Something doesn't sit right with me about the Osaka team developing KH3.  Maybe I really have nothing to worry about, but there are some things the Osaka team did wrong IMO that I really don't want to see them do again in KH3. Don't get me wrong, I really liked BBS and 3D, but... 

 

• Their levels and bosses weren't as involved as KH1 and 2. Like, think back to KH1 and 2, there were: complicated and open level designs and goals (Deep Jungle, Space Paranoids, and Wonderland come to mind). BBS and 3D were more like... "go here---> fight basic enemies----> go back here----> go here---> fight boss---> finish world's storyline". 
• The worlds didn't help the storyline as much as they did in 1 and 2. 1, the worlds needed keyholes locked, main storyline enemies challanged, etc. Example, Beast being deceived by Xaldin in 2, Peter Pan teaching Sora to fly in 1, Tron helping save Hollow Bastion. And Osaka's games, it was just, go to world, stuff happens in world, leave world. Not to mention that in KH3D, the Keyhole would appear at the end of the level for absolutely no apparent reason. 
• Osaka's games lacked an "unexpected change in playable character" in their games. Like, KH1: after beating Ansem, you played as a heartless for a little while. in KH2, you suddenly get control of Riku in the middle of the final battle. Or when you died in random battles and suddenly MIckey jumps in. They all provided a brief "whoa!" moment for me, and switched things up on the player. Drop system doesn't count. (Not saying I disliked the drop system, in fact I thought it was really neat.) The sudden "oh wait am I really playing as X?!" moment you get at those points in 1 and 2 were absent in the others.*
• idk why this makes me nervous, but one article I read said "Nomura and his team are not working on KH3." I dunno, the fact that it says Nomura isn't involved makes me nervous. But... he was involved in BBS and 3D, right...? Are they simply saying this game is made the same way as those? Nomura must be involved. I must have read it wrong. see how much I'm panicking over something this dumb?  
• Lack of connection to previously important characters. Kairi. Donald. Goofy. 'nuff said. At least Donald and Goofy are gonna be in the party here...hopefully
• There was something about looking at Square's Wikipedia page (and its list of which department made what) and seeing that 1 and 2 were made under Square's 1st Prodction department. But then you look down at their lower departments, and it wouldn't be until then that you would see games like BBS and 3D. It almost makes them look... less significant. I feel like it would be weird to see Kingdom freaking Hearts 3, the game the world's been waiting on baited breath for, in some lesser department with a lower budget. Of course, I don't know this for certain, but, it's just been popping into my head.

 

I want to hear your guys's opinion on what I have to say. Do I have facts wrong in my bullet points? Tell me. Let's discuss this!

 

 

* (I just remembered the Lingering Will battle in BBS. I guess this counts, but it's even cooler to suddenly have a totally new moveset and a different character, like in 2.)

I am nervous about it as well. I mean, it's Kingdom Hearts III. Osaka did an okay job with KH3D, but it didn't feel much like a KH game. I think we should get the Kingdom Hearts team to work on it, or maybe a team up thing. *joins*

Mine as well add that fact that's its multi-plat, and that has more production than what Osaka did with the previous KH games.

 

But we'll see, an in-experienced new dev team made Sly 4, and that was brilliant! All we have to do is wait....

I agree with bullets 1,2, 3 and 5 definitely.KH1 had Disney chars that were actually into the story(ex.Triton telling Sora the key bearer must not meddle in the affairs of other worlds, the evil Disney villain syndicate.)In KH2 the final fantasy chars helping Sora after Goofy seemingly died.Also as annoying as Donald and Goofy were in Kh1 and 2(dying),I actually miss the" all for one and one for all" trifecta that was the dream team.If Kairi will be a better keyblade wielder, make her as important as she was in KH1.Not saying I do not like the Osaka team.Their gameplay is phenominal, but lets go back to KH2's gameplay formula, with a KH1-depth story, with a dream drop distance twist.Character change should definitely make a return.Maybe play as riku,kairi,former keyblade wielders.

Your points aren't necessarily wrong, but I think you are over worrying. Osaka is experienced and I have no idea where you read Nomura was not involved but thats a big lie. He is the creator of the game and director of the game. Every final decision is his.

 

- Also BBS and 3D were on handhelds, each with limitations to game size. Granted, the 3DS presents games at around the same quality as PS2 and PSP isnt far off, they storage size for a UMD and 3DS cartridge is significantly smaller than that of a PS2 dvd. KH3D is on a 4 GB 3DS cartridge and I don't know the size of UMD's but it is smaller than that.

