I know I might start a controversy, but I had to get it off my chest. Roxas, Xion, and Namine deserve to come back in Kingdom Hearts III. People will say they won't come back because they've met with their inner selves, but think about this-why would Nomura put hints of their return if they weren't meant to?

 

Still don't believe me? Then let me give you a little reminder about what happened to them.

 

Roxas: Had to take one of his only friends away from himself, was used as a pawn along with said friends to achieve godly power, had to endure severe torment to get Xion back, and was forced by Ansem the Wise (as DiZ) to merge with Sora, who he was looking for thinking it would revive Xion. And the worst part is, he no longer remembers Xion-only that he wanted to find Sora-because that affect hit everyone.

 

Namine: Was forced to rewrite Sora's memory against her will, blocked off from restoring it by Xion's existence, and could've been disposed of by Ansem the Wise, who was Nobody racist during his time as DiZ. Even he regrets messing with her and Roxas.

 

Xion: Was treated as JUST a puppet by Saïx and other members of the Orginization (minus Roxas and Axel), forced to fight Roxas to serve her initial purpose, and convinced by the misled Riku that Roxas didn't care about her. When she "died" after her final battle, she came to her senses and told Roxas not to let Xemnas have Kingdom Hearts.

 

And before you spout stupid crap like "oh but they've already come back to their respective people", Sora can still bring them back, as said by Ansem the Wise in DDD. Sora's heart is tied to them. Like I said, Nomura wouldnt've hinted at this if it didn't come true. I'm not just sitting around going "STFU RXN SHOULD COME BACK CUZ THAER MAH FAVRIT PEEPLE EVAAAAAR!!!!!"....even though it may sound like it. No, I'm justifying my reasoning. EVERYONE deserves a happy ending in KH3: the Sea Salt trio, the Wayfinder trio, the Destiny trio, Namine....it shouldn't JUST be "we must find the Wayfinder trio and defeat Xehanort. All is over once he's defeated." If they need extra help, then...well, what I said before.

 

What's your opinion about this little semi-argument of mine?

I think one of the reasons why a lot of people don't want these characters to return is because they believe it's the same as reviving them from the dead, when in actuality, they never died.

 

Another reason I think why people don't want them to return would be that it would lessen the impact of their 'deaths'/disappearances. While it mostly depends on one's personal perspective, I believe it doesn't make the sad scenes any less sad. The ending of KH1 still saddens me, even when I know that Riku and King Mickey make it out of the Realm of Darkness in the very next game.

 

The fact that these characters don't die is a good thing because instead of having them gone just like that, they sleep in hurt, suffering, pain and sadness that pushes these characters forward. While Axel returns as Lea in DDD, it doesn't lessen the impact of what he was willing to do in KH2; his actions showed that he wasn't just a heartless entity, but rather someone who was willing to give up their own being (or non-being) to help others. And because of these actions, Lea is now pushed with them and can now be a part of the team.

 

These characters have suffered more than long enough, whether it was by choice (such as Xion and Ventus) or by chance (such as Aqua and Roxas) and they deserve something:

 

A second chance.

 

They deserve another opportunity; the chance to be their own person. Sora himself sums this up perfectly in DDD in one sentence when encountering Roxas; "...you deserve as much as I do to be your own person."

 

Some people would say that their job is "done."

 

...What 'job' exactly? Saying that Xion, for example, shouldn't be saved because "her job was done" in Days is like saying that Riku should have stayed in the Realm of Darkness because "his job was done, he closed the door. Let's, y'know, NOT try and help get him out of there."

 

These characters' return is something that has been hinted/foreshadowed all the way back since BBS and has been hinted/foreshadowed again in Coded and DDD. Ansem the Wise, both in BBS and DDD, states how Sora can help return these characters and give them a new beginning, "their birth by sleep." Half of KH3's story (as far as we know) is to help return these characters; it was the main reason why Sora and Riku were tasked to unlock the Sleeping Keyholes, so they could obtain the power of waking.

 

Their return was the whole point of these cutscenes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A person can say all they want about whether or not these characters should return, but I treat them like actual people, not some lifeless toys or puppets or props. If a person can be given a second chance, they deserve it.

