I know I bitched about Birth by Sleep a lot...but this point is so stupid it's hard to overlook because it offers a piss-poor explanation of a battle mechanic in KH2

 

Was Nomura drinking some beers with Zagnief when he was thinking of this idea???

 

Since when you ever heard of "You need two hearts to wield two of the same weapon" and thought of it as a good explanation???

 

And before you pull the bullshit that is "Sora can only wield the keyblade because of Ventus"....no he isn't.It was clearly explained that the Kingdom Key keyblade went to Sora when Riku joined the dark side and later on accepted it as it's new master

 

The only thing that Ven's heart add is dual wielding(The ability to wield two keyblades) and that's where I call bullshit.

 

In what fantasy or fiction did a warrior needed an extra heart to wield another blade and made any kind of sense???

 

Let's apply this thing on other examples to see how jarring it is:

 

Gilgamesh from FF5.....does he need six hearts to wield the six weapons he uses???

 

Let's take another stupid example shall we

 

Imagine you were in the world of Pokemon starting your Journey...you get your starter...you go the wild and right before you try to catch that Pidey,the words of Professor Oak echoes:HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD IT.YOU NEED 5 MORE HEARTS IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO TRAIN 5 MORE POKEMON.......Doesn't make any sense now,does it?.

 

The Dual wield has never affected the story in any major way except for Roxas....who basically wields his own Keyblade and Sora's Keyblade due to their connection as a human and his nobody.....at least this make a little bit of sense than the two hearts crap

 

So why in the world does a gameplay mechanic in KH2 that doesn't affect neither the story or the cutscenes(except for Roxas) needs a half-assed explanation like this??

 

Sure Sora might use more Dual Wielding in KH3 from the descriptions we've seen so far about the new trailer.....BUT HE SHOULDN'T NEED AN EXTRA HEART TO BEGIN WITH

 

 

Kingdom Hearts is still my favorite series of all time,I still love it...but I hope for this explanation(which hasn't been mentioned in the game but by Nomura) to be either retconned or never implement it again

 

The Keyblade,even though it might be the strongest weapon,is still a sword no matter how you look at it just as the likes of Excalibur or even Soul Calibur and Soul Edge

 Well you are entitled to believe what you want . Nomura's words state differently but you can think what you like .

 

I disagree on the point that he's entitled to believe what he wants. That does not apply here. Canon directly states that he's wrong, and therefore, he is wrong... no amount of entitlement can stop his wrongness.

I disagree on the point that he's entitled to believe what he wants. That does not apply here. Canon directly states that he's wrong, and therefore, he is wrong... no amount of entitlement can stop his wrongness.

 I know but I'm not gonna argue in circles with him  . We all know Nomura's words are canon fact so I agree with you 100 % . 

Edited October 14, 201312 yr by Flaming Lea

I think you're blowing this out of proportion.

 

First off, Riku's keyblade going to Sora instead is only PART of the reason he can wield the Keyblade. The OTHER PART is because he holds Ven's heart, since Ven is a Keyblade wielder.

 

Second, the Keyblade works in relationship to people's hearts. NOTHING ELSE. To say that it is just a sword like any other weapon in any other game (or gods forbid, pokeballs...) is irrelevant because none of those examples you listed have anything to do with hearts. ANYBODY can use a sword, or other weapon, or....*sigh* a pokeball..., but NOT EVERYONE can use a Keyblade. It requires a strong heart to do that. It also requires the blessing of another Keyblade Master/Wielder. The weapons in Soul Calibur or Final Fantasy don't work that way, they have their own natures and their own rules. To compare the Keyblade to the main weapon (or ball) of any other game or story is like trying to compare a leaf to a rock.

 

If something particular were to affect someone's heart, such as say having "two" of them, then the Keyblade's nature in relation to that person are likely to change as well. Sora's ability to wield two Keyblades either stems from his relationship with Roxas or Ventus. And if you take into account the fact that Roxas is born from Ventus, then you basically have the answer coming from the same source.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure it was confirmed that Roxas's second Keyblade came from Xion after her death. It was the one that transformed into the Oathkeeper. But since EVERYBODY is connected to Sora, anything could apply by this point.

 

Sometimes the things Nomura says don't make much sense at first, and sometimes they are never mentioned again. He originally said that "The Voice" in Dive into The Heart was supposed to be Mickey's, but after everything that's happened, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ven's voice this whole time...but who knows. It doesn't bug me that much.

