since we figure out that nobodys really do have hearts which was said in ddd does that mean roxas have a nobody now since he went back to sora

I'll just leave this to Flaming Lea then. I read the part you put there and what I got from it was just what Nomura literally said, but I'm not seeing the implications you're seeing, so I'll see what she brings to this.

Wow after this I'm probably not coming back to this thread. What's the difference between what she would say then what I'm telling you. I guarantee its probably the same answer. You shouldn't ignore what I'm saying because you think you're going to get a better answer smh. I'm just as well versed in Kingdom Hearts lore as she is. If you can't argue your own point without someones else's help then I'm done with this discussion.

She isn't even close to being Roxas's Nobody.

 

Replicates have been called a type of Nobody. Vexen said it himself, and someone in CoM probably did, too.  

 

"One thing is clear: could these Replicas not be classified as a special sort of Nobody?"

 

She's not his Nobody, but if we're grasping for straws here, it's the closest thing we have. 

Edited February 5, 201411 yr by Kaweebo

 

No it doesn't.

 

Since you're find of asking for source I ask for your source on this statement.

Yes it does. Sora explicitly says they had hearts, and it's in that scene where it's revealed Nobodies can grow hearts.

. The point of this scene is blatantly obvious, and this should be a non-brainer.

 

In case you still didn't understand, Sora said the four of them had hearts, and Xigbar, one of the people hiding the fact Nobodies can grow hearts, says "it's about time you noticed".

 

 

Replicas is in no way shape or form nobodies.

Vexen, the very creator of Replicas, explicitly states they are a special sort of Nobody in one of his secret Reports.

 

"The Program is largely on target. No. i, my finest Replica, has proven an even greater success than anticipated.

I intend to take the other vessel—judged unfit for number status—to Castle Oblivion, where I will subject it to further testing.

One thing is clear: could these Replicas not be classified as a special sort of Nobody?"

 

 

If you're going to correct me with interviews use the full interview not just the context that makes it seem like your point is correct.

The full interview, in this case, makes no difference, as what comes before that paragraph doesn't in any way change its context. The meaning is obvious.

If you want, I can ask the translator to see if there's anything lost in translation.

 

Not entirely. All Organization members grew their own hearts over time (with or without friendship), according to Braig and Xemnas, however, the main goal was to fill them each with a piece Xehanort's heart to be vessels. On the other hand, a majority of them became traitorous and Roxas became too aware of his situation.

We don't know if all of them grew hearts. Saïx, at least, is implied to not have grown a heart. Also, I could be misremembering, but I think it was stated that the conditions for growing a heart are touching the light, getting contact to nature, and bonding with another being.

 

However, given the hard evidence from the games themselves, Xehanort himself could have set the task to Braig and Xemnas of replicating themselves had both, replication of Heartless and Nobody and a Nobody being capable of creating yet another Heartless and a Nobody, been possible. Obviously the story would have been dull if Nobodies could create Nobodies. Taking a look into Ansem the Wise's reports, having a heart or not, Nobodies were simply not meant to exist, however, it was not his right to take the existence that they did have from them, in which he promptly apologized to Roxas for.

That's not the problem here. Anything with a non-pure heart can produce a Heartless (even Scar and the Tung-Shao dragon), and theoretically a Nobody. Therefore a Nobody with a heart can theoretically produce another Heartless and Nobody. However, this would be useless for the Organization unless they could create another Heartless similar to Ansem.

 

Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, is explicitly a logic-defying being, and if Xemnas couldn't create something similar to him, resplitting would be useless. Ansem the Wise believes Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, kept his selfhood because he became a Heartless willingly, but even Sora states he was starting to forget when he was a Heartless, so there may be other yet to be revealed conditions involved, and depending on their complexity, it could have been impractical to perform multiple resplits.

But if something wasn't meant to exist, how could it create yet another nonexistent being?

I don't know how to answer this, but I don't think being meant to exist or not has anything to do with the ability to create Nobodies, which seems to rely solely on having a strong heart.

Wow after this I'm probably not coming back to this thread. What's the difference between what she would say then what I'm telling you. I guarantee its probably the same answer. You shouldn't ignore what I'm saying because you think you're going to get a better answer smh. I'm just as well versed in Kingdom Hearts lore as she is. If you can't argue your own point without someones else's help then I'm done with this discussion.