 

Yet look at what Osaka did, despite these limitations.

- BBS has 3 story lines. 3 STORYLINES!!!! Each with around 15 hours of playtime. Imagine if it had only been one character, what they could have done, but Nomura wanted all 3 characters playable and that was the approach he chose. It also introduced multiplayer, a first in the series and those capabilities surely took up some space. And the command forms were awesome! I loved leveling up and unlocking new possible forms throughout the game.

 

- 3D features gigantic worlds, larger than any we had seen before in a KH game. They had unbelievable vertical depth as well as large open settings. Previous KH games were limited to maybe one large area per world. It also featured dream eaters, which there are around 50 different ones. Now double that because of spirits and nightmares. Thats over double the normal amount of enemies in a KH game. BBS only had about 30 different unversed. Plus the entire interface of bonding with dream eaters.

 

At first glance you may want to brush off their work but when you look deep into the details of what they accomplished under the limitations they had, they made some truly astounding progress with the series and have also made the only 2 games to actually progress the story line further since KH2. 

 

- Now you can complain that you want the other team to develop KH3, and nobody has said they wont help, but for now, they are locked up with FF 15 and have been for 7 years. Nomura isnt going to let them move on to something else until FF 15 is done.

 

Now look ahead to what they have to work with on PS4 and Xbox One:

- 50 GB blu ray discs

- lightning fast processors

- 8 GB of RAM (though significantly faster RAM in the PS4 and pretty cheap RAM in the Xbox)

- High powered graphics cards.

and MUCH MUCH more

 

I personally believe KH3 will be the best KH yet, because with Nomura at the helm its gonna be epic no matter who develops it. Osaka's gonna do great.

I agree with bullets 1,2, 3 and 5 definitely.KH1 had Disney chars that were actually into the story(ex.Triton telling Sora the key bearer must not meddle in the affairs of other worlds, the evil Disney villain syndicate.)In KH2 the final fantasy chars helping Sora after Goofy seemingly died.Also as annoying as Donald and Goofy were in Kh1 and 2(dying),I actually miss the" all for one and one for all" trifecta that was the dream team.If Kairi will be a better keyblade wielder, make her as important as she was in KH1.Not saying I do not like the Osaka team.Their gameplay is phenominal, but lets go back to KH2's gameplay formula, with a KH1-depth story, with a dream drop distance twist.Character change should definitely make a return.Maybe play as riku,kairi,former keyblade wielders.

 

Nomura stated earlier that the gameplay and battle system would be an evolved version of KH2's system with features added in from the various handheld titles. Command forms could come into play as well as flow motion (sora did jump off walls in the teaser)

Edited June 12, 201312 yr by Nathan Hatton

I'm not at all worried with Osaka developing KH3. My only real comment is that I think you may be thinking too highly of kh2 (although I agree with your specific examples). Worlds like Atlantica and Pride Lands had nothing to do with the overall plot, and those worlds with the organizations involvement I would argue to be a bit contrived. I'm not saying I don't have a bone to pick with the other games too (except kh1 my precious) but Osaka's games have been just as good as the "KH Team's" games in my opinion.

Square's got our backs. I'm sure they had this planned for a while. Osaka did CREATE the 2 games which will have arguably the MOST impact on the storyline of Kingdom Hearts III. 

 

DDD- The most apparent prequel to KH3 we have. Introduction of 7 vs. 13, flow motion, reiteration of the problems we face regarding the aftermath of previous titles and what will have to happen in the future.  

BBS- The creation of characters such as MX, Eraqus, Terra, Aqua, Ven, etc. Need I say more?

 

And on top of all of this, in an interview that just happened today, Nomura said that it will be a lot more like the previous console versions and he will make sure of it. He's going to mostly have it be the same style as KH2 with some new things thrown in that caught on better when they were introduced (possibly Command Styles/Flow Motion or possibly others). So, it more than likely WILL have the same feel as KH/KH2 did way back when. 

 

At the end of the day, this is Nomura's love child and he's not going to let it go even remotely wrong. I'm sure of it. 

Edited June 12, 201312 yr by FightTheDarkness

Your points aren't necessarily wrong, but I think you are over worrying. Osaka is experienced and I have no idea where you read Nomura was not involved but thats a big lie. He is the creator of the game and director of the game. Every final decision is his.