 

What really bugs me are plot holes. ESPECIALLY plot holes created by Nomura himself. In Days, Roxas and Xion nearly collapsed in Castle Oblivion because, according to Nomura in an interview, they were so close to both Sora AND Ventus, their original selves, that their heads couldn't handle all of the memories rushing into them. But when that scene happened, it is a good 40+ days or so after Diz and Namine moved Sora to Twilight Town.....THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!! How could they be in the presence of BOTH Sora AND Ventus, when by that time ONLY ONE OF THEM WAS THERE!! And he couldn't have been left behind either! Axel and the Organization cleared out the place. Sora was moved so they couldn't get him. Ventus was sleeping there alone. NO ONE ELSE.

 

Explain Nomura. EXPLAIN!!!!!!!!!!

I think you're blowing this out of proportion.

 

First off, Riku's keyblade going to Sora instead is only PART of the reason he can wield the Keyblade. The OTHER PART is because he holds Ven's heart, since Ven is a Keyblade wielder.

 

Second, the Keyblade works in relationship to people's hearts. NOTHING ELSE. To say that it is just a sword like any other weapon in any other game (or gods forbid, pokeballs...) is irrelevant because none of those examples you listed have anything to do with hearts. ANYBODY can use a sword, or other weapon, or....*sigh* a pokeball..., but NOT EVERYONE can use a Keyblade. It requires a strong heart to do that. It also requires the blessing of another Keyblade Master/Wielder. The weapons in Soul Calibur or Final Fantasy don't work that way, they have their own natures and their own rules. To compare the Keyblade to the main weapon (or ball) of any other game or story is like trying to compare a leaf to a rock.

 

If something particular were to affect someone's heart, such as say having "two" of them, then the Keyblade's nature in relation to that person are likely to change as well. Sora's ability to wield two Keyblades either stems from his relationship with Roxas or Ventus. And if you take into account the fact that Roxas is born from Ventus, then you basically have the answer coming from the same source.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure it was confirmed that Roxas's second Keyblade came from Xion after her death. It was the one that transformed into the Oathkeeper. But since EVERYBODY is connected to Sora, anything could apply by this point.

 

Sometimes the things Nomura says don't make much sense at first, and sometimes they are never mentioned again. He originally said that "The Voice" in Dive into The Heart was supposed to be Mickey's, but after everything that's happened, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ven's voice this whole time...but who knows. It doesn't bug me that much.

 

What really bugs me are plot holes. ESPECIALLY plot holes created by Nomura himself. In Days, Roxas and Xion nearly collapsed in Castle Oblivion because, according to Nomura in an interview, they were so close to both Sora AND Ventus, their original selves, that their heads couldn't handle all of the memories rushing into them. But when that scene happened, it is a good 40+ days or so after Diz and Namine moved Sora to Twilight Town.....THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!! How could they be in the presence of BOTH Sora AND Ventus, when by that time ONLY ONE OF THEM WAS THERE!! And he couldn't have been left behind either! Axel and the Organization cleared out the place. Sora was moved so they couldn't get him. Ventus was sleeping there alone. NO ONE ELSE.

 

Explain Nomura. EXPLAIN!!!!!!!!!!

 Nomura has already stated that Sora was always destined to wield and that Ven only gives him the ability to dual wield . Roxas and Sora both wield Sora's keyblade and Ven's . Xion's keyblade was fake - a replica as stated in game by Riku and by Nomura below  . Roxas was Sora's nobody with Ven's heart in him thus giving him Ven's appearance.

 

 

 

Q1: Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?

A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas� body, is Ventus� heart.

 

As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus� heart are linked (P.646). And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

 

[picture: Little Sora and Ventus� heart]

Ven: �Can I become one with your heart again?�

 

When he was born into the world, he linked with Ventus filling his fractured heart. Many years later, when Ventus was on the verge of disappearing after his fight with Vanitas, Sora took him into his own heart.

 

 

Q2: Why did Roxas faint in Castle Oblivion on Day 297?

A: Because he had gotten to close to both Sora and Ventus, his �real self�.

 

Before Day 297 in Days Sora had been to Castle Oblivion, as well as the fact that Ventus is asleep somewhere in the Room of Awakening. Both Sora and Ventus can be called Roxas� �real selves�, and when he felt their presence it made him faint.

 

[picture: Axel and Roxas]

 

When Roxas went to Castle Oblivion the memories of his �real selves� made him confused.

 

[picture: Ventus asleep]

 

Ventus asleep in a room in the castle.

 

 

Q3: Is it possible that Roxas has a heart?

A: It is thought that it could be Ventus� heart.

 

In KHII FM there were clues to him having a heart, and in Days we saw Roxas crying--proof that he could have a heart. As was said in Q1, he has taken a lot of himself from Ventus. But perhaps when Sora and Roxas were separated, Ventus� heart stayed in Roxas?