Edited June 8, 20178 yr by Master Eraqus

I think one of the reasons why a lot of people don't want these characters to return is because they believe it's the same as reviving them from the dead, when in actuality, they never died.

 

Another reason I think why people don't want them to return would be that it would lessen the impact of their 'deaths'/disappearances. While it mostly depends on one's personal perspective, I think it makes the sad scenes any less sad. The ending of KH1 still saddens me, even when I know that Riku and King Mickey make it out of the Realm of Darkness in the very next game.

 

The fact that these characters don't die is a good thing because instead of having them gone just like that, they sleep in hurt, suffering, pain and sadness that pushes these characters forward. While Axel returns as Lea in DDD, it doesn't lessen the impact of what he was willing to do in KH2; his actions showed that he wasn't just a heartless entity, but rather someone who was willing to give up their own being (or non-being) to help others. And because of these actions, Lea is now pushed with them and can now be a part of the team.

 

These characters have suffered more than long enough, whether it was by choice (such as Xion and Ventus) or by chance (such as Aqua and Roxas) and they deserve something:

 

A second chance.

 

They deserve another opportunity; the chance to be their own person. Sora himself sums this up perfectly in DDD in one sentence when encountering Roxas; "...you deserve as much as I do to be your own person."

 

Some people would say that their job is "done."

 

...What 'job' exactly? Saying that Xion, for example, shouldn't be saved because "her job was done" in Days is like saying that Riku should have stayed in the Realm of Darkness because "his job was done, he closed the door. Let's, y'know, NOT try and help get him out of there."

 

These characters' return is something that has been hinted/foreshadowed all the way back since BBS and has been hinted/foreshadowed again in Coded and DDD. Ansem the Wise, both in BBS and DDD, states how Sora can help return these characters and give them a new beginning, "their birth by sleep." Half of KH3's story (as far as we know) is to help return these characters; it was the main reason why Sora and Riku were tasked to unlock the Sleeping Keyholes, so they could obtain the power of waking.

 

Their return was the whole point of these cutscenes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A person can say all they want about whether or not these characters should return, but I treat them like actual people, not some lifeless toys or puppets or props. If a person can be given a second chance, they deserve it.

For this spoilers you showed, I can understand Re:Coded and DDD, but not so much BBS. Not to debunk the theory from there; I just didn't think that BBS would give that hint. Still, I'm glad that you agree with me.

Until now I haven't made a decision regarding the sea salt trio. On one side, I believe that their roles were fulfilled (Roxas and Xion came back to Sora, making him whole again. And Naminé made her wish to help Roxas and always stay with him like happened in the end of KH2). I truly understand Roxas's suffering as he didn't want to go back to Sora and instead wanted to become someone. As for Xion, in my point of view, she choose to go back to Sora so he could stop the Organization, and when she did, she seemed happy with it. For me Re:Coded and DDD twisted that and made her regret that decision, leaving her with suffering.

But yeah, I believe that when Sora gets the Key to Return Hearts, he will try to release Ventus and both Roxas and Xion will be back. Although I don't actually agree with it in terms of story. Nomura will have to give them a really big reason to come back that makes sense, instead, it will be fan service.

Not really much of a controversy if you ask me, lots of people want them to come back, me included. I just think that some people would prefer them "gone" either because they feel satisfied with their narratives ending in tragedy (I mean, uh, harsh, but I guess it's still a pretty powerful narrative that way), or they are just tired of having so many splintered versions of the same characters to keep track of and worry about. At least, that's what I'm assuming, that may not be it at all.

 

