Made this one myself lol

 

 

Made this one myself lol

 

 

Pretty much

Except not really. 

Except not really. 

Cool!

Cool!

At the risk of taking the joke too seriously: how so?

 

 

At the risk of taking the joke too seriously: how so?

 

I'm not starting an argument in the random section lol. PM me^ if you really want to know my thoughts aha . Don't take it too seriously, ironically your thread about voice acting not affecting the validity of the theory gave me the idea for this picture aha

I mean let's be real out of all the characters in the series, the only ones with real development are Lea and Riku. Reincarnation theory has little to do with that fact.

I mean let's be real out of all the characters in the series, the only ones with real development are Lea and Riku. Reincarnation theory has little to do with that fact.

 

Sora has matured and developed as well.

Sora has matured and developed as well.

Sora was one the few characters that didn't really need development. And any development he had flew right off the train tracks during DDD.

Sora was one the few characters that didn't really need development. And any development he had flew right off the train tracks during DDD.

 

True. Also, Donald and Goofy developed. They went from bad to awful AI controls. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Sora was one the few characters that didn't really need development. And any development he had flew right off the train tracks during DDD.

Okay that one I'll bite. How? He grew more in DDD than the entirety of KHII. Not as much as Riku, granted, but I wouldn't say DDD threw everything out the window, either. 

Edited June 29, 20169 yr by Kaweebo

Okay that one I'll bite. How? He grew more in DDD than the entirety of KHII. Not as much as Riku, granted, but I wouldn't say DDD threw everything out the window, either.

Sora went from a competent hero who was bit naive, to bumbling idiot. Everything about Sora's character and everything he stood for was regressed so that Riku could have another redemption arc. DDD is the worst rendition of Sora in the entire series.

Sora went from a competent hero who was bit naive, to bumbling idiot. Everything about Sora's character and everything he stood for was regressed so that Riku could have another redemption arc. DDD is the worst rendition of Sora in the entire series.

Eh, I'd still give that one to KHII. Really, all DDD did was show that Sora is exceptionally gullible and utterly useless without friends to help him. On one of those counts, that's technically been true since the first game. (The 'useless without friends' part) And at least Sora being stupid served a purpose in the story. KHII made Sora stupid for purely comical reasons and honestly, in certain parts, the story was so haphazardly put together with multiple rewrites pretty easily identified even in the game itself, that it's almost like they made Sora as dumb as he was just to cover up writer's error. 

 

Although I will agree, DDD didn't do him any favors. At least he finally learned the truth about Nobodies and reacted the way he should have. In that regard, I'd say he gained a teeny bit more maturity. KHII Sora just seemed stunted, tbh. 

 

Can you believe this is a Random thread?

Edited June 29, 20169 yr by Kaweebo

Eh, I'd still give that one to KHII. Really, all DDD did was show that Sora is exceptionally gullible and utterly useless without friends to help him. On one of those counts, that's technically been true since the first game. (The 'useless without friends' part) And at least Sora being stupid served a purpose in the story. KHII made Sora stupid for purely comical reasons and honestly, in certain parts, the story was so haphazardly put together with multiple rewrites pretty easily identified even in the game itself, that it's almost like they made Sora as dumb as he was just to cover up writer's error.  Although I will agree, DDD didn't do him any favors. At least he finally learned the truth about Nobodies and reacted the way he should have. In that regard, I'd say he gained a teeny bit more maturity. KHII Sora just seemed stunted, tbh.  Can you believe this is a Random thread?

Sora wasn't useless without his friends though. As I recall he was regularly bailing out Riku. And at least in Kingdom Hearts II, Sora's examples of naivety made sense contextually. In DDD Sora is outright stupid for the sake of making Riku look smarter, a characterization that was not prevalent throughout the rest of the series.Also just because it's random doesn't mean there is discussable elements, the op kind of invites it with his statement, even if it's a joke lol.

Pretty much. The reincarnation theory would just be taking the same character and placing them in a different time period. Which is dumb and unoriginal because it's been done many times with other media. Dragon Ball Super, Fairy Tail, Back to the Future, Steins;Gate to name a few. Hell, even KINGDOM HEARTS itself has already done it. Plus the whole premise of the Reincarnation Theory is dumb because it's not even reincarnation. The Reincarnation Theory takes characters already established and places them in the past. Whereas actual reincarnation is is when a soul, after death, is born into another form, for example, I could die, then be reincarnated as a bird. That's not what this theory is. But anyway, the voice actors being different has all but debunked this theory so yeah. Fun times. Not trying to start a war with anyone. I'm... 

