Recent posts got me thinking

Kairi is a Princess of Heart, yeah? No darkness in their heart

But is that still the case?

Of all the Nobodies, really it was only Namine who truly wasn't meant to exist. Kairi, like the other princesses, has no darkness to succumb to. Losing her heart doesn't cause her body to disappear and she can't form a Nobody.

But Sora can, and did, and the result was a mish mash of three people split across two. Obviously Namine isn't a "proper" Nobody, she doesn't physically mirror Kairi, but in the end she fused back with Kairi. Doesn't that mean, assuming a part of Sora went to Kairi, or even that Ventus' healing heart gained darkness of its own, and a bit of that went into Kairi?

by extension, if that DID happen, is Kairi a Princess of Heart anymore?

I could see this becoming a plot point that ultimately steals victory from Xehanort at the very end, when it turns out he only has 6 princesses of heart

but who knows

not me

 

Recent posts got me thinking

Kairi is a Princess of Heart, yeah? No darkness in their heart

But is that still the case?

Of all the Nobodies, really it was only Namine who truly wasn't meant to exist. Kairi, like the other princesses, has no darkness to succumb to. Losing her heart doesn't cause her body to disappear and she can't form a Nobody.

But Sora can, and did, and the result was a mish mash of three people split across two. Obviously Namine isn't a "proper" Nobody, she doesn't physically mirror Kairi, but in the end she fused back with Kairi. Doesn't that mean, assuming a part of Sora went to Kairi, or even that Ventus' healing heart gained darkness of its own, and a bit of that went into Kairi?

by extension, if that DID happen, is Kairi a Princess of Heart anymore?

I could see this becoming a plot point that ultimately steals victory from Xehanort at the very end, when it turns out he only has 6 princesses of heart

but who knows

not me

 

For starters, Xehanort can just clash with the 7 guardians of light anyway. The princesses of heart are just a failsafe for him. 

 

And as far as Namine goes, she's technically a combination of Ventus (her hair colour) and Kairi who was harboured within Sora. Nobodies are formed if an individual's heart is strong enough to continue on without the host of the individuals original body. Namine was nothing to do with Darkness.

I'm not really seeing the connection between Sora or Ventus having darkness in their hearts and somehow that transfers to Kairi having darkness in hers. Her heart was fully intact inside Sora for all of KH1, right? And then it went back into her body once Sora released both of theirs (and somehow that made Namine) still fully intact. There's no instance I can think of where any sort of darkness could have seeped in or whatever.

 

Then again, this is KH, and yeah, who knows? I doubt it, but I also doubted that we'd get a completely superflous 14th Org member or that every main villain in the series would spontaneously come back to life for bullshit reasons.

For starters, Xehanort can just clash with the 7 guardians of light anyway. The princesses of heart are just a failsafe for him. 

 

And as far as Namine goes, she's technically a combination of Ventus (her hair colour) and Kairi who was harboured within Sora. Nobodies are formed if an individual's heart is strong enough to continue on without the host of the individuals original body. Namine was nothing to do with Darkness.

the hair shows an element of Ventus, but the ratio of Sora is unknown. The darkness needed to cause a Nobody to be possible has to come from somewhere

 

Nobodies are formed if an individual's heart is strong enough to continue on without the host of the individuals original body.

That's a heartless

I'm not really seeing the connection between Sora or Ventus having darkness in their hearts and somehow that transfers to Kairi having darkness in hers. Her heart was fully intact inside Sora for all of KH1, right? And then it went back into her body once Sora released both of theirs (and somehow that made Namine) still fully intact. There's no instance I can think of where any sort of darkness could have seeped in or whatever.