But I will say that wanting to leave their stories in tragedy because it felt "satisfying" is not a legitimate excuse to never have that character come back for a second chance in getting actual closure. I debated with someone a while back about why I felt that it'd be nice to have Riku Replica come back as one of the Seekers (I mean Dream Drop Distance was kind of subtly teasing that depending on how you read the "second Riku" in Monstro situation, but as a defense, the Chain of Memories memento was unlocked during that scene, sooooo....), and his argument against that was that his story was "meant to end in tragedy" and that it was already handled in a "satisfying manner" so there would be "no point" in having him come back. Okay, well by that logic Xion's end was "more impactful" with the idea that she could never come back, but already they are heavily hinting at the idea that she is one of several characters that need to be saved and even deserve to be their own people (that's how Sora felt about Roxas, all he would have to do is learn who Xion is and he'd essentially feel the same way). So how is it that one replica's tragic end is more worth continuing after than the other? I get that Xion had a bit more impact over her game's story than Riku Replica did, but they still didn't deserve being used as tools, and I would argue that Xion found even more closure at the end than Riku Replica did, and HE'S the one who doesn't deserve to come back and get some actual closure? It's a faulty argument because just because something as a story worked well in one way doesn't mean that it should be left alone to be done well in other ways in other stories later. You could argue that the original Star Wars trilogy was left well enough alone to begin with, but we already have some pretty decent and enjoyable stories now with the more recent movies, if we were really supposed to just leave everything alone and be perfect, we would be seriously limited in our options.

 

Sorry if that felt like it was getting off track for a bit, I only bring it up because I wanted to stress that I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea of...well, since "death" is rarely a thing in this series, lets just call them "out of commission". Anyway, I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea of OOC characters coming back to get some proper closure (or retribution/redemption in Riku Replica and even Vanitas' case), especially not when it's something that they've damn well earned and deserved for a good while now. Especially not when it opens up for so many other possibilities. Roxas, Xion, and Namine I feel are the characters who unquestionably deserve this second chance the most. Yeah you could try and make a case for Riku Replica and Vanitas to "stay where they are" and "their stories are over" and all that, but the series has made it expressly clear that they intend to do more with Roxas, Xion, and Namine, at the very least. All these characters have "serviceable" endings, but not truly "satisfying" endings. If Ansem the Wise gets to have not one, but TWO ways of getting a second chance to make things right that makes up for his past mistakes (one in supporting Aqua, the other in providing data to Riku), then surely these 5 offshoots of the core principle cast of the series deserve to get the same chance. There's plenty of opportunity to make interesting stories out of this, I don't see the reason in denying it.

Edited June 7, 20178 yr by Hero of Light XIV

technically Roxas and Namine already got their happy ending in KH2. Xion is the only one who got a tragic ending.

 

the problem here is that the narrative never established that these characters should get a "second chance" and return until just recently, which makes this all seem very forced and pandering. at the end of KH2 we see Roxas and Namine embracing their fate. they willingly return to their Somebodies because they know they can continue to exist within them and be together. originally they believed they would fade into nothingness but were proven wrong. the last we see of them is them both smiling at each other. so KH2 doesn't paint their fate to be tragic in anyway and this is a satisfying conclusion to their story. they're happy with their fate. in KH2 we were told Nobodies weren't meant to exist and Roxas and Namine basically got the best case scenario for their situation. they were able to continue existing within Sora and Kairi. 

 

with Xion her only purpose was to give Days a plot. in-game i guess her purpose was to explain why it took a year to restore Sora's memories (even though we didn't need an explanation) and to give Roxas motivation for leaving the Organization (even though we didn't need an explanation for that either). There's really no need for her to come back as far as the story is concerned. she's served her purpose from a narrative perspective. 

 

the only reason they'll be coming back is to please the fans that can't accept it when a character they like dies/goes away.

technically Roxas and Namine already got their happy ending in KH2. Xion is the only one who got a tragic ending.

 

the problem here is that the narrative never established that these characters should get a "second chance" and return until just recently, which makes this all seem very forced and pandering. at the end of KH2 we see Roxas and Namine embracing their fate. they willingly return to their Somebodies because they know they can continue to exist within them and be together. originally they believed they would fade into nothingness but were proven wrong. the last we see of them is them both smiling at each other. so KH2 doesn't paint their fate to be tragic in anyway and this is a satisfying conclusion to their story. they're happy with their fate. in KH2 we were told Nobodies weren't meant to exist and Roxas and Namine basically got the best case scenario for their situation. they were able to continue existing within Sora and Kairi. 

 

with Xion her only purpose was to give Days a plot. in-game i guess her purpose was to explain why it took a year to restore Sora's memories (even though we didn't need an explanation) and to give Roxas motivation for leaving the Organization (even though we didn't need an explanation for that either). There's really no need for her to come back as far as the story is concerned. she's served her purpose from a narrative perspective. 

