This isn't counting those connected him, Nobodies, or clones. I mean just between:

KH1, CoM, KH2, and DDD.

Of these versions which do feel Sora put his brains to their best efforts?

Edited March 2, 20169 yr by ReverofE

Potential for what? And how are they portrayed as such?

 

I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm just curious.

It will probably be sloppy since i'm tired but here i go 

 

I guess it depends on how you personally see the characters and what you know about them. I've read the wiki pages and in-game sources and analyzed the cutscenes in Japanese as well to hear the original words spoken. Our opinions will probably differ but basically these are my points

 

Both had decent development in the first game but over the series, out of the trio riku has gotten the most character development.

 

Sora and Kairi have been depicted as having a serious side, i,e, the kh2 box art, but square enix decides to focus on how they act on the surface around friends more, which would be fine except given events throughout the series it doesn't make sense for them to act like that all the time. Sora gets basically traumatized through the series and Kairi does to, to a lesser degree, and she survived the fall of radiant garden and it's implied she does somewhat remember it. The camera panned to her lips and she frowned, paused, and said she didn't. But in anime/games showing the character's lips up close like that and showing them reply by frowning and pausing is basically a trope/flag for ''This character is lying/responding with a white lie''. You really don't pan to a characters face like that for no reason, you don't put in the extra effort unless it is to convey something.

 

I personally get the feeling that Kairi is stronger than she lets on

 

In DDD, the scenes in twtnw made it seem like, to me, that Sora is partially faking his happiness. There's story potential here 

 

It's the polar opposite of riku who we know has a jokey side to him but is almost shown sometimes as a cliche anime jerk with silver hair. Which he isn't, but if you didn't know much about the character it would be easy to make that assumption which i guess is where all the yaoi comes from

 

I guess that's just me though

 

I mainly just wish they started writing all kh characters better 

It will probably be sloppy since i'm tired but here i go 

 

I guess it depends on how you personally see the characters and what you know about them. I've read the wiki pages and in-game sources and analyzed the cutscenes in Japanese as well to hear the original words spoken. Our opinions will probably differ but basically these are my points

 

Both had decent development in the first game but over the series, out of the trio riku has gotten the most character development.

 

Sora and Kairi have been depicted as having a serious side, i,e, the kh2 box art, but square enix decides to focus on how they act on the surface around friends more, which would be fine except given events throughout the series it doesn't make sense for them to act like that all the time. Sora gets basically traumatized through the series and Kairi does to, to a lesser degree, and she survived the fall of radiant garden and it's implied she does somewhat remember it. The camera panned to her lips and she frowned, paused, and said she didn't. But in anime/games showing the character's lips up close like that and showing them reply by frowning and pausing is basically a trope/flag for ''This character is lying/responding with a white lie''. You really don't pan to a characters face like that for no reason, you don't put in the extra effort unless it is to convey something.

 

I personally get the feeling that Kairi is stronger than she lets on

 

In DDD, the scenes in twtnw made it seem like, to me, that Sora is partially faking his happiness. There's story potential here 

 

It's the polar opposite of riku who we know has a jokey side to him but is almost shown sometimes as a cliche anime jerk with silver hair. Which he isn't, but if you didn't know much about the character it would be easy to make that assumption which i guess is where all the yaoi comes from

 

I guess that's just me though

 

I mainly just wish they started writing all kh characters better 

 

I already went into detail about Sora and his emotions, and you liked that post so I assume you read that too. If you're asking for Sora to be more pissy or angry, then no, that's not something I support. Like I explained, he's a different character overall. He doesn't dwell on hardship, he works through it. He doesn't need to be darker than he already is. That doesn't mean he has not be angry either, or any other emotion besides happy, just not in a way that makes you think his entire character is supposed to be composed of him being angry. Besides, what does he have to be angry about? He doesn't really care about being a Keyblade master, he's fully accepted that he has to help the ones connected to his heart, and in general, he's always looking forward. What other conflict that involves him having some kind of "breakdown" needs to be introduced?

