People who try to defend KH HD ReMixes

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

It's still not my problem, which is my point.

But my point is it exists and you just acknowledged it. (⌐■ ͜ʖ■)

[Firaga 5,947]

But my point is it exists and you just acknowledged it. (⌐■ ͜ʖ■)

 

I acknowledged it, but that doesn't mean that it's right or that I agree with you.

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

On the flip side, saying "this happened in my copy so it must happen in EVERY copy" is equally rediculous, is it not? No one is saying it never happens, just that it's not as prevalant a problem as people make it out to be. You're making a bigger deal out of this than it is. You're also making some very unfair comparisons. Your compairing the HD remixes, games that where made in the span of a year, to KH3, a game that's been in developent for three years. Quite simply, you are overreacating.

I don't think you quite understand; it is proven to happen in every copy, that is not a matter of opinion. It is not a "disc problem" or a "bad copy". Everyone will experience at least some of these issues. Bad loading, glitches, pause lags, crashes, etc. Whether you run into it or not is not my problem, but you cannot counter the fact that it occur in every single copy of the HD remixes. Also yes, I'm comparing the HD remixes to KH3 because the same team is making it. Is it an unfair comparison? Probably. However, it's just a warning to people who think these issues aren't a problem, those who want Square to hurry up and rush KH3, because this is the perfect example of a rushed product. I'm not overreacting, or else 90% of this community would be overreacting to KH3. All I'm saying is to raise some awareness, but you seem to act as if I just hating on the HD ReMixes. Let me make this clear. I am not hating on the HD ReMixes. I am saying that they could've been made better and less lazily to maximize our gaming experience.

 

You know why I defend them? Because I genuinely don't care that much. There are definitely issues, sure, but I've barely run into them so it really doesn't bother me. Whenever someone talks about how shit they are, it just comes out as cartoonishly exaggerated, because most of the stuff is pretty rare, load times aside which don't really bug me.

It's true. These are minor issues and for the most part, many will not run into it. However you have to understand; issues are issues, and if we want the best for our future KH games, I think it's fair to make Square at least aware of the issues that we've run into. We should always strive for the best games possible from our gaming companies, and this is no different.

 

Others have already pointed most of your fallacies out, so I'm just going to address the one that bugs me the most. So just because you experienced all these glitches but other people haven't means that they are no longer entitled to express any opinion to this topic opposite or even slightly different than yours? What a load of bunk man, even if several people have experienced the same glitches, if other gamers haven't and have had a mostly positive experience with the games, they ARE allowed to defend the titles if they want to, just as people like you are allowed to express your grievances when they've had a negative experience.

 

You don't understand my point; I don't think any of these issues make the game actually bad or unplayable. However, some can interfere with gameplay experience which is exactly why I wanted to point this out. You'd be surprised at the number of people trying to defend 2.5 just because it's 2.5. So other people haven't experienced these glitches and loved the game, good for them. However, if they come up and say 2.5 is flawless and Square has been doing a good job with the games, what'll that make them think? That doing a subpar, lazy job is enough for our gameplay experience? That we'll be satisfied with everything they give out, even if it's complete garbage? They can like the game; I'm not stopping them from that at all. They can go through the game without any glitches or care in the world about the bad loading and never run into crashes. They can have an amazing gameplay experience. However, if they say that issues in 2.5 don't exist and continue pretending Square wasn't creating a lazily made port, they are wrong. This is not an opinion as you pointed out, it's clear fact. These glitches and bugs exist on EVERY disk of KH2.5, and that, you cannot disprove.

You guys are assuming I'm hating on the game, which I'm not. I wont' lie, I enjoyed 2.5's experience. I enjoyed playing 2FM in English, I enjoyed BBS with better controls. I enjoyed 1.5's cutscene skips, playing 1FM in English, playing Re:CoM in HD. I loved all these things. However, what I cannot forgive are the existence of these issues. Does it matter much? Not really. Does it affect my gameplay experience? Occasionally, but it's not like it'll make me despise the game. I want to make that clear.

