So i was playing through BBS Final mix with my sister (who stopped playing kh about half way through KH2) and she had a lot of questions. 

 

"Why does Ventus look like Roxas?"

 

"Why is there another Xehanort?"

 

"Who is the boy in the mask?"

 

"Whats the point of this prequel sequel? What is it supposed to add to the series?"

 

As i was explaining things to her, i realized something: I missed the days when we knew next to nothing about the series.

 

As i explained and showed her the secret movies that hinted at bbs, I told her how it seemed at the time everyone was talking about it on the forums- theorizing, trying to figure it out.

 

How when all we had was the name, 'Unbirths' as the new enemy, we made theories upon theories about them because we had nothing else but that name-only to find out later they were actually called 'Unversed'.

 

Back when, we perplexed by who the 3 characters in armor, and when we were left scratching our heads at why 'Roxas' was one of them.

 

I even remember when it was revealed who Axel and Saix somebodies were, and their names, it was so amazing to have that tidbit.

 

I dont know, it just doesnt seem the same in the fandom since most of the mysteries are gone. There's a spark that seems to have gone out. That spark that kept me up at night, and day dreaming in class trying to figure out these mysteries. I still love the series, and i wouldnt quit it for the world, but things just arent how they used to be...

 

What do you think? 

 

 

So i was playing through BBS Final mix with my sister (who stopped playing kh about half way through KH2) and she had a lot of questions. 

 

"Why does Ventus look like Roxas?"

 

"Why is there another Xehanort?"

 

"Who is the boy in the mask?"

 

"Whats the point of this prequel sequel? What is it supposed to add to the series?"

 

As i was explaining things to her, i realized something: I missed the days when we knew next to nothing about the series.

 

As i explained and showed her the secret movies that hinted at bbs, I told her how it seemed at the time everyone was talking about it on the forums- theorizing, trying to figure it out.

 

How when all we had was the name, 'Unbirths' as the new enemy, we made theories upon theories about them because we had nothing else but that name-only to find out later they were actually called 'Unversed'.

 

Back when, we perplexed by who the 3 characters in armor, and when we were left scratching our heads at why 'Roxas' was one of them.

 

I even remember when it was revealed who Axel and Saix somebodies were, and their names, it was so amazing to have that tidbit.

 

I dont know, it just doesnt seem the same in the fandom since most of the mysteries are gone. There's a spark that seems to have gone out. That spark that kept me up at night, and day dreaming in class trying to figure out these mysteries. I still love the series, and i wouldnt quit it for the world, but things just arent how they used to be...

 

What do you think? 

while it was nice learning everything it cant last forever. 

 

My Knowledge is both a blessing and a curse- Soos 

Well, there are lot of things we still don't know even now, so its really not that much different to be honest.

KH went down completely the wrong route and made everything very scientific and overly specific. In most cases not knowing was far more interesting than the end result. I think the perfect example is Keyblades

they were a cool rare unique item once. The Keyblade War was distant, so the concept of there being lots of keyblades once is a cool concept. Then we found out that keyblades are man made swords. Not just that, but failed replicas of a better sword. Not only that, but you can get a keyblade by just asking someone and going to train. Keyblades are basically worthless now, so they have to find new ways to make them valuable, like making Xehanort's the most ancient.

 

Definitely nothing will compare to the hype and speculation of this video though:

Well, there are lot of things we still don't know even now, so its really not that much different to be honest.

sure it is

the things we don't know are so much more mechanical now. Before we could dive into complete unknowns. This new character looks like that Xehanort guys from KH2. That guy in armour looks like Roxas. why does Vanitas have the same suit as Riku. Why is there a Keyblade Graveyard.

Now it's more about putting together the complicated physics of KH to try to predict what will happen next "What are the ramifications of Terranort becoming a whole being again?" and stuff like that

We're discussing things we know to understand them better, not speculating on mysterious unknowns

sure it is

the things we don't know are so much more mechanical now. Before we could dive into complete unknowns. This new character looks like that Xehanort guys from KH2. That guy in armour looks like Roxas. why does Vanitas have the same suit as Riku. Why is there a Keyblade Graveyard.

