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Fates Chance XIII

FF characters shouldnt be cameos.

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I know it's been talked to death about no FF characters in KH3 but I really wanted to talk about why I dont want FF characters to be resigned to just cameo status in KH.

So when I started playing KH games, I had never even heard of FF. I saw all these characters and thought they were original to the KH universe and that the disney worlds were the crossover stuff. I got to know and fell in love with all the FF characters without their back stories, or anything.

Squal was just Leon to me. Cloud, Tifa, Zack, Yuffie, Cid, Aerith all of them belonged to the KH world and story and universe as my first exposure to them. When I learned they were from other games, I went and explored their stories but I couldnt shake that they were still categorized as KH characters in my head first.

I can remember seeing them in KH2 for the first time and being so excited! Fighting along side them, sharing their hope's of restoring Radient Garden, fighting the heartless, going back to visit them more and their being more story it made it feel like they were part of the story. Even if they came from other universes and games this was still their story too. 

They belonged to that world, had a stake in the well being of their world and were friends of Sora, Donald and Goofy and cared about them and their struggles well being and adventures. 

So not seeing them in KH3, even to just pop in and say we're going on an epic journey but we have to go it alone, was really heart breaking. It almost feels like part of the reason Sora and Co didnt go to RG. But I mean, Mickey said that Leon was his friend in KH1 so it would've actually been really cool to see them interact and meet up. And to see them all interact with Riku.

But I dont like them being called cameos because they AREN'T! 

A cameo is seeing Sephiroths black feather float down near Zack in BBS, an NPC with a line or two in the dialogue, something not important to the main plot but a, 'HEY NEAT!' sorta thing. Those characters still belong to the KH universe, they belong in this story and I really hope and pray and wish with all my heart that they dont become cameos. That they stay part of the story. That we get to fight along side them again some day, help them in some endeavor related to their story, or find out more of their story in this universe. I want them to stay. 

Because to me, they will still always be part of the KH world where I loved them most. And I dont want them to just fade away.

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Posted (edited)

This is such a touchy subject that I need to be careful how I phrase my words. I both agree and disagree on the FF characters being in the game.

When it comes to the FF characters, Leon/Squall, Yuffie, Aerith, and Cid are the four that really stand out as the characters that should stick around. I was not expecting them to have a big role in KH3, but it would have been nice to see them call Sora and offer any help they can in helping Mickey and Riku find Aqua or something to keep them relevant. And I think that would be the hardest thing for them.

Staying relevant outside of being FF characters. Ansem the Wise and his crew have basically replaced them because they are far more relevant to the Xehanort saga. And now that the Wayfinder and Seasalt trio are all back, Keyblades blazing, they'll likely be Sora's fighting allies when something big arises.

That's not to say that Leon's crew should be cut from the series, I don't want that. Again, they could have offered help in saving Aqua, or help Ienzo research the replicas or the three hearts in Sora. There were ways to put them in the story, so I don't agree with the argument that they couldn't be put into the game. But their role would certainly be reduced from the previous two, which I'm personally okay with. Just don't get rid of them.

Another thing I keep saying is have Final Fantasy characters as party members in some Disney worlds. They could have put one in Frozen to go along with Marshmellow. Why not have Snow from FFXIII be in Big Hero Six's world trying to join the team as a hero himself? Would have been a great humorous appearance, and he can join Sora along with Baymax as a Hero intern.

The FF characters can work, but I would only want them if they can contribute to the actual story. KH2 gave me two characters that worked really well and worked not so well IMO. Auron was done almost perfectly and next to Leon, Yuffie, Aerith, and Cid I consider him a great example on how to put a FF character into KH and have their backstory gel with the ongoing plot of the world they are in.

Auron worked so well with Hades's underworld storyline. His background was there but it didn't feel forced and gave you just enough to learn about what kind of man he was even if you hadn't played the game, and hadn't played FFX by then. And most of all Auron contributed to the Hercules vs Hades ongoing feud.

But then there are the not so great. Don't know about everyone else but I wasn't the biggest fan on how poorly they put Tifa in KH2. She felt like blatant FF7 advertisement rather then a character. Shocking since the other FF7 characters were done so well. People usually point to Vivi or the Gullwings, but Tifa's the one that comes to mind for me when I think of wasted appearances. So these kinds of cameos I can do without.

I'm also a fatigued with Sephiroth. I did want him to appear in KH3 so we could finish him off with Cloud and Tifa, but I was hoping that would be the end of it, and we'd get a new FF secret boss optional storyline for KH4 and beyond. Because there are so many wonderful FF villains we haven't even touched the surface of yet, so it would get boring to just keep doing Sephiroth over and over again. But they should have at least fully ended that storyline as a optional boss in and give Cloud a proper send off.

So yeah, those are my thoughts on the matter. I think the Final Fantasy characters do have a place in Kingdom Hearts and should be able to appear and help out because they are part of the world too. I support them appearing. But I also acknowledge that the original KH characters are more then enough to carry the series without them now. Because while it would have been nice if they appeared in the game, KH3 really didn't need them storyline wise.

