It's Only Sexist When Men Do It

[Shulk 8,623]

There's the sexism argument of the week. That's one KH13 tradition out of the way.

[RoxSox 3,593]

I'm not even going to bother.

[Tigerruss 576]

*cough*

 

http://jezebel.com/5992479/if-i-admit-that-hating-men-is-a-thing-will-you-stop-turning-it-into-a-self+fulfilling-prophecy

 

If you're inclined to read more than 150 characters, at least.

I find this more related to the thread arguments than the post. And I do agree with a lot of it. I do like the civil rights groups, and I don't think they are the problem.The problem addressed in the video can be best summed up with, people like the underdog, and because of stereotyping, prejudice and whatever else a woman are "weaker".Because of that people are more likely to cheer for a woman harming a man for his wrong doings, than a man harming a woman for her wrong doings.And in both cases if every aspect, except genders, were the same then the judgement should be the same. I'll be happy the day this happens. When everyone is treated equally by the legal system, and maybe public opinion doesn't favor one biological people group.Anyways I think the guy in the video in the OP went a bit overboard. 

 

 

I'm not even going to bother.

Smart move.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Tigerruss

[Cucco 1,907]

I'm sorry I just can't take feminists seriously. They think that women in america get it so hard, when they can do anything men can do if they apply themselves.

 

Edited February 22, 2014 by Shana09

[Tigerruss 576]

I'm sorry I just can't take feminists seriously. They think that women in america get it so hard, when they can do anything men can do if they apply themselves.

Please don't consider all feminists whiners and moaners about the oppression of males. The ones that truly do what they say, and fight for equality, aren't fighting for benefits they are fighting for equality.And probably the women selected for "the talk" were selected because they make "good tv", what ever that is.Edit: ah that video. Well he did refer to them as "radicals" and radical groups often go WAY too far, to the point they are fighting to oppress those who think differently than them.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Shana09

[Cucco 1,907]

Please don't consider all feminists whiners and moaners about the oppression of males. The ones that truly do what they say, and fight for equality, aren't fighting for benefits they are fighting for equality.And probably the women selected for "the talk" were selected because they make "good tv", what ever that is.Edit: ah that video. Well he did refer to them as "radicals" and radical groups often go WAY too far, to the point they are fighting to oppress those who think differently than them.

I don't think complaining about how women get sexualized in media is fighting for equality. 

[Think Pink 1,967]

I don't think complaining about how women get sexualized in media is fighting for equality. 

Absolutely it is! Actually, since you seem to think everything's equal (even though I can't get my dream job simply because I'm female. It's actually illegal.) : 

• we still live in a patriarchy 
• women are still on average paid less than men in nearly every job 
• 1 in 4 women is abused by men 
• woman cannot fight in all parts of the military 
• women can literally be arrested for taking their shirt off or breastfeeding in public 
• rape is justified by the court system and plenty of men get off scott free after brutally raping someone
• a lot of christians will not accept female bishops 
• women can't even go on news websites without scrolling down to the comments and seeing rampant sexism. it's literally EVERYWHERE

and those are just off the top of my head. So I don't even understand your point about "I'm sorry I just can't take feminists seriously. They think that women in america get it so hard, when they can do anything men can do if they apply themselves." 

[Cucco 1,907]

Absolutely it is! Actually, since you seem to think everything's equal (even though I can't get my dream job simply because I'm female. It's actually illegal.) : 

• we still live in a patriarchy 
• women are still on average paid less than men in nearly every job 
• 1 in 4 women is abused by men 
• woman cannot fight in all parts of the military 
• women can literally be arrested for taking their shirt off or breastfeeding in public 
• rape is justified by the court system and plenty of men get off scott free after brutally raping someone
• a lot of christians will not accept female bishops 
• women can't even go on news websites without scrolling down to the comments and seeing rampant sexism. it's literally EVERYWHERE

and those are just off the top of my head. So I don't even understand your point about "I'm sorry I just can't take feminists seriously. They think that women in america get it so hard, when they can do anything men can do if they apply themselves." 

1. explain please

2.This is true, and its a problem. But the fact is women have different behavioral habits than men do because of things like pregnancy and periods and companies don't want to have to deal with that.

3.This may be true, I don't know. But I do know abuse against men doesn't get reported very often at all because no one takes it seriously and thinks its a joke.