 

Then again, this is KH, and yeah, who knows? I doubt it, but I also doubted that we'd get a completely superflous 14th Org member or that every main villain in the series would spontaneously come back to life for bullshit reasons.

it's because of Namine, she and Roxas were both created from some weird combo of Sora Ventus and Kairi. Then Kairi fused with Namine at the end of KH2, and Namine definitely wasn't a pure Nobody, so elements of at least Ventus are part of Kairi now, but I don't see why a part of Sora wouldn't be in as well

the hair shows an element of Ventus, but the ratio of Sora is unknown. The darkness needed to cause a Nobody to be possible has to come from somewhere

 

That's a heartless

 

The darkness is presumably from Sora as Ventus and Kairi are void of darkness. Heartless is a Heart consumed by Darkness (which cannot be possible with Kairi) whilst a nobody is essentially a ghost body for a strong heart (without the original heart). 

Edited July 27, 201510 yr by Guest

it's because of Namine, she and Roxas were both created from some weird combo of Sora Ventus and Kairi. Then Kairi fused with Namine at the end of KH2, and Namine definitely wasn't a pure Nobody, so elements of at least Ventus are part of Kairi now, but I don't see why a part of Sora wouldn't be in as well

 

Was it canonically established that Namine is part Ventus? I don't remember hearing that anywhere, but there might have been some journal entry from BBS or obscure interview with Nomura that explained it and I just missed it. Roxas is obviously more or less a clone, but other than her hair color being a completely different shade of blonde than his, I don't see any connection between Namine and Ven.

 

Even assuming that Ven's heart somehow did get mixed in with Namine and that somehow transferred darkness into Kairi, it could be argued that it wouldn't matter; since Kairi's heart is pure light, they could easily say that it just can't be corrupted. It's not even a stretch to say that Kairi's heart can have a kind of cleansing effect- she brought Sora back from being a Heartless when was consumed by darkness, why can't she scrub any darkness that tries to get into her own heart?

 

I mean, it's totally possible they might go that route and basically retcon Kairi into no longer being a PoH, but they could just as easily not do it that way and maybe not remove one of the things that actually makes Kairi special. I personally would certainly prefer if they didn't demote her from Princess status based on a technicality.

Was it canonically established that Namine is part Ventus? I don't remember hearing that anywhere, but there might have been some journal entry from BBS or obscure interview with Nomura that explained it and I just missed it. Roxas is obviously more or less a clone, but other than her hair color being a completely different shade of blonde than his, I don't see any connection between Namine and Ven.

 

Even assuming that Ven's heart somehow did get mixed in with Namine and that somehow transferred darkness into Kairi, it could be argued that it wouldn't matter; since Kairi's heart is pure light, they could easily say that it just can't be corrupted. It's not even a stretch to say that Kairi's heart can have a kind of cleansing effect- she brought Sora back from being a Heartless when was consumed by darkness, why can't she scrub any darkness that tries to get into her own heart?

 

I mean, it's totally possible they might go that route and basically retcon Kairi into no longer being a PoH, but they could just as easily not do it that way and maybe not remove one of the things that actually makes Kairi special. I personally would certainly prefer if they didn't demote her from Princess status based on a technicality.

Nothing is explicitly stated about Namine

it's kinda mind boggling that she was introduced in the second KH game, yet despite all the spin offs explaining all the particulars of things we never asked to know, a lot of basic questions have never been answered about Namine

Namine's hair is most popularly theorized to be the result of Ven, but I don't think it;s stated, if it was it's in an interview.

But the fact that we're missing details on Namine tells me it's building to something in KH3. It's not like Nomura to not explain something down to the most unnecessarily minute detail

 

in terms of story... I personally never felt that Kairi being a PoH added much of anything to her, but I guess I also kinda assumed that if the plot went this direction it'd end with everybody getting all their bits and pieces put back where they belong, including whatever cocktail of Ventus Sora and Kairi are hanging onto, as well as any remaining bits of Sora or Kairi the other had left over

It was explained in Kingdom Hearts II that Namine was able to be born when Sora became a heartless and it was his darkness that caused her to become. 