Now it's more about putting together the complicated physics of KH to try to predict what will happen next "What are the ramifications of Terranort becoming a whole being again?" and stuff like that

We're discussing things we know to understand them better, not speculating on mysterious unknowns

 

There are still a lot of unknowns that we can't base off what we already know.

sure it is

the things we don't know are so much more mechanical now. Before we could dive into complete unknowns. This new character looks like that Xehanort guys from KH2. That guy in armour looks like Roxas. why does Vanitas have the same suit as Riku. Why is there a Keyblade Graveyard.

Now it's more about putting together the complicated physics of KH to try to predict what will happen next "What are the ramifications of Terranort becoming a whole being again?" and stuff like that

We're discussing things we know to understand them better, not speculating on mysterious unknowns

And does anyone remember when we found out Vanitas looks like Sora? OMG, i remember how the forum seemed to explode with thoughts on that.

There are still a lot of unknowns that we can't base off what we already know.

such as?

There are still a lot of unknowns that we can't base off what we already know.

I agree there are still quite a few unknowns, but nothing that feels as huge as before is what I'm trying to say.

 

 

Definitely nothing will compare to the hype and speculation of this video though:

I agree, the hype that came after that was just enormous. When Kh3 was announced it was close, but not quite as earth and internet shattering it seemed to me. I wish they had done a movie like that to announce KH3 rather than a sort trailer. Then i think the hype would've surpassed it quite easily.

Edited April 29, 201510 yr by Fates Chance XIII

such as?

 

Well... the true origin of the Keyblade, the origins of the "original world", how Xehanort and Eraqus came to shape their personal philosophies, etc.

KH went down completely the wrong route and made everything very scientific and overly specific. In most cases not knowing was far more interesting than the end result. I think the perfect example is Keybladesthey were a cool rare unique item once. The Keyblade War was distant, so the concept of there being lots of keyblades once is a cool concept. Then we found out that keyblades are man made swords. Not just that, but failed replicas of a better sword. Not only that, but you can get a keyblade by just asking someone and going to train. Keyblades are basically worthless now, so they have to find new ways to make them valuable, like making Xehanort's the most ancient. Definitely nothing will compare to the hype and speculation of this video though:

The wrong route thing and the worthless keyblade thing is your opinion and I respect it, even though mine is the complete opposite and only Lea was the one who asked for a keyblade. But you have to admit, not knowing anything was fun while it lasted

I really hope what ever they have planned for after the Dark Seeker Saga captures that feeling of "What is going on? I must know!" again. I guess this is just what the end of a Saga is supposed to feel like. It's so bittersweet.

Yes.

 

Nomura's efforts to explain everything have essentially cheapened a lot of the story. It feels almost like his goal now is to take anything that you thought was cool or special and make it infinitely less cool and special. Each victory we've gained has been revealed to have ultimately been nothing, and the entire mystique of the Keyblade has been taken away altogether (not because multiple people have them, but because of the fact that they're man made, don't actually choose their owner, and they're all watered down versions of the X-Blade, which itself just reeks of fanfic levels of writing). 

 

One of the reasons I've fallen in love with Dark Souls is that it gives you just enough information to form an idea of what might have happened, but it never gives you any thing definite, allowing you the gift of being able to think things over, discuss ideas, and find an answer on your own. I wish Kingdom Hearts had stayed the same way. 

Each victory we've gained has been revealed to have ultimately been nothing, and the entire mystique of the Keyblade has been taken away altogether (not because multiple people have them, but because of the fact that they're man made, don't actually choose their owner, and they're all watered down versions of the X-Blade, which itself just reeks of fanfic levels of writing). 

 

 

 

 

I can see why you think that, but i actually really liked the route they took with the Keyblade.

 

I've grown quite tired of the, 'You were chosen, you are oh so special, you were predestined to save us all' stories. It is almost a cliche now. I really liked that they took what we knew, and turned it on its head! Said, actually, you know what, you're not that special. Everyone has the opportunity to get a Keyblade, and what you become from having that power depends on who you are as a person- rather than you being some predestined hero.

