Britipinojeff 95 Posted September 23, 2013 When Joshua greets Sora and Riku he implies that the other arrived just before the character you are playing, but Sora and Riku both can't have arrived before the other one did. Even if the worlds run on a different time axis i would think that one definite person would arrive before the other one did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyblader 325 Posted September 23, 2013 That's something I actually wonder about when I play the game, but I always forget about it afterwards. It really makes no sense. Maybe Joshua is just trolling them? x3 I really am not sure honestly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReikuSSR 1,071 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) are you so sure? if someone greets someone at time A and claims to have met someone prior at time B. Say 1pm is time A and 10 am is time B. if upon meeting the person at time B (10 am) and claiming they met time A person (1pm) prior, who is to say he did not meet them at the same "time" due to according to the times of each world would be parallel yet occurring at same time in the grand time. more simply put: World 1 = Sora met Joshua at 1pm and Riku at 10am according to that world's time, yet the grand time/universal time is X say March 28th 2012 13:00 pm World 2 = Riku met Joshua at 1pm and Sora at 10am according to that world's time, yet again the grand time/universal time is still X at March 28th 2012 13:00 pm St - Rt = Gt Rt - St = Gt St - Rt = Rt - St 2 hours has pasted on Gt regardless; however according to the time frames they can be altered. Such as the Here Now Factor that is similar to other countries Your 1pm is my 10 am and vice versa. Edited September 23, 2013 by ReikuSSR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xiro 3,468 Posted September 23, 2013 OR.... Let's say Traverse Town S's (Sora) time is ahead of that of Traverse Town R (Riku). (So, if it's 13:00 in S, it could be, say, 7:00 in R). Let's say Joshua meets Sora first, then Riku. According to Joshua's actions, he met Sora and then Riku. But according to the time, he met Riku and then Sora, since the time in TTR is earlier. .......... Okay yeah I have no idea either. Perhaps it's as Keyblader said and Joshua is just trolling them 1 Zola reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awesomeinmyworld 268 Posted September 23, 2013 Well, in the second visit, Joshua said to Sora that Riku wasn't worried about him, but when we see the conversation between Riku and Joshua, Riku didn't say anything of the sort. But when he's talking to Riku, what he says about his talk with Sora was true. I assumed he just said he talked with Riku first to let Sora know he was ok, since neither had seen each other since the first visit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyblader 325 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) are you so sure? if someone greets someone at time A and claims to have met someone prior at time B. Say 1pm is time A and 10 am is time B. if upon meeting the person at time B (10 am) and claiming they met time A person (1pm) prior, who is to say he did not meet them at the same "time" due to according to the times of each world would be parallel yet occurring at same time in the grand time. more simply put: World 1 = Sora met Joshua at 1pm and Riku at 10am according to that world's time, yet the grand time/universal time is X say March 28th 2012 13:00 pm World 2 = Riku met Joshua at 1pm and Sora at 10am according to that world's time, yet again the grand time/universal time is still X at March 28th 2012 13:00 pm St - Rt = Gt Rt - St = Gt St - Rt = Rt - St 2 hours has pasted on Gt regardless; however according to the time frames they can be altered. Such as the Here Now Factor that is similar to other countries Your 1pm is my 10 am and vice versa. The time difference between the two Traverse Towns has nothing to do with it. Riku couldn't have arrived after Sora, while at the same time Sora arrived after Riku. That pretty much seems like a paradox. The worlds are 'connected', but what happens in one world shouldn't happen in another. They are the same general world, but they are not that closely connected. At least that's what I think. If I'm wrong, please by all means prove it to me. Under the circumstances that the time difference has something to do with it, I understand it I suppose, though it's kinda bending logic. (Minding that I don't remember who's world was ahead of the other's, let me continue) Supposing Sora arrived before Riku in the scheme of the outside world, but Riku's world was an hour ahead of Sora's, and Riku arrived 30 minutes after Sora, it could be said that Sora and Riku both arrived before and after each other. Of course, as I said before, that's pushing the bounds of what really is applicable. The way you set up the times for Sora and Riku's worlds (Assuming that you expect Riku and Sora's worlds to be 'in synch' with each other, as in one is a set time period ahead of the other), doesn't make any sense. Sora can not meet Joshua 3 hours after Riku while at the same time Riku meets Joshua 3 hours after Sora, unless Nomura really felt like trolling us. That's not how it works in the real world either. It's a set time period, one place in the world will always be a set amount of time ahead or behind of another. You can't just