I think the thing is that Flaming Lea seems to have the best understanding of the interviews out of the most active people, and has corrected many people in the past.

Edited February 5, 201411 yr by G-SANtos

I'll just leave this to Flaming Lea then. I read the part you put there and what I got from it was just what Nomura literally said, but I'm not seeing the implications you're seeing, so I'll see what she brings to this.

Lea will back him up. Because he is right. You guys have to realize that Dev knows what he is talking about as well. 

 

 

 

 

Yes it does. Sora explicitly says they had hearts, and it's in that scene where it's revealed Nobodies can grow hearts.

. The point of this scene is blatantly obvious, and this should be a non-brainer.

 

In case you still didn't understand, Sora said the four of them had hearts, and Xigbar, one of the people hiding the fact Nobodies can grow hearts, says "it's about time you noticed".

 

I don't think you get the point. Nobody is disagreeing that Roxas has a heart. We're just saying it hasn't been confirmed. Everything points to it, yes and more than likely that is the case. But just because it's what Sora said it doesn't mean it's confirmed. There have been many things characters have said that turned out to be false. 

Edited February 5, 201411 yr by Squirting Demyx

Funny how Sora's Evil/Nobody/Whatever side actually has somewhat of a personality unlike Sora

Sora is one of the most dull video game character I've ever seen in my life

Even Mario has more personality and is less duller

I'm glad I play more as him then hear him talk *shrugs*

...What?

I don't think you get the point. Nobody is disagreeing that Roxas has a heart. We're just saying it hasn't been confirmed. Everything points to it, yes and more than likely that is the case. But just because it's what Sora said it doesn't mean it's confirmed. There have been many things characters have said that turned out to be false. 

Though if that was the case, Xemnas and Xigbar would have said otherwise. Xion explicitly said she loves Roxas and Axel in one of her Reports, Axel cried in one scene in KH2FM, something impossible if you don't have a heart, and I don't remember anything about Naminé now.

 

Honestly, I don't remember every single instance where a character said something that later turned out false, but were any of them ever the level of misleading you're suggesting here?

Edited February 5, 201411 yr by G-SANtos

Yes it does. Sora explicitly says they had hearts, and it's in that scene where it's revealed Nobodies can grow hearts.

. The point of this scene is blatantly obvious, and this should be a non-brainer. In case you still didn't understand, Sora said the four of them had hearts, and Xigbar, one of the people hiding the fact Nobodies can grow hearts, says "it's about time you noticed". Vexen, the very creator of Replicas, explicitly states they are a special sort of Nobody in one of his secret Reports. "The Program is largely on target. No. i, my finest Replica, has proven an even greater success than anticipated.I intend to take the other vessel—judged unfit for number status—to Castle Oblivion, where I will subject it to further testing.One thing is clear: could these Replicas not be classified as a special sort of Nobody?" The full interview, in this case, makes no difference, as what comes before that paragraph doesn't in any way change its context. The meaning is obvious.If you want, I can ask the translator to see if there's anything lost in translation. We don't know if all of them grew hearts. Saïx, at least, is implied to not have grown a heart. Also, I could be misremembering, but I think it was stated that the conditions for growing a heart are touching the light, getting contact to nature, and bonding with another being. That's not the problem here. Anything with a non-pure heart can produce a Heartless (even Scar and the Tung-Shao dragon), and theoretically a Nobody. Therefore a Nobody with a heart can theoretically produce another Heartless and Nobody. However, this would be useless for the Organization unless they could create another Heartless similar to Ansem. Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, is explicitly a logic-defying being, and if Xemnas couldn't create something similar to him, resplitting would be useless. Ansem the Wise believes Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, kept his selfhood because he became a Heartless willingly, but even Sora states he was starting to forget when he was a Heartless, so there may be other yet to be revealed conditions involved, and depending on their complexity, it could have been impractical to perform multiple resplits.I don't know how to answer this, but I don't think being meant to exist or not has anything to do with the ability to create Nobodies, which seems to rely solely on having a strong heart.I think the thing is that Flaming Lea seems to have the best understanding of the interviews out of the most active people, and has corrected many people in the past.