 

Originally, when Nobodies were introduced, it wasn't explicitly said that they had to look "exactly" like their counterpart. Which made it acceptable in Kingdom Hearts II that Roxas and Namine only somewhat resembled Sora. This was expanded in Days when although some characters were able to distinguish Roxas as a separate person, some felt he resembled someone they knew (and they were not hinting Ventus).Due to Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep however, Nobodies are meant to look "exactly" like their original counterpart. 

 

Still, Namine is a complicated character. The only way i can understand her is if she is a emulation of Kairi's body and soul (just like how Sora's body, Roxas, was still around even though Sora apparently had a body of his own). The reason why she can control Sora's memories is because the memories are linked between light and darkness. 

Nothing is explicitly stated about Namine

it's kinda mind boggling that she was introduced in the second KH game, yet despite all the spin offs explaining all the particulars of things we never asked to know, a lot of basic questions have never been answered about Namine

Namine's hair is most popularly theorized to be the result of Ven, but I don't think it;s stated, if it was it's in an interview.

But the fact that we're missing details on Namine tells me it's building to something in KH3. It's not like Nomura to not explain something down to the most unnecessarily minute detail

 

in terms of story... I personally never felt that Kairi being a PoH added much of anything to her, but I guess I also kinda assumed that if the plot went this direction it'd end with everybody getting all their bits and pieces put back where they belong, including whatever cocktail of Ventus Sora and Kairi are hanging onto, as well as any remaining bits of Sora or Kairi the other had left over

 

It might build to something, I guess, but every time Namine is brought up in interviews, Nomura always says what boils down to "she's special, so rules don't apply". It gives me the impression that he just doesn't want to bother with her; he invented a lot of rules for Nobodies and heart transference junk after she was established and it's a lot of work to "fix" a character that doesn't fit those rules. It could be that he's just being coy and not giving away his plans for her so it's actually interesting when KH3 comes out, but I'm not getting that vibe.

 

And Kairi being a PoH is pretty much the only thing she's got going for her anymore. Just having a Keyblade doesn't mean anything anymore- she's one of (at least) eight people to use a Keyblade, and all of them have tons more combat experience than her. If she doesn't have some sort of pure light magic power she can call on, or some kind of ability to drive away darkness, or something unique like that, then she's just another Keyblade user, only without any of the skill or character development the other wielders have. KH3 is liable to change that, but making her no longer be a PoH takes away something special and cool that's just hers- no other PoH can use a Keyblade (presumably) and no other wielder has a pure heart.

 

Plus, the whole concept of Sora and Kairi being a cocktail of each other and another guy that's in a coma in another world and the magic clone versions of themselves confuses the hell out of me. If they're partly other people, does that mean they're not themselves? If Roxas and Namine become their own people, or if even just Ven gets his heart back (and of course he will), do Sora and Kairi lose parts of themselves? And if not, then any portion of Ven's heart inside either of them would have affected them in any meaningful way, right?

I don't think there would be any darkness carry over at at all. Namine literally doesn't exist while it is true Sora's darkness acted as the catalyst to create her his body and soul were merely used as an intermedium to create her existence. For all intents and purposes she had her own form of existence despite having ties to Sora and Kairi. This is probably why Namine was easily able to traverse the Corridors of Darkness without any form of protection. Since she didn't have an actual form for her to have damaged it wouldn't be an issue. Besides that how would Namine rejoining Kairi impact Kairi's heart. It's not like their hearts fused back together. Even if the others did manage to bring darkness into Kairi her heart would naturally dispel it away due to her status as Princess of Heart.

