Yes, that's exactly what this thread is about because apparently, people read too fast and got confused by the first title.

 

But let's move on from that onto the topic at hand:

 

Let's watch this scene from KH1, specifically, the segment between 2:01 and 2:08.

 

 

Here in this instance, after our protagonist Sora finally finds his friend Riku (who at this point is just sort of ambiguous as to whether he's good or not), part of the very reason he decided to team up with Donald and Goofy in the first place, and when he asks Donald to invite him along, he straight up tells him no and shows no care whatsoever for Sora's wishes.

 

Now yes, Donald did in fact lie when he told Sora that he and Goofy would help look for Riku and Kairi, but up until now, Sora didn't know that and was under the impression that they were "all for one and one for all", but for some idiot reason, Captain Featherbrains over here decides to drop all pretenses and basically tell Sora "I don't care about what you or your friend want, it's what I, Goofy, and my King want that matters. My way or the high way, twerp". Again, "all for one and one for all"? Bull-freaking-shit.

 

And in all seriousness, I would expect Riku to actually be easily influenced by Maleficent to turn on Sora after this because not only does Riku feel jealousy that Sora has found replacements for him and Kairi, but he's got a good reason to think that his replacements also treat Sora and his ambitions like shit only for him to still go along with them for their own personal gain. I mean, Riku was literally in perfect earshot of what Donald said (unless he had already left by that point, but I'd like to imagine he didn't). 

 

Look, I'm not trying to take the piss out of the SDG dynamic, I do believe that they become good friends later on, especially with Donald's and Goofy's segments during the first trip to Hollow Bastion. I just find this scene to be really off-putting towards the whole "SDG are becoming good friends as they travel together" thing considering at this point the game, the player would have sealed Deep Jungle and already had gone through the mini "Sora and Donald can't get along" arc that it contained just to see Donald cross another line and revert back to the same idealogy that started that conflict in the first place, except this time it was never resolved and Donald got away with being a dick to Sora in this instance without being reprimanded. 

 

In fact, It would have made much more sense if Deep Jungle was available after this sequence because then at least there's plausible grounds to address the Sora-Donald conflict with a little more meat layered on top of it. Instead of just arguing about where to land, it could have been Sora getting rightfully pissed at Donald for once again putting his own desires over his own, Donald having to learn that they can all work together to find who they're looking for, and it'd make their entire dynamic even stronger as a result.

 

Again, it's not that big a deal, but it still bugs the shit out of me. I just figured I'd share this to see if I have a point or I'm overthinking this more than I should.

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by Firaga Sensei

I don't try to be condescending, just honest.

Same here....though maybe I accidentally let some attitude slip in here and there.

Donald sure as hell didn't help matters with Riku. Had Donald accepted Riku's help, then he probably wouldn't have joined Maleficent.

Riku was a lost cause from the start of the game. His decision to leave and be a dick isn't triggered by Donald; it happens the moment he sees that Sora has the keyblade. Throughout their time on the island, Riku constantly is asserting his dominance and alpha tendencies, and it becomes more and more clear that he loves being the top dog. Once that becomes threatened, and it's clear that Sora is not only capable of coping without him, but may actually be better than him, Riku's ego takes a beating that it can't come back from. He wants to be the best to fulfill his white knight fantasies, and Sora being better than him basically ruins that possibility. It's why he navigates towards Maleficent and later Ansem: they both promise him things that will make him feel better about himself, and throw fuel onto his jealous fire of Sora. Riku was going to turn on him sooner or later by virtue of Sora being the hero and Riku being a side character.

Riku was a lost cause from the start of the game. His decision to leave and be a dick isn't triggered by Donald; it happens the moment he sees that Sora has the keyblade. Throughout their time on the island, Riku constantly is asserting his dominance and alpha tendencies, and it becomes more and more clear that he loves being the top dog. 

 

Uh no, Sora and him hade a pretty friendly rivalry before that point. You're pigeonholing him too much to be some wannabe jock bro. Which he's not.

 

Once that becomes threatened, and it's clear that Sora is not only capable of coping without him, but may actually be better than him, Riku's ego takes a beating that it can't come back from. He wants to be the best to fulfill his white knight fantasies, and Sora being better than him basically ruins that possibility.

 

I really don't like this description of Riku's motivation. Just... blegh.

 

It's why he navigates towards Maleficent and later Ansem: they both promise him things that will make him feel better about himself, and throw fuel onto his jealous fire of Sora.

 

Or you know, it's because one of his friends is missing their God damn heart and he wants it back and the other friend, at least to him, abandoned him. I'm not saying he wasn't jealous of Sora either, because he clearly was. What I'm saying is that there's more layers to this debacle.

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by Felixx

Uh no, Sora and him hade a pretty friendly rivalry before that point. You're pigeonholing him too much to be some wannabe jock bro. Which he's not.

 

 

It's not him being a jock, it's him being used to being number one and hating when he's not. The scene in Monstro where he mockingly asks Sora if hes "...too cool, now that he has the keyblade," is him trying to stay on his high horse by belittling Sora, because Sora has something he doesn't. Everytime he appears to Sora as the adventure continues, he has to assert that he is better in some way, whether it's because he can summon Heartless, or because he can swipe the keyblade. And each time Sora surpasses him, he gets more and more frustrated and is more willing to give himself into Darkness if it means beating Sora. It becomes less of a rivalry thing and more of an obsession about staying on top.

 

 

 

I really don't like this description of Riku's motivation. Just... blegh.