Sora: "You know right because you all have hearts. Axel, Roxas, Namine and that other girl. I felt what Roxas felt. They laughed together, got mad and they grieved. You have to have a heart to cry."Sora viewed Roxas's memories and properly recognized that all the those listed Nobodies acted exactly the same way as those who had hearts. Based on those memories he assumes that they had hearts. He probably is right but the only one he can actually confirm is Roxas so on that token you are correct. Coupled with what Xemnas said we can safely assume that Axel, Namine, Xion grew their own hearts. But as Xemnas said despite a number of them growing "A burgeoning replacement" there were still variations amongst them. Again I'm not arguing whether or not they had hearts rather whether all them are truly confirmed or Nomura retcon seedbeds lol.The context is completely different because it shows you what happens when the heart has no container. Your original post contains only a part of the principles involved. Taken alone that one part would allow you to have a valid point as it shows that the heart will return to the body regardless of its state of destruction. However the first part shows us what happens to the heart upon being released by a keyblade wielder as well as how it reacts when it has no container to return to. While the two are seperate scenarios the principles of how the body and heart act in absense of each other are the same and do not change.That's fine I'm not disputing her knowledge, intellect, or her understanding of KH lore. She's probably the few people in this world I truly respect on and off site. However to sit there and say "I'll just wait till Flaming Lea comes" is equivalent to say firetruck what you have to say I'll just wait to get a second opinion . Just because she is the most well known doesn't make what others say any less valid.

Edited February 5, 201411 yr by devereauxr

Though if that was the case, Xemnas and Xigbar would have said otherwise. Xion explicitly said she loves Roxas and Axel in one of her Reports, Axel cried in one scene in KH2FM, something impossible if you don't have a heart, and I don't remember anything about Naminé now.

 

Honestly, I don't remember every single instance where a character said something that later turned out false, but were any of them ever the level of misleading you're suggesting here?

Remember how in KH2 it was said over and over and over and over that Nobodys had no hearts? x'D Shit changes left and right with this series. 

1- Roxas wouldn't have a nobody bc he never lost his heart to darkness so that's irrelevant . As for if a nobody can make a nobody it has never been addressed but it seems redundant .

 

2- It was never said that ALL the org members grew hearts - it was said that they all had the capabilities to do so if given the proper circumstances to do so .

 

3- As for if it was confirmed if they had heart- It was very strongly implied to the point I would consider it true . Everything said in DDD backs it up but some people have to have every little thing spelled out exactly word for word by Nomura before they consider it canon fact and thats what others like Dev and Xaon are basically saying since Nomura has a habit of leaving some things open ended .

 

4- As for that quote - Dev is right . Nomura was asked actually several times about this process and he did say there basically was a small chance the reformation could go wrong if the nobody ended up swallowed by darkness waiting to be reunited with it's heart . It's one of the reasons they wear cloaks btw. Even though they are nobodies repeated exposure to darkness is dangerous . In one sense the order doesn't matter bc that person can still be restored regardless of order.But in another sense, it DOES matter bc of the small chance of it going wrong due to circumstances. Nomura allows the possibility of the reformation going wrong and we all know how Nomura loves to allow open possibilites

Remember how in KH2 it was said over and over and over and over that Nobodys had no hearts? x'D Shit changes left and right with this series. 

Though it was hinted since that game that Axel had a heart. Axel said "he made me feel as I had a heart, and you make me feel the same". Despite KH2 saying a pentakillion times that Nobodies don't have hearts, every game since then, including KH2 itself, had hints of the contrary.

 

This time, however, it's different. The scene states the four of them had hearts, and there has been no hint to the contrary since then.

 

 

The context is completely different because it shows you what happens when the heart has no container. Your original post contains only a part of the principles involved. Taken alone that one part would allow you to have a valid point as it shows that the heart will return to the body regardless of its state of destruction. However the first part shows us what happens to the heart upon being released by a keyblade wielder as well as how it reacts when it has no container to return to. While the two are seperate scenarios the principles of how the body and heart act in absense of each other are the same and do not change.

I still don't see how the context changes, though. It still seems to mean that the order is irrelevant. Maybe I'm forgetting something here?