Edited July 27, 201510 yr by RobbyRobRob the Wise

I don't think there would be any darkness carry over at at all. Namine literally doesn't exist while it is true Sora's darkness acted as the catalyst to create her his body and soul were merely used as an intermedium to create her existence. For all intents and purposes she had her own form of existence despite having ties to Sora and Kairi. This is probably why Namine was easily able to traverse the Corridors of Darkness without any form of protection. Since she didn't have an actual form for her to have damaged it wouldn't be an issue. Besides that how would Namine rejoining Kairi impact Kairi's heart. It's not like their hearts fused back together. Even if the others did manage to bring darkness into Kairi her heart would naturally dispel it away due to her status as Princess of Heart.

 

 

This pretty much^^^  Also some points :

 

1. Their hearts weren't fused so they wouldn't be missing pieces afterwards.

 

2. Ven's heart in Sora was the pure light part of his heart since supposedly destroying Vanitas destroyed the darkness of Ven's heart. ( I say supposedly bc this could change for storyline purposes bc Nomura.)

 

3. You don't need a pure heart to be a light so even if Kairi had darkness now ( which i doubt since her status of PoH could've cleansed any invading darkness) it wouldn't hurt Xehanorts cause. This is why he can also use the GoL for the Keyblade War.

 

4. It has never been established Namine was blonde bc of Ven. It could be why..or it couldn't be. After all, she's an anomoly in the first place. People just say that bc it makes sense just like they thought Ven was the only reason why Sora could wield ( which he's not) After BBS they just assumed this. Nomura has stated otherwise though.

 

5. Namine has no physical body bc of her anomaly. This is not the same situation as Roxas and Sora since Roxas was his physical body while Sora was given a psuedo human body after being purified by Kairi.

 

6. It's very possible bc of Kairi being a PoH Namine could also have a pure heart. She is, after all , the exception to the rule. I wouldn't rule this out as a possibility since we know very little of her circumstances

This pretty much^^^  Also some points :

 

1. Their hearts weren't fused so they wouldn't be missing pieces afterwards.

 

2. Ven's heart in Sora was the pure light part of his heart since supposedly destroying Vanitas destroyed the darkness of Ven's heart. ( I say supposedly bc this could change for storyline purposes bc Nomura.)

 

3. You don't need a pure heart to be a light so even if Kairi had darkness now ( which i doubt since her status of PoH could've cleansed any invading darkness) it wouldn't hurt Xehanorts cause. This is why he can also use the GoL for the Keyblade War.

 

4. It has never been established Namine was blonde bc of Ven. It could be why..or it couldn't be. After all, she's an anomoly in the first place. People just say that bc it makes sense just like they thought Ven was the only reason why Sora could wield ( which he's not) After BBS they just assumed this. Nomura has stated otherwise though.

 

5. Namine has no physical body bc of her anomaly. This is not the same situation as Roxas and Sora since Roxas was his physical body while Sora was given a psuedo human body after being purified by Kairi.

 

6. It's very possible bc of Kairi being a PoH Namine could also have a pure heart. She is, after all , the exception to the rule. I wouldn't rule this out as a possibility since we know very little of her circumstances

basically, we really

really

REEEAAALLY don't know

which again, is odd for KH, since by now they've usually said something

(also similar to how we don't know for sure about Ven influencing Namine's hair, we don't know for sure Namine is the same as Sora after losing his body, that's just another safe assumption)

basically, we really

really

REEEAAALLY don't know

which again, is odd for KH, since by now they've usually said something

(also similar to how we don't know for sure about Ven influencing Namine's hair, we don't know for sure Namine is the same as Sora after losing his body, that's just another safe assumption)

Well shes not the same thing as Sora after losing his body. Sora was then a literally cleansed walking heart given human form. Namine isn't Kairi's heart purified into a being. I used the Sora example bc of what Ephemera said above. I was pointing out what they said wrong....This is what the reports say:

 

I should have expected nothing less from a Keyblade-wielding hero.

 

Sora and friends defied the machinations of Organization XIII and rescued Naminé.

 

Naminé was a witch who controlled the memories of others.

 

Most likely these powers were achieved through a special process when she was born.

 

Naminé is a Nobody, created when a young girl's heart left her body.