 

Moving on though, I agree that Kairi being from another world, like other things in the first game, did get dropped as soon as it was introduced, which is a shame, but I don't know if it will serve any further purpose at this point given how ignored and unimportant to her character it has become. She certainly doesn't really care about being from Radiant Garden, so why should we? (Bear in mind, I actually wrote a thread once about this becoming a thing too. Ironic, isn't it?) Her current path with becoming a proper Keyblade wielder falls more in line with the characterization she's actually been given, with being left as a damsel and unable to truly contribute to helping her friends and wanting to change that. Plus, she's a Princess of Heart, which like the rest of the PoH are going to be a major focus in KH3 anyway, so she has that going for her too.

 

And one last tidbit: I don't think Riku is shown as cliche whenever he does a comedy line. Sora brings out the jokey side of him, and only then does he crack jokes. It makes sense. They tease each other like brothers, and always have.

I have to pick KH1. Sora was never the brightest surfboard but he at least understood to a degree in KH1 and learned as he went. I dont count COM Sora since he forgot.

I'm inbetween on KH3D since Sora didn't seem to be any smarter nor dumber. For KH2 I count him the "dumbest" one since he was portrayed like a shounen character rather than the normal boy of average intelligence I met in KH1.

I have to pick KH1. Sora was never the brightest surfboard but he at least understood to a degree in KH1 and learned as he went. I dont count COM Sora since he forgot.

I'm inbetween on KH3D since Sora didn't seem to be any smarter nor dumber. For KH2 I count him the "dumbest" one since he was portrayed like a shounen character rather than the normal boy of average intelligence I met in KH1.

 

There's a difference between being smart and being boring. Also, there's a difference between being cheerful and being stupid.

 

KH1 Sora wasn't as empathetic, which definetly counts of a lack of intelligence.

Edited June 1, 20169 yr by Firaga Sensei

There's a difference between being smart and being boring. Also, there's a difference between being cheerful and being stupid.

 

KH1 Sora wasn't as empathetic, which definetly counts of a lack of intelligence.

That's obviously more subjective than true. Sora still helps out everyone, makes friends, nothing about him is empathetic in any game. The KH2 Sora felt dumber since he felt more like an atypical Goku or other shounen. I had "dumbest" in quotation for that reason.

 

It was like he brushed things off with a cheerful smile in KH2 which isn't being so much cheerful as it is just glossing over or ignoring what he doesn't really get at points.

 

If your gonna argue this point over the opinion KH1 Sora was boring then this isn't so much facts as you trying to say your opinion of them is better than mine when it's a subjective point. Agree to disagree.

That's obviously more subjective than true. Sora still helps out everyone, makes friends, nothing about him is empathetic in any game. The KH2 Sora felt dumber since he felt more like an atypical Goku or other shounen. I had "dumbest" in quotation for that reason. It was like he brushed things off with a cheerful smile in KH2 which isn't being so much cheerful as it is just glossing over or ignoring what he doesn't really get at points.

 

He didn't gloss over anything. He does acknowledges everything that happens to him, he just chose not to dwell on grim details and possibilities and instead tackle them head on with his usual brand of optimism. That's being not stupid, it's being hopeful. It's still acceptance of reality, but not one that fully supports the worst outcomes, and it's much better than him being angsty. Angst does not equal intelligence, and neither does being bland and agreeing to everything i.e. KH1 Sora, it just makes you seem more annoying and stubborn. Why do you think people have such an aversion to Cloud, KH version or source?

Edited June 1, 20169 yr by Firaga Sensei

It's no secret that I prefer Riku over Sora, but still, to say Sora doesn't change at all up until the point you're describing is still wrong.

 

Going back into it, I didn't say he stopped being an optimist, I said his optimism was challenged, meaning he has had to grow and adapt to new situations that went beyond just his usual mindset of believing in himself and his friends. That means something. That means he sparked a change in himself. Sora in COM couldn't just rely on his old morals, he was struggling with parts of his own identity and the identity of others, and he delved deeper and even subverted some aspects of his prior philosophies about friendship. And in KH2, there's several examples of him being shown at the end of his rope in desperation over his objectives and questioning his own moral compass.