 

[picture: Roxas crying]

 

On Day 357, Roxas cries after losing his friend Xion.

 

[picture: Little Sora and Ventus� heart]

 

Sora links with Ventus to help heal him.

 

 

Q4: Why can Roxas dual-wield?

A: Because he can use both Sora�s and Ventus� keyblades.

 

Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus� as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield.

 

[picture: Roxas and Riku fighting]

 

Roxas awakens his ability to dual-wield with his will to not forget Xion who also wielded a keyblade.

 

 

Namine tells Riku that in order for Sora�s memories to be restored, both Sora�s Nobody and Xion must no longer exist. So he takes it on himself to defeat them, but when he and Roxas fought, was that the first time he had realized that Roxas was that Nobody? 

 

Nomura: Riku only realizes it when Roxas takes off his hood and he can see his face, and he responds to his call. Until then he only half believed. When he first met Xion, he didn�t think that she was Sora or Kairi�s Nobody, and it was the same with Roxas. When he first saw Roxas, he had no proof of who he was. So that�s why he lost to Roxas, he was surprised at him using a real keyblade rather than an imitation like Xion's, and he called out to him. Part of Riku didn�t really want to believe that his best friend really had a Nobody.

 

 

ALSO :Roxas and Xion's incidents 

Day 26: Roxas faints 

-- In order for the changes in Sora's memories to progress. 

 

Day 74: Xion becomes unable to use the Keyblade 

-- As a counterbalance to the power absorbed when Roxas awakens. 

 

Day 193: Xion, having been defeated by Heartless and gone to sleep, wakes up, then during a mission collapses, but soon gets up again. 

-- While she was asleep Sora's memories continued to flow into Roxas. Due to the memories being reconnected. 

 

Day 297: Roxas faints 

-- A result of going to Castle Oblivion, where Sora is sleeping, and getting too close to his "true form".

Edited October 15, 201312 yr by Flaming Lea

That doesn't mean two keyblades can't be tied to one heart

 

The Master Sword is a different story

 

It's been said that only the hero of time can wield it.....and it has been wielded by more than one Link,it has been used by different generations of link,and Link still can use another sword like the Goron Sword not just the Master Sword

 

Unlike the Master Sword,the keyblade properties hasn't been fully explained or even delved deep into

It was never stated that the Master Sword can only be weilded by the Hero of Time (Ocarina of Time Link). The Master Sword is only weilded to those who are descendents to the Link from Skyward Sword since Skyward Sword Link was the one who even made the Master Sword to begin with. So of course all the other Links are going to be able to use it. They are somewhat related to the Link from Skyward Sword.

Edited October 15, 201312 yr by Tails

 Nomura has already stated that Sora was always destined to wield and that Ven only gives him the ability to dual wield . Roxas and Sora both wield Sora's keyblade and Ven's . Xion's keyblade was fake - a replica as stated in game by Riku and by Nomura below  . Roxas was Sora's nobody with Ven's heart in him thus giving him Ven's appearance.

 

 

 

Q1: Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?

A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas� body, is Ventus� heart.

 

As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus� heart are linked (P.646). And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

 

[picture: Little Sora and Ventus� heart]

Ven: �Can I become one with your heart again?�

 

When he was born into the world, he linked with Ventus filling his fractured heart. Many years later, when Ventus was on the verge of disappearing after his fight with Vanitas, Sora took him into his own heart.

 

 

Q2: Why did Roxas faint in Castle Oblivion on Day 297?

A: Because he had gotten to close to both Sora and Ventus, his �real self�.

 

Before Day 297 in Days Sora had been to Castle Oblivion, as well as the fact that Ventus is asleep somewhere in the Room of Awakening. Both Sora and Ventus can be called Roxas� �real selves�, and when he felt their presence it made him faint.

 

[picture: Axel and Roxas]

 

When Roxas went to Castle Oblivion the memories of his �real selves� made him confused.

 

[picture: Ventus asleep]

 

Ventus asleep in a room in the castle.

 

 

Q3: Is it possible that Roxas has a heart?

A: It is thought that it could be Ventus� heart.

 

In KHII FM there were clues to him having a heart, and in Days we saw Roxas crying--proof that he could have a heart. As was said in Q1, he has taken a lot of himself from Ventus. But perhaps when Sora and Roxas were separated, Ventus� heart stayed in Roxas?

 

[picture: Roxas crying]

 

On Day 357, Roxas cries after losing his friend Xion.

 

[picture: Little Sora and Ventus� heart]

 

Sora links with Ventus to help heal him.

 

 

Q4: Why can Roxas dual-wield?

A: Because he can use both Sora�s and Ventus� keyblades.