 

What I WAS complaining about are the existence of these issues. I don't care how significant or insignificant these issues are. If they exist, they're there. KH2.5 and 1.5 are HD ReMixes, and while 1.5 can be excused, 2.5 is infinitely worse than 2FM original (excluding graphics and music obviously). That, to me, is a sign of laziness from Square. If they make games with bugs and glitches as a result of trying to meet a certain timeframe, I don't want people rushing them to have KH3 come out because it could potentially have the same problems. Will it affect your gameplay experience? Maybe a little. However, we should be striving for the best from our video game companies, so why would you want a KH3 with bugs and glitches, when you can have a flawless KH3 that's fluid and stable, and overall just an amazing experience? That was the point I was trying to get across; don't deny that these issues exist, because they do. If you haven't seen them or think they don't affect your experience, good for you. However, they can affect other people, which is also why we should work our hardest to avoid such things in the future of KH.

If it still doesn't make sense to you, think of it this way: even if you supported Square in the porting of the HD Remixes, what will you get from it? What will you accomplish? At least using constructive criticism can potentially get you somewhere, and give Square a hint to "not rush their games". Simply sitting and acting like 2.5 is 100% okay and flawless won't get you anywhere, so you may as well use the opportunity to raise some awareness.

Edited July 20, 2016 by thatkingdomheartsguy

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

I don't think you quite understand; it is proven to happen in every copy, that is not a matter of opinion. Whether you run into it or not is not my problem, but you cannot counter the fact that it occur in every single copy of the HD remixes. Also yes, I'm comparing the HD remixes to KH3 because the same team is making it. Is it an unfair comparison? Probably. However, it's just a warning to people who think these issues aren't a problem, those who want Square to hurry up and rush KH3, because this is the perfect example of a rushed product. I'm not overreacting, or else 90% of this community would be overreacting to KH3.

 

It's true. These are minor issues and for the most part, many will not run into it. However you have to understand; issues are issues, and if we want the best for our future KH games, I think it's fair to make Square at least aware of the issues that we've run into. We should always strive for the best games possible from our gaming companies, and this is no different.

 

You don't understand my point; I don't think any of these issues make the game actually bad or unplayable. However, some can interfere with gameplay experience which is exactly why I wanted to point this out. You'd be surprised at the number of people trying to defend 2.5 just because it's 2.5. So other people haven't experienced these glitches and loved the game, good for them. However, if they come up and say 2.5 is flawless and Square has been doing a good job with the games, what'll that make them think? That doing a subpar, lazy job is enough for our gameplay experience? That we'll be satisfied with everything they give out, even if it's complete garbage? They can like the game; I'm not stopping them from that at all. They can go through the game without any glitches or care in the world about the bad loading and never run into crashes. They can have an amazing gameplay experience. However, if they say that issues in 2.5 don't exist and continue pretending Square wasn't creating a lazily made port, they are wrong. This is not an opinion as you pointed out, it's clear fact. These glitches and bugs exist on EVERY disk of KH2.5, and that, you cannot disprove.

You guys are assuming I'm hating on the game, which I'm not. I wont' lie, I enjoyed 2.5's experience. I enjoyed playing 2FM in English, I enjoyed BBS with better controls. I enjoyed 1.5's cutscene skips, playing 1FM in English, playing Re:CoM in HD. I loved all these things. However, what I cannot forgive are the existence of these issues. Does it matter much? Not really. Does it affect my gameplay experience? Occasionally, but it's not like it'll make me despise the game. I want to make that clear.

 

What I WAS complaining about are the existence of these issues. I don't care how significant or insignificant these issues are. If they exist, they're there. KH2.5 and 1.5 are HD ReMixes, and while 1.5 can be excused, 2.5 is infinitely worse than 2FM original (excluding graphics and music obviously). That, to me, is a sign of laziness from Square. If they make games with bugs and glitches as a result of trying to meet a certain timeframe, I don't want people rushing them to have KH3 come out because it could potentially have the same problems. Will it affect your gameplay experience? Maybe a little. However, we should be striving for the best from our video game companies, so why would you want a KH3 with bugs and glitches, when you can have a flawless KH3 that's fluid and stable, and overall just an amazing experience? That was the point I was trying to get across; don't deny that these issues exist, because they do. If you haven't seen them or think they don't affect your experience, good for you. However, they can affect other people, which is also why we should work our hardest to avoid such things in the future of KH.