 

I loved that they gave it a story, and showed how the world changed from what it once was to what it is now in the KH world. This once common weapon declined to the point of almost extinction, to the point where it was legend and seen as some grand thing- but now it is making a come back to what it truly was.

 

As for the 'each victory revealed to have been nothing' i thought that was really different and novel. It kinda emulates real life. You can go to war and win 100 battles, but by the end of the war, you learned that 90 of them not only gained you next to nothing, but may have actually hurt you in the long run. It really humanizes the KH gang- at least for me. They make mistakes, spend whole games chasing the wrong thing, only to realize it later, slap their foreheads, and say, "Ok, well now what do we do?"

 

I see it this story as rather clever, unpredictable, and leaving you on the edge of your seat with excitement but also anxiety about what they will do to the characters you have grown so attached to. I like stories like that, but i understand if it isnt everyones cup of tea.

Well... the true origin of the Keyblade, the origins of the "original world", how Xehanort and Eraqus came to shape their personal philosophies, etc.

The TRUE origin of the Keyblade is that people tried making the X Blade and failed so they were like "eh good enough" and used them as weapons. Do you really think the origins of the original world will be addressed in anything but a vague story?and what shaped their philosophies? Didn't you hear? Time travel did it for Xehanort. Doubt we'll see why for Eraqus. Character motivation has never exactly been a strong point of KH. And if you think ANY of these mysteries stack up to the questions that video I posted raised... I dunno what to tell you.

 

I can see why you think that, but i actually really liked the route they took with the Keyblade.

 

I've grown quite tired of the, 'You were chosen, you are oh so special, you were predestined to save us all' stories. It is almost a cliche now. I really liked that they took what we knew, and turned it on its head! Said, actually, you know what, you're not that special. Everyone has the opportunity to get a Keyblade, and what you become from having that power depends on who you are as a person- rather than you being some predestined hero.

 

I loved that they gave it a story, and showed how the world changed from what it once was to what it is now in the KH world. This once common weapon declined to the point of almost extinction, to the point where it was legend and seen as some grand thing- but now it is making a come back to what it truly was.

 

As for the 'each victory revealed to have been nothing' i thought that was really different and novel. It kinda emulates real life. You can go to war and win 100 battles, but by the end of the war, you learned that 90 of them not only gained you next to nothing, but may have actually hurt you in the long run. It really humanizes the KH gang- at least for me. They make mistakes, spend whole games chasing the wrong thing, only to realize it later, slap their foreheads, and say, "Ok, well now what do we do?"

 

I see it this story as rather clever, unpredictable, and leaving you on the edge of your seat with excitement but also anxiety about what they will do to the characters you have grown so attached to. I like stories like that, but i understand if it isnt everyones cup of tea.

Everything IS chosen adn predestined though, haven't you heard Xehanort's ramblings about time travel? Heck the tagline of BBS is "destiny is never left to chance"

Sora is the chosen one in everything but name, because time is immutable and Sora was destined to have things happen the way they did from the start.

 

With the war analogy thing.

Meaningless battles can be an EXCELLENT plot point when handled with good writing. KH does not have that. What Dave is talking about is every seeming defeat being part of an impossibly elaborate plan by Xehanort. It robs the characters of any momentum of their own. What KH has is more like kids playing tag. "You're it, I win!" "No I'm in the safety zone that bounces it back at you I win!"

It'd humanize the KH game if they reacted in any way, but they don't. Even when  they're outright TOLD that what they're doing is wrong they immediately keep doing it and make no attempt o apply logic or reasoning to find an alternative. Every hero is basically just a tool to make the villain seem more badass, and it often forces them to do really stupid things just to make the villain's plan work.

Basically Nomura is sacrificng every other character to make Xehanort look good

 

Clever? Debatable, but you've been part of this community long enough that you should know it's predictable. People figured out almost every twist long before the twist came around. It's just that people were skepical

I can see why you think that, but i actually really liked the route they took with the Keyblade.