 

It's certainly how he views himself. He's convinced that he's the only one who is doing the right thing, and he feels like everyone else's personal quests are a side show to what he wants. From Pinocchio to Jasmine to The Beast, there's no point where Riku shows any awareness to the needs and wants of others, so long as he can convince himself that he is helping Kairi (more on that in a bit). He is wholly wrapped up in his own self created sense of virtue, and even though Sora is more or less doing the exact same thing (only better), he would much rather be in the drivers seat than have to collaborate with someone whom he used to lord over. There is no reason for him NOT to work with Sora other than his ego can't handle it.

 

 

 

Or you know, it's because one of his friends is missing their God damn heart and he wants it back and the other friend, at least to him, abandoned him. I'm not saying he wasn't jealous of Sora either, because he clearly was. What I'm saying is that there's more layers to this debacle.

 

And yet, he was far less concerned with Kairi's safety and well being while the island was being consumed by the Abyss, the resulting loss of her heart being his fault almost entirely. He only starts to truly care about her when she becomes a thing to save.

 

 

Okay, now you're just being an asshole.

 

 

Then Riku and I have that in common.

Where did all those spaces in the quotes come from? ._.

 

It's not him being a jock, it's him being used to being number one and hating when he's not. The scene in Monstro where he mockingly asks Sora if hes "...too cool, now that he has the keyblade," is him trying to stay on his high horse by belittling Sora, because Sora has something he doesn't. Everytime he appears to Sora as the adventure continues, he has to assert that he is better in some way, whether it's because he can summon Heartless, or because he can swipe the keyblade. And each time Sora surpasses him, he gets more and more frustrated and is more willing to give himself into Darkness if it means beating Sora. It becomes less of a rivalry thing and more of an obsession about staying on top.

 

Okay, that's a better assessment than the one from before. I still think it's still half-and-half with that aspect and the whole "abandoning him" thing.

 

It's certainly how he views himself. He's convinced that he's the only one who is doing the right thing, and he feels like everyone else's personal quests are a side show to what he wants. From Pinocchio to Jasmine to The Beast, there's no point where Riku shows any awareness to the needs and wants of others, so long as he can convince himself that he is helping Kairi (more on that in a bit). He is wholly wrapped up in his own self created sense of virtue, and even though Sora is more or less doing the exact same thing (only better), he would much rather be in the drivers seat than have to collaborate with someone whom he used to lord over. There is no reason for him NOT to work with Sora other than his ego can't handle it.

 

Or the whole "him leaving him for Donald and Goofy" thing. Again, there can be more layers. Bear in mind my original point of the post where Donald may or may have not showed Riku that his intentions for teaming up with Sora basically amount to a hill of beans. That's a pretty frustrating thing to think about when you're actually trying to make a difference in helping your other friend, shady as your proprietor (Maleficent) may be.

 

And yet, he was far less concerned with Kairi's safety and well being while the island was being consumed by the Abyss, the resulting loss of her heart being his fault almost entirely. He only starts to truly care about her when she becomes a thing to save.

 

You say that like Riku didn't treat Sora and Kairi well until after this whole debacle went down, which can't be true. And It's not that he didn't care about her or Sora, it's that was drunk on euphoria from the Darkness. Which is still kind of shitty on his part, but still, different thing.

 

Oh yeah, and ignore that last part, that was me getting ahead of myself.

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by Firaga Sensei

I think you made a really good point, man. Donald was indeed a jerk throughout KH1, and him kinda pushing Riku towards Maleficent's side seems really plausible to me.

See, this kind of interaction and development that happens later on in the game is what makes me baffled and disgusted at the huge change Donald's character got in KH2.

See, this kind of interaction and development that happens later on in the game is what makes me baffled and disgusted at the huge change Donald's character got in KH2.

 

I don't follow you, what huge change?

See, this kind of interaction and development that happens later on in the game is what makes me baffled and disgusted at the huge change Donald's character got in KH2.

What change Donalds just less of a jerk in KH2...

What change Donalds just less of a jerk in KH2...

 

 

I don't follow you, what huge change?

Making him almost exclusively comedic relief while also being an echo of Sora's attitude and opinions. Never liked how he acted in KH2.

Making him almost exclusively comedic relief while also being an echo of Sora's attitude and opinions. Never liked how he acted in KH2.

 

Yeah, well that's character development. He wasn't the big hoss in KH1 or anything, he was just a jerk. And by KH2, both he and Goofy were now in full support of Sora and showed that even after everything that happened to them, they'd stay true friends. It's sweet. What, did you want a Donald subplot? About what?

Edited September 17, 20169 yr by Firaga Sensei

Yeah, well that's character development. He wasn't the big hoss in KH1 or anything, he was just a jerk. And by KH2, both he and Goofy were now in full support of Sora and showed that even after everything that happened to them, they'd stay true friends. It's sweet. What, did you want a Donald subplot? About what?

Being a copy is not character development, getting over that jerkiness while still being Donald is. It didn't even need a subplot, just a couple of scenes where it happens and that's it. KH2 has enough filler as it is.

Being a copy is not character development, getting over that jerkiness while still being Donald is. It didn't even need a subplot, just a couple of scenes where it happens and that's it. KH2 has enough filler as it is.

 

He doesn't act anything like Sora. He's still the same Donald except now he's less of an asshole. How is he a copy? Just because they share the same morals? He's just sticking by his friend because they have similar philosophies, a philosophy that Sora helped him learn throughout KH1 and now can apply by himself in KH2. He's being a better friend and a better person.