What happened to Axel's heart?

[rikunobodyxiii 700]

Stop!

Before you skip ahead and post that Lea's heart is with him, hence why he was reborn, realize I'm not talking about Lea's heart. I'm talking about Axel's heart. Let me explain.

 

In KH:DDD, it is revealed that a Nobody will try to, in essence, regrow a heart since it lost its own, and that these new hearts grow due to interaction with other hearts. We see this clearly with Roxas and Xion, with Ven's heart being the unseen heart that started their growth. So, with that in mind, it seems clear to me that Axel too would have grown his own heart, due to his time spent with Roxas and Xion. You can see it as far back as Chain of Memories, where he comments to himself over an emotional reaction he had. And his comments before his fading indicates that when he was around Roxas (and probably Xion, but he couldn't remember her at the time) he felt like he had a heart.

So, after Axel faded near the end of KH2, what happened to his fledgling heart? With no body, did it fade away to die, in essence? Did it combine with Lea's? Or is it in slumber some where?

This has been rolling around my head for a bit, and I wanted some other view points to see if I've missed something or help theorize what happened.

 

PS: While the most likely answer to this is that the theoretical heart of the nobody Axel is just another lose end left behind by on the fly writing and reconts, I would prefer to focus on more in universe answers rather then that, as that answer is boring and somewhat depressing.

[hatok 6,413]

I'd imagine it just overlapped with his own heart. Functionally, there's no difference. Lea and Axel are the same guy, so at worst the old heart is gone, and at best he has a backup heart

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

I made a thread on this whole topic of 'Where does a nobody's heart go' a while ago, basically axels heart just merged with Lea's heart

[rikunobodyxiii 700]

I'd imagine it just overlapped with his own heart. Functionally, there's no difference. Lea and Axel are the same guy, so at worst the old heart is gone, and at best he has a backup heart

I would argue that there would be some difference, but I don't think they would be significant enough to make the merger theory impossible.

I made a thread on this whole topic of 'Where does a nobody's heart go' a while ago, basically axels heart just merged with Lea's heart

Would you mind posting a link to that thread? I'd like to take a look at it.

[KeybladeLordCheeseCurd 1,542]

I'd imagine it just overlapped with his own heart. Functionally, there's no difference. Lea and Axel are the same guy, so at worst the old heart is gone, and at best he has a backup heart

Backup hearts sound awesome.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

 What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?

Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.

 

 

In nobodies they revive with their original heart. We can surmise their newly budding hearts just merged in with them.

It's based off the same body and soul and memories of said nobody It's just an accumulation of new memories,experiences, and emotions from that time period in their life. When Lea revived he still remembered everything during his time as a nobody bc he's still the same person as Axel just now with his original heart back plus whatever new memories and experiences he had as Axel adding on to it...Of course special nobodies are a diff case though.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Flaming Lea

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

I can't seem to find it at the moment and i'm running low on battery, I'll post it here if I manage to find it.

 

"Where do nobodies hearts go when they become whole" or "where do nobodies hearts go"

[rikunobodyxiii 700]

What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?

Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.

 

 

In nobodies they revive with their original heart. We can surmise their newly budding hearts just merged in with them.

It's based off the same body and soul and memories of said nobody It's just an accumulation of new memories,experiences, and emotions from that time period in their life. When Lea revived he still remembered everything during his time as a nobody bc he's still the same person as Axel just now with his original heart back plus whatever new memories and experiences he had as Axel adding on to it...Of course special nobodies are a diff case though.

Okay, I was separating memories from the concept of a heart in KH too much.

I can't seem to find it at the moment and i'm running low on battery, I'll post it here if I manage to find it.

 

"Where do nobodies hearts go when they become whole" or "where do nobodies hearts go"

I'll take a look for it. Thanks, man.

[Philip Ellwell 5,487]

I just assumed Axel's heart melded with Lea. They were pretty much the same person, so the loss of the old heart wouldn't change Lea or anything. 

Unless something changes, Lea seems to just be the only incarnation of Axel, with enough of his old memories to know what's been going on (Except for the memory gap of DAYS). 

[Wyatt Tyson 66]

It just merged with his old heart as Lea evidence as the first thoughts he has before waking up are his memories of Roxas when he was Axel. After all he is just a normal Nobody and Nobodies are typically nothing more but extensions of the original self's life. So whatever experiences he went through as the nobody Axel just simply went right back to him as the complete person, Lea. Got it memorized? 

[KingdomHearts3 2,591]

Axel had no heart. It was a burgeoning replacement that acted like one. That was destroyed when he was and the absent silhouette and his freed heart forged together again.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

It's likely that Axel's "heart" became fused with Lea's when he became whole again. Although it's also possible that Axel's heart never fully developed but was slowly forming while he was with Roxas. Either way, Axel's memories were the most important part of him, and they went to Lea when he became a person again, so either way he still values his friendship with Roxas (and perhaps Xion if any of her remains deep down in his memories).

[Ephemera 37]

 

 What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?

Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.

 

 

In nobodies they revive with their original heart. We can surmise their newly budding hearts just merged in with them.

