This is basically part one of a two step question

but

would you consider Kingdom Hearts symbolic? Certainly a lot of detractors of KH talk about how KH has lots of symbolism, generally criticizing KH for trying to be deep

but

I never really got he feeling honestly.

Besides 358/2 Days which went crazy with symbolism (Xion turning into ice cream) and obviously the intros are symbolic as butt

but

overall KH seems really literal. losing your heart to darkness isn't so much representing mankind's struggle with sin or something, but actual physical darkness that shanks you in a back alley.

There are things in KH that COULD be taken as symbolic, the raft representing freedom and such, and that might have even held water back in KH1 times, but KH as a whole has become a lot more explanation focused. Things have a reason behind them, an explanation. They aren't abstract representation of the concepts of our world, more the explanation of the laws of physics of this universe, and everything happens to be named after abstract concepts

 

but

 

that's just one opinion

what do you guys think?

 

This is the beauty of any text type, be it a film, novel, short story, poem or even a video game such as Kingdom Hearts. They can be analysed by a bunch of different people and you'll get completely different answers! An analysis isn't wrong; it's an opinion. (Even though opinions can be totally wrong sometimes). You can claim anything about a text as long as there's relevant textual evidence to back it up.

 

Take Sea-Salt Ice Cream for example. We know it's shared in times of friends bonding, but why? That's what we must ask ourselves: Why?

 

Personally I think it represents friendship perfectly! The salty-sweet taste of the frozen treat corresponds to the salty-sweet nature of friendship; there's always joyful moments, as well as moments where there's disagreement. This reinforces the friendship of Roxas, Xion and Axel because they enjoy hanging out together, when simultaneously arguing about every problem that arises. Also, the ice cream is salty which represents the tears and sadness of the group (mainly Roxas).

 

That's my view!

 

Peace!

I think that sometimes it tries too hard to be symbolic.

I think that sometimes it tries too hard to be symbolic.

it tries too hard to be plenty of things xDThat's probably KH's biggest flaw, it lacks this balance in it.

I think that sometimes it tries too hard to be symbolic.

care to share some examples

 

overall KH seems really literal. losing your heart to darkness isn't so much representing mankind's struggle with sin or something, but actual physical darkness that shanks you in a back alley.

 

 

I think both aspects of the Darkness are true, as the actual physical danger is represents is an off-shoot of the corrupting force and the giving into more negative desires. The idea of the Heartless as pure Darkness is that any sense of morality they might have possessed in their hearts has corroded into nothingness (hence the name Heartless), and as such, all they can do is attack and consume, becoming a true physical threat. As opposed to one that might settle for more manipulative methods, such as Maleficent, who plays on the greed and temptations of others and leads them to do things they might not have done at first, but through being steeped deeper in gnawing words and the belief that they should give in to their desires, they too grow more Darkness in their hearts.

 

In general, while I've said many times that I view the first Kingdom Hearts as more of a dream, with much more symbolism and art than the average game, since then, the series has become somewhat more linear, and perhaps it needed to do so, if it was going to have these characters actually go on a lasting journey. The first game could afford to be more surreal because it was self contained, but to link stories together into a coherent form, you need more base logic to ground it on, and so a lot of what came after was focused on building that base a little firmer and making it more literal. However, while I do get that this needed to happen, I think the efforts to explain things to the lengths that they have done in BBS and DDD is still not a good thing, as I believe it takes away a lot of the art that was present in the first game. Things like trying to give more backstory to the keyblade, which was originally symbolic of giving the wielder the opportunity to unlock that which hindered and blocked the way of their adventure, kind of takes away a lot of the mystique and majesty of things.

You can point out a lot of symbolism being used in this series, and sometimes the characters and dialogue do it for you, like Kairi's charm being used to point out Sora and Kairi's relationship or Riku's blindfold representing his fear of losing himself to Darkness.

.......I'm sorry, did you say Xion turned into ice cream? 

 

No, Xion DID NOT turn into ice cream. She disappeared into LIGHT. That stuff around her was just crystalline light. Do you realize how ridiculous it would be if Nomura said it was actually ice cream? Well no, he didn't. The official explanation is that she faded into light. 

 

 

And for the record, I do think Kingdom Hearts is symbolic in some respects, but most of the symbolism is unique to the viewer. I get more out of Kingdom Hearts than most people would care to do, because it had a really huge impact on my life.

You can point out a lot of symbolism being used in this series, and sometimes the characters and dialogue do it for you, like Kairi's charm being used to point out Sora and Kairi's relationship or Riku's blindfold representing his fear of losing himself to Darkness.

It represents his fear of darkness by shrouding himself in darkness? I'm not sure I follow.

On the Kairi thing, it might have USED to represent that, but now we know Wayfinders have actual magic properties in some form. Wouldn't be surprised if the Paopu Fruit has literal magic too, now that I think of it

.......I'm sorry, did you say Xion turned into ice cream? 

 

No, Xion DID NOT turn into ice cream. She disappeared into LIGHT. That stuff around her was just crystalline light. Do you realize how ridiculous it would be if Nomura said it was actually ice cream? Well no, he didn't. The official explanation is that she faded into light. 

 

 

And for the record, I do think Kingdom Hearts is symbolic in some respects, but most of the symbolism is unique to the viewer. I get more out of Kingdom Hearts than most people would care to do, because it had a really huge impact on my life.