 

I've grown quite tired of the, 'You were chosen, you are oh so special, you were predestined to save us all' stories. It is almost a cliche now. I really liked that they took what we knew, and turned it on its head! Said, actually, you know what, you're not that special. Everyone has the opportunity to get a Keyblade, and what you become from having that power depends on who you are as a person- rather than you being some predestined hero.

 

I loved that they gave it a story, and showed how the world changed from what it once was to what it is now in the KH world. This once common weapon declined to the point of almost extinction, to the point where it was legend and seen as some grand thing- but now it is making a come back to what it truly was.

 

 

 

As far as the "You are chosen" thing being tired, I actually thought it was more clever in how it was originally handled, in that Sora was NOT supposed to be the hero at all, but wound up getting the Keyblade because he was more or less a better person than Riku. He wound up being the chosen one because of who he is, rather than because he was pegged as the hero, if that makes sense. It definately put the emphasis on the heart and soul of a person, whereas the entire notion of a master "bestowing" it upon someone kind of takes away that idea of you getting it because you're good, and puts it more on an arbitrary choice made by someone else. Even if the effect is still the same, in that the keyblade still jumps ship to join Sora, having a third party introduced into the equation just makes it feel more trivial, really. It doesn't really matter that Sora's a good person, it just matters that Terra just so happened to swing by Destiny Islands one day. It just feels like it takes away a lot of a story that is based around the heart when it turns out that the heart you have doesn't matter as much as you thought.

 

 

As for the 'each victory revealed to have been nothing' i thought that was really different and novel. It kinda emulates real life. You can go to war and win 100 battles, but by the end of the war, you learned that 90 of them not only gained you next to nothing, but may have actually hurt you in the long run. It really humanizes the KH gang- at least for me. They make mistakes, spend whole games chasing the wrong thing, only to realize it later, slap their foreheads, and say, "Ok, well now what do we do?"

 

I see it this story as rather clever, unpredictable, and leaving you on the edge of your seat with excitement but also anxiety about what they will do to the characters you have grown so attached to. I like stories like that, but i understand if it isnt everyones cup of tea.

 

 

The problem is, as hatok mentioned above, is that it's not much being played for pathos. The only reason why it keeps being revealed that everything you've done is for nothing is a cheap device to prop up Xehanort and make it out to look like he's a competent villain, when really the only reason he's succeeding is through plot railroading and retcons. Again comparing it to Dark Souls, you're essentially being played by exterior forces the whole time no matter what you do, but there's still an element of payoff at the end, giving you a certain level of satisfaction regardless of manipulation. With Xehanort, you're being manipulated as a cheap way of making the villain look smart, and you look dumb by comparison. It's almost become the case where Xehanort is the main character, if only because he's driving the plot right now, while everyone else is caught in a constant state of reaction. 

 

The main issue I have with with making it so all of your victories prior meant nothing is that it feels like I've been wasting my time, which, after putting a whole lot of hours into a game, feels less like an element of humanity and more like I'm being jerked around. If at any point I could have accomplished the same thing simply by NOT playing the game, seeing as Xehanort was going to make it through regardless, then what was the point of playing the game? 

You can't miss a period you were never a part of, and I might be better off having missed it. I got into KH way late in the game, around the time BBS came into the states, and even then I didn't participate in the fandom (i.e. join KH13) until much later, around the time DDD was the Next Big Thing on the horizon. I had also spoiled myself silly, so I missed out on the active speculations the fandom did -- I'd already known the answers coming into each game I played. Since I came into the series already knowing the big picture, my attitude towards the lore and alleged rectons is much different from the players who watched things unfold game by game. I had no loyalty or player investment built up towards anything, no preconceived notions for what Kingdom Hearts "should" or "used to be like." So, it never felt like I had the rug swept out from under me when it turned out everything was just playing into the villain's plot convenience, or when keyblades were being treated as less mystical. I already knew that. And if I didn't know something, I wasn't surprised. In other words, I was able to see the series not for what it could be or used to be, but for what it is. I was never betrayed, in a sense. And honestly, I might be happier for it as a result.