4. That is a problem too, but women have different behavioral habits then men do, and I guess the U.S military just doesn't see some of them fit as being in one of the higher up positions.

5.And I would be arrested for having my scrotum out in public.

6.Its not justified, just the fact is the court can only arrest someone who was accused of rape if there was physical evidence. If there wasn't evidence and every woman could falsely accuse a man of rape, it would most definitely get abused.

7. Religion is something that is terrible to all sorts of people, thats why I don't bother with it.

8. Yeah, people without a grain of logic do that. I don't see them as any different from the people who call men pigs and hungry for power. I can't take either of the parties seriously.

 

and to you saying complaining about sexualized women in the media is is fighting for equality is stupid. For one, the women decided to get half naked and pose. Two, human beings are designed to want to have sex. Biologically speaking, the entire purpose of my existence is to find a mate and inject her with my sperm. The sexy ads of women sell products because of the sex appeal, just like many womens magazines sell because of muscular men. Women are designed to want to have sex also. The only way to eliminate sexy advertisements is to eliminate the XX or XY chromosome matchup, and even then if a gender went extinct women would become lesbians or men would become gay and there would still be sexy ads  to sell products.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Death the Kid

[Dracozombie 4,554]

1. explain please

2.This is true, and its a problem. But the fact is women have different behavioral habits than men do because of things like pregnancy and periods and companies don't want to have to deal with that.

3.This may be true, I don't know. But I do know abuse against men doesn't get reported very often at all because no one takes it seriously and thinks its a joke.

4. That is a problem too, but women have different behavioral habits then men do, and I guess the U.S military just doesn't see some of them fit as being in one of the higher up positions.

5.And I would be arrested for having my scrotum out in public.

6.Its not justified, just the fact is the court can only arrest someone who was accused of rape if there was physical evidence. If there wasn't evidence and every woman could falsely accuse a man of rape, it would most definitely get abused.

7. Religion is something that is terrible to all sorts of people, thats why I don't bother with it.

8. Yeah, people without a grain of logic do that. I don't see them as any different from the people who call men pigs and hungry for power. I can't take either of the parties seriously.

 

1. It means societal rules are set up by men and now they've finally screwed themselves over.  For instance, men need to make alimony payments because men were assumed to be the breadwinners while women stayed home to take care of the kids.

2. So men are allowed to exclude women from certain jobs because it's easier to not deal with their biology?  Wow.  Well, I'm sorry for not being infertile/in menopause.  I don't think it's as much a deal breaker as you think.

3. They don't take it seriously and think it's a joke because men are expected to be tough and defend themselves.  Too many men are so wrapped up in concepts of masculinity that they won't seek help for themselves, or if they do, no one takes them seriously.

4. See 2.

5. But you can still go topless.

6. That mindset doesn't do favors to women getting screwed during actual rape cases.

7. I'm not religious but not even I'm gonna touch this one.

8. But there's still double-standards.  If a guy is fat, he gets teased.  If a girl is fat, she gets hated.

[Shulk 8,623]

I'm amazed that this thread's still here, geez.

[Tigerruss 576]

I don't think complaining about how women get sexualized in media is fighting for equality. 

I wasn't complaining about women get sexualized I was saying something completely different. I was talking about media as a whole, especially talk and news shows are sensationalized.

"The talk" was the show the Amazing Atheist was complaining about in the first video linked. And I was saying whether or not they are good doesn't matter, they were picked for making "good tv".

 

And yes, it might not be fair that they are allowed to be on TV and if men were talking about similar things, they probably wouldn't be on TV.  Though that doesn't change the fact that those people were chosen probably because THEY WOULD BE CONTROVERSIAL. Or maybe some other thing that sells on TV. There are differences to what people find entertaining and what they think is good behavior. It might simply be an inequality in entertainment value of the different genders in different events.

And what I'll say about the media, they really only care about what keeps an audience, they don't care for anything else. So, they will cover radicals, not only because they are controversial but also because they often break the law.

 

 

 

Absolutely it is! Actually, since you seem to think everything's equal (even though I can't get my dream job simply because I'm female. It's actually illegal.) : 

Care to share what your dream job is? (Anyways, mine is impossible reguardless of gender)

• we still live in a patriarchy 

  Yes, and in a loose sense we will be living in one as long as we still as a majority only take the male's last name.

