outbackjim21

I get that BBS is you're least favorite and you don't want to discuss it, but I'm trying to understand how BBS brought out a lot of retcons. Everything within the story was pretty self contained, the main enemy (unversed) disappears realistically, the main villains get set up in their positions that were established in previous titles. And the trio are put into place so that they don't influnece events of the main series directly( aside from Terra) most if not all previous mysteries are explained, especially the importance of C.O, I don't see many retcons other than Master xehanort. But when I think of retcons I think of how in the first couple of transformers episodes the autobots are able to fly, then all of a sudden they can't without any explanation. To be honest, the biggest retcon would have to be the introduction of nobodies in KH2 seeing as it was never explained why they weren't around during the first game. Nor why they weren't in COM during the last level inside the actual castle oblivion layout when it had actual nobodies in the vicinity.

data sora as a character was composed of the memories from journal of the first KH adventure so he would have all of Sora's character development from the first game on the back burner not in the sense that he can access them, but he is born from them. And though it is a contrast as to how both reacted to losing the keyblade. Data sora still had friends to support him the entire way, where as sora lost both goofy and Donald, and also Riku. Which would have been a much harder blow than data sora simply having an already fake keyblade destroyed. Pain is a very human/relatable thing to discuss in any media, but recoded makes it seem like this insurmountable tasks that can't be done even though sora has already done it many times before. Even within this game, Data Roxas mentions hurt in the exact same context of what happened to sora during COM, with the memories of someone dear to you being forgotten causing hurt. And what did sora do without unnecessary added context of hurt, he overcame it. Coded just fluffs up content that already occurred or is going to occur (in the cas of BBS since it wasn't out yet when the mobile game was finished) it adds insight I will admit, but it isn't thought provoking in the grand scheme of things especially with Sora's characterization seeing as he's already done all of this beforehand.Kingdom hearts has always been a fast paced game, unlike games like dark souls, zero lag guards and invincibility frames are necessary in some situations, unlike the souls series, most enemies' attacks aren't telegraphed in the sense that there is a huge wind up unless it's a charge attack or a reaction command. I will admit that the shotlocksystem was bad, but then again I rarely used it due to how cheap it was, (reason why I avoided flow motion in 3d as well). But I'm going to have to disagree with you on the characterization of the bbs trio( excluding Terra because he was badly written) each character's ending May be forced in order to line up with the main series, but you can't deny the reasoning of each character that lead them to their respective end. All of it can be traced back to eraqus in a sense, but having it so that each character trusting every other character rather than themselves and the other two is Shakespearean tragedy in a nut shell. And for you to say that their tragedies are meaningless is to say that the lesson of learning to deal with hurt caused by that tragedy is meaningless as well seeing as that was the whole point of data Namine and data Roxas testing data sora to see if he can deal with the hurt of the people he has to save.Now I don't think we played the same 358 days game seeing as it turned an entire organization that you were taught to despise in both COM and KH2 (aside from obvious exceptions) and actually humanized them to an extent, they even made Xigbar and saix somewhat relatable, much more so with saix. And simply reading the secret reports gave you, the player, insight into each members goals as to why they joined the org and how they viewed themselves and other nobodies. You can hate on days gameplay, but it was trying its best to simulate the kh2 gameplay just without all the bells and whistles that kh2 had. It even shows with how some of Roxas combos are kh2 Sora's combos. Also in regards to xion, Roxas needed a lot more than a simple"who am I" conflict inorder for him to be a truly tragic character, he needed to lose something in order to push him forward. Just having Roxas be friends with axel throughout all of 358 and all of a sudden have Roxas say "everyone's keeping secrets from me, screw this" (even though no one would be keeping secrets since Xion isn't around)would just be more of an asspull than just leaving xion in the game xion also gave more insight into the growth of a heart even more so than recoded and the Tron world's did. I mean having a nobody, a being who isn't meant to have a heart, create another artificial existence that was always meant to be a puppet desire a heart and shows growth of one. Granted, it was done earlier with repliku, but xion actually gave the process depth.when you say that the world's are a unique remix, a remix in what way, honestly with the side scrolling, basic rpg attack/defend, and whatever wonderland was, I felt like I was playing a game designed for a mobile pho... Never mind, but seriously the system sectors were a nice touch, just not that great due to the fact that it literally can be lifeless seeing as the layouts are so similar, but that's because of plot rather than game design.To be honest, ever since Jesse McCartney did young justice, he doesn't "sound" like Roxas anymore, he sounds more like robin, but right now DDDs Roxas is stronger in my head than recoded's is.

