Remember at the end of 3D? When Master Xehanort said that all of the Twelve Vessels needed to return from whence they came? Did anyone notice that both Braig and Isa faded along with everyone else? Well, they did. Which means that they returned to the past with every other Vessel, and like every other Vessel, they are not currently active in the present time. This means that neither of them have reformed yet as complete beings, and they appeared in 3D as their past selves, Saix and Xigbar.

 

Either that, or the real Braig and Isa have already reformed and just hid in a cave for the entirety of 3D. But if its the latter, then Radiant Garden Might have a problem on its hands, since both Isa and Braig originally lost their hearts in Ansem's castle. Which, as of now, contains a lot of important data as well as the heartless factory, not to mention the other apprentices. This could also be an explanation as to why Lea returned to Radiant Garden at the end of 3D instead of staying to train with the Keyblade, in an attempt to protect/warn Radiant Garden. Oh well, just a thought.

in my pants...

Or maybe it was the real Braig and Isa and they just left to prepare for the coming battle.

Edited January 1, 201312 yr by Sora_Kuno

It's actually not confirmed whether or not the Isa/Saix and Braig/Xigbar we see in DDD are from the past or present .It's left a deliberate mystery but Nomura himself said it could be either way and that maybe they did revive in RG but were picked up before the others awoke .Their names don't give away much due to the fact that as Norted vessels they would still use their nobody names bc of being recusant .

Edited January 1, 201312 yr by Flaming Lea

Or maybe it was the real Braig and Isa and they just left to prepare for the coming battle.

Then why did they disappear like everyone else? And why did Xehanort say that they were returning "From Whence They Came"?

It's actually not confirmed whether or not the Isa/Saix and Braig/Xigbar we see in DDD are from the past or present .It's left a deliberate mystery but Nomura himself said it could be either way and that maybe they did revive in RG but were picked up before the others awoke .Their names don't give away much due to the fact that as Norted vessels they would still use their nobody names bc of being recusant .

If they were revived in Radiant Garden, then bringing them back from the past wouldn't make any sense. But I still don't understand why they faded away with everyone else; unless they just did that to look cool. I mean, can you imagine how awkward it would be if after Xehanort's long and winding speech, Braig and Isa were just left there scuffling their feet?

Then why did they disappear like everyone else? And why did Xehanort say that they were returning "From Whence They Came"?

If they were revived in Radiant Garden, then bringing them back from the past wouldn't make any sense. But I still don't understand why they faded away with everyone else; unless they just did that to look cool. I mean, can you imagine how awkward it would be if after Xehanort's long and winding speech, Braig and Isa were just left there scuffling their feet?

 

I kinda believe they were from the present bc Nomura made the point of saying they could've been picked up before everyone awoke ..Maybe they faded out to the realm of light in the present .

Then why did they disappear like everyone else? And why did Xehanort say that they were returning "From Whence They Came"?

"From whence they came" can also mean the world they're originally from, not just the time, the word "whence" means both "when" and "where". Besides MX disappeared the same way and it's pretty much been stated that it was present-day MX reformed after his Heartless and Nobody rejoined, not the BbS MX "both halves will now return to the whole". And the person above me has a good point, they could have gathered at TWTNW of the past. Remember how surprised Sora and Riku were to be there? It's possible that that world no longer exists. I mean TWTNW wasn't even a real world, it was an artificial one created to serve as a headquarters for the Organization. It could have vanished when Xemnas was defeated.

It's actually not confirmed whether or not the Isa/Saix and Braig/Xigbar we see in DDD are from the past or present .It's left a deliberate mystery but Nomura himself said it could be either way and that maybe they did revive in RG but were picked up before the others awoke .Their names don't give away much due to the fact that as Norted vessels they would still use their nobody names bc of being recusant .

-_-.....................senpai know everthing,but hey maybe both isa and saix are there as well as the other vessels cuz i have no clue if they named each one.

I agree with Flaming Lea here.  Just because they faded away doesn't mean they were from the past - they most likely went to a different place.  It's possible that MX said the word "Whence" to trick everyone, or that Xigbar and Saix were taken from RG, and then went straight to the time of that meeting.  Also I think Lea went back to RG to tell the others about the real goal of the Org.

"From whence they came" can also mean the world they're originally from, not just the time, the word "whence" means both "when" and "where". Besides MX disappeared the same way and it's pretty much been stated that it was present-day MX reformed after his Heartless and Nobody rejoined, not the BbS MX "both halves will now return to the whole". And the person above me has a good point, they could have gathered at TWTNW of the past. Remember how surprised Sora and Riku were to be there? It's possible that that world no longer exists. I mean TWTNW wasn't even a real world, it was an artificial one created to serve as a headquarters for the Organization. It could have vanished when Xemnas was defeated.