You missed my point. My problem was that you said "you cannot defend this title". That's a load of bull. As was pointed out, there are many good things about this title that outweigh the few unfortunate bad things. While glitches are things that are worth complaining about, it's pretty stupid to ignore just how well handled other parts are. The graphics still look amazing, the music is some of the best in the series so far, the gameplay is still very playable, all the Final Mix content is translated and dubbed for the first time, and despite the fact they had to remove a few things they still went the extra mile to add a few more things in. There's plenty to defend this game with, just as there enough issues to point out. You make a good point in that these kinds of things should be pointed out and addressed so that this kind of thing doesn't repeat in later remasters or even entirely new games. But my point is that you're not giving enough people who like this game enough credit. I'm sure you've come across one or two people with "blind praise" for this game, but a majority of fans that I've seen usually tend to have a good head on their shoulders, so it's not like everyone who supports this game thinks it's absolutely flawless and has no issues whatsoever. I'm sure the glitches and bugs do exist in most copies, but they still can't reliably be triggered in every version of the game, hence why this is not considered a widespread issue and why 2.5 is still widely considered a positive experience. The fact that the glitches and bugs exist can not be denied, but the fact that it doesn't tarnish the whole experience can't be denied either. This kind of thing should still be addressed and corrected in future projects and there should be no excuse for this sort of thing happening again in a future KH game, but it has not kept 2.5 from still being a fun and enjoyable game experience.

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

You missed my point. My problem was that you said "you cannot defend this title". That's a load of bull. As was pointed out, there are many good things about this title that outweigh the few unfortunate bad things. While glitches are things that are worth complaining about, it's pretty stupid to ignore just how well handled other parts are. The graphics still look amazing, the music is some of the best in the series so far, the gameplay is still very playable, all the Final Mix content is translated and dubbed for the first time, and despite the fact they had to remove a few things they still went the extra mile to add a few more things in. There's plenty to defend this game with, just as there enough issues to point out. You make a good point in that these kinds of things should be pointed out and addressed so that this kind of thing doesn't repeat in later remasters or even entirely new games. But my point is that you're not giving enough people who like this game enough credit. I'm sure you've come across one or two people with "blind praise" for this game, but a majority of fans that I've seen usually tend to have a good head on their shoulders, so it's not like everyone who supports this game thinks it's absolutely flawless and has no issues whatsoever. I'm sure the glitches and bugs do exist in most copies, but they still can't reliably be triggered in every version of the game, hence why this is not considered a widespread issue and why 2.5 is still widely considered a positive experience. The fact that the glitches and bugs exist can not be denied, but the fact that it doesn't tarnish the whole experience can't be denied either. This kind of thing should still be addressed and corrected in future projects and there should be no excuse for this sort of thing happening again in a future KH game, but it has not kept 2.5 from still being a fun and enjoyable game experience.

Yes, and notice how I never mentioned that 2.5 was a bad game. I didn't say "you cannot defend this title" although I can see how my intial post can come off meaning like that, so that's a wording mistake on my part. I meant that you cannot defend the fact that these issues exist, which a surprising number of fans actually try to do. I even stated that these issues for the most part won't affect others that much, but people who disagree and say that it doesn't exist are the ones who are wrong. 

 

I just don't see any point in sitting around and pretending there are no issues with 2.5, which a lot of people do. Constructive criticism isn't a bad thing, but people seem to automatically assume it's hate, which is also what a lot of people thought my post was. I'm not hating on the game, I'm literally saying "hey, these issues are real, and whether it affects you or not, you should always strive for Square to provide the best gameplay experience possible, so don't rush them or else we might have a diminished KH3 experience."

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

Yes, and notice how I never mentioned that 2.5 was a bad game. I didn't say "you cannot defend this title" although I can see how my intial post can come off meaning like that, so that's a wording mistake on my part. I meant that you cannot defend the fact that these issues exist, which a surprising number of fans actually try to do. I even stated that these issues for the most part won't affect others that much, but people who disagree and say that it doesn't exist are the ones who are wrong. 

 

I just don't see any point in sitting around and pretending there are no issues with 2.5, which a lot of people do. Constructive criticism isn't a bad thing, but people seem to automatically assume it's hate, which is also what a lot of people thought my post was. I'm not hating on the game, I'm literally saying "hey, these issues are real, and whether it affects you or not, you should always strive for Square to provide the best gameplay experience possible, so don't rush them or else we might have a diminished KH3 experience."