throw around numbers and make up equations that 'work'. Edit: In terms of your set up, it is 'logical', but only if you were to either change one of the two sets of numbers around (For example, this would be a proper fix assuming Sora's time was the 'universal time' as you seem to have it: World 2 = Riku met Joshua at 10am and Sora at 1pm according to that world's time, yet again the grand time/universal time is still X at March 28th 2012 1:00pm -or this- World 2 = Riku met Joshua at 1pm and Sora at 4pm according to that world's time, yet again the grand time/universal time is still X at March 28th 2012 4:00pm) The way you have it set up defies all logic in this universe, and I highly doubt that Square would stray so far from what our universe already runs on. In those two scenarios I set up, your explanation 'works', but as I said before, it's pushing the reality of "Who arrives first". There is a definite standing on who arrives first: You must either focus on when they arrive in terms of the outside world, or the inside world (While the outside world is the more optimal choice, as it makes the most sense.). This concept is very similar to terms of relative velocity. If I am standing inside a bus, and it is going 40mph, relative to the bus, I am going 0mph, while relative to the ground, I am going 40mph. If I move to the front of the bus at 1mph, to the bus I am going 1mph, and to the ground I'm going 41mph. If I go to the back at 1mph? -1mph to the bus and 39mph to the ground (If you assume the direction of the bus to be the 'positive direction'). What does velocity have to do with this? My point is that it's all relative, and determining who arrives first based on both inner and outer world time is silly. Edited September 23, 2013 by Keyblader 1 ReikuSSR reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReikuSSR 1,071 Posted September 23, 2013 The time difference between the two Traverse Towns has nothing to do with it. Riku couldn't have arrived after Sora, while at the same time Sora arrived after Riku. That pretty much seems like a paradox. The worlds are 'connected', but what happens in one world shouldn't happen in another. They are the same general world, but they are not that closely connected. At least that's what I think. If I'm wrong, please by all means prove it to me. Under the circumstances that the time difference has something to do with it, I understand it I suppose, though it's kinda bending logic. (Minding that I don't remember who's world was ahead of the other's, let me continue) Supposing Sora arrived before Riku in the scheme of the outside world, but Riku's world was an hour ahead of Sora's, and Riku arrived 30 minutes after Sora, it could be said that Sora and Riku both arrived before and after each other. Of course, as I said before, that's pushing the bounds of what really is applicable. The way you set up the times for Sora and Riku's worlds (Assuming that you expect Riku and Sora's worlds to be 'in synch' with each other, as in one is a set time period ahead of the other), doesn't make any sense. Sora can not meet Joshua 3 hours after Riku while at the same time Riku meets Joshua 3 hours after Sora, unless Nomura really felt like trolling us. That's not how it works in the real world either. It's a set time period, one place in the world will always be a set amount of time ahead or behind of another. You can't just throw around numbers and make up equations that 'work'. I one appreciate the zeal greatly. There is something that connects the two breaking the paradox and that is Joshua himself I will give another example Grand Time/ Universal Time is forever going and it has a start so say this time is time X (if it makes it easier say according to God country it is 1pm) right now it is 11pm at country A and Joshua is talking to Riku and says he met Sora two hours prior to country A this would be 9pm. Still at time X we have country B right now it is 7 am at country B and Joshua is taking to Sora and says he met Riku two hours prior to country B this would be 5 am. Time X has not changed so according to that measurement the time was the same, but according to the countries time there was a different before and after due to their own measurements. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saber Lily 1,543 Posted September 23, 2013 Joshua exists in two places simultaneously when he's just being a calm badass and does the same thing except at the exact same time when he's going all angel mode. /thread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shulk 8,623 Posted September 23, 2013 What everyone else is saying about the times still technically being the same overall. Also, TWEWY spoilers... Joshua's the Composer, doing something like be in two places and times at once really isn't something too unbelievable for him to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyblader 325 Posted September 23, 2013 I one appreciate the zeal greatly. There is something that connects the two breaking the paradox and that is Joshua himself I will give another example Grand Time/ Universal Time is forever going and it has a start so say this time is time X (if it makes it easier say according to God country it is 1pm) right now it is 11pm at country A and Joshua is talking to Riku and says he met Sora two hours prior to country A this would be 9pm. Still at time X we have