 

Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus� as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield.

 

[picture: Roxas and Riku fighting]

 

Roxas awakens his ability to dual-wield with his will to not forget Xion who also wielded a keyblade.

 

 

Namine tells Riku that in order for Sora�s memories to be restored, both Sora�s Nobody and Xion must no longer exist. So he takes it on himself to defeat them, but when he and Roxas fought, was that the first time he had realized that Roxas was that Nobody? 

 

Nomura: Riku only realizes it when Roxas takes off his hood and he can see his face, and he responds to his call. Until then he only half believed. When he first met Xion, he didn�t think that she was Sora or Kairi�s Nobody, and it was the same with Roxas. When he first saw Roxas, he had no proof of who he was. So that�s why he lost to Roxas, he was surprised at him using a real keyblade rather than an imitation like Xion's, and he called out to him. Part of Riku didn�t really want to believe that his best friend really had a Nobody.

 

 

ALSO :Roxas and Xion's incidents 

Day 26: Roxas faints 

-- In order for the changes in Sora's memories to progress. 

 

Day 74: Xion becomes unable to use the Keyblade 

-- As a counterbalance to the power absorbed when Roxas awakens. 

 

Day 193: Xion, having been defeated by Heartless and gone to sleep, wakes up, then during a mission collapses, but soon gets up again. 

-- While she was asleep Sora's memories continued to flow into Roxas. Due to the memories being reconnected. 

 

Day 297: Roxas faints 

-- A result of going to Castle Oblivion, where Sora is sleeping, and getting too close to his "true form".

 

Yeah, yeah, alright, that's all fine and good. I'll give you that.

 

But MY point still remains. How could Roxas faint from being to close to both Sora AND Ventus at the same time on DAY 297, WHEN SORA WAS MOVED TO TWILIGHT TOWN ON DAY 95!!!???

 

IT. DOES NOT. COMPUTE!!!!

Yeah, yeah, alright, that's all fine and good. I'll give you that.

 

But MY point still remains. How could Roxas faint from being to close to both Sora AND Ventus at the same time on DAY 297, WHEN SORA WAS MOVED TO TWILIGHT TOWN ON DAY 95!!!???

 

IT. DOES NOT. COMPUTE!!!!

 

Well that could just be a mistake . Ven was still there and considered one of Roxas' true selves bc he had his heart .

Well that could just be a mistake . Ven was still there and considered one of Roxas' true selves bc he had his heart .

 

A mistake!? Nomura, the creator of the Kingdom Hearts franchise, made a MISTAKE on a detail THAT SIGNIFICANT!!?? THAT....IS.........incredibly human and most likely what happened. With a franchise this big full of plot twists so large, a single guy who is expected to keep track of all that as he creates more is bound to slip up once or twice. And even if he didn't, he may have left a detail or two out. They may have just left Sora there for 102 days and kept warping back and forth between the castle and the mansion...okay, that would actually be stupid, but that's not the point! There may have been SOMETHING to what he said, and if not, at least we have a good idea what happened, rather than just a speculation.

It's not that hard to explain, really:

 

Sora touching Ven's heart had an effect similar to the Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony - instead of him touching Ven's Keyblade, their hearts touched, and presumably since a Keyblade is so closely connected to the wielder's heart, that counted as touching it, hence giving him the ability to weild a Keyblade - ABILITY TO, mind you, not an actual Keyblade. He got his actual blade from Riku, as the latter had already lost his heart to the Darkness, and it became Sora's. Once Riku turned away from the Darkness, another Keyblade appeared to him to replace the one he had lost to Sora.

 

Sora, no matter how strong his heart is, can only wield one Keyblade. However, since Ven's heart is within him as well, he can use Ven's blade as well as his own, allowing him to dual-wield. Since Roxas is essentially an extension of Sora, he can use Sora's Keyblade, and by extension, Ven's.

 

I have a theory as to how dual-wielding will be implemented after Ven is saved: It is stated/implied (I can't remember if they actually SAY it) in Dream Drop Distance that Nobodies grow new hearts. Now, Roxas became more his own person than a part of Sora, so if any Nobody could grow a heart, it would be him. And Roxas is still within Sora. Since two hearts = two Keyblades, this could explain keeping dual-wielding even after Ven's heart is no longer resting within Sora.

 

... although I probably shouldn't talk, since I have this idea of Sora wielding the X-Blade at the end of Kingdom Hearts III which would be awesome, but probably wouldn't happen .-.

Doesn't he wield three Keyblades in Final Form? 

Doesn't he wield three Keyblades in Final Form? 

I think it was just two

Edited October 30, 201311 yr by ultimumknight