 

Still, while he doesn't get all super moody about these things (for the most part) for too long and he still remains optimistic, but what point would there be in just shattering all those ideals he's built up if there's no meaning left in them? The point to Sora as a whole is that yes, he is an optimist and he tries to see the best in everything but also that even through adversity, he still sees things through, all the while accepting reasonable change as it comes. It's not a bug, it's a feature. It shows true strength in one's heart to be able to shoulder burdens and still wear a smile on your face.

 

He doesn't need an edgelord moment where he gets his inner Riku on. Because that's not who he is, and it won't make him better as a result. Making a character do a 180 on themselves is not constructive.

 

 

He tried to convince Xemnas himself that a heart is more than just based on set emotions by the end of the game. He changed his viewpoints.

You can develop a character without having edgelord moments

 

KH1 developed Sora in a very good way with his interactions with the worlds and learning of the responsibility of a keyblade wielder from guys like King Triton for example and bonds of the hearts from Tarzan and the strength of the heart from Hercules......in KH1 he went from a basic islander into a wise warrior 

 

Every world in KH1 meant and added something to Sora's journey as they weren't just abridged versions of the movies like later entries they ADDED to the story

 

in KH2 onward however he was regressed into the most common shonen troupe out there.......The courageous but stupid hero,he went from being unique into basically the same as 90% of protagonists you find in shounen animes no different than the likes of Goku and Naruto and not as developed as the likes of Izuku Midoriya from My Hero Academia or Gon from Hunter x Hunter or Zidane from FF9 just to name a few

 

Yes Sora doesn't need to be 100% like the folks I mentioned above but that doesn't mean he's perfect or(in my case) even relatable

Edited June 1, 20169 yr by Smash Mega Koopa

You can develop a character without having edgelord moments.

 

Which is my point.

 

KH1 developed Sora in a very good way with his interactions with the worlds and learning of the responsibility of a keyblade wielder from guys like King Triton for example and bonds of the hearts from Tarzan and the strength of the heart from Hercules......in KH1 he went from a basic islander into a wise warrior 

 

Every world in KH1 meant and added something to Sora's journey as they weren't just abridged versions of the movies like later entries they ADDED to the story

 

If by "wise" you mean "slightly less ignorant and knowledgable about generic themes", then sure.

 

Every world in KH1 meant and added something to Sora's journey as they weren't just abridged versions of the movies like later entries they ADDED to the story.

 

When has a world, regardless of which one it is, not had a moral that directly ties into the overarching themes of the story? Because that's what matters. Can't we just explore a Disney film with SDG or whoever at the helm and enjoy it? Part of the experience isn't just meandering through the plot, it's experiencing plots within the plot, something even KH1 has done. I mean, Halloween Town? Atlantica? Monstro? Not important to the story. HT is just a TNBC level, Atlantica didn't provide anything of substance because the "responsibility of a Keyblade master" schtick is bullshit anyway, and Monstro's "puppet + heart" connection doesn't work in the confines of the narrative. It would have been better suited as a planned world for Days considering one of its protagonists actually was a puppet in a sense.

 

I'm not even going to touch the shounen protagonist argument because of how obviously generalized it is. Cheerful =/= stupidity, damn it.

Edited June 1, 20169 yr by Firaga Sensei

Which is my point.

 

 

If by "wise" you mean "slightly less ignorant and knowledgable about generic themes", then sure.

 

 

When has a world, regardless of which one it is, not had a moral that directly ties into the overarching themes of the story? Because that's what matters. Can't we just explore a Disney film with SDG or whoever at the helm and enjoy it? Part of the experience isn't just meandering through the plot, it's experiencing plots within the plot, something even KH1 has done. I mean, Halloween Town? Atlantica? Monstro? Not important to the story. HT is just a TNBC level, Atlantica didn't provide anything of substance because the "responsibility of a Keyblade master" schtick is bullshit anyway, and Monstro's "puppet + heart" connection doesn't work in the confines of the narrative. It would have been better suited as a planned world for Days considering one of its protagonists actually was a puppet in a sense.

 

I'm not even going to touch the shounen protagonist argument because of how obviously generalized it is. Cheerful =/= stupidity, damn it.