 

The fact that keyblades turned out to be man-made.. doesn't bother me at all. It feels like it should, and there have been valid arguments made for why it should, but it just doesn't. They had to come from somewhere, and hey, once it leaves the blacksmith it still needs to make the journey to a worthy host. In my mind, the keyblade is still special -- maybe even moreso knowing that they were constructed with specific intent, and not just something that just somehow manifests because, heart reasons.

 

Kind of a cynical way of looking at it, since I pretty much had no expectations to betray. But hey, I still think the series is cool and interesting in spite of all the BS that goes along with it, so I won't argue with the results.

Edited April 29, 201510 yr by Dracozombie

 

Everything IS chosen adn predestined though, haven't you heard Xehanort's ramblings about time travel? Heck the tagline of BBS is "destiny is never left to chance"

Sora is the chosen one in everything but name, because time is immutable and Sora was destined to have things happen the way they did from the start.

 

With the war analogy thing.

Meaningless battles can be an EXCELLENT plot point when handled with good writing. KH does not have that. What Dave is talking about is every seeming defeat being part of an impossibly elaborate plan by Xehanort. It robs the characters of any momentum of their own. What KH has is more like kids playing tag. "You're it, I win!" "No I'm in the safety zone that bounces it back at you I win!"

It'd humanize the KH game if they reacted in any way, but they don't. Even when  they're outright TOLD that what they're doing is wrong they immediately keep doing it and make no attempt o apply logic or reasoning to find an alternative. Every hero is basically just a tool to make the villain seem more badass, and it often forces them to do really stupid things just to make the villain's plan work.

Basically Nomura is sacrificng every other character to make Xehanort look good

 

Clever? Debatable, but you've been part of this community long enough that you should know it's predictable. People figured out almost every twist long before the twist came around. It's just that people were skepical

 

1: Xehanorts ramblings about destiny have always seemed like bad justifications for what he has done. Life is a series of choices, and he acts as though he is God- deciding these peoples destinies for them. His ramblings always reek of someone with a narcissistic God complex trying to explain and justify his terrible acts.

 

2: Bad writing? Yes there are a few moments where i agree with you, but looking at the series as a whole, i think the writing is very good. The few lines they dedicate to the realization that what they have been doing is wrong or playing into the villains hands, i think were fine. And they did have very good reactions in my opinion.

 

The moment in KH2 when Sora realized he is being used by the organization to make Kingdom Hearts was great. He has his moment of doubt, and then reacts in so many words and actions that, 'I know that defeating the heartless is playing into their hands, but the heartless still need to be defeated. I really have no other choice. I can either stop fighting and let the heartless over run the worlds, or defeat them, save the worlds, and find a way to defeat the Organization.' 

 

Also, when Yen Sid realized that the Mark of Mastery exam has been hijacked, he has his moment of realization but at that point there is nothing he can really do. So he does what he can.

 

3: With things being constantly manipulated by Xehanort and his endless back up plans, i will give you that. It does take away from the main characters and kinda paints them as chumps who keep falling into Xehanorts hands. It makes them look like they dont have all that much agency in the game, and are just reacting to what the villain is doing. Though i think this problem really became a problem after KH2- and just unbearable in 3D. It seems like SE likes the villain more than our heroes sometimes. But it does make for an awesome villain. 

 

4: Predictable? Did you predict that they were gonna introduce time travel?

 

Or that the Keyblade was really a common man made weapon?

 

Or that when a Nobody and heartless are destroyed the original person comes back?

 

Or the true purpose of Organization 13?

 

Or Xigbar/Braigs involvement in Xemnas/Xehanorts plans?

 

That the main antagonist split his heart and put a piece of it inside of Braig?

 

Did you predict that yellow eyes and pointy ears didnt mean someone had bent to the darkness but really that they were harboring a piece of Xehanort inside them?

 

Did you predict that before we got KH3 that Sora, and Riku would go through the Mark of Mastery exam?

 

Did you predict that Axel now Lea was going to get a Keyblade?

 

Or that Saix/Isa was really a pawn in Xehanorts scemes to become a vessel like he was revealed to be in 3D?

 

Did you predict the true reason Chain of Memories happened at all? 

