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Hey everyone.

There's something I've been wondering for ages now and I'm hoping it will finally be explained in KH3, but until then I'm curious to hear your theories. So in Birth by Sleep it was confirmed that Axel/Lea and Saix/Isa were best friends when they were human and we learned that they lived in Radiant Garden. So this begs the question: how/when did they become nobodies? Did they succeed in sneaking into the castle after their first attempt failed and end up getting roped into the apprentices' experiment? Or did they become nobodies when Radiant Garden was overcome by darkness? Or do you have another theory? 

Personally, I think that they managed to sneak in and ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time, being turned into Nobodies by Xehanort. It makes sense since they immediately follow the nobodies of the six apprentices in terms of rank in the Organization. 

I'm not sure if this has already been officially explained, but if it has I can't find anything to confirm it. So what do you guys think?

 

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I think it is the wrong place wromg time theory. Ienzo said in 3Ds that a person reforms into a sombody in the exact place they lost their heart (unless it isnt available then you go to traverse town). And Axel now Lea woke up in the room where Ansems computer was in radient garden. The same place all the other apprentice woke up. And when we see Braig get his heart extracted by Terranort in 3Ds, we see baby Ienzo and Even on the floor. So either they:

1) were lurking nearby when this all went down and Terranort (then calling himself ansem) did the same thing he did to Braig and extracted their hearts.

2) what ever experiment that caused baby Ienzo, Vexen, and Terranort himself to lose his heart did the same to Isa and Lea (though why it had no effect of Braig makes me wonder what in the heck that experiment was)

3) They got caught and were used as experiment subjects 

Or something similar to all of these.

Them losing their hearts in that place when radient garden fell is kindof odd because why would they be in that room when the world fell? Did the world fall after the original 6 were already gone and Isa and Lea just ran into the castle? Were they lurking arround the apprentices when the worlds fell? If thats the case why did the world fall at that exact moment? Was it related to the experiment theh were doing just then? I hope we find out...

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7 minutes ago, Fates Chance XIII said:

I think it is the wrong place wrong time theory. Ienzo said in 3Ds that a person reforms into a somebody in the exact place they lost their heart (unless it isn't available then you go to traverse town). And Axel now Lea woke up in the room where Ansem's computer was in Radiant Garden. The same place all the other apprentice woke up. And when we see Braig get his heart extracted by Terranort in 3Ds, we see baby Ienzo and Even on the floor. So either they:

1) were lurking nearby when this all went down and Terranort (then calling himself Ansem)? Did the same thing he did to Braig and extracted their hearts?

2) what ever experiment that caused baby Ienzo, Vexen, and Terranort himself to lose his heart did the same to Isa and Lea (though why it had no effect of Braig makes me wonder what in the heck that experiment was)

3) They got caught and were used as experiment subjects 

Or something similar to all of these.

Them losing their hearts in that place when Radiant Garden fell is kind of odd because why would they be in that room when the world fell? Did the world fall after the original 6 were already gone and Isa and Lea just ran into the castle? Were they lurking around the apprentices when the worlds fell? If that's the case why did the world fall at that exact moment? Was it related to the experiment then were doing just then? I hope we find out...

We also have to remember the other townsfolk that were used as test subjects.  Why does two random kids get to be in the same room?  Where are the other prisoners?  Didn't we see Hollow Bastion's dungeon in KH1? 

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1 hour ago, ienzo628 said:

We also have to remember the other townsfolk that were used as test subjects.  Why does two random kids get to be in the same room?  Where are the other prisoners?  Didn't we see Hollow Bastion's dungeon in KH1? 

Excellent point. It just adds more to the mystery of WHAT THE HECK was going on in that room???

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51 minutes ago, Fates Chance XIII said:

Excellent point. It just adds more to the mystery of WHAT THE HECK was going on in that room???

Yeah and I hope we get to explore more of the castle.  There is just so much left out.  

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1 hour ago, ienzo628 said:

Yeah and I hope we get to explore more of the castle.  There is just so much left out.  

There are still dome definite mysteries surrounding Radiant Garden. This is just the one that's been bugging me the most.

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17 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

There are still dome definite mysteries surrounding Radiant Garden. This is just the one that's been bugging me the most.