She turns into ice cream. It's a botched attempt at symbolism that sounds poetic in theory, but is ruined by the ridiculouesness of reality. I'm sure you've heard this, but if not, a common defense for the "Who will I eat ice cream with?" line that the ice cream represents friendship and ultimately is all Roxas and Xion knew, sea salt ice cream represented everything good they knew about their lives. So you can see where the good intentions for this symbolism come from

but she's still turning into ice cream

so it's dumb

It represents his fear of darkness by shrouding himself in darkness? I'm not sure I follow.

On the Kairi thing, it might have USED to represent that, but now we know Wayfinders have actual magic properties in some form. Wouldn't be surprised if the Paopu Fruit has literal magic.

 

Okay, not fear of darkness, just... uh... you know what I mean, he was ashamed of himself and he wanted to keep his darkness contained so he put on the blindfold to retain his true form because without it, he turns into Ansem SOD and yadda yadda yadda. 

 

Also, I didn't say that the Wayfinders weren't magic or anything, I just pointed out that the charm was a symbol, sort of.

Okay, not fear of darkness, just... uh... you know what I mean, he was ashamed of himself and he wanted to keep his darkness contained so he put on the blindfold to retain his true form because without it, he turns into Ansem SOD and yadda yadda yadda. 

 

Also, I didn't say that the Wayfinders weren't magic or anything, I just pointed out that the charm was a symbol, sort of.

but that's the thing, you just pointed out the practical elements to this. Riku doesn't wear the blindfold as a SYMBOL, he LITERALLY turns into Ansem without it

to me, in order to be symbolic, it has to go unsaid. you can't say something is symbolic of friendship and ten also say that it forges magic connections. It stops being symbolic at that point, it's very literal.

It's like how even if the blindfold didn't actually serve a purpose, Riku explicitly states in KH2 that he was ashamed of showing himself because of the darkness. That's not subtext, that's text

but that's the thing, you just pointed out the practical elements to this. Riku doesn't wear the blindfold as a SYMBOL, he LITERALLY turns into Ansem without it

to me, in order to be symbolic, it has to go unsaid. you can't say something is symbolic of friendship and ten also say that it forges magic connections. It stops being symbolic at that point, it's very literal.

It's like how even if the blindfold didn't actually serve a purpose, Riku explicitly states in KH2 that he was ashamed of showing himself because of the darkness. That's not subtext, that's text

 

You can have literal objects in the universe be symbols too. It's not just about subtext or any of that shit.

You can have literal objects in the universe be symbols too. It's not just about subtext or any of that shit.

how can it be symbolic if the meaning is explicitly stated?

how can it be symbolic if the meaning is explicitly stated?

 

Because reasons.

Edited November 2, 201411 yr by Firaga Sensei

It represents his fear of darkness by shrouding himself in darkness? I'm not sure I follow.

On the Kairi thing, it might have USED to represent that, but now we know Wayfinders have actual magic properties in some form. Wouldn't be surprised if the Paopu Fruit has literal magic too, now that I think of it

She turns into ice cream. It's a botched attempt at symbolism that sounds poetic in theory, but is ruined by the ridiculouesness of reality. I'm sure you've heard this, but if not, a common defense for the "Who will I eat ice cream with?" line that the ice cream represents friendship and ultimately is all Roxas and Xion knew, sea salt ice cream represented everything good they knew about their lives. So you can see where the good intentions for this symbolism come from

but she's still turning into ice cream

so it's dumb

...you must be joking. You can't SERIOUSLY believe that that was what they were trying to get across to you, can you!? I'm sorry, I don't usually say this to anyone because most of the stuff I hear from other people on other things is subjective, but you are wrong in your interpretation of the scene. XION DID NOT TURN INTO ICE CREAM. SHE TURNED INTO CRYSTALLINE LIGHT. THAT LINE ABOUT ROXAS STILL WANTING TO HAVE ICE CREAM WITH XION HAD LITERALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY SYMBOLISM IN HOW SHE DISAPPEARED. ALL IT MEANT WAS THAT HE DIDN'T WANT TO LOOSE HIS TIME WITH XION. NOMURA NEVER SAID IT WAS ICE CREAM, IT WAS NEVER MADE TO LOOK LIKE ICE CREAM, IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE INTERPRETED AS ICE CREAM. LONG STORY SHORT: IT WASN'T ICE CREAM!!

 

I'm sorry, rant mode over.

...you must be joking. You can't SERIOUSLY believe that that was what they were trying to get across to you, can you!? I'm sorry, I don't usually say this to anyone because most of the stuff I hear from other people on other things is subjective, but you are wrong in your interpretation of the scene. XION DID NOT TURN INTO ICE CREAM. SHE TURNED INTO CRYSTALLINE LIGHT. THAT LINE ABOUT ROXAS STILL WANTING TO HAVE ICE CREAM WITH XION HAD LITERALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY SYMBOLISM IN HOW SHE DISAPPEARED. ALL IT MEANT WAS THAT HE DIDN'T WANT TO LOOSE HIS TIME WITH XION. NOMURA NEVER SAID IT WAS ICE CREAM, IT WAS NEVER MADE TO LOOK LIKE ICE CREAM, IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE INTERPRETED AS ICE CREAM. LONG STORY SHORT: IT WASN'T ICE CREAM!!

 

I'm sorry, rant mode over.

Yeah I have to agree Hero of Light here.  Xion returned to Sora.  I think the whole ice cream thing was made up by fans who think Xion is pointless and will do whatever they can to get to that point across.