably make more sense if it was like that.

 

It seems like we're in agreement? If you have anymore questions, don't be afraid to ask me

 

 

It seems like we're in agreement? If you have anymore questions, don't be afraid to ask me

 

Yes it seems that we are

Roman Catholic here and I'd have to say that at least some of the bible stories are literal, at least partially. For example there is evidence of a great flood around the time the Noah's Ark story took place, the fact that two religions are fighting over the sovereignty of the same "rock" seems a little too fishy to be metaphorical, and there are indeed records of Jesus' execution.