It's based off the same body and soul and memories of said nobody It's just an accumulation of new memories,experiences, and emotions from that time period in their life. When Lea revived he still remembered everything during his time as a nobody bc he's still the same person as Axel just now with his original heart back plus whatever new memories and experiences he had as Axel adding on to it...Of course special nobodies are a diff case though.

 

Although this is a decent theory. i would very much prefer it be officially confirmed. 

 

Problem is NOmura doens't confirm that memories are the key aspect to creating a heart. Yes, its the one that gives it "form". But from what we've seen, when heartless get destroyed compared to the ball of light. It can be easy to distinuish what he meant. 

 

Still, the mechanic of growing a heart is still foggy. new experiences, new memories. but new emotions? See the ability to just gorw one is completely different. 

 

Still.....this idea never sat well with me. And although merging hearts seems to be the "easiest" way to answer it. By from what we know so far. Merging hearts hasn't been done. 

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Although this is a decent theory. i would very much prefer it be officially confirmed. 

 

Problem is NOmura doens't confirm that memories are the key aspect to creating a heart. Yes, its the one that gives it "form". But from what we've seen, when heartless get destroyed compared to the ball of light. It can be easy to distinuish what he meant. 

 

Still, the mechanic of growing a heart is still foggy. new experiences, new memories. but new emotions? See the ability to just gorw one is completely different. 

 

Still.....this idea never sat well with me. And although merging hearts seems to be the "easiest" way to answer it. By from what we know so far. Merging hearts hasn't been done. 

 But he does confirm it in that interview alone That's what he's saying when he says that."Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart". No matter what excuse on numerous threads you want to try and argue this you have yet to say why this theory does NOT work. And no calling it a retcon is not what I mean. I mean tell me why with canon fact from these games why it cannot work or be true. And yes it's just a theory I posted but until it's confirmed I think it at least makes sense. Considering what a heart is made of in KH.

 

Why do you think in Days when Ven's heart was dormant( inside Roxas) Roxas didn't have his memories? Memories are key components in hearts.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Flaming Lea

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

But he does confirm it in that interview alone That's what he's saying when he says that. And yes it's just a theory I posted but until it's confirmed I think it at least makes sense. Considering what a heart is made of in KH this makes sense to say 'merging'Why do you think when Ven's heart was dormant Roxas didn't have his memories?

Exactly Xemnas explains pretty clearly the relationship between the two. The memory when parsed with a heart are key components of one's individual identity. The two paired allow each individual to experience their own unique emotions. Without a heart memories are useless and vice versa.

Edited August 10, 2015 by RobbyRobRob the Wise

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Although this is a decent theory. i would very much prefer it be officially confirmed. 

 

Problem is NOmura doens't confirm that memories are the key aspect to creating a heart. Yes, its the one that gives it "form". But from what we've seen, when heartless get destroyed compared to the ball of light. It can be easy to distinuish what he meant.  

Still, the mechanic of growing a heart is still foggy. new experiences, new memories. but new emotions? See the ability to just gorw one is completely different. 

 

Still.....this idea never sat well with me. And although merging hearts seems to be the "easiest" way to answer it. By from what we know so far. Merging hearts hasn't been done. 

 

Exactly Xemnas explains pretty clearly the relationship between the two. The memory when parsed with a heart are key components of one's individual identity. The two paired allow each individual to experience their own unique emotions. Without a heart memories are useless and vice versa.

 Thank you for more in game explanation backing this up. And no one cares if it's from DDD bc it's still canon fact from in game info.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Flaming Lea

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

Thank you for more in game explanation backing this up. And no one cares if it's from DDD bc it's still canon fact from in game info.

No problem this was the entire theme of Chain of Memories. Repliku and Xion were prime example of this as despite being created from the memories others their own the memories they created during their existence allowed them to form their own distinct identities.

[Wyatt Tyson 66]

Although this is a decent theory. i would very much prefer it be officially confirmed. 

 

Problem is NOmura doens't confirm that memories are the key aspect to creating a heart. Yes, its the one that gives it "form". But from what we've seen, when heartless get destroyed compared to the ball of light. It can be easy to distinuish what he meant.  

Still, the mechanic of growing a heart is still foggy. new experiences, new memories. but new emotions? See the ability to just gorw one is completely different. 

 

Still.....this idea never sat well with me. And although merging hearts seems to be the "easiest" way to answer it. By from what we know so far. Merging hearts hasn't been done. 

Um except memories have always been one of the key fundamentals of growing a heart. I mean how else would Roxas, Axel and probably other Nobodies grow a heart. Because of the new memories they experience as Nobodies and the old memories they had as Somebodies. Memories bring forth emotions and emotions bring forth signs of a growing heart. It's all connected as a chain. A Chain Of Memories.

[Ephemera 37]

Um except memories have always been one of the key fundamentals of growing a heart. I mean how else would Roxas, Axel and probably other Nobodies grow a heart. Because of the new memories they experience as Nobodies and the old memories they had as Somebodies. Memories bring forth emotions and emotions bring forth signs of a growing heart. It's all connected as a chain. A Chain Of Memories.