Well in my opinion, I think your real problem in that case was that you came off rather strong about it. I understand it's something that's important to talk about, but understand that if you start off with that kind of an attitude, people are going to feel like they're being pressured or intimidated. You were so caught up in how "it's something that people deny" and "you can not deny it" that it took me this long to find us on the same page. It's not addressing the issue that's the problem, it's in how you address it. People probably thought you weren't being too approachable about this and took it the wrong way, or they felt that it sounded too ranty and that it wasn't worth their time or something. At least, that's my impression of how this went. I'm sorry for any confusion or misunderstanding I may have contributed to.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Hero of Light XIV

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

Well in my opinion, I think your real problem in that case was that you came off rather strong about it. I understand it's something that's important to talk about, but understand that if you start off with that kind of an attitude, people are going to feel like they're being pressured or intimidated. You were so caught up in how "it's something that people deny" and "you can not deny it" that it took me this long to find us on the same page. It's not addressing the issue that's the problem, it's in how you address it. People probably thought you weren't being too approachable about this and took it the wrong way, or they felt that it sounded too ranty and that it wasn't worth their time or something. At least, that's my impression of how this went. I'm sorry for any confusion or misunderstanding I may have contributed to.

Yeah, that was partially my fault too. I get a bit passionate when talking about certain subjects, and I guess it just sort of rubbed people in the wrong way. I honestly don't mean any hate nor do I want to start any arguments; I just wanted to get my point out, that's all.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

Yeah, that was partially my fault too. I get a bit passionate when talking about certain subjects, and I guess it just sort of rubbed people in the wrong way. I honestly don't mean any hate nor do I want to start any arguments; I just wanted to get my point out, that's all.

Well sorry if I made a bigger deal out of it than it should have been. Like I've said, I haven't come across too many of those bugs, but there are still tiny little nitpicks I have about the remasters, despite how much I love them and still play them again and again.

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Thing is, you seem to be assuming that KH3 is being rushed when it isn't. Three to five years is an averge development cycle for video games, so it's already met the minimum standard. Not game, no matter how well executed, is going to be totally flawless, that just an unrealistic expectation because perfection is non existant. They made 1.5 and 2.5 in one heat each and it only had a few minor bugs that you acruelly have to try to trigger, so we're perfectly justified in saying KH3 is going to be fine because it has already had a longer development cycle. There's really no need to worry about KH3s quality because, as I said above, it's not being rushed.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Isamu_Kuno

[Way2Dawn 80]

Honestly I never even knew that these were problems until you said so, so I find it pretty difficult to immediately start criticizing the game, its development, etc.  You showed us those clips of Bizkit encountering some of these glitches during his runs, and while I understood where you were coming from, I still think they did a great job, because that was my experience with the games.  

 

I am going to formulate an opinion based off of my experiences, not someone elses.  I kind of hate it when people jump on a bandwagon based off of what someone else says.  Like Cynical and Skywardwing saying there are FPS drops in 0.2, then everyone goes KH3 WILL HAVE FPS PROBLEMS!?!?! RAWRRRR!!  So I'm not going to defend the argument of "Lazy Development or testing" because that's not how I see it.

 

Just let people experience the game, then formulate their own opinion

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

Thing is, you seem to be assuming that KH3 is being rushed when it isn't. Three to five years is an averge development cycle for video games, so it's already met the minimum standard. Not game, no matter how well executed, is going to be totally flawless, that just an unrealistic expectation because perfection is non existant. They made 1.5 and 2.5 in one heat each and it only had a few minor bugs that you acruelly have to try to trigger, so we're perfectly justified in saying KH3 is going to be fine because it has already had a longer development cycle. There's really no need to worry about KH3s quality because, as I said above, it's not being rushed.

But how can you prove that KH3's quality won't be rushed, especially with the multitude of fans urging Square to set a release date, urging them to release it faster? You never know what can happen. It doesn't matter if they've been in development for so long; the game clearly isn't finished yet, or else it would've been released or we would at least have a clue about the release date. Right now, we have little to nothing. Now I'm not saying KH3 will definitely be a rushed product if we continue like this, but I'm just saying there is a potential risk of it happening.

 

 

Honestly I never even knew that these were problems until you said so, so I find it pretty difficult to immediately start criticizing the game, its development, etc.  You showed us those clips of Bizkit encountering some of these glitches during his runs, and while I understood where you were coming from, I still think they did a great job, because that was my experience with the games.  

 

I am going to formulate an opinion based off of my experiences, not someone elses.  I kind of hate it when people jump on a bandwagon based off of what someone else says.  Like Cynical and Skywardwing saying there are FPS drops in 0.2, then everyone goes KH3 WILL HAVE FPS PROBLEMS!?!?! RAWRRRR!!  So I'm not going to defend the argument of "Lazy Development or testing" because that's not how I see it.