 

Yet she has no corresponding Heartless.

 

This is because the "young girl" in this case was a princess.

 

Kairi, a resident of Radiant Garden over which I had ruled, was one of the Seven Princesses that uphold the realm of light.

 

With no darkness in her heart, Kairi produced no Heartless, and instead of vanishing, her body remained in the realm of light.

 

In other words, both the Nobody called Naminé and the Heartless—proof of a lost heart—are extremely unstable beings who lack the bodies needed to produce a Nobody. Therefore, they also lack Kairi's memories. One reason for this maybe that Kairi's heart did not return to the darkness when separated from her body, but rather migrated to another vessel...deep within Sora's heart.

That is, Naminé is an alter ego of the Kairi who has directly interfered with Sora's heart. Could this be why Sora and those hearts are connected to him were able to have their memories controlled?

She is a "non-being" in the truest sense of the word; having not even become a Nobody and with nowhere left to go, she is but the most fleeting of shadows.

 

Secret Ansem's Report 10

 

 

Sora went to sleep in order to recover the memories he had lost in Castle Oblivion.

 

It would take quite some time to bring back all the memories he had created in his lifetime.

 

But Organization XIII held sway over Castle Oblivion. Sora would need to be kept someplace more secure.

 

I persuaded Naminé to move the slumbering Sora to Twilight Town for safekeeping.

 

Naminé.

 

As I have written before, she is a most unusual being.

Born of the same process as a Nobody, but lacking virtually all the elements of a Nobody.

 

Perhaps she continues drawing in hopes of capturing that which she lacks: the memories of others, especially Sora.

 

I have arrived at a hypothesis.

 

I believe that Naminé was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously.

 

Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody...but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.

 

When a person's heart is stolen, a Heartless is born with no sense of self, and the body and soul left behind give rise to a Nobody.

 

But what if one willingly releases one's heart from one's body?

 

Sora and Xehanort retained their selfhood even after becoming Heartless.

 

Then there are Kairi and Naminé.

 

Kairi was exceptional for having had no darkness within her heart. Also exceptional was that her heart, once freed, migrated to a new vessel—Sora.

 

The combination of the two theoretically unlikely exceptions may be behind this anomaly.

 

There are matters I must attend to while Sora is sleeping.

 

A new ally has appeared on the scene: Riku.

Maori does not have darkness in her heart. Sora ended up possessing her heart so when he released it, he created here Nobody along with his own since he released his heart and Ventus's.

This is pretty interesting, but well, I don't think Kairi has darkness in her heart.  She's a strong, steadfast girl, and all she's ever wanted to do is to show to everyone that she can stand on her own two feet, ya know?  In terms of how she stands now, that's yet to be seen in Kingdom Hearts III, where I hope she'll get more development! But yeah, Kairi never had a Heartless, so she doesn't have darkness in her heart.

Don't want to really get into this debate, but i'd like to point out something loosely mentioned by others thats kinda getting ignored: Ven is litterally a prince of light. His darkness was bleached off him.

Don't want to really get into this debate, but i'd like to point out something loosely mentioned by others thats kinda getting ignored: Ven is litterally a prince of light. His darkness was bleached off him.

he WAS a prince of heart... kinda

it wasn't the same as Kairi, who has a full heart of light. Ven's heart is SUPPOSED to have darkness, and he would have died if Xehanort hadn't brought him to Destiny Islands at coincidentally the right moment for him to be restored by baby Sora.

Ven's heart is more severely damaged following that, so now he's definitely not a Prince of Heart, since he doesn't have a complete heart

Where it goes from there... nobody knows

I don't consider it likely, but after hearing about how a Nobody attempts to create a new heart to the same specifications of the old one, I have considered the possibility that Ven's heart will heal into its ~original~ form, with darkness, following the Nobody rule and trying to recreate itself as it originally was.

they could even use that as an excuse to bring Vanitas back