DISCLAIMER:This thread reflects only the opinion of it's own writer,It's not an objective critique on what you should like or dislike so if you saw me criticising something that you happened to like I hope you don't feel offended and I hope you keep on enjoying what you like regardless of what I say.And most important of all I hope we keep a decent level of respect toward each other regardless of disagreements

 

  

 

 

Oh look,I get to talk positively about Kingdom Hearts for a change!Ain't that sweet ?

 

 

Contrary to popular(or unpopular belief) that I've garnered around me lately here,I don't hate the Kingdom Hearts series,I really don't.

 

Most of the criticisms or sometimes confused questions I had about a thing or two really comes out of a love and long investment I had with the series that lasted an entire decade before I fell out of it.And one of the reasons is that,for me nothing captures the magic,awe and sense of adventure that the original KH trilogy of 1,Chain of Memories(yes even the heavily flawed CoM) and 2 had and nailed those aspects almost perfectly

 

I'll start with KH1,go through CoM and then end up with 2

 

 

I got KH1 Final Mix on Ps2 in 2006 from my late cousin(who later died in 2010 from anemia,Rest in Peace) and it was the second KH game I played after KH2 and I was literally blown away while playing it.I might be one of the few who like the platforming segments of KH1 and while sure I realize they're not Mario level of platforming it still gave that sense of exploration and adventure especially in worlds like Agrabah,Deep Jungle and Hallow Bastion.While sure the worlds don't cover everything from their respective Disney movies and the lack of NPCs was a bit of a problem but unlike later entries it didn't detract much here cuz the worlds felt immersive enough thanks to the platforming aspect and how they're integrated into the story....which reminds me.Almost every world in the game(save for a couple of exceptions) felt more than just abridged versions of their respective movies.They were integrated into the plot as part of Sora's journey to seal the keyholes and learn what it means to be a keyblade master.The alliance of Disney villains was one of my absolute favorite parts of the game as they sought more than just conquering their own worlds but also they searched for the keyholes,captured the seven princesses in order to find the path to Kingdom Hearts and open the door to Darkness

 

 

This scene right here is one of my favorite moments in the entire series and I still get goosebumps every time I see it.

I can go on and on and on about how much I love this game and despite my few gripes with it with how summons are useless and the janky camera(which was partially fixed in KH 1.5),I still think KH1 is a masterpiece and to this day I still it perfectly encapsulate the magic that the KH series had and how effective it's story telling is despite it's simplicity.

 

Moving on to my least favorite of the three,Chain of memories

 

 

I won't spend much time on this one but I'll say that,despite the plethora of issues I have with this game in terms of storytelling and dialogue and some gameplay issues that wasn't noticable until the Re:Chain of Memories remake,I will say that I don't hate this game as for the most part it built on the foundation that KH 1 started and there are some story elements that I geniunely like.I liked Marluxia as a villain and CoM is the start of a significant character development that Riku would get as the series move on

 

The card battle system is fun enough but it's clearly built for a handheld experience in mind as playing the console remake unmask the issues of transitioning the game from portable to console but overall,I can let CoM pass and I did enjoy the game for the most part

 

And finally, one of my top two favorite game in the entire series and one of my favorite games of all time:Kingdom Hearts 2.

 

 

I cannot tell you how many times I replayed this game from the day I got it up to now especially on the Final Mix version which I managed to import back then way before KH 2.5 was even a thing.I love Kingdom Hearts 2 so much

 

Sure I recognize the issues with the game's writing at times as it started some trends that would spiral out of control in later entries in the series like having most Disney worlds be just abridged versions of their own movies without much integration to the overall plot(except in some second visits),and  especially with Xehanort and Organization XIII(I get that we saw them first in CoM but we wouldn't get a full grasp on them until KH2 and even then that wasn't the full grasp ) but it never offended me here as much as it did in later entries and for the most part the story was still very good and it still gave me that magical feeling that KH1 had even if in a lesser extent

 

But my favorite thing about KH2 is the combat system and how versatile and and experimental it was.Combos were introduced,magic spells were tremendously improved,summons now actually have some use and best of all,the drive forms.My god the drive forms are a thing of beauty and using them in battles was always fun despite being occasionally punished for abusing them by anti-form.