 

- Also BBS and 3D were on handhelds, each with limitations to game size. Granted, the 3DS presents games at around the same quality as PS2 and PSP isnt far off, they storage size for a UMD and 3DS cartridge is significantly smaller than that of a PS2 dvd. KH3D is on a 4 GB 3DS cartridge and I don't know the size of UMD's but it is smaller than that.

 

Yet look at what Osaka did, despite these limitations.

- BBS has 3 story lines. 3 STORYLINES!!!! Each with around 15 hours of playtime. Imagine if it had only been one character, what they could have done, but Nomura wanted all 3 characters playable and that was the approach he chose. It also introduced multiplayer, a first in the series and those capabilities surely took up some space. And the command forms were awesome! I loved leveling up and unlocking new possible forms throughout the game.

 

- 3D features gigantic worlds, larger than any we had seen before in a KH game. They had unbelievable vertical depth as well as large open settings. Previous KH games were limited to maybe one large area per world. It also featured dream eaters, which there are around 50 different ones. Now double that because of spirits and nightmares. Thats over double the normal amount of enemies in a KH game. BBS only had about 30 different unversed. Plus the entire interface of bonding with dream eaters.

 

At first glance you may want to brush off their work but when you look deep into the details of what they accomplished under the limitations they had, they made some truly astounding progress with the series and have also made the only 2 games to actually progress the story line further since KH2. 

 

- Now you can complain that you want the other team to develop KH3, and nobody has said they wont help, but for now, they are locked up with FF 15 and have been for 7 years. Nomura isnt going to let them move on to something else until FF 15 is done.

 

Now look ahead to what they have to work with on PS4 and Xbox One:

- 50 GB blu ray discs

- lightning fast processors

- 8 GB of RAM (though significantly faster RAM in the PS4 and pretty cheap RAM in the Xbox)

- High powered graphics cards.

and MUCH MUCH more

 

I personally believe KH3 will be the best KH yet, because with Nomura at the helm its gonna be epic no matter who develops it. Osaka's gonna do great.

 

Nomura stated earlier that the gameplay and battle system would be an evolved version of KH2's system with features added in from the various handheld titles. Command forms could come into play as well as flow motion (sora did jump off walls in the teaser)

You know what? You make some excellent points. I guess the reason I made this topic was so I could get a response like yours to put my mind at ease a little. (because the points I had were legitimate concerns of mine, not just complaints. Because, don't get me wrong, I really do love BBS and 3D, I just admit that they have a couple more flaws than the PS2 games.)

 

 

I'm not at all worried with Osaka developing KH3. My only real comment is that I think you may be thinking too highly of kh2 (although I agree with your specific examples). Worlds like Atlantica and Pride Lands had nothing to do with the overall plot, and those worlds with the organizations involvement I would argue to be a bit contrived. I'm not saying I don't have a bone to pick with the other games too (except kh1 my precious) but Osaka's games have been just as good as the "KH Team's" games in my opinion.

Eh, I'm not saying KH2 was perfect. And now that you mention Atlantica, I remembered how much of a fail that world was in 2. But still, after Nathan's response, I feel a bit more hopeful about 3 now. 

Your points aren't necessarily wrong, but I think you are over worrying. Osaka is experienced and I have no idea where you read Nomura was not involved but thats a big lie. He is the creator of the game and director of the game. Every final decision is his.

 

- Also BBS and 3D were on handhelds, each with limitations to game size. Granted, the 3DS presents games at around the same quality as PS2 and PSP isnt far off, they storage size for a UMD and 3DS cartridge is significantly smaller than that of a PS2 dvd. KH3D is on a 4 GB 3DS cartridge and I don't know the size of UMD's but it is smaller than that.

 

Yet look at what Osaka did, despite these limitations.

- BBS has 3 story lines. 3 STORYLINES!!!! Each with around 15 hours of playtime. Imagine if it had only been one character, what they could have done, but Nomura wanted all 3 characters playable and that was the approach he chose. It also introduced multiplayer, a first in the series and those capabilities surely took up some space. And the command forms were awesome! I loved leveling up and unlocking new possible forms throughout the game.

 

- 3D features gigantic worlds, larger than any we had seen before in a KH game. They had unbelievable vertical depth as well as large open settings. Previous KH games were limited to maybe one large area per world. It also featured dream eaters, which there are around 50 different ones. Now double that because of spirits and nightmares. Thats over double the normal amount of enemies in a KH game. BBS only had about 30 different unversed. Plus the entire interface of bonding with dream eaters.