Yeah I wish we could explore more of Radiant Gardens like maybe see the chapel, the dungeon, and so on.  Maybe that would clear up some obscurities. 

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1 hour ago, ienzo628 said:

Yeah I wish we could explore more of Radiant Gardens like maybe see the chapel, the dungeon, and so on.  Maybe that would clear up some obscurities. 

I really want to explore some of the areas from KH1 again to see if anything is different. And yeah, maybe the library would be able to provide some clues as to what happened to Lea and Isa to turn them into Nobodies. It seems like the most logical theory is that they were in the room with the apprentices for some reason, but again the question remains: why?

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9 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

I really want to explore some of the areas from KH1 again to see if anything is different. And yeah, maybe the library would be able to provide some clues as to what happened to Lea and Isa to turn them into Nobodies. It seems like the most logical theory is that they were in the room with the apprentices for some reason, but again the question remains: why?

What makes those two special to being in that lab and not in the dungeon with the other guinea pigs?  It just seems like a lot of the KH1 areas from Hollow Bastion just seem to get ignored.   So maybe Lea and Isa were in that lab because Square wanted to have eight of the Organization members in the lab because it might take a lot of effort to have one customer set in two places on the castle; the lab and the dungeon. 

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2 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

What makes those two special to being in that lab and not in the dungeon with the other guinea pigs?  It just seems like a lot of the KH1 areas from Hollow Bastion just seem to get ignored.   So maybe Lea and Isa were in that lab because Square wanted to have eight of the Organization members in the lab because it might take a lot of effort to have one customer set in two places on the castle; the lab and the dungeon. 

The only real clues we have to the situation that led to them becoming nobodies are the following:

1) Then they were revived as humans, they woke up in the lab with the other apprentices (except for Xehanort and Braig)

2) When Lea wakes up, he states "Only the people who joined the organization are here." Which implies that they joined the organization at the same time as everyone else. Actually, it also implies that there should be other people there too.

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2 hours ago, Allwil13 said:

The only real clues we have to the situation that led to them becoming nobodies are the following:

1) Then they were revived as humans, they woke up in the lab with the other apprentices (except for Xehanort and Braig)

2) When Lea wakes up, he states "Only the people who joined the organization are here." Which implies that they joined the organization at the same time as everyone else. Actually, it also implies that there should be other people there too.

Yeah but as Ienzo said that when a Heartless and Nobody are destroyed, their other comes back to their home world or if the world is not available they wake up in Traverse Town.   Maybe the other four members just came from different worlds.   What those worlds are, their fates, and the remaining possibly waking in Traverse Town I can't say.  

I just wonder what set Lea and Isa apart from the other test subjects.  Them being in the lab and Braig and MX picking Isa out might mean something. 

This could be a hypothesis but perhaps MX, Braig or maybe even Even were snooping on Ventus when he met Lea and Isa and since Lea had a "fight" with Ventus and he and Isa were always sneaking into the castle, that might have separated the two boys as special test subjects. 

Even and Braig could have worked together because they both had a similar interest in Ventus.   Even said he would meet Ventus again or something to that jazz when Ienzo was saved from the Unverse.  

 

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53 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

Yeah but as Ienzo said that when a Heartless and Nobody are destroyed, their other comes back to their home world or if the world is not available they wake up in Traverse Town.   Maybe the other four members just came from different worlds.   What those worlds are, their fates, and the remaining possibly waking in Traverse Town I can't say.  

I just wonder what set Lea and Isa apart from the other test subjects.  Them being in the lab and Braig and MX picking Isa out might mean something. 

This could be a hypothesis but perhaps MX, Braig or maybe even Even were snooping on Ventus when he met Lea and Isa and since Lea had a "fight" with Ventus and he and Isa were always sneaking into the castle, that might have separated the two boys as special test subjects. 

Even and Braig could have worked together because they both had a similar interest in Ventus.   Even said he would meet Ventus again or something to that jazz when Ienzo was saved from the Unverse.  

There must have been something about Lea and Isa that intrigued Xehanort, otherwise why would they have become nobodies? And the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that it must have happened in the lab. I'm going to quote Fates Chance XIII from earlier: What the heck happened in that room???