 

When and where did I say cheerful=stupidity...........Some of my favorite characters ever are very cheerful ones.

 

As for my KH1 argument..........in later games you just go through the movies' plots on your first visit with nothing added until the second visit where either AOrganization XIII shows their ugly faces or BIn the case of Agrabah's second visit in Kh2 repeat the plot of the sequel movie if there was one

 

At least in KH1,even with worlds like Monstro that didn't contribute much despite Riku being there or Olympus Colosseum being the basic tournament set up in most RPGs,at least they progressed the plot one way or another to your next destination rather than just be the plot of the movie but with Sora and heartless in

 

I don't need to sugarcoat shit if I didn't enjoy it just because it's from a favorite series of mine,I didn't like how Land of the Dragons(A.K.A Mulan's China) was handled in KH2,Pride Land bored me to tears,KH2's Atlantica is the worst world in the entire series and the Three Musketeers world in DDD was meh

 

 

Fine disagree I don't mind but don't assume and put words I didn't say like the dumb cheerful=stupid argument that was made

 

Better yet,how about we accept that we just can't agree on something and move on?

 

 

When and where did I say cheerful=stupidity...........Some of my favorite characters ever are very cheerful ones.

 

That wasn't entirely directed towards you, that was just something in general that I wanted to get off my chest.

 

And yeah, this is going nowhere, so let's just end it here.

It's so strange how they've been progressively making Sora dumber and dumber. Hopefully they change this in KH3.

It's so strange how they've been progressively making Sora dumber and dumber. Hopefully they change this in KH3.

 

No they haven't.

Look, I just wrote an entire paragraph in this thread arguing the opposite of what you're insinuating. 

 

Forgive me for being a bit tense if you just decide to ignore of all that.

 

I'm not ignoring it, it just didn't successfully persuade me. I still believe that Sora has been getting dumber and dumber. That's my opinion.

I'm not ignoring it, it just didn't successfully persuade me. I still believe that Sora has been getting dumber and dumber. That's my opinion.

 

Oh, so you did read it. Alright then.

 

I stand by my own opinion. 

Edited June 3, 20169 yr by Felixx

Hey guys, I had to edit some of your posts because they got too personal and off topic. Please try to be civil when discussing, and not getting personal in any kind. Thanks!

OOH sorry mr moderator Felixx ;)

 

Edited June 5, 20169 yr by Shinobi Palace

On 3/3/2016 at 3:14 AM, ReverofE said:

He was. However, based on his scenes in KH 2.5 you really couldn't see it that much...

Nah, I don't Think The Real Sora Ever Thought Logically Before Almost Always Getting Himself Killed In Battle Because He's not too tactical Therefore Incredibly Idiotic.

Re:Coded Data Sora Was Pretty Intelligent, He Figured Out All The Glitch Bugs And Everything He Said Sounded Like He was Very Smart Compared To That Doofus Sora.

Compared to Real Sora, Who Acted Incredibly Stupid in CoM Where He wanted to Keep The Fake Promise Implanted By Naminé of Protecting Her Even Though Kairi is his Real Important Person. I Agree With Larxene When She went "You're Such An Idiot!" To Sora Because Yes, He's been nothing but an Idiot So Thank You. Come On, Sora's been so stupid Even in KH2 Where He can't even Understand What A Nobody Is When Riku Confirmed That Roxas is His Nobody Or Figure out anything else. In KH3 He's even more Dumb, Sora couldn't even beat Xehanort Without The Help From His Other Friends. Don't get me started on DDD, Sora Could Barely Think Anything Before Charging into Battle Without A Plan Hoping Something Good Will Happen and Relying too much on Luck Like an Idiot.

Let's face it, Most People claim that Sora is a smart Guy But Isn't too Bright. But I Doubt It, He's obviously an Idiot That Don't Know How To Go Engage In A Battle Without A Logical Plan To Defeat Anybody. I Mean, This Whole Series with Sora I've been like "I might Hate Data-Sora and You, But In terms of Intelligence I'd go for Data-Sora For How Smart he is. Compared to, Sora the Big Doofus."