On what grounds are you comparing the games, by story, or by gameplay? Either way BBS is the most pronounced in terms of gameplay, its pretty much the reason coded has deck commands to begin with (even though it all stems from crisis core) it had a bunch of unnecessary minigames, but the core gameplay was solid, it was even improved upon in the hd remix. In terms of story, 358 days did what it set out to do, explain what happened to roxas during his year in the org, the writing was concise on his growth and even humanized some of the other members.BBS was very thorough on connecting plotpoints to KH1, some characterization flaws aside *cough terra *cough* the characters were well drawn out and the dilemmas that made this game earn the ironic tragedy tag was consistent. Recoded was just stale in terms of plot, im not sure how you can say its well written when its just a bunch of existential nonsense of what it means to hurt and be hurt, which was hammered into the players brain every level in the castle oblivion segments. Not to mention the nomura troll involving the possibility of mickey being in traverse town the day sora arrived, (but thats just a personal gripe i have, same with the vanitas onein DDD) it really was a rehash of KH1 and COM story what with the worlds visited, sora losing the keyblade only to believe in himself again in order to regain it, to the levels of doubt he had about himself while traversing C.O. Though i will admit, another good thing that recoded did was allow Non japanese a chance to fight roxas, so yeah, other than that and the matrix, it doesnt do anything another KH has already done in the past.

its not, but when it comes to Rpgs, story is a huge deal. And i admitted that there were some good things about the gameplay, but unlike the other two in the prequel-midquel-sequel trilogy it doesnt add anything new to the table, bbs added deck commands(greatest addition to kh imo) days added what an actual multiplayer KH experience might be like in KH3. The only thing gameplay wise that really stood out was the matrix, and i doubt that feature will return in any upcoming KH games. If youre referring to the secret movie that involves young xehanort,... That was shoehorned into that movie, it could have easily have been put into the BBS secret ending and would have made more sense for it to be there as well, heck the yen sid secret ending that talks about the mark of mastery exam would have fit better in the BBS secret ending as well. But if youre talking about the scene with malfiecent and the book of prophecies, that relates more to chi having more relevance in KH3 rather than recoded itself.But anyway, its your opinion, i just disagree with it,... And so does almost half the people who voted in this poll...statistics (emoji for shrug)

the hate is well deserved, it offers little to nothing on the story front, other than shoehorn in a reason for maleficent and pete to stay relevant in kh3. And yen sid should have been prepared for the return of xehanort, so its not like we needed recoded to warn mickey of impending danger. The only thing good about recoded is the customization when it came to difficultly and finally seeing sora use deck commands, other than that, not much was contributed to the series as a whole.

There's really no reason for xehanort to don the armor though, from whats been described, it doesnt boost your power any, it just protects you from darkness,...and allows you to breathe in space. If anything, it might even be a hindrance for him if he were to call upon the full power of darkness.

Pretty much a God that will influence eventswithin it's direct vacinity and can supposedly be influenced by an individual's will.

Why? Lightning is literally meant to be the female version of cloud, it would just be in bad taste to put them in the same game. there are so many other FF characters that deserve a shot in the next KH game, Cecil and kain are the top candidates in my book, rinoa (she was hinted at)...hell even warrior of light deserves it more than lightning. I get the appeal of lightning, but she and the games she stars in are just bland in my opinion (combat system is good, everything else...)

not going to lie. when kairi's grandmother was introduced i was expecting some ansem the wise level of knowledge, not just the keyblade war story with a voiceover, i also thought she would play a stronger role, but then i realized she isnt wearing unnesscary/flamboyant FF-style clothing so that cant be possible. Would still be a mindtruck and asspull if she was though.

Though she has had little to know character development throughout the entire series, that's not the point I'm making, the point is the subtle things that define her character. as isamu pointed out, Kairi can look past the darkness that cloaks over others and see them for who they really are, with both Riku and sora when he became a heartless. Kairi is pure light in all manners of the concept of a somebody, where as eraqus, someone who wants to be that would not be able to look past the darkness. If eraqus was in Kairi's shoes and saw Riku as ansem, eraqus would try and strike Riku, same for sora. You see him take those exact actions against ventus and Terra, students that he loved with all his heart, but he thought darkness was going to take them. So you can see the subtle parallels between these two charactersAnd though it is likely that yen aid is of the trio, there are still moments that can lend doubt to it, seeing as how eraqus and xehanort are explicitly shown to have a brotherly bond, while eraqus refers to yen aid as if he was just a colleague, not to say that eraqus was just more familiar with xehanort than yen aid during training, but most of not all the trios in the game share a very strong bond, and even after they went their ape rate ways, eraqus still spoke to xehanort with a very friendly tone. I mean if you look at it, Mickey and ventus are a perfect example of how those three knew each other, yet didn't train together.