 

Did you predict that we would get three more main characters after KH2 and ANOTHER Xehanort?

 

Did you predict that the reason Roxas can dual wield is because he was harboring a completely different persons heart inside of him?

 

Or that the reason Roxas looks the way he does is because of said persons heart? (I dont recall when we found out that Ventus was a different character anyone suggesting the reason we were given for this)

 

Or that BBS would end with the characters where they were?

 

Or that Ansem SoD was really an impostor? 

 

Or that Castle Oblivion was really another world locked away?

 

Or that in KH2 Sora was playing into the Organizations hands and creating Kingdom Hearts before Axel told him? 

 

Tell me with a straight face you predicted any of that.

 

The series is far from predictable in the sense that 'nothing is a surprise'. There were lots of surprises. Sure i knew that Sora would win, that he would find the King and his friends, and return home, and defeat the organization. But the things that happened along the way, i usually did not see coming.

 

Now i will admit, i only started getting into theories and the forum about 2009-ish so i may have missed some of the discussion that had gone on. And i got into KH after KH2 came out (like 2007 ish) so it is possible that i missed the discussion and the conviction that Ansem SoD was an impostor, or what Castle Oblivion was, but i recall quite clearly no one predicting accurately any of this.

 It definately put the emphasis on the heart and soul of a person, whereas the entire notion of a master "bestowing" it upon someone kind of takes away that idea of you getting it because you're good, and puts it more on an arbitrary choice made by someone else. Even if the effect is still the same, in that the keyblade still jumps ship to join Sora, having a third party introduced into the equation just makes it feel more trivial, really. It doesn't really matter that Sora's a good person, it just matters that Terra just so happened to swing by Destiny Islands one day. It just feels like it takes away a lot of a story that is based around the heart when it turns out that the heart you have doesn't matter as much as you thought.

 

 

 

 The only reason why it keeps being revealed that everything you've done is for nothing is a cheap device to prop up Xehanort and make it out to look like he's a competent villain,... With Xehanort, you're being manipulated as a cheap way of making the villain look smart, and you look dumb by comparison. It's almost become the case where Xehanort is the main character, if only because he's driving the plot right now, while everyone else is caught in a constant state of reaction. 

 

The main issue I have with with making it so all of your victories prior meant nothing is that it feels like I've been wasting my time, which, after putting a whole lot of hours into a game, feels less like an element of humanity and more like I'm being jerked around. If at any point I could have accomplished the same thing simply by NOT playing the game, seeing as Xehanort was going to make it through regardless, then what was the point of playing the game? 

 

The Xehanort stuff i agree has been over done at this point. I mean, after bbs explained things, it was cool- but by the time 3D came around, it was like 'really? again?'

Yeah, it sorta lost me when they introduced the whole time travel element for his ultimate plans. I agree it has become very annoying.

 

As for the prior victories meaning nothing, i didnt feel like my time had been wasted. It felt like just the next chapter in a story. We came back from the war, learned the battle we fought was for next to nothing, but still needed to be fought. We feel sad, but we still feel like we did what we needed to do. And now, a new evil has sprung up, and we are off to fight it too. Wars never do stay over for long after all. We go, we fight, we win and then wait for the next one- and there is always a next one. 

I guess it is just a difference in opinion in how the game made us feel when that rug got pulled out from under us. You felt more annoyed. Where i was more intrigued as to what it meant for the story and felt even more gunghoe about continuing on and finding out.

People will always be unhappy regardless of how the mysteries play out, and especially if they don't play out at all. I'm happy having learned about the lore (which is why BBS constantly vies for my favorite KH game), and look forward to learning more things in greater detail.

Nothing can compared to the mysteries in KH1.

But there's still plenty of stuff going on know.  I find Ephemera and the Foretellers pretty mysterious.  Plus there's bound to be stuff in KH3 that will probably leave us confused and running a million theories through our heads once we see a decent trailer.

I sure hope so, khoathkeeper13, i sure do...

I remember back in KH2, when everyone was trying to figure out who Axel was. Then that silly theory about him being Riku's Nobody started.