 

the only reason they'll be coming back is to please the fans that can't accept it when a character they like dies/goes away.

Let's be real, no one truly dies in Kingdom Hearts. And besides, as Eraqus said, it's been hunted at ever since BBS.

Let's be real, no one truly dies in Kingdom Hearts. And besides, as Eraqus said, it's been hunted at ever since BBS.

i wasn't talking about whether or not characters can die in KH.

 

and what's been hinted(?) at since BBS? characters dying or coming back? if you're talking about the secret ending then maybe you're talking about Ansem the Wise?

Definetly not something I would consider controversial as several other people want to see something happen as well.

 

technically Roxas and Namine already got their happy ending in KH2. Xion is the only one who got a tragic ending.

 

the problem here is that the narrative never established that these characters should get a "second chance" and return until just recently, which makes this all seem very forced and pandering.

 

If by recent, you mean all the way back in the original Coded in '08, only a couple years after the original KHII.

 

And you know, is it really a happy ending when two characters are forced to do the exact opposite of what they've been pining for three whole games (counting COM, Days and KHII in chronological order of course)? I'd say having them do what they did in KHII is what was forced in because that's clearly not what they want. Roxas established relationships with Axel and Xion and his memories of the Twilight Town gang are clearly still intact, meanwhile Namine began growing her own desires to be with people after the fiasco with Castle Oblivion and later with interacting with Riku, Roxas, etc.

 

Now, I'm not trying to completely dress down their actions near the end of II, because for the time it did make sense and they were noble about it and whatever. But all of that felt like a "in the moment" kind of thing, not something that would completely satisfy their personal motivations for anything more than temporary. They are still characters connected to Sora and people he can help.

 

You can see it clearly with Roxas and Sora in their scene with DDD. Roxas is acting all strange and oddly happy while Sora is trying to convince him that he's his own person, which he is. He had experiences outside of being a Nobody, but he's too caught up with his own mortality to see that he can be so much more. I'm sure Namine feels the same and needs the same coaching from Sora to get her out of it, too.

 

As for Xion... well, I'll be honest, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are in regards to her character, so I can't really comment on that.

Edited June 8, 20178 yr by Firaga

I do believe that Roxas, Xion and Namine deserve happy endings, because they've been through particularly scarring events!

 

Roxas is a character who's been through hell and back, given his situation as Sora's Nobody and the friendship he formed with Axel and Xion. The way their friendship was torn apart and the way his life was torn asunder until he returned to Sora was just sad. I loved Days because of just how sad it was, and how it really developed Roxas's character! He deserves to be his own person! He's been through enough to warrant that! 

 

Namine was secluded from the world, and she never really got a chance to truly connect with Sora. The only brief time they communicated was right before she put him to sleep to restore his memories, and she was all alone for the duration of that. The fact that she was alone in Castle Oblivion and then under Diz's care really just tells you just how secluded she was. It's sad that she never got to know anything more than what she was put to do. She deserves happiness!

 

And Xion...God, Xion! Her fate was the worst of anyone's! Being forgotten! For being forgotten is a fate worse than death itself! The fact that she was just a pawn in Xemnas's plans and abused by the Organization made her story a sad one, and when she was finally able to form a connection with Roxas and Axel, her world was shaken by the appearance of Riku and then her finding out of her having to return to Sora to set everything right! Xion did the right thing, but at the cost of her existence, ya know? She deserves to live!!!! 

 

Yeah, these three definitely deserve the happiness they've been deprived of!

i wasn't talking about whether or not characters can die in KH.

 

and what's been hinted(?) at since BBS? characters dying or coming back? if you're talking about the secret ending then maybe you're talking about Ansem the Wise?

Yes, the secret ending. When AtW talks with Aqua. And the Cutscene in DDD titled "Ansem the Wise's Legacy".

I agree. In my opinion, Roxas, and Xion, Namine all deserve a happy ending, including Aqua, Terra, and Ventus. None of the characters deserve the fates that happen to them because the villains were manipulating them to achieve their own goals. None of them deserve that, they all deserve a happy ending so they live their own lives and find their own purpose in life.

what you said

well you make some good points.