Okay, I can see it now, it's not an outright confirmation, but it has a higher chance of being the case. Yen Sid could be considered neutral to some degree, he doesn't really act, he just releases information or helps those who ask, but that third seat should be filled by someone though seeing as it implies that there is a "rule of three" when the successor to LoD has to train students.

its possible, but i just don't see it due to how yen sid refers to xehanorts during cutscenes and how its with an unfamiliar tone and how he is always saying things like "could he truly be" yada yada yada, that just gives me the idea that he knows of xehanort and his plans, but doesnt Actually know him

eraqus has never explicitly stated this, nor has it ever been actually implied, in either xehanorts reports or otherwise

no way, along the ten year gap, the fall of radiant garden has to be closer to BBS than KH. I vaguely remember a scene where sora and riku(with their 4year old models) were talking about a new girl at the mayor's house, so it has to be closer to BBS

The series really enjoys the idea of a trio when it comes to KH original characters, except when it comes to eraqus and xehanort. As we've seen in BBS, the land of departure has three thrones too, assumingly, go along with the theme of light, twilight, and darkness representing a character's alignment. Xehanort and eraqus are pretty much the bad version of kairi and riku, eraqus, trying, to embody pure light,thinking light is the only way, and xehanort thinking that light should give way to darkness so that darkness caan stand on equal ground(this reasoning doesnt make him neutral) ,...but what about twilight/neutral. If we are still going with the idea of the inverted version of the original trio, then sora, who is good neutral, should have an inverted version aswell. Could the third apprentice be true neutral and that they do not care one way or the other what happens between the realm of the light and the realm of darkness, it would explain why we have never seen them before nor why they haven't been mentioned before. Thoughts?

I honestly don't recall a single FF boss' final form being set up other than chaos in FF1 and kefka in FF6, but as for world of chaos, yeah like oblivion 22 said, it's just an amalgamation of all of the darkness ansem SoD had at his disposal especially since they were so close to the dark realm. As for marluxia and Xemnas, we'll both of their final forms are machines, it's not out of the question that they themselves could have built it. If they can build an artificial kingdom hearts it can't be too hard to build a battlestar class transforming castle.

The fight with mysterious figure and lingering will are stated to be within canon, its not clear what nomura means, either the fights are schrodingers cat and that they may or may not have happened until a character affirms that the fight did happen in another game( such as with xemnas in KH:FM) or if the fight did happen, but not in the capacity that was presented to us. Such as how maybe only terra was the one to fight MF and not ventus and aqua. Either way with the fights being within canon, its up to nomura to decide what elements of that fight to be used and which to be left out i suppose. Im going to add to this list and say even and dilan, only because they were the only ones who were still in critical condition during 3d and that they are close to the ideology of xehanort, especially Even and his lust for knowledge

I don't think so, nomura stated the positions of the seat in "where nothing gathers" is a strong clue as to who the true members will be, and xigbar has always been on the lowest levels of the seats, and there wasn't anyone sitting close to him in terms of height during 3d, so i don't think there would be two versions of him, especially one who would have done even less missions than the nobody version.

yeah, but unfortunately, chi has been made strict canon with the main series and the eye of darkness can be seen on all of the union leaders keyblades, honestly its up in the air as to what that symbol truly means, either the union leaders are actually devoted to darkness, or the symbol has a deeper meaning than simply being releated to darkness.

i don't think so, braig has a very unique variation of the black coat with the shoulder pads being pointed and such, i don't recall seeing another member wearing that set, not that it isn't possible, though it would be lazy as hell if they went with that idea,.. Though i cant deny it would be hilarious to have both braig and xigbar on screen at the same time.

yeah, its one of the reasons people went into an uproar when the red eyes in BBS final mix was shown and in 3d when the nightmare was shown to have red eyes

thats not necessarily the point of xehanort implanting his heart into the seekers, what better way to get "organized" than to have everyone share the exact same heart and mind just throughout different bodies (you saw how unorganized the original 13 were when they were all separate individuals) Its more about control than anything, and vanitas would probably need to get a heart transfusion due to how the novels characterize him as being emotionally unstable.

well when he was born, he had red eyes, so its definitely leaning toward the idea that he has a part of xehanort inside of him, it would also semi explain why vanitas wasn't unstable while the original, ventus, was.

and i respect yours, but i feel that the entire game lacked a true direction, in terms of story and dungeon design, that robot desert area, it is probably one of the worst dungeons i have ever encountered in a 3d zelda game, but the gameplay was what you would expect from a wii game. Pretty much, there just wasnt an overall theme to the story like with any of the other 3d zeldas, the story just...goes, wind waker is probably the greatest when it comes to establishing its themes and following through with them, with how the entire games story is about the "change" that occured and is occuring in hyrule, WW even goes metaphysical with that theme by changing the gameplay and art style. But skyward sword just felt like a game that was made to explain the origins of things in other zelda games.

By making it so that demise is the cause behind ganondorf being the person that he is, it takes away from ganondorf as a character, as someone who had a choice, but made a bad one, to someone who was always destined to fight link and zelda, in wind waker, you truly get to see ganondorf being humanized and see that he truly did love his people, but that love was overshadowed by his jealousy of hyrule and that caused him to choose to take hyrule for himself. Skyward sword just...it just urggghhh so many things wrong with that game, in terms of lore, c'mon, a dark master sword, i mean really.