But the best thing about all of what I mentioned above is:All the options I mentioned are viable and fun to use as a lot of situations in the game encourages you to experiment with your options: Do you go with physical combos,or try casting spells on  your enemy,or maybe you might use a summon like Genie or Peter Pan,or maybe you decide to pop up one of the 6 drive forms you obtain throughout the game to demolish your enemies?All of them are viable options to consider and each of them are fun to use even against superbosses like Lingering Will,Sephiroth or the Data rematches with Organization XIII the game most of the time rewards you for being creative with your approach as long as your timing is right.Something that,in my opinion,has been sorely missing in Birth by Sleep's command system but that's a topic for another day

 

It's really hard for me to decide whether KH 1 or KH2 is my favorite but what matters really in the end is:For me they represent everything I loved about Kingdom Hearts in terms of story,character interactions,gameplay and soundtrack that were magnificently blended together to make a perfect package that's hard to be topped by anything in the series that came after it

 

The original Kingdom Hearts trilogy for me,and I'm gonna repeat myself here,represent everything I adored about the series.And they also represent,sadly,everything that the series has lost in later entries in my opinion.That sense of awe,magic,adventure and relatability that I felt with those are just not present in the handheld games and it's fine if you disagree with me it's just that's how I'm feeling about the series after 2

 

Even with all the nonsense that the likes of Birth by Sleep,Dream Drop Distance and Unchained X introduced.I still hope that Kingdom Hearts 3 would be able to capture the same magical feeling the original KH trilogy,especially KH1,had along with fixing the issues I had with the series for a long time

Well, this was a well thought piece on your part, Smash!  Very respectable, and on point!

 

Personally, I love the Xehanort Saga as a whole, because over the past fourteen years, Nomura has built a universe filled with intrigue, tragedy, perseverance, and the classic conflict between light and darkness!  Playing through the whole series feels like I'm watching a riveting anime, and I've loved the ride so far! I'm more than psyched up for Kingdom Hearts III, and I love everything that has led up to this moment!

 

But that being said, though, I do understand there are people that like the first three games in general!  You wrote your piece well, and yep, the Disney villains scheming together was definitely a highlight of the first KH, and the mere fact that we were seeing Final Fantasy and Disney characters merging in one game for the first time was also a great factor in the enjoyment of this game!

 

Chain Of Memories is spectacular, and pretty darn dark!  I love Marluxia, he's one of my favorite villains in the series!  He's such a badass! :')  And well, I love the whole theme of losing your memories and the cost of trying to get them back!  And also, the start of Riku's journey to redemption was great as well!  Overall, a great game!

 

And well, Kingdom Hearts II...my first KH game, and one of my favorite games in the series!!!  Ah yes, this one's definitely a legendary title among the franchise! And rightfully so!  I loved everything about this game!

 

But yeah, the KH franchise in general is spectacular to me! :')

very nice. i agree completely. the first three KH games form a great trilogy because they all feel directly connected to one another. it feels like we've been on one continuous journey for those games and the ending of KH2 perfectly brings things to a close in so many ways. 

 

the new games don't provide similar feelings because it seems as though their sole purpose is to add on to the story so that KH3 has a reason to exist. while that isn't the worst reason for making a game, Nomura sure went about it in the worst way possible. multiple new games across multiple game systems, each with varying degrees of relevance. some seemed to be very important to the story while others seemed to be completely pointless minus the one or two plot points brought up in the last 15 minutes of the game. 

 

i've said it before, but Nomura could have easily set up KH3 if he had handled BBS's story better. BBS could have served the purpose of giving Apprentice Xehanort an origin story and establishing his goals and motivations. TAV could have met their ends due to incompetence or whatever and then KH3 would have Apprentice Xehanort as the main antagonist (now reformed and whole again thanks to Sora and co. destroying his Heartless and Nobody) and he's ready to continue on with his plans to summon the true Kingdom Hearts or whatever. 

 

granted, the only reason i could come up with this now is because of the story we have so far. it's easy to look at the series right now and figure out what could have been done better, but honestly Nomura could have...oh i don't know...tried to plan things out better? one game a year is generous and all, but if it's going to hurt the series then please Nomura just drop it. take some time to plan things ahead. don't say one thing in one game and then go against that in the next game. 

 

one can only wonder how he'll handle the next saga. 

 

(i can't believe we're doing "sagas" now, btw)

Chain of Memories is personally one of my favorite games of the series because of the character interactions and Sora's character development in the game. It is a difficult game though and I understand why people have gripes with it

very nice. i agree completely. the first three KH games form a great trilogy because they all feel directly connected to one another. it feels like we've been on one continuous journey for those games and the ending of KH2 perfectly brings things to a close in so many ways. 

 

the new games don't provide similar feelings because it seems as though their sole purpose is to add on to the story so that KH3 has a reason to exist. while that isn't the worst reason for making a game, Nomura sure went about it in the worst way possible. multiple new games across multiple game systems, each with varying degrees of relevance. some seemed to be very important to the story while others seemed to be completely pointless minus the one or two plot points brought up in the last 15 minutes of the game. 