 

NO.....it hasn't always been a key fundamental of "growing" a heart if growing a heart has never been an official thing, at least when it comes to "Nobodies" beings designed to have no hearts or "missing" hearts.

 

Everything else that "grow" a heart, was more in the sense that they've always had a heart of their own. For example: Repliku, Data-Sora. etc. those were beings with their own circumstances outside breaking the equilibrium of the mechanics of the heart/body/soul.

 But he does confirm it in that interview alone That's what he's saying when he says that."Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart". No matter what excuse on numerous threads you want to try and argue this you have yet to say why this theory does NOT work. And no calling it a retcon is not what I mean. I mean tell me why with canon fact from these games why it cannot work or be true. And yes it's just a theory I posted but until it's confirmed I think it at least makes sense. Considering what a heart is made of in KH.

 

Why do you think in Days when Ven's heart was dormant( inside Roxas) Roxas didn't have his memories? Memories are key components in hearts.

 

Nomura explained that a heart itself is that hearts hold no "form". And that memories only help it gain a "form". but that doesn't mean for a second that "Memories form (present tense) hearts".  After all, Nomura gave clear distinction the difference between hearts and memories. 

 

As for your second question, i feel like you're asking the very question that brings the very issue. 

Edited August 11, 2015 by Ephemera

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

NO.....it hasn't always been a key fundamental of "growing" a heart if growing a heart has never been an official thing, at least when it comes to "Nobodies" beings designed to have no hearts or "missing" hearts.Everything else that "grow" a heart, was more in the sense that they've always had a heart of their own. For example: Repliku, Data-Sora. etc. those were beings with their own circumstances outside breaking the equilibrium of the mechanics of the heart/body/soul.

 

Nomura explained that a heart itself is that hearts hold no "form". And that memories only help it gain a "form". but that doesn't mean for a second that "Memories form (present tense) hearts".  After all, Nomura gave clear distinction the difference between hearts and memories. 

 

As for your second question, i feel like you're asking the very question that brings the very issue. 

Actually that's exactly what he said- that memories form hearts which means they are a major component of a heart. You don't even make sense at this point not to mention I love how you ignored all the other points presented to you not just from me but from others. I'm not gonna argue in circles with someone who is ignoring everyones points. It will go nowhere.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

NO.....it hasn't always been a key fundamental of "growing" a heart if growing a heart has never been an official thing, at least when it comes to "Nobodies" beings designed to have no hearts or "missing" hearts.Everything else that "grow" a heart, was more in the sense that they've always had a heart of their own. For example: Repliku, Data-Sora. etc. those were beings with their own circumstances outside breaking the equilibrium of the mechanics of the heart/body/soul. Nomura explained that a heart itself is that hearts hold no "form". And that memories only help it gain a "form". but that doesn't mean for a second that "Memories form (present tense) hearts".  After all, Nomura gave clear distinction the difference between hearts and memories.  As for your second question, i feel like you're asking the very question that brings the very issue.

I think the fact that you're using semantics to validate your argument means this discussion should probably stop. There is literally no logic in what you just said. Memories giving hearts a form means they are a key component to their make up. You literally can't take that any other way.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

Exactly Xemnas explains pretty clearly the relationship between the two. The memory when parsed with a heart are key components of one's individual identity. The two paired allow each individual to experience their own unique emotions. Without a heart memories are useless and vice versa.

I know I'm commenting on the video rather than the post itself but..............this is why I prefer DDD over the other handheld entries despite the stupid stuff at the end of the game and this is one of the many reasons why Xemnas is my favorite KH villain

 

I want more moments like this

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

I know I'm commenting on the video rather than the post itself but..............this is why I prefer DDD over the other handheld entries despite the stupid stuff at the end of the game and this is one of the many reasons why Xemnas is my favorite KH villainI want more moments like this

This is one my favorite scenes in the game and it gives a lot of information. Edited August 11, 2015 by RobbyRobRob the Wise

[Wyatt Tyson 66]

NO.....it hasn't always been a key fundamental of "growing" a heart if growing a heart has never been an official thing, at least when it comes to "Nobodies" beings designed to have no hearts or "missing" hearts.Everything else that "grow" a heart, was more in the sense that they've always had a heart of their own. For example: Repliku, Data-Sora. etc. those were beings with their own circumstances outside breaking the equilibrium of the mechanics of the heart/body/soul.

 

Nomura explained that a heart itself is that hearts hold no "form". And that memories only help it gain a "form". but that doesn't mean for a second that "Memories form (present tense) hearts".  After all, Nomura gave clear distinction the difference between hearts and memories. 

 

As for your second question, i feel like you're asking the very question that brings the very issue. 

Your comment makes absolutely no sense. You're practically contradicting yourself. But as the others said, there's really no point on this conversation continuing so we'll just have to drop it. 

[Ephemera 37]

If you want to know more. i'll gladly respond in PM. but i assure you, i have no contradictions. its just a simple misunderstanding in what i'm actually saying.