 

 

Ah, good times....good times..

I recall hearing a theory once that the riku that appeared in deep dive was a nobody named Kurix. I dont remember how or why this got started, but it is just so weird to think back when we really just had no idea.

 

Does anyone remember back when we were still trying to figure out what 'Unbirths' were? I recall threads upon threads of just speculation about what that name could mean. There were people who thought they were ghosts, or the spirits of people who died before they were born and so on. And how everyone felt when it turned out that wasnt even their name? Oh, i couldnt help but laugh! I've heard that back when people were trying to figure out who the hooded boy in Deep Dive was, that people called him BHK (blonde haired Kid). It is just so interesting to go back and look at old posts like that and think, 'Wow, we just had no idea what was coming.'

1: Xehanorts ramblings about destiny have always seemed like bad justifications for what he has done. Life is a series of choices, and he acts as though he is God- deciding these peoples destinies for them. His ramblings always reek of someone with a narcissistic God complex trying to explain and justify his terrible acts.

 

2: Bad writing? Yes there are a few moments where i agree with you, but looking at the series as a whole, i think the writing is very good. The few lines they dedicate to the realization that what they have been doing is wrong or playing into the villains hands, i think were fine. And they did have very good reactions in my opinion.

 

The moment in KH2 when Sora realized he is being used by the organization to make Kingdom Hearts was great. He has his moment of doubt, and then reacts in so many words and actions that, 'I know that defeating the heartless is playing into their hands, but the heartless still need to be defeated. I really have no other choice. I can either stop fighting and let the heartless over run the worlds, or defeat them, save the worlds, and find a way to defeat the Organization.' 

 

Also, when Yen Sid realized that the Mark of Mastery exam has been hijacked, he has his moment of realization but at that point there is nothing he can really do. So he does what he can.

 

3: With things being constantly manipulated by Xehanort and his endless back up plans, i will give you that. It does take away from the main characters and kinda paints them as chumps who keep falling into Xehanorts hands. It makes them look like they dont have all that much agency in the game, and are just reacting to what the villain is doing. Though i think this problem really became a problem after KH2- and just unbearable in 3D. It seems like SE likes the villain more than our heroes sometimes. But it does make for an awesome villain. 

 

4: Predictable? Did you predict that they were gonna introduce time travel?

 

Or that the Keyblade was really a common man made weapon?

 

Or that when a Nobody and heartless are destroyed the original person comes back?

 

Or the true purpose of Organization 13?

 

Or Xigbar/Braigs involvement in Xemnas/Xehanorts plans?

 

That the main antagonist split his heart and put a piece of it inside of Braig?

 

Did you predict that yellow eyes and pointy ears didnt mean someone had bent to the darkness but really that they were harboring a piece of Xehanort inside them?

 

Did you predict that before we got KH3 that Sora, and Riku would go through the Mark of Mastery exam?

 

Did you predict that Axel now Lea was going to get a Keyblade?

 

Or that Saix/Isa was really a pawn in Xehanorts scemes to become a vessel like he was revealed to be in 3D?

 

Did you predict the true reason Chain of Memories happened at all? 

 

Did you predict that we would get three more main characters after KH2 and ANOTHER Xehanort?

 

Did you predict that the reason Roxas can dual wield is because he was harboring a completely different persons heart inside of him?

 

Or that the reason Roxas looks the way he does is because of said persons heart? (I dont recall when we found out that Ventus was a different character anyone suggesting the reason we were given for this)

 

Or that BBS would end with the characters where they were?

 

Or that Ansem SoD was really an impostor? 

 

Or that Castle Oblivion was really another world locked away?

 

Or that in KH2 Sora was playing into the Organizations hands and creating Kingdom Hearts before Axel told him? 

 

Tell me with a straight face you predicted any of that.

 

The series is far from predictable in the sense that 'nothing is a surprise'. There were lots of surprises. Sure i knew that Sora would win, that he would find the King and his friends, and return home, and defeat the organization. But the things that happened along the way, i usually did not see coming.