Sorry this is so long lol.

Edited by SweetYetSalty

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Posted (edited)

While I'm sad that we didn't get to see any FF characters aside from the Moogles and Zack, Cloud and Auron at Olympus, I can understand why they weren't given a spotlight due to Nomura's focus on finishing off his characters' stories. That said, I do hope FF becomes prevalent again in the next saga! 

Edited by The Transcendent Key

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I agree 100%, I had never played a FF game so to me these are KH characters. I miss the RG crew and think they should have done something, even if it wasn't major.

They didn't even cameo, really. Just a reference in Olympus. Even a gummiphone message from them, or a little scene with Leon talking to Ienzo about the rebuild of RG, would have gone a long way.

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I've talked to death about this topic so just know that I agree with everything you said. I don't agree that they weren't necessary for KH3, I think only someone who takes this series at absolute surface value would feel that way. The FF characters expand the KH universe and makes it feel "lived in". It gives a sense of a larger setting and gives the nonsensical storyline some weight.

 

The KH original characters that are good are few and far between, and definitely not interesting enough to make me care about a whole mainline game with just them present

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To me it felt weird that when Mickey and Riku went to Radiant Garden, they did not even think to find Leon and the gang. It makes me wonder what happened when Ansems apprentices returned. Leon and co were running things inside Ansems castle. Were they just thrown out once the apprentices returned? Regardless of whether or not they were necessary to the plot, it just seemed like bad writing to me and didn't make much sense. Even though I wanted to see everyone in KH3, I would have been ok with them just mentioning them saying at least "Leon says hi and hopes you're staying out of trouble."

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15 hours ago, JTD95 said:

I really don’t get Nomura’s argument that there were too many other characters to focus on. Just treat the FF characters as if they were Disney characters. We didn’t need to have Elsa, Hercules, or Woody in the game either.

Agree completely, I've been thinking this too.

If they are given a separate story from the main one, it's no different from a Disney story.

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Posted (edited)

I agree that they should have been in there, but I understand the decision to cut them. Nomura wanted to focus on wrapping up the Xehanort saga, and they started running out of disc space. With all their original characters coming back, they had enough of a supporting cast to make the plot work. But without them it only feels like we got half of the game. Hopefully at least sephiroth will be added via dlc. I could easily see him waiting in that one courtyard area with the statue of Zeus.

Edited by Darkfire1408

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16 hours ago, Darkfire1408 said:

 and they started running out of disc space.

Blue Rays are bigger than you think. To the point that most companies don't even remove unused/cut stuff from them because there's so much space in there it's just more convenient to leave it in.

Disc space limitations are in the past, and with day one patches now being the norm the problem doesn't subsist at all.

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First off, I agree with your point about them not being cameos. This series is a cross between Disney and Final Fantasy, not just an RPG involving Disney. 

However, to be honest, I never really cared much about the FF characters in Kingdom Hearts. Not their inclusion itself, mind you, just the characters themselves. Most of them were from entries that I don't really care about (with the exception of FFX), so their inclusion didn't really add much to the experience for me since I had no real connections to the relevant characters. 

Now that being said, I do understand why people were so disappointed with the complete lack of FF characters in KH3 aside from the Moogles. This is the first numbered title to not include them, and I totally get why people were angry about that. But to be honest, I barely even noticed their absence. The only game where I felt that the FF characters'  inclusion felt truly natural was in KH1. In KH2 they felt kind of shoehorned in, almost like during the later stages of the game development Nomura and his team were like, "oh shoot! We forgot the FF characters!" It just didn't feel naural to me. Of course, this is just my opinion, and maybe I'm just crazy. I also remember being annoyed with the inclusion of Cloud and Sephiroth because their presence had absolutely no relevance whatsoever. 

On 4/11/2019 at 4:06 PM, Mkucherina said:

To me it felt weird that when Mickey and Riku went to Radiant Garden, they did not even think to find Leon and the gang. It makes me wonder what happened when Ansems apprentices returned. Leon and co were running things inside Ansems castle. Were they just thrown out once the apprentices returned? Regardless of whether or not they were necessary to the plot, it just seemed like bad writing to me and didn't make much sense. Even though I wanted to see everyone in KH3, I would have been ok with them just mentioning them saying at least "Leon says hi and hopes you're staying out of trouble."

I do kind of have to agree to some extent here. I didn't think about it at the time, but thinking about it now it does seem very unusual. Squall was essentially the defacto leader of RG in Ansem the Wise's absence, so you would think they would have had to speak with him about their mission.

Now, with all this being said, I do hope they keep going with the FF characters in the series, and I hope they go back to being more important in the future. The only thing is that I want a new roster of FF characters from other FF games. Give me Balthier and Fran from XII, or Terra, Locke and Kefka from VI. Or Zidane and Kuja from IX. I get that VII and VIII are the most popular entries, but not everyone likes them. Give us more variety; you've got 15 games to choose from.

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