 

Edited June 29, 20169 yr by AzureAce

Sora wasn't useless without his friends though. As I recall he was regularly bailing out Riku. And at least in Kingdom Hearts II, Sora's examples of naivety made sense contextually. In DDD Sora is outright stupid for the sake of making Riku look smarter, a characterization that was not prevalent throughout the rest of the series.Also just because it's random doesn't mean there is discussable elements, the op kind of invites it with his statement, even if it's a joke lol.

Huh? When? Was there ever an instance in the first game where Sora saved Riku, aside from indirectly doing so by defeating Ansem and freeing his body? And even then, throughout 90% of the game, he had Donald and Goofy backing him up. Not to mention, the help of his friends from far away in the form of Summon gems. Even Sora's powers when he syncs up with the Dream Eaters is using their powers instead of his own, whereas Riku combined powers to make himself stronger. Sora is nothing without his friends, that's kind of his motto. 'My friends are my power!' and all that.

 

There's naivety and then there's stupidity. Forgetting to mention that you're looking for your friends throughout the majority of the worlds and then, out of nowhere, making it incredibly urgent to find your friends...to the point of mindlessly bashing on a computer in frustration is dumb. 

 

In DDD, he's dumb, yes, but I don't think it was to make Riku look smarter. It was to hammer into the players' head what's going on so that they don't forget, which is a little insulting to the audience and yet...well, it's usually the audience that complains KH is so 'convoluted' so I can't really blame the devs for wanting to make damn sure they know what they're getting into. I dunno, the more I think about it, he's pretty dumb in both games. I call this a draw. KH1 is superior, Sora-wise, as always. 

Edited June 29, 20169 yr by Kaweebo

I mean let's be real out of all the characters in the series, the only ones with real development are Lea and Riku. Reincarnation theory has little to do with that fact.

 

 

Tbh there are many characters (Ven, Terra, Aqua, Eraqus, Xion, ...) who hadn't a chance to develop like Lea or Riku (and Roxas!), mostly because they are present in just one game.

 

The ones who got enough chance for character development are Sora, Kairi, Namine, Ansem the Wise and Mickey but they have been hardly developed or there was an unsuccessful approach. They will hopefully shine in KH3.

Made this one myself lol

 

 

You're preaching to the choir.

OH MY GOSH HAHAHA, i've been sitting here BORED for so long like "Why doesn't this controversial thread have many replies?" Forgot to click follow

 

True. Also, Donald and Goofy developed. They went from bad to awful AI controls. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Dolan and Gooby beat the Guardian with their asses in DDD! That's development right there!

 

I mean let's be real out of all the characters in the series, the only ones with real development are Lea and Riku. Reincarnation theory has little to do with that fact.

Regardless, the theory throws uniqueness out of the window.

 

Huh? When? Was there ever an instance in the first game where Sora saved Riku, aside from indirectly doing so by defeating Ansem and freeing his body? And even then, throughout 90% of the game, he had Donald and Goofy backing him up. Not to mention, the help of his friends from far away in the form of Summon gems. Even Sora's powers when he syncs up with the Dream Eaters is using their powers instead of his own, whereas Riku combined powers to make himself stronger. Sora is nothing without his friends, that's kind of his motto. 'My friends are my power!' and all that.

 

There's naivety and then there's stupidity. Forgetting to mention that you're looking for your friends throughout the majority of the worlds and then, out of nowhere, making it incredibly urgent to find your friends...to the point of mindlessly bashing on a computer in frustration is dumb. 

 

In DDD, he's dumb, yes, but I don't think it was to make Riku look smarter. It was to hammer into the players' head what's going on so that they don't forget, which is a little insulting to the audience and yet...well, it's usually the audience that complains KH is so 'convoluted' so I can't really blame the devs for wanting to make damn sure they know what they're getting into. I dunno, the more I think about it, he's pretty dumb in both games. I call this a draw. KH1 is superior, Sora-wise, as always. 

(Red bit) It's not a complaint, it's nearly a fact at this point., when the fanbase have to make giant theories and scour through ultimanias and old interviews for key plot points, the story has not been explained well enough.

 

 

Sora went from a competent hero who was bit naive, to bumbling idiot. Everything about Sora's character and everything he stood for was regressed so that Riku could have another redemption arc. DDD is the worst rendition of Sora in the entire series.

Agreed^ but I think this was intentional for DDD, regardless it was a stupid idea.

You're preaching to the choir.

Teehee

Edited June 29, 20169 yr by Shinobi Palace

 

(Red bit) It's not a complaint, it's nearly a fact at this point., when the fanbase have to make giant theories and scour through ultimanias and old interviews for key plot points, the story has not been explained well enough.