You have a good point, but that still begs the question, why? Why did Xehanort and friends abandon the operation? They clearly had the heroes surrounded and outnumbered, if they wanted, they probably could have taken back Sora. And where were they going anyway? If TWTNW really was the version from the past, why did they go there to begin with? To keep their true headquarters a mystery or something?

You have a good point, but that still begs the question, why? Why did Xehanort and friends abandon the operation? They clearly had the heroes surrounded and outnumbered, if they wanted, they probably could have taken back Sora. And where were they going anyway? If TWTNW really was the version from the past, why did they go there to begin with? To keep their true headquarters a mystery or something?

They ran outta time as they outright stated in game .They were forced back from whence they came .( whether that was the past or present location) .Secondly TWTNW is an inbetween world and can exist in many realms at a time just like in DDD when it existed both in sleep and while everyone was awake .

They ran outta time as they outright stated in game .They were forced back from whence they came .( whether that was the past or present location).

Then that just brings up even more questions. Like everything in this series usually does.

Then that just brings up even more questions. Like everything in this series usually does.

 

 

Thats what KH3 is suppose to answer - all the loose ends that were deliberately left a mystery.

Thats what KH3 is suppose to answer - all the loose ends that were deliberately left a mystery.

Lets hope so. Because right now, I'm still curious.

You have a good point, but that still begs the question, why? Why did Xehanort and friends abandon the operation? They clearly had the heroes surrounded and outnumbered, if they wanted, they probably could have taken back Sora. And where were they going anyway? If TWTNW really was the version from the past, why did they go there to begin with? To keep their true headquarters a mystery or something?

Because it's proximity to Kingdom Hearts would allow for an easier transfer. Remember what Xigbar said? "Xemnas and Xehanort formed the Organization for a specific reason, round up a bunch of empty husks, hook them up to Kingdom Hearts, then fill them all with the exact same heart and mind." And don't forget that MX only possessed Terra after Kingdom Hearts appeared in the sky at the Keyblade Graveyard. And did you see that the Org.'s Kingdom Hearts was in the sky when Riku defeated the Anti Black Cloak? It was whole. If I had to guess I'd say they were at the point in time when the Organization was on vacation to that they wouldn't be interrupted by the members who weren't in on the real plan. As for why the left, whatever power summoned them probably couldn't keep them there for long. Or it could be because the other members were due back from vacation soon. If it was the former then when the time comes they'll probably have to travel to the Keyblade Graveyard on their own.

Xehanort could be lying. Just look at Xemnas.

 

Xehanort's a liar.

Because it's proximity to Kingdom Hearts would allow for an easier transfer. Remember what Xigbar said? "Xemnas and Xehanort formed the Organization for a specific reason, round up a bunch of empty husks, hook them up to Kingdom Hearts, then fill them all with the exact same heart and mind." And don't forget that MX only possessed Terra after Kingdom Hearts appeared in the sky at the Keyblade Graveyard. And did you see that the Org.'s Kingdom Hearts was in the sky when Riku defeated the Anti Black Cloak? It was whole. If I had to guess I'd say they were at the point in time when the Organization was on vacation to that they wouldn't be interrupted by the members who weren't in on the real plan. As for why the left, whatever power summoned them probably couldn't keep them there for long. Or it could be because the other members were due back from vacation soon. If it was the former then when the time comes they'll probably have to travel to the Keyblade Graveyard on their own.

I never actually thought of that, good point. I'm still not sure how they sent everyone back in time without any of them knowing though, or how Lea, Donald, and Goofy got there. I guess Yen Sid can control time too.

Xehanort could be lying. Just look at Xemnas.Xehanort's a liar.

It's sort of a tradition in the Xehanort family.

I never actually thought of that, good point. I'm still not sure how they sent everyone back in time without any of them knowing though, or how Lea, Donald, and Goofy got there. I guess Yen Sid can control time too.

 

 

They aren't sent back in time when this occurred there .This happened in the present time but in an inbetween world .We also don't even know who the other hooded members are yet either...Just bc some members might or might not have been picked up from the past does NOT mean this event itself happened in the past .. 

Edited January 2, 201312 yr by Flaming Lea

They aren't sent back in time when this occurred there .This happened in the present time but in an inbetween world .We also don't even know who the other hooded members are yet either...Just bc some members might or might not have been picked up from the past does NOT mean this event itself happened in the past .. 