country B right now it is 7 am at country B and Joshua is taking to Sora and says he met Riku two hours prior to country B this would be 5 am. Time X has not changed so according to that measurement the time was the same, but according to the countries time there was a different before and after due to their own measurements. Well yes, that's true. I believe in your previous post you messed up the times a little (I edited it before I even saw this, which confuses me as it didn't show up while I was editing.), but this does make sense to me, as that's how things actually work. This is exactly the reasoning why I believe that Joshua had to be taking a bit of leeway in terms of what is true or not. He must have know that one came into the world first from the outer world, yet their time was later than when the second arrival came in (Assuming that like in the first visit, you could see what people in the other world are doing, therefore he could somehow see stuff that hadn't actually happened yet? Bleh) Joshua exists in two places simultaneously when he's just being a calm badass and does the same thing except at the exact same time when he's going all angel mode. /thread What everyone else is saying about the times still technically being the same overall. Also, TWEWY spoilers... Joshua's the Composer, doing something like be in two places and times at once really isn't something too unbelievable for him to do. Joshua himself disproves that he can be in two places at once. How? He says to Riku that he needs to find Rhyme who is the key to travelling between both worlds because she has access to the portal. If he could be in both places at once, he wouldn't need Rhyme. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philip Ellwell 5,487 Posted September 23, 2013 That's something I actually wonder about when I play the game, but I always forget about it afterwards. It really makes no sense. Maybe Joshua is just trolling them? x3 I really am not sure honestly. Lolz, just a Joshua mind-messing-with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReikuSSR 1,071 Posted September 23, 2013 Well yes, that's true. I believe in your previous post you messed up the times a little (I edited it before I even saw this, which confuses me as it didn't show up while I was editing.), but this does make sense to me, as that's how things actually work. This is exactly the reasoning why I believe that Joshua had to be taking a bit of leeway in terms of what is true or not. He must have know that one came into the world first from the outer world, yet their time was later than when the second arrival came in (Assuming that like in the first visit, you could see what people in the other world are doing, therefore he could somehow see stuff that hadn't actually happened yet? Bleh) Joshua himself disproves that he can be in two places at once. How? He says to Riku that he needs to find Rhyme who is the key to travelling between both worlds because she has access to the portal. If he could be in both places at once, he wouldn't need Rhyme. yes, and to my knowledge of TWEWY, it is not unlikely for Joshua not to know the Grand time. Again I appreciate the Zeal you had in your response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyblader 325 Posted September 23, 2013 yes, and to my knowledge of TWEWY, it is not unlikely for Joshua not to know the Grand time. Again I appreciate the Zeal you had in your response. Blah, double negative x-x Do you mean something like this? "It is possible for Joshua not to know the Grand Time" Double negatives mess with mah brain I apologize if I'm being a bit strong in my arguments, perhaps I'm getting a bit too into this whole topic as well as over thinking it. I tend to do that a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zola 3,038 Posted September 23, 2013 It's because Nomura can do whatever he wants. Just because. Possibly something along the lines of Inception and crossovers and time and things and stuff. 1 Xiro reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keystrike 145 Posted September 23, 2013 Joshua trolling? lol. but I'm almost certain thats it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReikuSSR 1,071 Posted September 23, 2013 Blah, double negative x-x Do you mean something like this? "It is possible for Joshua not to know the Grand Time" Double negatives mess with mah brain I apologize if I'm being a bit strong in my arguments, perhaps I'm getting a bit too into this whole topic as well as over thinking it. I tend to do that a lot. It is fine, but I am to correct. It is possible for Joshua to know. There is a big concept of Death and universal concepts in TWEWY. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyblader 325 Posted September 24, 2013 It is fine, but I am to correct. It is possible for Joshua to know. There is a big concept of Death and universal concepts in TWEWY. More than likely you're right. I am honestly very low on knowledge in terms of TWEWY, as I got to a point where I couldn't complete the game at my skill level. Chances are anything about TWEWY would transfer (In a way) to Traverse Town. I was just attempting to think of things logically, and even if what I said were to be true in terms of logic, I really couldn't be sure. Bleh, complex plots always have to complicate things Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