 

At first glance you may want to brush off their work but when you look deep into the details of what they accomplished under the limitations they had, they made some truly astounding progress with the series and have also made the only 2 games to actually progress the story line further since KH2. 

 

- Now you can complain that you want the other team to develop KH3, and nobody has said they wont help, but for now, they are locked up with FF 15 and have been for 7 years. Nomura isnt going to let them move on to something else until FF 15 is done.

 

Now look ahead to what they have to work with on PS4 and Xbox One:

- 50 GB blu ray discs

- lightning fast processors

- 8 GB of RAM (though significantly faster RAM in the PS4 and pretty cheap RAM in the Xbox)

- High powered graphics cards.

and MUCH MUCH more

 

I personally believe KH3 will be the best KH yet, because with Nomura at the helm its gonna be epic no matter who develops it. Osaka's gonna do great.

 

Nomura stated earlier that the gameplay and battle system would be an evolved version of KH2's system with features added in from the various handheld titles. Command forms could come into play as well as flow motion (sora did jump off walls in the teaser)

I agree on Bbs.Kh:3d I loved, but after replaying a 3rd time...the dream eaters kinda fall flat. Rather than the old level grind, you have to train,love,feed, and scratch ur pet just to get the once more and second chance abilitiesOr u must have certain dream eaters in ur party to get x boost. Its not so much annoying as it is time consuming.Also,a different color palate doesn't count as more enemies (spirits/nightmares).

Square's got our backs. I'm sure they had this planned for a while. Osaka did CREATE the 2 games which will have arguably the MOST impact on the storyline of Kingdom Hearts III. 

 

DDD- The most apparent prequel to KH3 we have. Introduction of 7 vs. 13, flow motion, reiteration of the problems we face regarding the aftermath of previous titles and what will have to happen in the future.  

BBS- The creation of characters such as MX, Eraqus, Terra, Aqua, Ven, etc. Need I say more?

 

And on top of all of this, in an interview that just happened today, Nomura said that it will be a lot more like the previous console versions and he will make sure of it. He's going to mostly have it be the same style as KH2 with some new things thrown in that caught on better when they were introduced (possibly Command Styles/Flow Motion or possibly others). So, it more than likely WILL have the same feel as KH/KH2 did way back when. 

 

At the end of the day, this is Nomura's love child and he's not going to let it go even remotely wrong. I'm sure of it. 

Yeah and interview a while back did say that among all his other projects, Kingdom Hearts will always be his baby.Soon we will have Kh3!!!!

Your points aren't necessarily wrong, but I think you are over worrying. Osaka is experienced and I have no idea where you read Nomura was not involved but thats a big lie. He is the creator of the game and director of the game. Every final decision is his.

 

- Also BBS and 3D were on handhelds, each with limitations to game size. Granted, the 3DS presents games at around the same quality as PS2 and PSP isnt far off, they storage size for a UMD and 3DS cartridge is significantly smaller than that of a PS2 dvd. KH3D is on a 4 GB 3DS cartridge and I don't know the size of UMD's but it is smaller than that.

 

Yet look at what Osaka did, despite these limitations.

- BBS has 3 story lines. 3 STORYLINES!!!! Each with around 15 hours of playtime. Imagine if it had only been one character, what they could have done, but Nomura wanted all 3 characters playable and that was the approach he chose. It also introduced multiplayer, a first in the series and those capabilities surely took up some space. And the command forms were awesome! I loved leveling up and unlocking new possible forms throughout the game.

 

- 3D features gigantic worlds, larger than any we had seen before in a KH game. They had unbelievable vertical depth as well as large open settings. Previous KH games were limited to maybe one large area per world. It also featured dream eaters, which there are around 50 different ones. Now double that because of spirits and nightmares. Thats over double the normal amount of enemies in a KH game. BBS only had about 30 different unversed. Plus the entire interface of bonding with dream eaters.

 

At first glance you may want to brush off their work but when you look deep into the details of what they accomplished under the limitations they had, they made some truly astounding progress with the series and have also made the only 2 games to actually progress the story line further since KH2. 

 

- Now you can complain that you want the other team to develop KH3, and nobody has said they wont help, but for now, they are locked up with FF 15 and have been for 7 years. Nomura isnt going to let them move on to something else until FF 15 is done.