• women are still on average paid less than men in nearly every job 

  I personally want business to solely judge worth on merit and not anything else. And I haven't looked at stats on this.

• 1 in 4 women is abused by men 

  That is a domestic violence stat, it doesn't take into account mental abuse only physical. Also, the stat is just how many have experienced domestic violence, not what gender the perpetrator was. Though 85% of reported physical abuse cases are of female victims.

• woman cannot fight in all parts of the military 

  True, but things have been changing.

• women can literally be arrested for taking their shirt off or breastfeeding in public 

  It would be nice to get rid of the stigma around breasts. Especially since breast feeding can be beneficial.

• rape is justified by the court system and plenty of men get off scott free after brutally raping someone

  In my opinion all rape should be punished. Though sometimes it may be hard to prove rape. And no, I am not saying that most of them got off due to lack of proof.

• a lot of christians will not accept female bishops 

  And some Christians don't even have bishops. Though I see the point.

• women can't even go on news websites without scrolling down to the comments and seeing rampant sexism. it's literally EVERYWHERE

  And no one with a brain can scroll down on a news website with out seeing a bunch of comments filled with rampant stupidity.

and those are just off the top of my head. So I don't even understand your point about "I'm sorry I just can't take feminists seriously. They think that women in america get it so hard, when they can do anything men can do if they apply themselves." 

I just felt like stating my thoughts.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Tigerruss

[Caity 3,946]

thats the dictionary definition that isnt used when talking about this situation. you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how oppression works--one group has power (in this case men) that they use to oppress another group who historically does not have as much power. sexism is built off of oppression. you can be discriminatory towards men which isn't ok, but you can't be sexist towards them. either way, it's not the same thing.

 

you didn't even try to understand what im saying. 9000 reports isnt a little but the reason why more action isn't taken is because of what i said before. i said that argument was irrelevant because it's cissexist--not all men have prostates and not all women have breasts. it's exclusionary towards trans and nb people and has nothing to do with the argument at hand. i never said it was fine to have prostate cancer and that it was bad to have breast cancer, please stop putting words in my mouth. 

 

anyway if any of you want to ask me privately about this (w/out being rude please) then you can do that but im not going to add more to this thread. peace out

 

You have a fundamental and skewed understanding of sexism and discrimination because you're basically saying it's okay to do so long as you're female.  Just firetruck treating people equally, if you're part of a majority you're allowed to be pissed over 'cause your ancestors or other people who happen to be of the same group are/were a dick, it's your fault for being born that way and you should accept whatever mistreatment you get.

 

Nice.

[Cucco 1,907]

1. It means societal rules are set up by men and now they've finally screwed themselves over.  For instance, men need to make alimony payments because men were assumed to be the breadwinners while women stayed home to take care of the kids.

2. So men are allowed to exclude women from certain jobs because it's easier to not deal with their biology?  Wow.  Well, I'm sorry for not being infertile/in menopause.  I don't think it's as much a deal breaker as you think.

3. They don't take it seriously and think it's a joke because men are expected to be tough and defend themselves.  Too many men are so wrapped up in concepts of masculinity that they won't seek help for themselves, or if they do, no one takes them seriously.

4. See 2.

5. But you can still go topless.

6. That mindset doesn't do favors to women getting screwed during actual rape cases.

7. I'm not religious but not even I'm gonna touch this one.

8. But there's still double-standards.  If a guy is fat, he gets teased.  If a girl is fat, she gets hated.

2 and 4. I know its a bad thing, but many employers don't want to have to deal with it. If I could stop it I would.

3. The police and jury ignore it even if it is reported

5. I don't have breasts. If it was legal for everyone to be nude in public I'd be up for it.

6. I know, but it wouldn't do favors to men who didn't do anything but got arrested because their spiteful ex-wife or girlfriend got pissed and told the police that he raped her.

8. Have you ever seen videos by obese or morbidly obese men? They get called terrible, terrible names for their eating habits. Its the same for women. I wish I could control it, but I can't. I have a few fat friends who have had to deal with being hated for their way of living for a long time.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Death the Kid

[Think Pink 1,967]

1. explain please

2.This is true, and its a problem. But the fact is women have different behavioral habits than men do because of things like pregnancy and periods and companies don't want to have to deal with that.