I'm just saying that the fact the Kingdom Hearts was in the sky without a huge hole in it when Riku defeated Anti Black Cloak suggests that this event took place before DiZ blew it up with the Kingdom Hearts Encoder. I just think that Xigbar and Saix awoke in the Radiant Garden of the present and were then transported to TWTNW of the past.

Edited January 2, 201312 yr by Sora_Kuno

They aren't sent back in time when this occurred there .This happened in the present time but in an inbetween world .We also don't even know who the other hooded members are yet either...Just bc some members might or might not have been picked up from the past does NOT mean this event itself happened in the past .. 

What does TWTNW being an in-between world have to do with anything? Is there something about in-between that I've forgotten...?

I'm just saying that the fact the Kingdom Hearts was in the sky without a huge hole in it when Riku defeated Anti Black Cloak suggests that this event took place before DiZ blew it up with the Kingdom Hearts Encoder. I'm think that Xigbar and Saix awoke in the present and were then transported to the past.

 

There is no indication nor was this event ever represented to take place during the past .It's in the present .When Riku comes across the anti-blackcoat he's still Sora's DE bc Sora is asleep and dreaming and thats what Sora remembers from the past ..However in the Place Where Nothing Gathers Riku is now awake and in the present time and that event is in the present time.MX even states that it's the present time .

 

 

 

 

What does TWTNW being an in-between world have to do with anything? Is there something about in-between that I've forgotten...?

 

 

 

Because it can exist in the current time and in the realm of sleep at the same time .It also has special properties and conditions that allowed all 13 norts to appear at the same time and the same place.

Edited January 2, 201312 yr by Flaming Lea

Because it can exist in the current time and in the realm of sleep at the same time .It also has special properties and conditions that allowed all 13 norts to appear at the same time and the same place.

Sorry, but are you saying that the Xehanort's couldn't have met together at any other place but a world that was similar to TWTNW? I would have thought that something like that would have been addressed in-game.

Sorry, but are you saying that the Xehanort's couldn't have met together at any other place but a world that was similar to TWTNW? I would have thought that something like that would have been addressed in-game.

 

 

 

The in between worlds provided the opportunity to be used in sleep or the current present time at the same time in order to trick Sora into falling asleep and then falling into a deeper sleep till he couldn't wake up. Which is what the norts gathered there to do . It takes an in between world to be able to pull this plan off (in which the norts gathered to do and carry out Soras implantation)....That's what i'm trying to say .

The in between worlds provided the opportunity to be used in sleep or the current present time at the same time in order to trick Sora into falling asleep and then falling into a deeper sleep till he couldn't wake up. Which is what the norts gathered there to do . It takes an in between world to be able to pull this plan off (in which the norts gathered to do and carry out Soras implantation)....That's what i'm trying to say .

Okay, that makes sense. But what makes an in-between world so special? And why does it have such a connection to the realm of sleep?

Because it's proximity to Kingdom Hearts would allow for an easier transfer. Remember what Xigbar said? "Xemnas and Xehanort formed the Organization for a specific reason, round up a bunch of empty husks, hook them up to Kingdom Hearts, then fill them all with the exact same heart and mind." And don't forget that MX only possessed Terra after Kingdom Hearts appeared in the sky at the Keyblade Graveyard. And did you see that the Org.'s Kingdom Hearts was in the sky when Riku defeated the Anti Black Cloak? It was whole. If I had to guess I'd say they were at the point in time when the Organization was on vacation to that they wouldn't be interrupted by the members who weren't in on the real plan. As for why the left, whatever power summoned them probably couldn't keep them there for long. Or it could be because the other members were due back from vacation soon. If it was the former then when the time comes they'll probably have to travel to the Keyblade Graveyard on their own.

This doesn't make any sense. They chose TWTNW because it was an in between world that could exist in multiple places at once. They also chose it because it's special properties allowed it to house all 12 of Xehanort's selves to exist in the same palce and time. The presense of Kingdom Hearts has nothing to do with the Norting process especially since every version of Kingdom Hearts that we have seen so far has been fake including the one in BBS.

As Flaming Lea already pointed Kingdom Hearts only appeared in the Anti-Black Coat was because Riku was still inside Sora's dream.

Also we still don't know who the unrevealed members are so how can know when they were pulled back from if they were even pulled from another time.

Okay, that makes sense. But what makes an in-between world so special? And why does it have such a connection to the realm of sleep?

 

What makes it special is it's connection to all the realms .It doesn't exist in just one realm but in all of them in a way bc it sits and is connected to all realms.