 

i'm still of the opinion that they should remain as they are mainly because of the way the series poorly shifts it's stance on what these characters deserve. on paper, Re:Coded's purpose in the story actually has some good weight to it. A journey meant to show that data can grow a heart, implying other things can grow hearts as well (i.e. Nobodies). I actually like that general idea. however i feel like the games handled this new revelation a bit poorly because of how KH2 so definitively sets up Roxas and Namine's ends as the best case scenario. i mean no one even bats an eye or raises an objection to it so we as players are led to believe this is the best they can hope for. it only really starts to become a tragic ending when we start to consider outside factors that weren't even relevant when the scene was written. things from Days and DDD weren't taken into consideration when KH2 was being written and that scene where Roxas and Namine disappear at the end shows it.

 

i was never a fan of having them come back because when we were first introduced to Roxas in KH2 and after the prologue, we're left with the idea that Roxas is a Nobody and it was his fate to disappear and return to Sora. So there's the tragic bit. But that's until we get to the end and we learn he didn't truly disappear, and neither did Namine. we learn they can still exist within Sora and Kairi and this is where their tragic story is meant to turn into a more positive one. that was my main takeaway from their little story in KH2 and it's why i'm still against this idea that they deserve to come back.

 

maybe if the game had implied that this had to be a temporary situation for them in order to retain their sense of self or whatever, and then later Sora would have to find a way to give them their own beings, it'd be easier to swallow.

 

the more i think about it i actually like that. it certainly would have been a good plot thread to leave up to a future sequel, as by KH2 the series has some history with leaving the fates of certain characters up in the air until next time. 

 

so again, i think on paper i like the general idea behind why Roxas and Namine ought to come back, but i guess my problem is the way it's handled in the series. obviously Nomura probably wasn't thinking this far ahead when he wrote KH2 so he didn't think to add in a scene that implied Roxas and Namine would only temporarily be in Sora and Kairi.  it just bugs me from a narrative perspective because we're told one thing definitively by one game and then a few games later we're told something different without any foreshadowing from before.

 

TL;DR i'd be more ok with Roxas and Namine coming back if the series had done a better job setting up the fact that they deserved it, basically.

TL;DR i'd be more ok with Roxas and Namine coming back if the series had done a better job setting up the fact that they deserved it, basically.

 

I understand how you feel. However, I stand by what I said earlier.

 

Plus, now that I think about it, did we really understand that Roxas (and by proxy Namine too, but I'm focusing primarily on Roxas here) really accepted the "two become one" schtick in KHII? Like I mentioned, regardless of how narratively appropriate the ending might have been for them at the time of II, you could still make an argument that it's just as contrived as the stuff that comes after it, and I feel this is especially true for Roxas.

 

Think about what happened after Axel died in II. Before then, we last saw Roxas sadly accepting his fate as a Nobody after the truth about the fake Twilight Town and his origins being revealed to him, as well as a small scene in the real Twilight Town (right before SDG go to the Mysterious Tower) where he clearly still pines for friendship with Hayner, Pence, and Ollette despite the circumstances regarding his knowledge/memories of them.

 

So at this point, we can surmise he's at least somewhat complacent, but again, after Axel dies, we see Roxas trap Sora in his own subconscious in a last ditch attempt to test him. Roxas of course loses and becomes accepting of Sora being his "other"... but even so, what did he accomplish? Did he and Sora have a dialogue about their mortality? Did Sora try to reason with Roxas or apologize to him for Axel? Did Roxas try and explain his own past to Sora (again points to DDD)? No, they just had a fight scene (or if you're playing Final Mix, a ridiculously long mini-boss fight) and then he stays in Sora's head until he and him "merge" together.

 

This is why I say the ending in II feels forced. Whatever lesson or moral that you can easily sympathize with in that instance, it still didn't have any narrative weight established for it other than "oh, might as well because hey, we've had enough angst from in this game from these two and it's not like we can share info from our backgrounds to the main characters or anything because, you know, mystery and junk". Roxas confronted Sora, got his ass kicked, and then just gave up. Heck, Namine didn't even fight anybody, she just pretty much rolled over for Kairi automatically, so she's got it worse.