 

Not really. The plot of KH is pretty straightforward, at least until you get to DDD. Sure, there's niggling details that would be completely unknown unless you read interviews and ultimanias (I'm not even defending that practice, it sucks pretty bad) like what the hell the memory pods in Castle Oblivion were originally created for, but none of it is the main plot. What people complain about is the main plot not making sense and most of the people who do that are the ones who also think only playing KH1 and KH2 is enough to understand it.

 

Really, it's when you throw time travel into the mix that it starts getting a little too wibbly-wobbly, at least in my opinion. However, almost everything before that is laid out before you in each game to grasp. Questions like 'Why did Riku inherit a Keyblade?', 'Who is the real Ansem?', 'Who is the real Xehanort?' are all definitively laid out in the games that explain that stuff, which is usually what I call the 'main four'. KH1-KH2-BBS-DDD. 

Edited June 29, 20169 yr by Kaweebo

Personally, I'm completely fine with parallels (and we all know Nomura adores his parallels) but I'd rather... the entirety of the characters weren't rehashed purely for the sake of some bs clever plotline..................................................................................

I won't discredit connection by any means but I would not particularly fancy downright reincarnation. There's already a bunch of spiritual ties between characters and I think we've had our fill as a collective fandom already. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Pretty much. The reincarnation theory would just be taking the same character and placing them in a different time period. Which is dumb and unoriginal because it's been done many times with other media. Dragon Ball Super, Fairy Tail, Back to the Future, Steins;Gate to name a few. Hell, even KINGDOM HEARTS itself has already done it. Plus the whole premise of the Reincarnation Theory is dumb because it's not even reincarnation. The Reincarnation Theory takes characters already established and places them in the past. Whereas actual reincarnation is is when a soul, after death, is born into another form, for example, I could die, then be reincarnated as a bird. That's not what this theory is. But anyway, the voice actors being different has all but debunked this theory so yeah. Fun times. Not trying to start a war with anyone. I'm... 

 

Actually, it's not really putting the current characters in the past, it's saying that the characters as we know them are not their first incarnations chronologically, which has been done already in the sereis with AnsemSoD/Xehanort just in a different way. Like you said, in reincarnation, the soul leaves the body upon death and is reborn into a new body, In KH it would be the same only with the heart replacing the soul and the body always being human (think Avatar TLA/LOK)

Edited June 29, 20169 yr by Isamu_Kuno

Not really. The plot of KH is pretty straightforward, at least until you get to DDD. Sure, there's niggling details that would be completely unknown unless you read interviews and ultimanias (I'm not even defending that practice, it sucks pretty bad) like what the hell the memory pods in Castle Oblivion were originally created for, but none of it is the main plot. What people complain about is the main plot not making sense and most of the people who do that are the ones who also think only playing KH1 and KH2 is enough to understand it.

 

Really, it's when you throw time travel into the mix that it starts getting a little too wibbly-wobbly, at least in my opinion. However, almost everything before that is laid out before you in each game to grasp.  

I disagree (red bit), a lot of real fans on here still don't think the plot makes much sense despite playing all the games. I do agree that the series wasn't too complex before DDD, but it was still convoluted before that, but DDD made everything much worse. Regardless. the plot is still very messy in my opinion. Not just in the sense that some of it is very complex, but also because of certain bad writing decisions, not all of it is bad, but some things I dislike.

 

I don't think that Terra's character was fleshed out enough, he could have been a fan favourite but he was written as a poor man's Anakin Skywalker.

 

Ventus in my opinion is probably one of the worst video game characters, ever. He's a moany, incompetent Mary Sue with no development other than "My friends are my power!" All he does is cry, and he has literally NO REASON to be upset. There is no logical justification behind his sadness. The whole

"His friendship group was breaking apart"

 

Is just........................... not very a good reason for him to be so upset.

 

Oh and I also hate the fact that that quote "My friends are my power!" defined Sora's character and made him unique, then it turns out Ventus invented that phrase which basically ruined Sora's uniqueness imo.

 

 

There's way more but this is the random section lol, no more

 

Personally, I'm completely fine with parallels (and we all know Nomura adores his parallels) but I'd rather... the entirety of the characters weren't rehashed purely for the sake of some bs clever plotline..................................................................................

I won't discredit connection by any means but I would not particularly fancy downright reincarnation. There's already a bunch of spiritual ties between characters and I think we've had our fill as a collective fandom already. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I agree, parallels are fine, but copy and pasting characters in terms of looks and personality is a big no for me.

 

 

I agree, parallels are fine, but copy and pasting characters in terms of looks and personality is a big no for me.

Fair enough. I will fight you on Ventus though (who if I remember correctly you do not have positive opinions on). He looks exactly like Roxas but his damn personality is great B) //*finger guns* (This is mainly tongue in cheek you're free to your own opinions of course But still Ventus is the shit)

Edited June 29, 20169 yr by Shimmy