 

i've said it before, but Nomura could have easily set up KH3 if he had handled BBS's story better. BBS could have served the purpose of giving Apprentice Xehanort an origin story and establishing his goals and motivations. TAV could have met their ends due to incompetence or whatever and then KH3 would have Apprentice Xehanort as the main antagonist (now reformed and whole again thanks to Sora and co. destroying his Heartless and Nobody) and he's ready to continue on with his plans to summon the true Kingdom Hearts or whatever. 

 

granted, the only reason i could come up with this now is because of the story we have so far. it's easy to look at the series right now and figure out what could have been done better, but honestly Nomura could have...oh i don't know...tried to plan things out better? one game a year is generous and all, but if it's going to hurt the series then please Nomura just drop it. take some time to plan things ahead. don't say one thing in one game and then go against that in the next game. 

 

one can only wonder how he'll handle the next saga. 

 

(i can't believe we're doing "sagas" now, btw)

Agreed

 

Things could've gone much smoother than what we have now and while I don't claim to be a director but I can at least come out with multiple ways of how this could've written better without all the detours Nomura took

 

And sure someone will argue that all of this was intended from day 1 I'll argue otherwise

 

Most of what was introduced especially with BBS and beyond feels like it was added on the spot whenever Nomura felt like he was backed into a corner(A.K.A everything around Organization XIII)

 

And even then,not all originally intended ideas were good,the Star Wars prequels for example,were part of Lucas's intended vision for the franchise and we know how much of a mess the prequels were

 

Not everything needed an explanation cuz leaving things to the player's interpretations can be effective, and even the stuff that needed explanation could've been explained much better without contrived bullshit like Xehanort's Time traveling shenanigans 

 

My hope is that maybe KH3 might pull an Episode VII:The Force Awakens and fix the series the same way episode VII fixed Star Wars

Edited July 24, 20169 yr by Smash Mega Koopa

I kind of agree with you on this, there was some real magic about those first 3 games. Story-wise they've kind of done a decent job with the later games, with various hits or misses in each, but gameplay-wise nothing comes close. 

 

With that being said, I really feel like 3 will come out on top. The handheld games felt like they had much less effort put into them, but 3 being a big console title important to square, I don't think we'll have as many cut corners as before. The combat holds a lot of promise already from what we've seen in the latest footage and 0.2, and the platforming already looks better than most other titles in the series. Even the story I feel will find it's place. It certainly helps that we're at the end of the story, and we've got Donald and Goofy back along for the ride. Nothing is set in stone of course, but I think it is on the path to greatness.

As Headphone Jack said, I feel like the reason the first three games of KH form such a magical trilogy is because they form a full story on their own. You could basically play KH1, COM and KH2 and you'd have a fully completed story. With the other games, one thing that's missing is a satisfying conclusion. BBS, Days and DDD are basically all games waiting to be completed by KH3. I guess we all feel differently about the games...For me, KH COM is not giving me the "magical and awe" vibes. Even though character development in the game is great and I like the dark tone, I just feel like I'm walking through barren rooms, which for me is something that removes the "immersion" aspect of the game. As for the world visits feeling like rehashes of the movies, you're completely right. It's why I think KH1 has such a great story...the mystery was slowly unfolding through each world while in KH2 it was like "Mystery presented in the beginning--->Visits to countless worlds for no reason--->Mystery unfolds in second half of the game". But I feel like they've tried getting back to the KH1 storytelling with DDD, they were really hinting at the big ending throughout the game...during each of the worlds visits. The only problem with DDD is that the villains (even though they appeared in each world and were slowly revealing their plan) were not connected to each world's story. Anyway, I'm still liking the series and I feel like the magic is still here despite the series' flaws. I feel like KH3 will redeem the series for you.

 

BTW, you said something about the soundtrack in KH1 and 2 being perfect...I don't think you were implying that it got bad afterwards but, every KH game has awesome music imo I especially like KH3D's soundtrack

Edited July 24, 20169 yr by PrinceNoctis

Agreed

 

Things could've gone much smoother than what we have now and while I don't claim to be a director but I can at least come out with multiple ways of how this could've written better without all the detours Nomura took

 

And sure someone will argue that all of this was intended from day 1 I'll argue otherwise

 

Most of what was introduced especially with BBS and beyond feels like it was added on the spot whenever Nomura felt like he was backed into a corner(A.K.A everything around Organization XIII)

 

And even then,not all originally intended ideas were good,the Star Wars prequels for example,were part of Lucas's intended vision for the franchise and we know how much of a mess the prequels were

 

Not everything needed an explanation cuz leaving things to the player's interpretations can be effective, and even the stuff that needed explanation could've been explained much better without contrived bullshit like Xehanort's Time traveling shenanigans 

 

My hope is that maybe KH3 might pull an Episode VII:The Force Awakens and fix the series the same way episode VII fixed Star Wars

i'd really like to hope that KH3 can deliver an experience like KH1 and 2 but it feels as though Nomura has damned it before it's even come out. he's put so much weight on it's shoulders thanks to the previous games that there doesn't seem to be much of an original story for it to tell.