 

Now i will admit, i only started getting into theories and the forum about 2009-ish so i may have missed some of the discussion that had gone on. And i got into KH after KH2 came out (like 2007 ish) so it is possible that i missed the discussion and the conviction that Ansem SoD was an impostor, or what Castle Oblivion was, but i recall quite clearly no one predicting accurately any of this.

1. He's not rambling though, he's not some deluded guy, he knows what he's doing to an insane degree. He has employed TIME TRAVEL to ensure he has as much information as he has

 

2. KH has a handful of well executed moments that give a glimpse of what the story was INTENDED to be like, but they've completely botched it in almost every scenario.

Sora has no choice? Why not let Donald and Goofy fight? Find a new weapon? Use magic? Do they even NEED to be defeated? Every world has people capable of defeating Heartless. Yes the keyblade is the only thing that can permanently defeat a Heartless... but that doesn't really matter. There are still new Heartless, and as long as darkness exists in any hearts there will always be more Heartless.

 

When Yen Sid figured out it was hijakced he... continued to sit in his chair and do nothing. He didn't even have a contingency plan in case something went wrong NORMALLY in the exam.

 

4. Yes, some people genuinely predicted time travel with the Mysterious Figure boss fight.

-The keyblade being manmade isn't something that CAN be predicted, but it isn't really a twist either. Most people don't even know they're manmade because it wasn't REVEALED, it was just casually mentioned in some flavour text most people will ignore

 

-Lots of people figured they'd find a way to bring back Nobodies. It wasn't even revealed properly, Nomura just brought it up in interviews

 

-A lot of people suspected an ulterior motive because of some of the lines in KH2, like Saix talking about ending the "charade" then compound that with Braig being in BBS and being part Xehanort, the writing was on the walls

 

-Braig's eye colour was a dead give away about his connection to Xehanort

 

-That's just evolution of the working theory. About as soon as we saw Isa with different eye colour it became pretty clear.

 

-Sure you could predict the MoM test thing. Re:Coded secret ending explicitly states it, and I don't think anybody thought KH3 was next after  Re:Coded.

 

-I'll give you the Lea keyblade thing. They successfully tricked people into thinking keyblades were meaningful and not just a random thing you could get by asking.

 

-Again, eye colour. Isa's eyes are all you need, especially after finding out about Braig

 

-Did anybody really know the real reason CoM happened? We don't know how Sora ended up in the Land of Departure, and what happens with Sora and Riku is largely improvised and doesn't seem to relate much to the Organization's goals. If anything the reason CoM happened was so Xemnas could kill off half his Organization.

 

-Considering KH2's secret endings show three characters... not a hard jump to make

 

-The another Xehanort thing was a thing people figured out REALLY fast. They saw Terra in the secret ending, saw that he looked like Xehanort/Xemnas in KH2, assumed that the old man was Xehanort and that Terra got controlled in some way

 

-At the time there wasn't really anything that suggested Roxas needed a special reason to dual wield, that's less a reveal, more a bit of extra detail

 

-Since the secret endings of KH2 appeared to take place in the past, why wouldn't you figure that Ventus is the reason Roxas looks like that?

 

-Those characters HAD to end up there, it was a foregone conclusion. We saw stuff about Aqua Ventus and Terra in preceding games

 

-It's almost like Ansem wasn't meant to be an imposter

 

-Considering the world it was based on wasn't shown, that's not really something you could predict. People did say the Land of Departure looks a bit like Castle Oblivion though

 

-Saix literally says "Keep collecting more hearts" it's not exactly subtle

 

But here's the thing. That's not what people mean when they talk about predictability. Obviously you can't predict plot points that come completely out of nowhere. Predictability isn't about knowing the literal details of the next thing that happens, it's just being able to see the general direction something goes before it happens

 

Theories are theories, predictability is knowing that Riku is going to have another arc about THE DARKNESS in KH3

 

People will always be unhappy regardless of how the mysteries play out, and especially if they don't play out at all. I'm happy having learned about the lore (which is why BBS constantly vies for my favorite KH game), and look forward to learning more things in greater detail.

That's not true. Good writing is what it takes to make something pay off well.