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15 hours ago, Allwil13 said:

There must have been something about Lea and Isa that intrigued Xehanort, otherwise why would they have become nobodies? And the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that it must have happened in the lab. I'm going to quote Fates Chance XIII from earlier: What the heck happened in that room???

It could have been what we saw in DDD when Braig was being attacked Xehanort.  Lea, Isa, Aeleus, and Dilan could have lost their hearts after being attacked and lay unconscious off screen.

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On 12/30/2018 at 3:41 AM, ienzo628 said:

It could have been what we saw in DDD when Braig was being attacked Xehanort.  Lea, Isa, Aeleus, and Dilan could have lost their hearts after being attacked and lay unconscious off screen.

That's certainly what it looks like. And when they woke up Lea and Isa were still wearing the black coats, while the others were dressed in lab coats and guard uniforms. This implies that everyone woke up in the clothes they were wearing when they lost their hearts. If this is true, then Lea and Isa put the coats on just before they lost their hearts, which means maybe they lost their hearts willingly...? But why would they do that? AGH! I'm just raising more questions and it's irritating me! 

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39 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

That's certainly what it looks like. And when they woke up Lea and Isa were still wearing the black coats, while the others were dressed in lab coats and guard uniforms. This implies that everyone woke up in the clothes they were wearing when they lost their hearts. If this is true, then Lea and Isa put the coats on just before they lost their hearts, which means maybe they lost their hearts willingly...? But why would they do that? AGH! I'm just raising more questions and it's irritating me! 

Well we didn't see Apprentice Xehanort wake up.  So perhaps, he woke up before everyone else and placed the cloaks on them or maybe they couldn't fit Lea and Isa's BBS clothes onto their models.

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2 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

Well we didn't see Apprentice Xehanort wake up.  So perhaps, he woke up before everyone else and placed the cloaks on them or maybe they couldn't fit Lea and Isa's BBS clothes onto their models.

Could be. That would have been hilarious, though, seeing two adult men crammed into teenager-size clothes.

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16 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

Could be. That would have been hilarious, though, seeing two adult men crammed into teenager-size clothes.

Yeah, but they might have had to change the age rating for DDD then.  It's not like the Sora situation at the beginning of KH2 where Sora got too big for his KH1 outfit.

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17 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

Yeah, but they might have had to change the age rating for DDD then.  It's not like the Sora situation at the beginning of KH2 where Sora got too big for his KH1 outfit.

Oh, absolutely. Lea and Isa would have torn the clothes; there's no way they would have fit them even a little bit. Still though, I'm hoping we'll get some answers about how they became Nobodies in KHIII. I just have so many questions about this.

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14 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

Oh, absolutely. Lea and Isa would have torn the clothes; there's no way they would have fit them even a little bit. Still though, I'm hoping we'll get some answers about how they became Nobodies in KHIII. I just have so many questions about this.

Plus Ienzo is no longer wearing the same outfit he wore in BBS.  Why did he get an "upgrade" for a researcher outfit while Lea and Isa got stuck with the black coats?

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6 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

Plus Ienzo is no longer wearing the same outfit he wore in BBS.  Why did he get an "upgrade" for a researcher outfit while Lea and Isa got stuck with the black coats?

Are you sure? He wore the researcher lab coat in BBS too, it was just way bigger on him. 

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11 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

Are you sure? He wore the researcher lab coat in BBS too, it was just way bigger on him. 

They are both still wearing lab coats, my bad!  But older Ienzo does have that ascot or whatever it is called attached to lab coat like Even did if I recall.

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Yeah, that's true. But maybe he was wearing that when Xehanort removed his heart. if I remember correctly in the scene where Xehanort extracts Braig's heart Ienzo was lying on his stomach so we couldn't see his front.  Or maybe I'm just grasping at straws. Either way, that is a good point.

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28 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

Yeah, that's true. But maybe he was wearing that when Xehanort removed his heart. if I remember correctly in the scene where Xehanort extracts Braig's heart Ienzo was lying on his stomach so we couldn't see his front.  Or maybe I'm just grasping at straws. Either way, that is a good point.

Probably but the ascot is very minor and likely isn't that big of deal.  I still have to wonder why Lea and Isa are still in their Organization cloaks and not the others, not even Braig.  Lea upon waking up no longer has his signature tattoos.

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