3.This may be true, I don't know. But I do know abuse against men doesn't get reported very often at all because no one takes it seriously and thinks its a joke.

4. That is a problem too, but women have different behavioral habits then men do, and I guess the U.S military just doesn't see some of them fit as being in one of the higher up positions.

5.And I would be arrested for having my scrotum out in public.

6.Its not justified, just the fact is the court can only arrest someone who was accused of rape if there was physical evidence. If there wasn't evidence and every woman could falsely accuse a man of rape, it would most definitely get abused.

7. Religion is something that is terrible to all sorts of people, thats why I don't bother with it.

8. Yeah, people without a grain of logic do that. I don't see them as any different from the people who call men pigs and hungry for power. I can't take either of the parties seriously.

 

and to you saying complaining about sexualized women in the media is is fighting for equality is stupid. For one, the women decided to get half naked and pose. Two, human beings are designed to want to have sex. Biologically speaking, the entire purpose of my existence is to find a mate and inject her with my sperm. The sexy ads of women sell products because of the sex appeal, just like many womens magazines sell because of muscular men. Women are designed to want to have sex also. The only way to eliminate sexy advertisements is to eliminate the XX or XY chromosome matchup, and even then if a gender went extinct women would become lesbians or men would become gay and there would still be sexy ads  to sell products.

(Half replying to Tigerruss here too btw) 

1. a patriarchy is where the government is mostly controlled by men instead of an equal or close to equal balance. It can be applied in other ways too, but that's what I mean in context. 

2. I see zero reason why women should be paid less just because they're women. That's sexism at its finest. 

3. I do understand your points about men reporting it less often, and that's true and it's awful, but even with estimates about violence against men included, there is overwhelmingly more against women. 

4. My dream job is to serve in the USMC infantry. And though a bunch of women just passed infantry training at the same standards men were held to, they're STILL not allowed to serve in the infantry. All they'll get is certificates for finishing, and then have to go train for another MOS. They got denied from their dream jobs simply because they are women and that's really messed up. 

5. This is saying sacks of fat only meant to feed babies are the same as someone's genitals. Plus it's also sexist because men can walk around shirtless if they feel like it, but women can't because people have created this stigma about breasts, which results from the patriarchy essentially claiming breasts are for them and sex. 

6. Rape statistically has the same amount of false reports as any other crime. With your opinions, we might as well never report getting robbed or abused or something because dang, there's a chance someone could falsely report it! 

7. It's still wrong tho?? Even if you don't care about religion (which is fine, I'm an atheist as well) there are some people who dream of getting a church position and it's terrible that someone is denied their dream because they happen to have different private parts. 

8. So what?? I was using that as an example, but I'm bombarded by sexism in every aspect of my life. Maybe you don't see it as a man, but I see it all the time, every day and I'm sure if you were attacked like that you'd be angry too. 

 

(to your other point in your most recent post saying "if I could stop it I would": then DO stop it. It's wrong and that's why people are fighting to change it. Women wouldn't even be allowed to vote or do anything if people didn't say, hey, this is screwed up so let's change it.) 

[Dracozombie 4,554]

2 and 4. I know its a bad thing, but many employers don't want to have to deal with it. If I could stop it I would.

3. The police and jury ignore it even if it is reported

5. I don't have breasts. If it was legal for everyone to be nude in public I'd be up for it.

6. I know, but it wouldn't do favors to men who didn't do anything but got arrested because their spiteful ex-wife or girlfriend got pissed and told the police that he raped her.

8. Have you ever seen videos by obese or morbidly obese men? They get called terrible, terrible names for their eating habits. Its the same for women. I wish I could control it, but I can't. I have a few fat friends who have had to deal with being hated for their way of living for a long time.

 

2 and 4.  That's one of the problems feminists are trying to stop.  Whether or not they succeed because the radical ones are too busy being bitchy and outspoken is another thing, but it's an issue.

3. They tend to ignore it precisely because of underlying perceptions of what men should be able to do.  A man is seen as less of a man if they lose, especially to a woman, who is expected to be docile and submissive.

5. But why are breasts this huge deal?  Men can show nipples and it's like meh.  Women do the same, and it's the end of the world--protect the children!  The way I figure it, either make it illegal for everyone to go topless, or make it legal for both.  Although nudity taboos in general might be a different argument altogether.