 

Just let people experience the game, then formulate their own opinion

Yeah, I'm a pretty hardcore KH player so I've encountered quite a few of these problems, and while not enough to make me hate the game, it does lessen my gameplay experience considerably. Of course, I understand why others love the game to death, and that's completely fine; I never said you couldn't do that. What I am saying however, is denying these problems and flaws exist is not an opinion, it's a wrong fact. 

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

But how can you prove that KH3's quality won't be rushed, especially with the multitude of fans urging Square to set a release date, urging them to release it faster? You never know what can happen. It doesn't matter if they've been in development for so long; the game clearly isn't finished yet, or else it would've been released or we would at least have a clue about the release date. Right now, we have little to nothing. Now I'm not saying KH3 will definitely be a rushed product if we continue like this, but I'm just saying there is a potential risk of it happening.

 

 

Yeah, I'm a pretty hardcore KH player so I've encountered quite a few of these problems, and while not enough to make me hate the game, it does lessen my gameplay experience considerably. Of course, I understand why others love the game to death, and that's completely fine; I never said you couldn't do that. What I am saying however, is denying these problems and flaws exist is not an opinion, it's a wrong fact. 

Because, like you said, it's not done yet and we don't have a release window. We know it has at least one more year of development, putting the developent at at least four years. People say "the loger it takes the better", but any more than five years and it enters "development hell" in which a lot of things can go wrong. Right now there's no need to worry.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Isamu_Kuno

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

Because, like you said, it's not done yet and we don't have a release window. We know it has at least one more year of development, putting the developent at at least four years. People say "the loger it takes the better", but any more than five years and it enters "development hell" in which a lot of things can go wrong. Right now there's no need to worry.

To each their own I suppose. I personally don't think there's a definitive proof of this "development hell" you're mentioning. In fact, I fear more that they'd be pressured to release the game quickly due to overeager fans, so they end up releasing a half finished product without doing much testing (basically like 2.5).  Besides, seeing as Osaka Team hasn't come up with any KH games that's impressed me so far and their track record for bad and lazy ports, I'm not gonna keep my hopes up...

[Jake 1,488]

Kingdom Hearts III is a much bigger title than 1.5 or 2.5. Yes, they wanted to try their best with 1.5/2.5, but they made mistakes. The reason? Because they're focused on Kingdom Hearts III. Square knows that KH3 is their most anticipated title alongside Final Fantasy XV. If they screwed up, all those years of fans hyped would go down the drain. They are trying to focus on making KH3 the best game in franchise history, while trying to please fans. It's hard to do all that work and not screw up.

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

Kingdom Hearts III is a much bigger title than 1.5 or 2.5. Yes, they wanted to try their best with 1.5/2.5, but they made mistakes. The reason? Because they're focused on Kingdom Hearts III. Square knows that KH3 is their most anticipated title alongside Final Fantasy XV. If they screwed up, all those years of fans hyped would go down the drain. They are trying to focus on making KH3 the best game in franchise history, while trying to please fans. It's hard to do all that work and not screw up.

can't exactly say that unless you work for Square Enix. See, this is the problem I see in a bunch of fans. They automatically assume that Square will be careful with the game, just because it's KH3 and it's probably one of the most anticipated games they've ever made. Sure, it seems logical, but you cannot prove that KH3 will not have these issues 1.5/2.5 has. Not even I think it'll be as bad; however, Osaka has yet to make a game that impresses me like KH2 did, so I suppose that's where a bit of my pessimism comes from.

 

Oh well. If I go on any longer, people will call me a hype killer and all that stuff, etc. etc. You guys can think what you want for KH3, get hyped up for it, be super excited and confident it will be good because "it's KH3, of course it'll be good". However, unless the game comes out and proves itself to be a fun and good game to me, I won't get my hopes up too much. 

[Dagesh Lene 366]

I personally have never experienced any of these issues other than the long loading times, which didn't really bother me that much.  It might be because I don't use some of the strategies that other people use, such as going into Drive Form and reverting right away to heal, but whatever the reason, I just don't experience most of those issues.  I have a lot of nitpicks, but overall, I felt like they were good games.  The issues I faced and the nitpicks I have are not enough to ruin the game for me.  So, I don't feel that I have a reason to complain.  However, if other people have issues and feel the need to complain, then by all means, complain.  Square-Enix needs to know if you have complaints.  I won't pretend that these issues don't exist for others.  However, if I don't feel the need to complain, I should not have to complain.