 

Now look ahead to what they have to work with on PS4 and Xbox One:

- 50 GB blu ray discs

- lightning fast processors

- 8 GB of RAM (though significantly faster RAM in the PS4 and pretty cheap RAM in the Xbox)

- High powered graphics cards.

and MUCH MUCH more

 

I personally believe KH3 will be the best KH yet, because with Nomura at the helm its gonna be epic no matter who develops it. Osaka's gonna do great.

 

Nomura stated earlier that the gameplay and battle system would be an evolved version of KH2's system with features added in from the various handheld titles. Command forms could come into play as well as flow motion (sora did jump off walls in the teaser)

 

You also made some good points.

Edited June 12, 201312 yr by FightTheDarkness

I am nervous about it as well. I mean, it's Kingdom Hearts III. Osaka did an okay job with KH3D, but it didn't feel much like a KH game. I think we should get the Kingdom Hearts team to work on it, or maybe a team up thing. *joins*

 

I'd say team up :] and i don't know, it pretty much felt like an ordinary Kingdom Hearts Game to me :].

I agree on Bbs.Kh:3d I loved, but after replaying a 3rd time...the dream eaters kinda fall flat. Rather than the old level grind, you have to train,love,feed, and scratch ur pet just to get the once more and second chance abilitiesOr u must have certain dream eaters in ur party to get x boost. Its not so much annoying as it is time consuming.Also,a different color palate doesn't count as more enemies (spirits/nightmares).

Oh yeah I agree that it got kind of annoying after awhile, my point was that because of the separate color palate and different fighting combinations as well as the modes of training spirits, it takes up space that could have been used in a separate direction, but that was what they chose and I did thoroughly enjoy it. BTW, the new pokemon games totally stole it with the whole petting, feeding, and playing with your pokemon. Very similar to KH3D

You know what? You make some excellent points. I guess the reason I made this topic was so I could get a response like yours to put my mind at ease a little. (because the points I had were legitimate concerns of mine, not just complaints. Because, don't get me wrong, I really do love BBS and 3D, I just admit that they have a couple more flaws than the PS2 games.)

 

 

Eh, I'm not saying KH2 was perfect. And now that you mention Atlantica, I remembered how much of a fail that world was in 2. But still, after Nathan's response, I feel a bit more hopeful about 3 now. 

Yeah I really don't think there is anything to worry about. I mean the taser looked great for the cutscene portion and the short tech demo at the end was just that, a tech demo; similar to the very early one for KH3D. Sora was in a generic outfit from a previous game, and he ran around with a keyblade, jumped off a wall, rode on a stream of shadows, and then swung at them at the end. If you recall the first tech demo for KH3D it showed sora in his KH1 clothes fighting the guard armor. Granted it had little bits of flowmotion involved, but I was very worried that it would be YET ANOTHER rehash of KH1. Thankfully, Nomura and the Osaka team took the heartless out and put the dream eaters in, creating a much better innovation. Remember, the game isn't coming until 2015 at the earliest. They have tons of time to tweak and correct and all the other stuff. If Nomura feels like they are struggling, Dev Team 1 (KH1, KH2, FFXV) finishes FFXV next year as it is due for release sometime in 2014, and he can get assistance if needed.

 

I like the comment about how this was his love child. It's so true. He was just a developer, granted one ot Square Enix's best, when they were looking for new ideas and he said what if we combine Disney with FF. A bunch of people thought he was crazy, but they knew how creative he was and had confidence in his abilitiy to make such an insane idea work. AND HE DID IT, which pushed him into the limelight as one of the greatest game creators out there. Every detail of every game has to be in place before he lets it go, hence the 7 years waiting for Versus, now 15. Kingdom Hearts was his first great creation, he certainly won't let it be his last.

Edited June 12, 201312 yr by Nathan Hatton

i know i shouldnt be here because im not nervous but i couldnt resist.

 

tetsuya nomura is still director, story director etc.

he said mainstream kh games should follow the same base format as kh 1 with slight developemnts,

so it will not be as "different" as the spin offs.

 

i mean just look at the new frickin' comand menu, really nothing to worry about guys

 

hope you all enjoy kh3 ~

Im glad im not the only one that is nervous. Things I noticed different from 1 and 2 and CoM with osaka team.

 

1 Leveling is much more difficult

2 Combat was stiff and not fluent. Recoded fixed it.

3 Secret boss battles 1 hit KO with BASIC attack combos. (BBS Mysterious figure)

 

I just hope they learned about how kh should be with remastering them.

 

also im tired of commands. they need to go