6. They tend to take the woman's side because women are expected to be the victims, so it's seen as unusual/untrue for them to be the instigators of domestic violence.  It also ties into 3.

8. That's true, but you gotta admit it seems women get hit with it harder.  If that fat man was rich and successful, he wouldn't get half the crap (probably some, but not a lot).  For women it doesn't matter how successful they are.  They're still judged by their suitability as a mating partner, and men don't get hit with that standard nearly as hard as women do.  It's how you get people calling a female judge terrible because she's not attractive along with successful.

[Cucco 1,907]

 

(to your other point in your most recent post saying "if I could stop it I would": then DO stop it. It's wrong and that's why people are fighting to change it. Women wouldn't even be allowed to vote or do anything if people didn't say, hey, this is screwed up so let's change it.) 

It's kind of the reason why I think feminism in the U.S is kind of pointless. To stop it in the U.S I think you would have to stop it globally, and we don't really have much influence at all over the middle-east. Even then women are progressively getting more and more rights here. Men do get attacked for stupid shit though, like once i posted "I wish I didn't have to deal with boners" and I got responses essentially telling me to shut the f*ck up because I don't have to deal with periods. If the roles were reversed it wouldn't be the same.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Death the Kid

[Think Pink 1,967]

It's kind of the reason why I think feminism in the U.S is kind of pointless. To stop it in the U.S I think you would have to stop it globally, and we don't really have much influence at all over the middle-east. Even then women are progressively getting more and more rights here. Men do get attacked for stupid shit though, like once i posted "I wish I didn't have to deal with boners" and I got responses essentially telling me to shut the f*ck up because I don't have to deal with periods. If the roles were reversed it wouldn't be the same.

I don't think it's pointless. We'd achieve much more if it was global, but I think we can still do a lot of good nationally. The reply you got to that comment kinda proves my point though. As a dude, that's probably the worst you'll ever face--a woman saying mean stuff. Women face much worse consequences. They were wrong to say something rude, but tbh it's not the same as getting fired or paid less or denied a job. 

[Cucco 1,907]

I don't think it's pointless. We'd achieve much more if it was global, but I think we can still do a lot of good nationally. The reply you got to that comment kinda proves my point though. As a dude, that's probably the worst you'll ever face--a woman saying mean stuff. Women face much worse consequences. They were wrong to say something rude, but tbh it's not the same as getting fired or paid less or denied a job. 

To the part about women getting fired, I'd only think that would be the case for pregnant women. If it was manual labor, a pregnant women might not be as fit to do heavy lifting or something as a woman that wasn't pregnant. Or if it was in a factory where there was a lot of smog and stuff, it would be harmful to the baby.

[Godot 513]

You have a fundamental and skewed understanding of sexism and discrimination because you're basically saying it's okay to do so long as you're female.  Just firetruck treating people equally, if you're part of a majority you're allowed to be pissed over 'cause your ancestors or other people who happen to be of the same group are/were a dick, it's your fault for being born that way and you should accept whatever mistreatment you get.

 

Nice.

thats actually not what i said at all but ok have fun 

 

and i honestly dont care about people in the majority getting pissed over because i can be killed or denied a job because of my sexuality or gender. the worst that can happen to someone in the majority is that i hurt their feelings because i said that maybe the world doesnt revolve around them sometimes

[Think Pink 1,967]

To the part about women getting fired, I'd only think that would be the case for pregnant women. If it was manual labor, a pregnant women might not be as fit to do heavy lifting or something as a woman that wasn't pregnant. Or if it was in a factory where there was a lot of smog and stuff, it would be harmful to the baby.

Not necessarily though. I'm not sure if you heard about this since I think it was a few years back, but a VA Tech professor failed a bunch of women in his classes because he didn't want women to become engineers. Men who are sexist will make up a ton of reasons to fire women. I would agree with the manual labor or factory thing, but in that case it would be smarter to give the woman maternity leave than to fire her when there's a child on the way, leaving a family in need of lots of money to support a new child strapped for cash. I do see your side of the argument, but I just can't find any way to justify women getting fired for being pregnant. 

[Shera Wizard 2,736]

In my opinion the world would be a better place without women…… and men.

We need more dinosaurs.

 

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