 

 

As for that quote - Dev is right . Nomura was asked actually several times about this process and he did say there basically was a small chance the reformation could go wrong if the nobody ended up swallowed by darkness waiting to be reunited with it's heart . It's one of the reasons they wear cloaks btw. Even though they are nobodies repeated exposure to darkness is dangerous . In one sense the order doesn't matter bc that person can still be restored regardless of order.But in another sense, it DOES matter bc of the small chance of it going wrong due to circumstances. Nomura allows the possibility of the reformation going wrong and we all know how Nomura loves to allow open possibilites

Ah, so there's info in other interviews about it, then? If that's the case, then I don't understand why everyone in KHInsider was mentioning the question VIII and saying it meant the order doesn't matter and no one brought up the interview that said more clearly that there's a chance something could go wrong.

 

And I thought they wore cloaks to hide from the Heartless when in the Corridors of Darkness. Seems like my memory is fuzzy on this subject.

Edited February 5, 201411 yr by G-SANtos

Though it was hinted since that game that Axel had a heart. Axel said "he made me feel as I had a heart, and you make me feel the same". Despite KH2 saying a pentakillion times that Nobodies don't have hearts, every game since then, including KH2 itself, had hints of the contrary.

 

This time, however, it's different. The scene states the four of them had hearts, and there has been no hint to the contrary since then.

Point is I don't trust anything that is said in Kingdom Hearts. Because it's full of a lot of bull. 

Though it was hinted since that game that Axel had a heart. Axel said "he made me feel as I had a heart, and you make me feel the same". Despite KH2 saying a pentakillion times that Nobodies don't have hearts, every game since then, including KH2 itself, had hints of the contrary.

 

This time, however, it's different. The scene states the four of them had hearts, and there has been no hint to the contrary since then.

 

 

I still don't see how the context changes, though. It still seems to mean that the order is irrelevant. Maybe I'm forgetting something here?

 

 

Ah, so there's info in other interviews about it, then? If that's the case, then I don't understand why everyone in KHInsider was mentioning the question VIII and saying it meant the order doesn't matter and no one brought up the interview that said more clearly that there's a chance something could go wrong.

 

And I thought they wore cloaks to hide from the Heartless when in the Corridors of Darkness. Seems like my memory is fuzzy on this subject.

 

 

Yes it was in the Re:Coded interviews as well when asked about reformation of the org members besides Xehanort.If you think about it even this part of the quote confirms it "In the case of a Nobody being defeated, it's a little more complicated. If the above mentioned hearts are liberated, they return to their original form. However, if the heart is still stolen by the Heartless, the Nobody's body is swallowed by darkness. If somewhere in the world their hearts are taken back, perhaps they might be able to return to their original human form." 

 

There would be no point in adding this part if the order was totally irrelevant .That's why it's 'complicated" and why he even pointed this out to begin with . ( especially the 'might "part.) As for the cloaks there were several reasons but mainly it was to protect them from the repeated exposure to the darkness when they used the corridors.

Edited February 5, 201411 yr by Flaming Lea

Though it was hinted since that game that Axel had a heart. Axel said "he made me feel as I had a heart, and you make me feel the same". Despite KH2 saying a pentakillion times that Nobodies don't have hearts, every game since then, including KH2 itself, had hints of the contrary.This time, however, it's different. The scene states the four of them had hearts, and there has been no hint to the contrary since then.I still don't see how the context changes, though. It still seems to mean that the order is irrelevant. Maybe I'm forgetting something here?Ah, so there's info in other interviews about it, then? If that's the case, then I don't understand why everyone in KHInsider was mentioning the question VIII and saying it meant the order doesn't matter and no one brought up the interview that said more clearly that there's a chance something could go wrong.And I thought they wore cloaks to hide from the Heartless when in the Corridors of Darkness. Seems like my memory is fuzzy on this subject.

Because how the heart reacts is the same in both scenarios. Without a container it cannot initiate the recompletion process. The way the heart reacts upon being released by the wielder is it will seek the vessel it once was parted with. In the absence of the vessel it will stay in a state of suspension. That's why the order matters because principles involving the heart apply to both methods. Also there is a fine difference between implication and confirmation.

Edited February 5, 201411 yr by devereauxr

...What?

He does...I know it's too hard to accept it...but he does

He does...I know it's too hard to accept it...but he does

No.

No.

Yes