 

it'll definitely be interesting to examine the three numbered entries and see how they handled their stories once KH3 has been out for a while.

 

KH1 obviously established many of the common elements of the series and kept things simple, KH2 upped the ante by branching off into it's own story with original villains while still feeling like a natural story progression from KH1, thanks in part to CoM (imo).

 

with KH3, however, it seems like we know the entire story from the get-go because we've had so many games building up to it. there's very little breathing room for what could happen in the story and i think that's what is really concerning me. i want to give the game the benefit of the doubt that the story could be good but....right now it seems like i already know what the story is, and the story is banking on me being invested in characters like TAV and....well.....that's no small task for me lol

 

you know what would have been a great way for Nomura to try and recapture the magic of the first game? he could role with Apprentice Xehanort as the villain for KH3 like i mentioned earlier, but he needs 13 Darknesses (or 12, counting Xehanort as 13 i guess). where does he get 12 Darknesses? Does he travel through time to collect 12 versions of himself? No of course not! He gets 12 Disney villains! BAM! Disney is involved once again in the main plot.

 

maybe by now though, the tone of the series has gotten so far removed from the first game that it'd be hard to take the Disney villains seriously again. i'd sure love for them to at least try. 

For me my love for the series just works in a straightforward elevation. With each new entry I loved the series more and more, I don't really dislike any of the titles that came out. Every game has it's place in my heart, and there aren't many franchises I can say that about.

KH1 and KH2 are some of the best games of all time. Although if it wasn't for Final Mix no one would appreciate KH2's combat as much since the vanilla version is a button masher and the exploration aspect is just you walking through endless hallways. KH1 is still the greatest game of all time to me, even looking at it now everything was nearly perfect. The combat was fast paced and provided a challenge, Disney worlds were immersive, the story did a good job of explaining itself, Sora had great development and was genuinely interesting to listen to and the game was so fun. Oh and the soundtrack is perfection.Too bad the series took a 180 after that and Nomura ruined everything with spin offs.

As Headphone Jack said, I feel like the reason the first three games of KH form such a magical trilogy is because they form a full story on their own. You could basically play KH1, COM and KH2 and you'd have a fully completed story. With the other games, one thing that's missing is a satisfying conclusion. BBS, Days and DDD are basically all games waiting to be completed by KH3. I guess we all feel differently about the games...For me, KH COM is not giving me the "magical and awe" vibes. Even though character development in the game is great and I like the dark tone, I just feel like I'm walking through barren rooms, which for me is something that removes the "immersion" aspect of the game. As for the world visits feeling like rehashes of the movies, you're completely right. It's why I think KH1 has such a great story...the mystery was slowly unfolding through each world while in KH2 it was like "Mystery presented in the beginning--->Visits to countless worlds for no reason--->Mystery unfolds in second half of the game". But I feel like they've tried getting back to the KH1 storytelling with DDD, they were really hinting at the big ending throughout the game...during each of the worlds visits. The only problem with DDD is that the villains (even though they appeared in each world and were slowly revealing their plan) were not connected to each world's story. Anyway, I'm still liking the series and I feel like the magic is still here despite the series' flaws. I feel like KH3 will redeem the series for you.

 

BTW, you said something about the soundtrack in KH1 and 2 being perfect...I don't think you were implying that it got bad afterwards but, every KH game has awesome music imo I especially like KH3D's soundtrack

Nah I didn't mean it was bad in later games cuz I still love the soundtrack of BBS and DDD and Yoko Shimomora is doing a great job

 

My problem with the soundtracks of later games is a problem I began to notice throughout all games that Yoko compose and not just KH,is that her tracks starts to blend together and feel a little too similar  to each other

 

She also composes music for the Mario & Luigi RPG series and while she did an amazing job there too,a lot of tracks in the latest two entries: Dream Team and Paper Jam,is that if you listen to some tracks out of context without knowing you'd think they're from Kingdom Hearts or vise versa

 

But really that's a small nitpick to be honest

Sorrow, sad and affecting story from BBS and Days

Platforming worlds and Interactive/ twisted storytelling from KHI

Characters development from KHCOM

Gameplay and Combat from KHII

The feels of the conclusion from 3D

 

are basically what I want to have and feel in KHIII.

Edited July 24, 20169 yr by Master Keeper

Yeah KH2 would have been my least favorite of this trio simply because the story isn't as great as the game play represented. KH1 & CoM actually had a good balance between the two. KH2's story on the other hand was just too FILLERISH.

 

Also the KH2 didn't even "feel" like a sequel to KH1 gameplay-wise. It felt more like it's own distinct KH game (which isn't bad) but not a sequel to KH1.